Cap Hell for Canucks!!! (GREAT NEWS from Daly re: CAP for next year!!)

[Arrow 1983]

2 minutes ago, Provost said:

Etransfer me $150 for my consulting fee and I will explain it.  That is giving you a break as it is normally a 3hr minimum.

I feel sorry for you, that you are unable to say you are wrong, after you have been so petty during these conversations.

[Arrow 1983]

28 minutes ago, Provost said:

I literally charge $150 an hour for consulting on labour relations, you have already received a lot of instruction for free. 
I am under no obligation to keep doing all your work for you unless you want to pay as much as my clients do (I would probably charge you more for the mental anguish).

I have proven you massively uninformed on several occasions in the last few pages, and included citations of why you are wrong.

if you did have a direct line to someone who actually understood this stuff, you wouldn’t even know what to ask them or what they told you if you stumble on the right question.

 

PS.  You couldn’t replace Ferland’s $3.5 LTIR cap hit with Peterson’s $3.775 cap hit even if Petterson was in the minors.  His cap hit exceeds Ferland’s.  You can’t even get the simplest things right.

I am confident that based on how adamantly you have argued with me you have already checked the CBA and have come to realize, the term ACSL does not exist in the NHL CBA. 

[Provost]

18 minutes ago, Arrow 1983 said:

I feel sorry for you, that you are unable to say you are wrong, after you have been so petty during these conversations.

Quite rich from someone who has clearly been proven wrong numerous times just in the last few pages and has simply ignored those times and started arguing different irrelevant things instead.

$150 and I will explain how contract interpretation works.

 

[Arrow 1983]

9 minutes ago, Provost said:

Quite rich from someone who has clearly been proven wrong numerous times just in the last few pages and has simply ignored those times and started arguing different irrelevant things instead.

$150 and I will explain how contract interpretation works.

 

If you are truly in labour relations then we are closely aligned in our job choices, as my position is in contract law, You have asked me to cite my sources as I live in Chilliwack and do work in the lower mainland I can offer you a gesture of common decency and we can meet somewhere as colleagues if you live down this way. I would have no problem letting you in on who my contacts are you never know it could lead to connections and opportunities  in your line of work.

Edited January 27, 2020 by Arrow 1983

[gameburn]

On 1/23/2020 at 6:22 PM, Provost said:

So adding back in the Benn and Baertschi contracts we have, and don’t just disappear without moves being made (and taking away an ELC because Benn is still there)... and adding in the pushed ELC bonuses from THiS year... you are at around $86.5 million.

The December BOG meeting made it sound like the cap will be between $82.5-$83.5, so you are still $3-4 million over the cap.

 

Then add in the fact we definitely can’t afford to push next year’s bonuses into 2021-22 (when we are hit with Petterson and Hughes next contracts) we have to keep a buffer for them under next year’s cap.  Say that is another at least $2 million minimum and quite probably

much more if Juolevi is in our top 6

or Petterson has a good year.

So now we are $5-7 million over what we can spend to the cap next year.

 

That is a full Eriksson, and maybe a tiny bit of buffer for short term injury call ups.

 

The math works no other way than we have to get rid of Eriksson or get rid of both Baertschi and Sutter.  Otherwise we are looking at icing progressively worse rosters for the next two seasons.

Edler (paid the most on the team at the moment!) only has 1 more year, that's big.  In fact,  I suspect he's a possible move at the  upcoming trade deadline; or if not Edler then maybe Tanev.  Eriksson and to a lesser extent Beagle are obvious problems too.   Sutter is probably movable, although if we had to eat some salary it would work against the whole point of dumping their Cap hit. The team became respectable this year (assuming it holds, lol) because of the Miller signing, the rise of Virtanen, the continuing growth and health of Horvat, the steady play of Stecher (arguably more important than Edler)  and the play of lesser lights like Gaudette. The signing of Fantenberg has helped too, as has Myers..  The rise of the team imo has little or nothing to do with Sutter (been gone much of the time), Beagle (his stats say quite a lot) or Eriksson (little effect til lately, and missed most games.)  Motte, Schaller and even Roussel have not bee the difference makers.  It's the young players including Virtanen along with Miller.

Ferland sadly has had the same effect as Eriksson.

 

The timing of the contracts for Pettesson and Hughes suggest there is a little leeway (one more year of dithering? maybe) but the year after? Edler, Beagle, Eriksson had better be well gone by the summer after this one. 

[bad alice french]

15 hours ago, IBatch said:

Call it the QH/Myers effect.  Both have taken the load off special teams time for Edler - as well as constantly leaving Edler and Tanev exposed to the best competition in the world.   Not sure Tanev can play in this league for another three years even with these guys - but no way he could without them.    I'm on the fence.  It's a contract year for him and his history of injuries scares me a little.   If we could find an upgrade for Stetcher internally or externally to further provide relief that would be ideal - same with a contract that would allow Tanev to gradually work his way towards the third pairing (he's no good to us in the infirmary).   Like to see Rafferty get some games down the stretch just to give them a bit of time off and to see what he can do at this level. 

How nice has it been watching our team play with six bona fide NHL defenders on a regular basis? It’s impossible to deny how impactful the depth of that position has been this season. I just don’t want to backpedal in that regards next season. If he walks that position needs to be filled with another NHL defender. As soon as that becomes part of our shopping list in the off-season forget about it. If we’re hoping for someone to step up from the minors to fill Tanevs skates forget about it. No one in our system currently and nobody coming over from the KHL qualify as a 25 minute per game shut down/penalty killing/shot blocking defender. We Will never get better value on a decent hometown discount contract as we would  with Tanev  

[Provost]

8 minutes ago, gameburn said:

Edler (paid the most on the team at the moment!) only has 1 more year, that's big.  In fact,  I suspect he's a possible move at the  upcoming trade deadline; or if not Edler then maybe Tanev.  Eriksson and to a lesser extent Beagle are obvious problems too.   Sutter is probably movable, although if we had to eat some salary it would work against the whole point of dumping their Cap hit. The team became respectable this year (assuming it holds, lol) because of the Miller signing, the rise of Virtanen, the continuing growth and health of Horvat, the steady play of Stecher (arguably more important than Edler)  and the play of lesser lights like Gaudette. The signing of Fantenberg has helped too, as has Myers..  The rise of the team imo has little or nothing to do with Sutter (been gone much of the time), Beagle (his stats say quite a lot) or Eriksson (little effect til lately, and missed most games.)  Motte, Schaller and even Roussel have not bee the difference makers.  It's the young players including Virtanen along with Miller.

Ferland sadly has had the same effect as Eriksson.

 

The timing of the contracts for Pettesson and Hughes suggest there is a little leeway (one more year of dithering? maybe) but the year after? Edler, Beagle, Eriksson had better be well gone by the summer after this one. 

Yes, we “could” manage next year by not re-signing our impending free agents.

 

I don’t see us trading “away” anything at the deadline though as it would be a terrible message to send to a team that is well positioned to make the playoffs.  Intentionally making us worse at this point for the long term benefit just isn’t likely going to happen.  Hopefully there is a move that gets rid of wasted/inefficient cap space though as we need it to pay bonus overages.  Maybe we package up some futures or spare parts to get rid of cap and to get a player with some term left who will help us now 
if we dither this deadline and again in the summer about it, it makes us have to be even more extreme about it next season.

 

Instead of having to get rid of just Eriksson or both Sutter & Baertschi like what would sort us out now, we will have to pay to unload them all before the following 2021-22 season... after having already gotten worse on paper for the 2020-21 season.  If we don’t do that, we will be face with icing a team that Has no depth, or god forbid having to sign Hughes to a bridge few to get us past our crunch... but will cost us dearly in the future when he is better and the cap much higher with the new TV deal.

 

Overpay to get rid of cap now, and reap the rewards immediately.

 

 

[Provost]

16 minutes ago, bad alice french said:

How nice has it been watching our team play with six bona fide NHL defenders on a regular basis? It’s impossible to deny how impactful the depth of that position has been this season. I just don’t want to backpedal in that regards next season. If he walks that position needs to be filled with another NHL defender. As soon as that becomes part of our shopping list in the off-season forget about it. If we’re hoping for someone to step up from the minors to fill Tanevs skates forget about it. No one in our system currently and nobody coming over from the KHL qualify as a 25 minute per game shut down/penalty killing/shot blocking defender. We Will never get better value on a decent hometown discount contract as we would  with Tanev  

Absolutely right... but current state is that we won’t be able to afford him, and if Petterson happens to get into the top 10 in scoring of reaches and schedule B bonus, then we face not being able to afford either Tanev OR Stecher.  We can live with Benn, Rafferty, Juolevi, or Tryamkin As our #6-7 spots... we can’t have them in the top 4 and expect any sort of success.

 

Hence my strong opinion that we should take the pain and use futures to get rid of cap so we can afford to sign who we need, not only to hold the lien... but maybe even take a step forward next season.

[Arrow 1983]

1 minute ago, Provost said:

Absolutely right... but current state is that we won’t be able to afford him, and if Petterson happens to get into the top 10 in scoring of reaches and schedule B bonus, then we face not being able to afford either Tanev OR Stecher.  We can live with Benn, Rafferty, Juolevi, or Tryamkin As our #6-7 spots... we can’t have them in the top 4 and expect any sort of success.

 

Hence my strong opinion that we should take the pain and use futures to get rid of cap so we can afford to sign who we need, not only to hold the lien... but maybe even take a step forward next season.

you are so doom and gloom, you must not believe Benning when he says there are no cap issues.

 

[kloubek]

11 hours ago, Arrow 1983 said:

you are so doom and gloom, you must not believe Benning when he says there are no cap issues.

 

On the surface, it does look like a tight squeeze. Choices may need to be made which team and fans alike may not be keen on.

 

But the whole situation is very dynamic and can change very quickly. What if Raffery or Tyamkin actually could be an option? What if we made a trade or two to reduce the cap? What if we sign Markstrom and he is taken by Seattle? What if we manage to convince LE to hang up the skates or move on? Even just the latter would be enough to make a world of difference to our situation.

 

All many are looking at is the lack of current cap space and the re-signings we hope to accomplish combined with future raises for our young guys. Rest assured that Benning is looking at the whole picture, has more information than us spectators do, and has a plan. Has anyone known Benning to be a bullsh***er? I find him refreshingly open and honest compared to many other GMs so when he says we will be ok, I am inclined to believe him.

Edited January 27, 2020 by kloubek

[gameburn]

On 1/26/2020 at 10:47 PM, Provost said:

Yes, we “could” manage next year by not re-signing our impending free agents.

 

I don’t see us trading “away” anything at the deadline though as it would be a terrible message to send to a team that is well positioned to make the playoffs.  Intentionally making us worse at this point for the long term benefit just isn’t likely going to happen.  Hopefully there is a move that gets rid of wasted/inefficient cap space though as we need it to pay bonus overages.  Maybe we package up some futures or spare parts to get rid of cap and to get a player with some term left who will help us now 
if we dither this deadline and again in the summer about it, it makes us have to be even more extreme about it next season.

 

Instead of having to get rid of just Eriksson or both Sutter & Baertschi like what would sort us out now, we will have to pay to unload them all before the following 2021-22 season... after having already gotten worse on paper for the 2020-21 season.  If we don’t do that, we will be face with icing a team that Has no depth, or god forbid having to sign Hughes to a bridge few to get us past our crunch... but will cost us dearly in the future when he is better and the cap much higher with the new TV deal.

 

Overpay to get rid of cap now, and reap the rewards immediately.

 

 

Brilliant. 

The lesson of the Hawks is that you'd better appreciate -- and lock up -- the key pieces: Kane, Toews, Keith.  

For us obviously it is Hughes, Pettersson and Horvat.  I see Boeser more like a bonus player, depth, or maybe like Hossa who was so good in those Cups.

I think you have really really hit on the big issue: how do you get a nice situation in place for the Core: Hughes (improving quickly), Pettersson (improving slowly, but starting from a higher point) and Horvat, Boeser, Virtanen and maybe Stecher.   I'm not sure goalies are part of a core anymore.  So rapidly evolving and chancy a position.... best to have a drafted guy and a UFA. 

Hughes is an American.  Not sure if it matters.  But bridge deals are not for him, I agree.  The guy is great if he never wins a Norris or does much more than he is doing now. Injury free, uncontentious (doesn't hit people with vehemence/attract attention) a quiet player like Lidstrom but I think maybe better. 

 

I wish we could get someone like Drysdale to complement him, but I guess those picks are past us now.

Edited January 30, 2020 by gameburn
spelling mistake lol

[Provost]

14 hours ago, gameburn said:

Brilliant. 

The lesson of the Hawks is that you'd better appreciate -- and lock up -- the key pieces: Kane, Toews, Keith.  

For us obviously it is Hughes, Pettersson and Horvat.  I see Boeser more like a bonus player, depth, or maybe like Hossa who was so good in those Cups.

I think you have really really hit on the big issue: how do you get a nice situation in place for the Core: Hughes (improving quickly), Pettersson (improving slowly, but starting from a higher point) and Horvat, Boeser, Virtanen and maybe Stecher.   I'm not sure goalies are part of a core anymore.  So rapidly evolving and chancy a position.... best to have a drafted guy and a UFA. 

Hughes is an American.  Not sure if it matters.  But bridge deals are not for him, I agree.  The guy is great if he never wins a Norris or does much more than he is doing now. Injury free, uncontentious (doesn't hit people with vehemence/attract attention) a quiet player like Lindstrom but I think maybe better. 

 

I wish we could get someone like Drysdale to complement him, but I guess those picks are past us now.

Ya, we are on the same page.

If you look a the thing that most Cup winning teams have in common (in the cap era), they have core pieces locked up long term and then start winning when those contracts start being relatively cheap compared with their production.  They aren't paying current market rates for their stars, so can fill out the rest of the roster with decent players.  I think for us there is no question that we should lock up Petterson and Hughes to max term contracts as soon as we are allowed in July.  The cap is going to go up with the new TV deal (though maybe not as much as folks speculate because at the same time the players want to get rid of escrow), and contracts are likely to be a lot more expensive in 2-3 years.

There isn't any real downside risk to it, if Petterson and Hughes didn't pan out for some reason, we aren't winning for many years regardless.

[oldnews]

Quote

Instead of having to get rid of just Eriksson or both Sutter & Baertschi like what would sort us out now, we will have to pay to unload them all before the following 2021-22 season... after having already gotten worse on paper for the 2020-21 season....after having already gotten worse on paper for the 2020-21 season.  If we don’t do that, we will be face with icing a team that Has no depth, or god forbid having to sign Hughes to a bridge few to get us past our crunch...

?

 

Sutter expires in 2021.

Baertschi expires in 2021.

 

Paying to unload them before the 2021/22 season?

 

https://puckpedia.com/team/vancouver-canucks

 

And regardless - Sutter is moveable and would help a number of contenders - easily moveable as an expiring asset/ rental deadline.

 

Edler

Pearson

Sutter

Baertschi

Benn

 

All expire before Quinn Hughes needs to be re-signed.

 

'Facing a team with no dept or god forbid'....?

 

Btw, buying out one year of LE's contract (for the 2021/22 season) would cost 2 years at 2 million cap hit. 

What's to see here?

 

 

 

Edited January 28, 2020 by oldnews

[Provost]

3 hours ago, oldnews said:

And regardless - Sutter is moveable and would help a number of contenders - easily moveable as an expiring asset/ rental deadline.

 

Edler

Pearson

Sutter

Baertschi

Benn

 

All expire before Quinn Hughes needs to be re-signed.

 

'Facing a team with no dept or god forbid'....?

 

Btw, buying out one year of LE's contract (for the 2021/22 season) would cost 2 years at 2 million cap hit. 

What's to see here?

 

 

 

Well to start, according to Capfriendly,  buying out Eriksson’s last year still hits us with a $4 million cap hit for that year and a $1 million cap hit for the year after.  For a grand total savings of $1 million in cap hit, that is what they mean when they say his contract is virtually buyout proof in the way it is structured with bonuses.
 

Secondly, all of those contracts you mention add up to a little over $18 million.

 

Petterson and Hughes are probably going to cost about that much just themselves.  Then we have to fill those other roster spots again.   What we are facing is having to replace all that veteran depth with players who earn close to league minimum.  Even doing that, we STILL have those same roster spots + Petterson & Hughes cost us more than they do now.

Roughly right now those 6 roster spots cost us:

Petterson (925k) + Hughes (915k)+ Edler (6m) + Pearson (3.75m)+ Sutter (4.38m)+ Benn (2m) About  $18 million in total cap.

 

In 2021-22 those same 6 roster spots cost us:

Petterson ($10m) + Hughes ($8m)+Top 4D ($1m)+Top 6F ($1m) + Bottom 6F ($1m) + 3rd pairing D ($1m) about $22 million.  
 

... and that is replacing valuable High performing pieces like Edler and Pearson with bottom end players and/or rookies.  Literally the definition of having no depth.  Try to find a top 4D to replace Edler but only spend $1 million on it.

 

Also, unless we unload cap now, we are probably looking at around $4 million of ELC bonuses pushed from the 2020-21 season into the 2021-22 season.  So add that to the already extra $4 million to cover those 6 above roster spots... Making us $8 million in the hole WHILE already having decimated our depth.

 

All of that equals a very ugly cap situation.

 

Also moving  Sutter and Baertschi before the 2021-22 season means between now and then... as per my continually repeated point and the one you either intentionally ignored or didn’t comprehend, the cap needs to be moved out now to have a trickle down effect and avoid pushed ELC bonuses for the next two seasons.

 

Move  Eriksson or Sutter+Beartschi now and you can save pushing the $1.7-3.7 million in ELC bonuses into 2020-21.

 

Wait until the offseason, or next trade deadline, and you have to pay to move out a lot more to avoid the $4 million or so in ELC bonuses from next season pushing into 2021-22 when we are paying full ticket for Petterson and Hughes and absolutely can’t afford to pay them.

 

... but ya,  nothing to see here.  Even MacKenzie on a radio hit today talked about our cap issues over the next couple seasons and pushed ELC bonuses.  Of course, as per you the media are all terrible and you know better.

 

Edit:

... and that is following this season when we have to pay significant raises for Markstrom and Virtanen, and pay the $1.7-3.7 million in pushed ELC bonuses.... costing us being able to re-sign Tanev and/or Stecher and Leivo and replacing them with cheap players like Juolevi, Rafferty, and MacEwan.

Edited January 29, 2020 by Provost

[oldnews]

Ermagerd!

Quote

we will be face with icing a team that Has no depth, or god forbid having to sign Hughes to a bridge few to get us past our crunch... but will cost us dearly in the future when he is better and the cap much higher with the new TV deal.

 

DimJim has the team in 1st place post all-star-break....and....the usual suspects have...nothing.

 

Er we gotta pay to get rid of 2021 expiring contracts...before 2021/22, when Hughes expirez.

 

All Fail Army can come up with are projected re-runs on the Imagination Station of the future....tune in for exclusive insights into canucksmarmy's doom and gloom crystal-ball.

 

 

I think I'll just enjoy the playoff race.

[Provost]

1 hour ago, oldnews said:

Ermagerd!

 

DimJim has the team in 1st place post all-star-break....and....the usual suspects have...nothing.

 

Er we gotta pay to get rid of 2021 expiring contracts...before 2021/22, when Hughes expirez.

 

All Fail Army can come up with are projected re-runs on the Imagination Station of the future....tune in for exclusive insights into canucksmarmy's doom and gloom crystal-ball.

 

 

I think I'll just enjoy the playoff race.

Haha, you were proven wrong for the infinite time and then resort to personal attacks as always when the facts completely disagree with your imagined and simplistic version of reality.

 

Didn't even have the guts to tag me directly.  One of your sad old tricks by editing out my name but using my quote so I don’t get notified that you quoted me.

 

So the synopsis of this and effectively the same formula for every interaction you insist on having with me:

 

Provost:  We have a real cap crunch coming in the next two seasons that is going to cost us depth unless we make some moves, the sooner the better.  Here are some independently verified facts to back up my assertion.

 

Oldnews:  No we don’t, here are some objectively wrong facts that are easily disproven.

 

Provost:  Actually here are the easily proven correct numbers and facts that illustrate the concern going forward.
 

Oldnews:  Oh ya, well you and your insistence on objective reality are dumb, so I am going to stick my fingers in my ears and make loud sounds so I don’t have to listen to you.

 

Oldnews:  Now I am really mad and frustrated, so I am going to spend hours looking up and reading reams of months old unrelated posts of yours and put ‘confused emojis’ on them to show you how mad and obsessed I am.

 

Don’t worry, I know it is really tough for you, but most of the rest of us can think about more than one thing at the same time.   I, for example, can enjoy our success; think about moves for the looming trade deadline that can keep helping us in the right direction for this season and beyond; and I can also chew gum while doing those things.

 

Edited January 29, 2020 by Provost

[oldnews]

Maybe 'we' can save the assets 'we'd' waste in spending to move two contracts in order to re-sign Hughes - that expire before Hughes does - to get rid of the last year of LE's deal.

 

Or - as I understand the terms of a buyout:

 

Quote

Teams are permitted to buyout a players contract to obtain a reduced salary cap hit over a period of twice the remaining length of the contract. The buyout amount is a function of the players age at the time of the buyout, and are as follows:

• 1/3 of the remaining contract value, if the player is younger than 26 at the time of the buyout
• 2/3 of the remaining contract value, if the player is 26 or older at the time of the buyout

https://www.capfriendly.com/buyout-faq

 

Which, in the case of 1 year x 6 million = would translate into 2/3 of that remaining cap = 4 million = over twice the term = 2 years = in other words, 2 years x 2 million penalty.

I have no idea why their buyout calculator indicates otherwise, and don't really care.

Perhaps that 'calculator' works on a Loui-ngo recrap mechanism.

 

The bizarre ideas of wasting assets to move Sutter (as if you'd need to) and Baertschi expiring contracts?  vis a vis Hughes next deal is a hopelessly premature faux-'crises'.

As is the pretense to project "no depth" - if you've seen anything the past number of years, it's been the teams ability to produce prospects - to draft and develop - a  lineup increasing populated with homegrown players drafted by this administration (Virtanen, Demko - Tryamkin - Boeser, Gaudette, Pettersson, Hughes), and/or acquired (Motte) or signed as a college free agent (Stecher), let alone those remaining/emerging from within their system (drafted = Brisebois. Juolevi, Lockwood, Lind, Gadjovich, DiPietro, Woo, Madden, Utunen, Podkolzin, Hoglander, etc - or signed as free agents (Rafferty, MacEwen, Bailey, Sautner, etc).  I'll continue to take the draft and development system over the assumed future lack of depth 'crisis' - and reject the crap-goggles assessments of players like Sutter, as if the team would entertain wasting assets to move him, a line I find borderline absurd.  Spooner buyout also expires in 2021, cba-cap increases not considered.... exceedlingly premature drama.   Luongo recrap also expires the following year (2021/22 = the real counterpoint to 'overages'...)

 

Let's look at the #proper model of this angst/overage:

Traded their 1st to dump Marleau this summer.

Aside from Matthews, Marner, Nylander...

Their drafting and development through the parallel era that  Benning has been in Vancouver has netted them - Dermott, Timashov, Liljegren, Sandin, Bracco...an underwhelming prospect pool in spite of having #stockpiledallthatpickz

Ceci, Muzzin and Barrie = all expiring.

Horton, Clarkson, overages, and an archipelago of Robidas Islands.

Bottom line - they have not produced the necessary push from within via drafting and developing that they've needed.

I don't think they're particularly comparable situations at this point, moving forward.

 

Edited January 29, 2020 by oldnews

[Provost]

4 hours ago, oldnews said:

Maybe 'we' can save the assets 'we'd' waste in spending to move two contracts in order to re-sign Hughes - that expire before Hughes does - to get rid of the last year of LE's deal.

 

Or - as I understand the terms of a buyout:

 

https://www.capfriendly.com/buyout-faq

 

Which, in the case of 1 year x 6 million = would translate into 2/3 of that remaining cap = 4 million = over twice the term = 2 years = in other words, 2 years x 2 million penalty.

I have no idea why their buyout calculator indicates otherwise, and don't really care.

Perhaps that 'calculator' works on a Loui-ngo recrap mechanism.

... well you could actually read and include the rest of that definition which explains how signing bonuses and cap hits work, and not the real dollars.

 

If you aren’t able to understand and appreciate basic stuff like  the difference between actual dollars and cap hits, maybe brush up on it before calling people out on being wrong.

 

 

Edited January 29, 2020 by Provost

[oldnews]

Expiring UFA contracts in excess of 1 million prior to Quinn Hughes' ELC expires (2021/22):

 

Edler

Tanev

Benn

Markstrom

Sutter

Pearson

Baertschi

Schaller

Leivo

Spooner

 

$31 million

 

 

 

Cap Summary Projection

	2019-2020	2020-2021	2021-2022	2022-2023
Roster Size	25	15	8	4
Standard Player Contracts	47	27	11	6
Upper Limit	$81,500,000	$81,500,000	$81,500,000	$81,500,000
Projected Cap Hit	$82,571,198	$63,499,871	$41,158,206	$21,882,500
Projected Cap Space	$-1,071,198	$18,000,129	$40,341,794	$59,617,500
Current Cap Space	$-1,071,198	$18,000,129	$40,341,794	$59,617,500
Maximum LTIR Pool	$4,333,805	$0	$0	$0
Current Roster Annual Cap Hit	$82,033,205	$63,499,871	$41,158,206	$21,882,500
Carryover Bonus Overages	$0	$0	$0	$0
Potential Bonuses	$4,550,000	$3,700,000	$0	$0
Retained Salary Remaining	3	3	3	3

Edited January 29, 2020 by oldnews

[Provost]

56 minutes ago, oldnews said:

Expiring UFA contracts in excess of 1 million prior to Quinn Hughes' ELC expires (2021/22):

 

Edler

Tanev

Benn

Markstrom

Sutter

Pearson

Baertschi

Schaller

Leivo

Spooner

 

$31 million

 

 

 

Cap Summary Projection

	2019-2020	2020-2021	2021-2022	2022-2023
Roster Size	25	15	8	4
Standard Player Contracts	47	27	11	6
Upper Limit	$81,500,000	$81,500,000	$81,500,000	$81,500,000
Projected Cap Hit	$82,571,198	$63,499,871	$41,158,206	$21,882,500
Projected Cap Space	$-1,071,198	$18,000,129	$40,341,794	$59,617,500
Current Cap Space	$-1,071,198	$18,000,129	$40,341,794	$59,617,500
Maximum LTIR Pool	$4,333,805	$0	$0	$0
Current Roster Annual Cap Hit	$82,033,205	$63,499,871	$41,158,206	$21,882,500
Carryover Bonus Overages	$0	$0	$0	$0
Potential Bonuses	$4,550,000	$3,700,000	$0	$0
Retained Salary Remaining	3	3	3	3

Aside from you just ignoring that fact you have been shown to be completely wrong repeatedly on this thread... and you just pretend it didn't happen and move on to another incorrect argument.  Are you not able to do math?

Go back in the thread and it goes over this and the required/possible re-signings, it goes over what you posted, and not just by me.

8 players signed with 40 million in cap space.... sounds nice, unless you actually spend more than five seconds thinking about it and realize you need to sign 15  players with that money, including 3 top 6 forwards, three top 4 d, and two goalies... as well as almost the entire bottom half of your forward group.

40 million - 5 million for Markstrom - 5 million for Tanev or comparable top 4 D - 3.5 million to re-sign Virtanen - 10 million for Petterson - 8 million for Hughes - 6 million for Edler or a comparable top 4 D.  Give or take a couple million more or less for those signings total... you can argue the exact amounts of each contract, but even imagining the wettest dream hometown discounts, it doesn't give nearly enough leeway to resolve a fraction of the below issue.

That leaves you with $2.5 million cap space left with only 14 players signed, and needing to sign 9 more players for a full roster.  Give or take a couple million this is what it would cost just to re-sign some of your own players, and nothing towards improving the roster or filling other holes.  It is also letting go useful players like Pearson, Stecher, and Leivo who are currently good value contracts outperforming their cap hits. 

Assume a $2 million increase each year in the cap, and the $4 million in pushed ELC bonuses into that year from 2020-21 that we can't afford to pay in that year... and they negate each other, so you get no relief from that at all.  $2 million raises in the cap are also quite possibly not going to happen, coming out of the BOG meetings in December, the GMs sounded pretty bleak and are assuming a relatively flat cap.  The players are going to be hit with huge escrow this year due to the fact most teams are above the midpoint in spending, so are unlikely to vote for an artificial escalator which will just take more money out of their pockets.

If we replace Tanev and Edler with cheap players like Juolevi and Rafferty,  you free up just enough money to almost sign those 9 players to contracts as long as they all average a million dollars each.  Of course, replacing Tanev and Edler with two guys who have zero NHL experience and expect them to be in your top 4 is almost certainly going to make you significantly worse.  Having half your roster not being able to earn more than a million dollars is also literally the definition of having no depth.

So, the original point was that, unless we move out some dead cap space, we are going to lose most of our depth and be worse on paper for the next two years.  We have prospects coming, but not enough to fill all the holes coming... and you can only reasonably filter in 2-3 rookies a year tops if you have even the faintest hopes for success, not 6 rookies a year (even if we had enough ready, which we don't).

It all leads to the need to either move out dead/inefficient cap space... or just live with getting worse by losing all the depth we managed to build up to make up for that dead cap space... and hope that miraculously a team that is spending almost nothing on defence and has literally half their roster at close to league minimum can compete for the playoffs.  What a great plan to waste at least two years of our star player's short careers.

 

Edited January 29, 2020 by Provost