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Cap Hell for Canucks!!! (GREAT NEWS from Daly re: CAP for next year!!)

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I am positive some of the posts are for trolling purposes.

So wildly wishes and dreams.

 

"Hey Eriksson will pull us a solid and leave over 5 million on the table and not be able to play in the NHL", Ferland will waive? Baerstchi will be traded for a 2nd?, Tanev signs for less than the other defense men? Markstrom signs for 5 mil for 4 years and Demko is happy to spend another 5 years as a back up, The NHl will forgive the Luongo cap recapture and bonuses don't count, don't think about Pettersson and Hughes next contracts, Toffoli will sign for less money than where his family lives, and Seattle will not take any decent players from Vancouver only the one's we don't want, all the prospects are sure things so the team doesn't need any more draft picks so trade them away and clause contracts don't mean anything.

 

Nobody know's what Benning is going to do because there is no winning in dealing with the cap situation except maybe trading away more top draft picks to make cap space or just letting players walk for nothing.

 

The cap ceiling is really just a suggestion right?

Edited by Lazurus

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1 hour ago, BPA said:

Unfortunately Ferland has a NMC for the first 2 years and a limited NTC for the last 2 (submits 8 teams no trade list).  Unless Ferland does Canucks a solid and waived it, he's not going anywhere. 

Even if he does waive, he is probably not going anywhere. 

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1 hour ago, Lazurus said:

I am positive some of the posts are for trolling purposes.

So wildly wishes and dreams.

 

"Hey Eriksson will pull us a solid and leave over 5 million on the table and not be able to play in the NHL", Ferland will waive? Baerstchi will be traded for a 2nd?, Tanev signs for less than the other defense men? Markstrom signs for 5 mil for 4 years and Demko is happy to spend another 5 years as a back up, The NHl will forgive the Luongo cap recapture and bonuses don't count, don't think about Pettersson and Hughes next contracts, Toffoli will sign for less money than where his family lives, and Seattle will not take any decent players from Vancouver only the one's we don't want, all the prospects are sure things so the team doesn't need any more draft picks so trade them away and clause contracts don't mean anything.

 

Nobody know's what Benning is going to do because there is no winning in dealing with the cap situation except maybe trading away more top draft picks to make cap space or just letting players walk for nothing.

 

The cap ceiling is really just a suggestion right?

Granted there are a lot of ifs (I don't think any of these pan out as you stated)

I sure hope we don't resort to trading away picks and prospects for mistakes

We have a lot tied up in bottom 6, AHL and retirement, which will make it hard to keep the top 6 

Usually most of the bottom 6 ideally would be a mixture of lo cost vets and grooming prospects

Aquaman is a business man

He listened and did spent his money as Benning asked him too

I think he wants to let him squirm and let him figure this out and not just bail him out

He doesn't want him to think his money is free to gamble with now and in the future with no consequences

He told Aquaman and the public they have a plan

I am sure Aquaman and the rest of us hope it is a viable one that isn't short term without a cup in the end

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32 minutes ago, ba;;isticsports said:

Granted there are a lot of ifs (I don't think any of these pan out as you stated)

I sure hope we don't resort to trading away picks and prospects for mistakes

We have a lot tied up in bottom 6, AHL and retirement, which will make it hard to keep the top 6 

Usually most of the bottom 6 ideally would be a mixture of lo cost vets and grooming prospects

Aquaman is a business man

He listened and did spent his money as Benning asked him too

I think he wants to let him squirm and let him figure this out and not just bail him out

He doesn't want him to think his money is free to gamble with now and in the future with no consequences

He told Aquaman and the public they have a plan

I am sure Aquaman and the rest of us hope it is a viable one that isn't short term without a cup in the end

#1 picks are the currency for capped out teams to make space, have been since the cap came in.

:lol:There are NO mistakes, there can't be, everything is going according to the plan.:blink:

The top 3, Pettersson, Horvat and Virtanen will be around for the next 6 years, the rest will probably reduce to 3rd of 4th liners as they hit 32+ yrs old.

The 20+ mil bottom six will be gone within 2 more seasons, even Eriksson. The bottom six have clause contracts, a few do anyway but that would be a great spot for youngsters to test their mettle.

Aquaman is both a business man and almost fanatic fan,

True the amount of money wasted does show he hasn't been interfering

 

I read another posters thread and it does seem he is trying a re-tooling rather than a rebuild, replace a couple of spots with good future players and have vets to carry the load, a re-tool.

 

I think the only plan was to go al in for this playoff push, no expiring contracts signed for next season kind of shows this is a one off team.

 

I wondered about Brackett not being present for the TDL and I think it is so he can distanced from what might be coming and then Benning, like Gillis before him, can get all the blame.

Edited by Lazurus

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1 hour ago, Lazurus said:

#1 picks are the currency for capped out teams to make space, have been since the cap came in.

:lol:There are NO mistakes, there can't be, everything is going according to the plan.:blink:

The top 3, Pettersson, Horvat and Virtanen will be around for the next 6 years, the rest will probably reduce to 3rd of 4th liners as they hit 32+ yrs old.

The 20+ mil bottom six will be gone within 2 more seasons, even Eriksson. The bottom six have clause contracts, a few do anyway but that would be a great spot for youngsters to test their mettle.

Aquaman is both a business man and almost fanatic fan,

True the amount of money wasted does show he hasn't been interfering

 

I read another posters thread and it does seem he is trying a re-tooling rather than a rebuild, replace a couple of spots with good future players and have vets to carry the load, a re-tool.

 

I think the only plan was to go al in for this playoff push, no expiring contracts signed for next season kind of shows this is a one off team.

 

I wondered about Brackett not being present for the TDL and I think it is so he can distanced from what might be coming and then Benning, like Gillis before him, can get all the blame.

What blame JB made arguably the best trade of the TDL. 

 

It's on the team not him if they dont make the playoffs. He gave them the tools not his fault Markstrom got injured after the trade. 

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1 hour ago, Lazurus said:

#1 picks are the currency for capped out teams to make space, have been since the cap came in.

:lol:There are NO mistakes, there can't be, everything is going according to the plan.:blink:

The top 3, Pettersson, Horvat and Virtanen will be around for the next 6 years, the rest will probably reduce to 3rd of 4th liners as they hit 32+ yrs old.

The 20+ mil bottom six will be gone within 2 more seasons, even Eriksson. The bottom six have clause contracts, a few do anyway but that would be a great spot for youngsters to test their mettle.

Aquaman is both a business man and almost fanatic fan,

True the amount of money wasted does show he hasn't been interfering

 

I read another posters thread and it does seem he is trying a re-tooling rather than a rebuild, replace a couple of spots with good future players and have vets to carry the load, a re-tool.

 

I think the only plan was to go al in for this playoff push, no expiring contracts signed for next season kind of shows this is a one off team.

 

I wondered about Brackett not being present for the TDL and I think it is so he can distanced from what might be coming and then Benning, like Gillis before him, can get all the blame.

I think the Brackett thing has more to do with not wishing to renew his contract with Canucks. If one of your employee is leaving why allow him to continue to sit in confidential meetings? Benning and Weisbrod will be more directly involved with scouting/drafting once Brackett is gone. Is this a good thing? Who knows. 

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On 1/23/2020 at 9:54 AM, Where's Wellwood said:

I'd rather keep Leivo and let go of Motte.

 

Any chance Baer and the Canucks agree to mutually terminate the contract so Baer can sign elsewhere?

 

3 hours ago, hammertime said:

Motte is a beast. Hes probably the hardest working player on the ice. No slight to Leivo who I think was a great pickup but I want to keep the guy who hits everything in sight blocks every puck hes in front of and hustles every stride. Shades of Burrows when he entered the league

 

I agree. with hammertime. Frankly, both have such a low cap hit, if they can be re-signed for similar, for what they do on the ice, that we should try and keep both.  Its the Beagle and Sutter and even Rousell contracts, besides Baer's and Erickson's, that I wish we could deal away first.

 

Maybe Where's Wellwood should start a new thread:   Motte: Do we really need him?

.

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Edited by kilgore
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On 1/23/2020 at 10:11 AM, Alflives said:

Your post ain’t confusing.  I understand completely, but totally disagree.  The Myers contract is fair.  LE will retire after his July 2020 bonus.  He’s already made a gentleman’s agreement with JB to do that.  LE is saving face now that he’s contributing.  He will retire in July, and go out with a better reputation 

I have been thinking about Eriksson , Alf

 

I do not think he retires, but dissolves the contract by mutual agreement. That way he can see if he can get a job somewhere else. It will be after his bonus is paid.

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Both Baertschi and Sutter will have one year left.  I know Baertschi has negative value, but I don't think Sutter does.  Is it possible to use the assets in a Sutter trade to offset the losses in a Baertschi trade so the Canucks could walk away with a organizational loss of close to zero while freeing up about 6.5 million in cap space?

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Wonder why Baer is neg Value?

Canucks gave him  3.7 million for this year

He has been playing now and cleared for sometime

I thought players didn't lose spots because of injury?

 

They must have thought he was worth it to sign him to that amount

Crosby had concussions as well and kept playing after without negative value

I am not suggesting he is worth it and that we don't have better options now

But then why sign him to that, if the plan was to always upgrade?

It does not make sense

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1 hour ago, Wilbur said:

Both Baertschi and Sutter will have one year left.  I know Baertschi has negative value, but I don't think Sutter Roussel does.  Is it possible to use the assets in a Sutter Roussel trade to offset the losses in a Baertschi trade so the Canucks could walk away with a organizational loss of close to zero while freeing up about 6.5 million in cap space?

FTFY

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1 hour ago, ba;;isticsports said:

Wonder why Baer is neg Value?

Canucks gave him  3.7 million for this year

He has been playing now and cleared for sometime

I thought players didn't lose spots because of injury?

 

They must have thought he was worth it to sign him to that amount

Crosby had concussions as well and kept playing after without negative value

I am not suggesting he is worth it and that we don't have better options now

But then why sign him to that, if the plan was to always upgrade?

It does not make sense

Considering that Baer passed through waivers and did not get picked up generally means no other team think he's worth the cap hit.

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5 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

I have been thinking about Eriksson , Alf

 

I do not think he retires, but dissolves the contract by mutual agreement. That way he can see if he can get a job somewhere else. It will be after his bonus is paid.

Yes, this is what a lot of us hope will happen. I think thats what most mean when they say "retire".  But you're right, should be clear, its not a retirement from hockey were wanting to happen. Technically, all we want is for him to nix his contract and retire only as a Canuck. Another NHL team might employ him for 2+ mill as a bottom six, experienced veteran, that can fill spots in the top six for brief stints if need be.  Or he has the option of returning to his homeland to finish out his hockey career.  Or, Canucks could have the same employment "arrangement" Florida signed with the other Lou. He has options.

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Honestly, I don't think next season is the big issue when it comes to the cap crunch. In my opinion, here are the 4 objectives that Management needs to sort out:

 

- Maintain an Internal Cap structure until 2021-2022 season 

- Determine Ferland's state of health

- Deal with excess dead cap

- Supplementing the roster with ELC/Sub Million Dollar Contracts.

 

In this particular scenario, my objective as an arm-chair GM is to maintain as much of the roster as it sits now within the current salary cap (Don't depend on a salary cap increase). Here goes:

 

- No one on our team has a contract signed over $6,000,000. For the Canucks to maintain flexibility, no contract can be signed over that amount for next season. That means no massive overpayments for Markstrom, Tanev, or Toffoli (He is resigned in my scenario), no massive UFA deal (No Hall), and bridges for low cost RFAs (Motte, MacEwan, and Gaudette).

 

Let's assume the top 6 ends up being Miller - Pettersson - Boeser & Pearson - Horvat - Toffoli. Also, let's assume that Beagle centres Motte & MacEwan (Both qualified, $1,000,000 and $875,000, respectively). It's a safe bet that Gaudette will be 3C, with Virtanen on his flank. That leaves five names that are still under contract: Roussel, Ferland, Sutter, Baerstchi, and Eriksson.

 

I'm going on the notion that no one will touch Eriksson or Ferland. They will remain with the franchise in some capacity in my scenario.

 

Contrary to popular belief, both Sutter and Roussel have some value to their contracts, albeit limited. I foresee Sutter & Roussel traded for a combination of low draft picks and C prospects. With one year left on his deal, Sutter can easily be traded on draft day, or during the July 1st frenzy. Roussel's two years makes it a bit tougher, but he brings intangibles that other teams may covet, particularly for a long playoff run (assuming his presence on the Canucks roster is such during our own playoff run). Baerstchi will likely be buried again though he could potentially outplay both Ferland and Eriksson for a spot in the line-up. The ball is in his court, but in my scenario, I will be trading him for a low pick or B/C Prospect at 50% rentention. With one year left on his deal, Baertschi is a lot more valuable, especially at a cap hit of approximately $1.7M.

 

Ferland's health is really the big question. He can potentially recover and fit nicely as 3LW. Alternatively, he may be placed on LTIR for the remainder of his contract, providing additional flexibility. To make things interesting, let's assume he's healthy and good to go as 3LW!

 

This leaves Eriksson. If waived, a cap hit of $4.925 Million remains on the books. There's discussion that he may retire once he receives his July 15th bonus, but again, can't rely on that to happen. He'll stay on as 13th forward for purposes of simplicity. 

 

On the backend is where we're going to see most of our ELCs fill in the holes. Benn will no doubt be traded as we don't need a $2 Million 7th D, and he could probably fetch a late 2nd on draft day, though likely a 3rd. In my scenario, I've called up Juolevi and Rafferty.

 

With all that said, here's what I ended up with:

 

Miller ($5.25M)  -- Pettersson ($925K) -- Boeser ($5.875M)

Pearson ($3.75M) -- Horvat ($5.5M) -- Toffoli ($5.5M)

Ferland ($3.5M) -- Gaudette ($1.5M) -- Virtanen ($3.5M)

Motte ($1M) -- Beagle ($3M) -- MacEwan ($875K)

Eriksson ($6M)

 

Edler ($6M) -- Stecher ($3M)

Hughes ($917K) -- Tanev ($5M)

Juolevi ($863K) -- Myers ($6M)

Rafferty ($700K)

 

Markstrom ($6M)

Demko ($1.05M)

 

Baerstchi Retained Salary ($1.683M)

Spooner Buyout ($1.033M)

Luongo Recapture ($3.033M)

 

Total: $81.454

 

This is an ideal scenario, but there are so many different ways it can go. Baertschi, could be buried, he could fail to report, he can be suspended, and have his contract terminated. Eriksson can retire on July 16, 2020. Ferland can go on permanent LTIR. Virtanen could be traded in a package. One or more of Markstrom, Tanev, Stecher, or Toffoli could walk. The purpose of this exercise was to see if the current roster (for the most part) be maintained in a somewhat realistic fashion. Would love to hear your thoughts on the matter!

 

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It sounds ok at 1st glance (are you signing long term like Gillis had too in order to keep everyone)? and with our best players still needing huge pay increases soon?

I would think other teams would ask for retention on Sutter and Roussel and not do us any favours, knowing our situation, as they would Baer

Why does OJ make more than Rafferty? (Isn't Rafferty outplaying him on the farm)?

 

Is Toffoli signing for less than Boeser as a rfa/ (at 25 Toffoli signed for a cap hit of 4.6aav) How long do you sign him for? (dead weight problem at the end)?

 

How long are you signing Markstrom to for that? (will he be dead weight at the end of his contract)?

He is 30 Jonathan Quick who has a lot of awards and cups makes that and signed a 10 yr deal to be at that level and not the goalie he was at 34 and still 3 more years to go

If signed long term how do you keep all the goalies happy?( Markstrom and 2 prospects)?

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1 hour ago, therodigy said:

Honestly, I don't think next season is the big issue when it comes to the cap crunch. In my opinion, here are the 4 objectives that Management needs to sort out:

 

- Maintain an Internal Cap structure until 2021-2022 season 

- Determine Ferland's state of health

- Deal with excess dead cap

- Supplementing the roster with ELC/Sub Million Dollar Contracts.

 

In this particular scenario, my objective as an arm-chair GM is to maintain as much of the roster as it sits now within the current salary cap (Don't depend on a salary cap increase). Here goes:

 

- No one on our team has a contract signed over $6,000,000. For the Canucks to maintain flexibility, no contract can be signed over that amount for next season. That means no massive overpayments for Markstrom, Tanev, or Toffoli (He is resigned in my scenario), no massive UFA deal (No Hall), and bridges for low cost RFAs (Motte, MacEwan, and Gaudette).

 

Let's assume the top 6 ends up being Miller - Pettersson - Boeser & Pearson - Horvat - Toffoli. Also, let's assume that Beagle centres Motte & MacEwan (Both qualified, $1,000,000 and $875,000, respectively). It's a safe bet that Gaudette will be 3C, with Virtanen on his flank. That leaves five names that are still under contract: Roussel, Ferland, Sutter, Baerstchi, and Eriksson.

 

I'm going on the notion that no one will touch Eriksson or Ferland. They will remain with the franchise in some capacity in my scenario.

 

Contrary to popular belief, both Sutter and Roussel have some value to their contracts, albeit limited. I foresee Sutter & Roussel traded for a combination of low draft picks and C prospects. With one year left on his deal, Sutter can easily be traded on draft day, or during the July 1st frenzy. Roussel's two years makes it a bit tougher, but he brings intangibles that other teams may covet, particularly for a long playoff run (assuming his presence on the Canucks roster is such during our own playoff run). Baerstchi will likely be buried again though he could potentially outplay both Ferland and Eriksson for a spot in the line-up. The ball is in his court, but in my scenario, I will be trading him for a low pick or B/C Prospect at 50% rentention. With one year left on his deal, Baertschi is a lot more valuable, especially at a cap hit of approximately $1.7M.

 

Ferland's health is really the big question. He can potentially recover and fit nicely as 3LW. Alternatively, he may be placed on LTIR for the remainder of his contract, providing additional flexibility. To make things interesting, let's assume he's healthy and good to go as 3LW!

 

This leaves Eriksson. If waived, a cap hit of $4.925 Million remains on the books. There's discussion that he may retire once he receives his July 15th bonus, but again, can't rely on that to happen. He'll stay on as 13th forward for purposes of simplicity. 

 

On the backend is where we're going to see most of our ELCs fill in the holes. Benn will no doubt be traded as we don't need a $2 Million 7th D, and he could probably fetch a late 2nd on draft day, though likely a 3rd. In my scenario, I've called up Juolevi and Rafferty.

 

With all that said, here's what I ended up with:

 

Miller ($5.25M)  -- Pettersson ($925K) -- Boeser ($5.875M)

Pearson ($3.75M) -- Horvat ($5.5M) -- Toffoli ($5.5M)

Ferland ($3.5M) -- Gaudette ($1.5M) -- Virtanen ($3.5M)

Motte ($1M) -- Beagle ($3M) -- MacEwan ($875K)

Eriksson ($6M)

 

Edler ($6M) -- Stecher ($3M)

Hughes ($917K) -- Tanev ($5M)

Juolevi ($863K) -- Myers ($6M)

Rafferty ($700K)

 

Markstrom ($6M)

Demko ($1.05M)

 

Baerstchi Retained Salary ($1.683M)

Spooner Buyout ($1.033M)

Luongo Recapture ($3.033M)

 

Total: $81.454

 

This is an ideal scenario, but there are so many different ways it can go. Baertschi, could be buried, he could fail to report, he can be suspended, and have his contract terminated. Eriksson can retire on July 16, 2020. Ferland can go on permanent LTIR. Virtanen could be traded in a package. One or more of Markstrom, Tanev, Stecher, or Toffoli could walk. The purpose of this exercise was to see if the current roster (for the most part) be maintained in a somewhat realistic fashion. Would love to hear your thoughts on the matter!

 

Any plan that counts on us easily shedding $11 million in cap to other teams and getting a return on doing that isn't very realistic in my opinion.

We had deals go south at the deadline because no one was willing to take on Baertschi's fairly small contract.  No teams have much cap space for next season with an expected fairly flat cap.  It might be possible to shed cap, but don't expect teams to be lining up to take on players that we think of as expendable.

Even in that plan, we need to account for $1.7 million in pushed ELC's from this year, so that has to be added and another player taken away.  We also need buffer for short term injury call ups and another buffer for an expected $3-4 million in ELC bonuses for next year that we can't afford to push into 2021-22.  Your plan also needs to get rid of Eriksson on top of Sutter, Roussel, Baertschi, and Benn.

It isn't unsolvable... but it is going to hurt.

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4 minutes ago, Provost said:

Any plan that counts on us easily shedding $11 million in cap to other teams and getting a return on doing that isn't very realistic in my opinion.

We had deals go south at the deadline because no one was willing to take on Baertschi's fairly small contract.  No teams have much cap space for next season with an expected fairly flat cap.  It might be possible to shed cap, but don't expect teams to be lining up to take on players that we think of as expendable.

Even in that plan, we need to account for $1.7 million in pushed ELC's from this year, so that has to be added and another player taken away.  We also need buffer for short term injury call ups and another buffer for an expected $3-4 million in ELC bonuses for next year that we can't afford to push into 2021-22.  Your plan also needs to get rid of Eriksson on top of Sutter, Roussel, Baertschi, and Benn.

It isn't unsolvable... but it is going to hurt.

100% agree.  It’s a paradoxical issue, that has no good solution.  It’s going to cost us our future to dump the contracts that are holding back our future.  So I’ve decided to cheer for the now.  

Edited by Alflives
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23 hours ago, Lazurus said:

I wondered about Brackett not being present for the TDL and I think it is so he can distanced from what might be coming and then Benning, like Gillis before him, can get all the blame.

Why does the director of amateur scouting need to be involved with the TDL? His job is to find the best picks available with the picks we do have. If he isn't present, perhaps he's out scouting and doing his actual job.

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4 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

Why does the director of amateur scouting need to be involved with the TDL? His job is to find the best picks available with the picks we do have. If he isn't present, perhaps he's out scouting and doing his actual job.

Regardless, it’s Bracket who is behind our recent great draft results, right?  Not having him already locked up to another contract is stupid, or he just doesn’t want to be here anymore. 

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