Cap Hell for Canucks!!! (GREAT NEWS from Daly re: CAP for next year!!)

[JM_]

2 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Except he'd still get his bonuses so it's actually:

 

1) $6.67m (albeit $2.67 of that spread over 4 years)

2) retire/mutually terminate - $3m

3) Utica/no kids

4) 50% retention trade to go play on a basement team (if we can find a partner)

the buyout window starts June 15th, so no he'd only get 2.67 mil if the Canucks went that way. Cap wise it stinks year 1 for us but is only 3.6 mil year 2. Not ideal, but at least you have certainty in cap reduction to work with.

 

I just don't see him picking the Utica option. I could see taking the bonus and then not reporting to camp and being terminated tho. 

[Silky mitts]

Seattle is not going to touch that myers contract

[aGENT]

9 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

the buyout window starts June 15th, so no he'd only get 2.67 mil if the Canucks went that way. Cap wise it stinks year 1 for us but is only 3.6 mil year 2. Not ideal, but at least you have certainty in cap reduction to work with.

 

I just don't see him picking the Utica option. I could see taking the bonus and then not reporting to camp and being terminated tho. 

According to @Provost's post last page, he gets the $3m (2020) and $1m (2021) bonus money regardless of buying him out.

[Alflives]

9 minutes ago, Silky mitts said:

Seattle is not going to touch that myers contract

True, but we need Myers and what he brings.  He plays had matchups and PK.

We will keep him for his contract’s term.  

[JM_]

22 minutes ago, aGENT said:

According to @Provost's post last page, he gets the $3m (2020) and $1m (2021) bonus money regardless of buying him out.

I don't think thats correct.

 

Corey Perry had 12 mil of salary over 2 years, and 3 mil on bonus money left on the last year for a total of 15 mil. His buyout cost is 8 mil, 2/3 of 12 mil. Not 2/3 of 15 mil which would have been 10.

 

So no the last year of bonus money is not paid, and it appears from Perry's buyout its only on salary remaining in terms of what he receives. 

 

So Loui personally is looking at getting 2/3 of 4 million, not 3+1 in bonus money too. 

 

Yes our cap hit is still stuck with the AAV, but Aqulini gets to save real money. 

 

https://www.capfriendly.com/players/corey-perry

Edited February 25, 2020 by Jimmy McGill

[Provost]

41 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

but thats not really the point, its about leverage. He's not going to have a spot on the team next year, that is certain. 

 

So, if you're Loui your choices are:

 

1) potentially get bought out, earn 2.67 million. 

2) retire and get 3 million. 

3) risk being sent to Utica and not see your kids for 2 years.

 

Even if the bonus money counts towards our cap, its still 3 mil less and then 0 the next year. 

I am fully on board with sending him to Utica... we should have done it early in the season when he was sitting in the press box.

Three seasons riding the bus would fee like a long time to a guy who has already made a lot of money and apparently owns some restaurants back in Sweden that could fill his time.

That ship may have sailed as he probably wouldn’t believe we would do it anymore, and for sure wouldn’t leave until he actually got demoted after training camp next season... and that is too late to help us with much except not pushing ELC bonuses from next year into 2021-22.

[Provost]

8 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I don't think thats correct.

 

Corey Perry had 12 mil of salary over 2 years, and 3 mil on bonus money left on the last year for a total of 15 mil. His buyout cost is 8 mil, 2/3 of 12 mil. Not 2/3 of 15 mil which would have been 10.

 

So no the last year of bonus money is not paid, and it appears from Perry's buyout its only on salary remaining in terms of what he receives. 

 

So Loui personally is looking at getting 2/3 of 4 million, not 3+1 in bonus money too. 

 

Yes our cap hit is still stuck with the AAV, but Aqulini gets to save real money. 

 

https://www.capfriendly.com/players/corey-perry

Read the FAQ from Capfriendly... it says explicitly that the signing bonuses get paid regardless.  The calculation says excludes them because they get paid.

 

The Perry example is 2/3rds of $12 million plus his $3 million in signing bonus.... not 2/3rd of $15 million.

 

When pundits says signing bonuses make a contract buyout proof... that is what they mean.

Edited February 25, 2020 by Provost

[JM_]

6 minutes ago, Provost said:

Read the FAQ from Capfriendly... it says explicitly that the signing bonuses get paid regardless.  The calculation excludes them because they get paid.

 

When pundits says signing bonuses make a contract buyout proof... that is what they mean.

well then in that case a buyout really is the only option then if we don't want to make things worse and lose picks or prospects, and want to save money in  the last year of Loui's deal. 

 

Edited February 25, 2020 by Jimmy McGill

[aGENT]

11 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

well then in that case a buyout really is the only option then if we don't want to make things worse and lose picks or prospects, and want to save money in  the last year of Loui's deal. 

 

50% retention (after bonus) and taking back a +/- $1m AHL contract makes it basically cash neutral. Here's hoping that wouldn't cost TOO much in futures is we can find a dance partner. It's the best solution if we can

[Provost]

10 minutes ago, aGENT said:

50% retention (after bonus) and taking back a +/- $1m AHL contract makes it basically cash neutral. Here's hoping that wouldn't cost TOO much in futures is we can find a dance partner. It's the best solution if we can

I still dream of them sitting down Eriksson in the exit interviews and telling him that we are moving on and he is going to be assigned directly to the farm team next season.

Leave it up to him to decide whether to mutually terminate before July 1st and look for another team; take his signing bonus on July 1st and retire with dignity (with the caveat that he has to do it right on July 1st or we claw back the signing bonus); or spend the next two years practicing/travelling with the Comets and playing extremely limited minutes there.

 

It should have happened this season, so I doubt they play hardball at this point

 

To me, the buyout is the worst solution.  It costs us cap hit next year $5.6 million plus his replacement roster spot is more than just keeping him.  That would result in $4 million or so of ELC bonuses from next season pushing into 2020-21.... that is more than the slight savings we would see to his cap in that year from a buyout.

 

The only real answer is to pay the price to shed a bunch of cap this summer.  It will cost us in futures but also gain us a lot in being able to retain players for the next two seasons.

Edited February 25, 2020 by Provost

[aGENT]

2 minutes ago, Provost said:

I still dream of them sitting down Eriksson in the exit interviews and telling him that we are moving on and he is going to be assigned directly to the farm team next season.

Leave it up to him to decide whether to mutually terminate before July 1st and look for another team; take his signing bonus on July 1st and retire with dignity (with the caveat that he has to do it right on July 1st or we claw back the signing bonus); or spend the next two years practicing/travelling with the Comets and playing extremely limited minutes there.

 

It should have happened this season, so I doubt they play hardball at this point

Don't think we have any recourse to 'claw back' any bonuses.

[Provost]

5 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Don't think we have any recourse to 'claw back' any bonuses.

I read it in the CBA a couple of weeks back.

 

If a player retires in a season where he has gotten a signing bonus, the team is allowed to go to arbitration and get the bonus back.  It is up to the team to do so, and that is how they can save the cap hit from it.

It stops players from taking the money and running.  Most situations teams don’t want that to happen, but we could use it as leverage to get him to play ball... we say we won’t take him to arbitration for it if he retires in time for us to actually use that cap space in free agency to re-sign players.

Edited February 25, 2020 by Provost

[aGENT]

17 minutes ago, Provost said:

I read it in the CBA a couple of weeks back.

 

If a player retires in a season where he has gotten a signing bonus, the team is allowed to go to arbitration and get the bonus back.  It is up to the team to do so, and that is how they can save the cap hit from it.

It stops players from taking the money and running.  Most situations teams don’t want that to happen, but we could use it as leverage to get him to play ball... we say we won’t take him to arbitration for it if he retires in time for us to actually use that cap space in free agency to re-sign players.

Interesting!

[JM_]

46 minutes ago, aGENT said:

50% retention (after bonus) and taking back a +/- $1m AHL contract makes it basically cash neutral. Here's hoping that wouldn't cost TOO much in futures is we can find a dance partner. It's the best solution if we can

yeah, &^@#. I thought maybe we had something there  

[khay]

On 1/23/2020 at 9:50 AM, theo5789 said:

Did you take into account the bonus overages? I'm not sure Baertschi's cap simply disappears, we may have to retain or buy him out or pay an asset to move him.

 

I'm not that worried about the cap either, but can't ignore those things.

Correct me if I'm wrong but bonus is 850k for EP and 850K for Hughes. EP isn't going to get any schedule B bonus because you have to be like top 10 in scoring, winning an NHL awards, and so on (league wide accomplishment). I'm not sure about Hughes but I heard somewhere that he doesn't have schedule B bonus in his contract. So even if he wins Calder, he won't get 2 mil like EP probably did last year.

 

I don't think there is cap hell next season as long as JB can unload Baer and Sutter and negotiates a reasonable contract with UFAs.

[Provost]

24 minutes ago, khay said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but bonus is 850k for EP and 850K for Hughes. EP isn't going to get any schedule B bonus because you have to be like top 10 in scoring, winning an NHL awards, and so on (league wide accomplishment). I'm not sure about Hughes but I heard somewhere that he doesn't have schedule B bonus in his contract. So even if he wins Calder, he won't get 2 mil like EP probably did last year.

 

I don't think there is cap hell next season as long as JB can unload Baer and Sutter and negotiates a reasonable contract with UFAs.

That is true, but that is this year’s bonuses and they are 100% going to push into next year for $1.7 in reduced cap.

 

We also have next year’s bonuses to account for nexuses we absolutely can’t afford to let those push into 2021-22.  I wouldn’t count on Petterson not hitting a schedule B bonus either, and add in Juolevi and you could be looking at $4 million in bonuses earned by ELC bonuses next year.

 

So take the $1.7 from this year and say $3 million from next year and take those off our 2020-22 cap ceiling.

 

We are absolutely in cap hell, and it will need to get sorted by giving up futures or not re-signing valuable players.

[BPA]

After LE signing bonus

 

1st + LE to Ottawa for whatever.

Use the cap space to re-sign Toffoli. 

[Nuxfanabroad]

Ottawa/Melnyk LOVE non-performing cap hit, that is LTIR'ed/ or front-ended salary, already paid. This is based upon recent history, right up to today. If insurance covers a big slice, that is. Until they get a downtown arena, imagine they'll operate in similar fashion.

 

Van:Ferland(if he goes for retirement), & LouiE. Is almost 10 mill cap hit.

Take back the Colin White contract. Buy it out, summer 2021 for 820k x 8 yrs

 

 

With drafting 2 high end C's(probably in June), they'll want to dump White's 24,000,000 $ commitment.

We might even add a decent vet to above deal, & perhaps take back a 2nd? For example, Pearson or Roussel type, where we retain a %(preferably a 1 yr left contract)

[BPA]

Unfortunately Ferland has a NMC for the first 2 years and a limited NTC for the last 2 (submits 8 teams no trade list).  Unless Ferland does Canucks a solid and waived it, he's not going anywhere. 

[cuporbust]

On 1/23/2020 at 9:45 AM, HKSR said:

Honestly, no matter what the media tries to portray, there really isn't major cap hell for the Canucks.  GMJB reiterated that as well. 

 

Here's what I see for the coming year.  Running the numbers, we'd have $1M+ in cap space left.  If the cap doesn't go up, will likely mean goodbye to Stecher.

 

EDIT:  UPDATED WITH TRADE DEADLINE DONE

 

- Leivo, Graovac, Stecher won't be re-signed.

- Benn, Sutter, and Baertschi moved.

- Upper Limit of Cap going up by $1M.

- Markstrom @ 5.75M

- Toffoli @ 5.5M

- Tanev @ 5M

- Virtanen @ 3.5M

- Gaudette @ 2.0M ("show me" contract)

- Motte @ 1.5M

- Stecher @ 2.5M

- Added MacEwen @ ELC

- Rookie Defenceman (Rafferty) @ ELC

- Ferland either on LTIR or retires (honestly, he NEEDS to stop playing now.  It's for his long term health).

 

Honestly, it's the year after (2021-22) that looks more dicey.  With EP40 and QH both getting huge raises, something will have to give... in other words, Eriksson MUST be moved or bought out for 2021-22, otherwise we take a major step backwards.

 

People are also worried about the bonuses for EP40 and QH.  According to the CBA, performance bonuses count against the salary cap; however, a team can exceed the salary cap due to performance bonuses by the maximum performance bonus cushion amount of 7.5 percent of the upper limit. With the $81.5M cap, 7.5% amounts to $6.1125M.  However, the overage would reduce the following year's upper cap limit.  As per the CBA:

 

To the extent a Club's Averaged Club Salary exceeds its Upper Limit as a result of: (i) Exhibit 5 Individual "A" Performance Bonuses and "B" Performance Bonuses paid by the Club that may be earned by Players in the Entry Level System and (ii) Performance Bonuses that may be earned by Players pursuant to Section 50.2(b)(i)(C) above, then the Club's Upper Limit for the next League Year shall be reduced by an amount equal to such excess.

 

Tryamkin.  He will be coming back.