Cap Hell for Canucks!!! (GREAT NEWS from Daly re: CAP for next year!!)

[mll]

11 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Thanks, forgot to correct that part as well.

 

Though I believe, if he retires after his bonus this summer, we're still on the hook for that $3m portion for next year. The entire $6 would be gone the year after though.

If a player gets traded after his bonus payment there is no residual cap hit for the initial team if the trade took place in the off-season.  Why wouldn't it be the same for retirement.  The AAV captures all the payments.  

[spook007]

2 hours ago, Alflives said:

Pretty sure on one of those Canuck’s videos that showed our draft table discussions, JB (more than once when asked about important decisions) deferred to Bracket.  

As he should... otherwise what would be the point of having Brackett... 

As theo says... people good at their jobs tend to get promotions (just like we got Benning). Maybe he has an offer of a promotion, or maybe they already have an agreement about what happens next.... Or maybe he thinks JB is a tit and can't wait to get away.... (yeah right  )

[aGENT]

8 minutes ago, mll said:

If a player gets traded after his bonus payment there is no residual cap hit for the initial team if the trade took place in the off-season.  Why wouldn't it be the same for retirement.  The AAV captures all the payments.  

Not sure...feel free to confirm.

[aGENT]

24 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

I'd hate to Trade Stecher but it's basically a numbers game. Hopefully for a late round pick at the draft.

- Trade Sutter and Roussel, both have NTC's not NMC's.

- There are players like Goldy, Pope, and Bachman that can be let go.

I think the issues will be.

- What does Marky, Toffoli, and Tanev want as a contract/term?

 

It can be made to work. Might come down to we can keep two but not 3 of the UFA's.

 

Only ways I see us retaining Stecher are if Tanev walks or maybe if Stecher will sign at or near Benn's hit, and we move Benn.

 

Even then I think Benn might be out for an ELC to scrape +/- $1.2m of cap back. In which case Stech might still be on the outs. Unfortunately.

[theo5789]

29 minutes ago, Jester13 said:

One thing I didn't realize with Brackett until I read this thread is that he has a 100% success rate with the prospects he recommends; I mean, it's unbelievable how has he never recommended someone who didn't turn into an NHLer? That's amazing! 

 

 

 

All good picks are made by Brackett, all duds were made by Benning. Duh.

[Lazurus]

46 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Quote

 

Ferland has a NMC so he cannot be waived and has to be protected for the Seattle draft, a minor disaster in that a protected spot is used for an LTIR, the NMC is in effect at draft time.

Not, it's not. He won't be protected.

Players with a “No Movement” clause that is currently in effect, and continues to be in effect at the time of the Expansion Draft, must be protected by their respective team, unless such players choose to waive their NMC, at which point the team is free to expose them.

 

2019-20	NMC							$4,500,000
2020-21	NMC	Still in effect						$3,000,000
2021-22	Modified NTC							$3,750,000
2022-23	Modified NTC

[theo5789]

1 hour ago, Lazurus said:

A Loui retirement still carries a huge cap hit, not sure what a mutual termination would do but I would expect it is similar to retiring if the NHL or NHLPA would let that happen, it seems if that was easy there would not be so many long term LTIR's. Even if he is sent to the minors it is a 5 mil cap hit and there are many players who played in the minors to be paid 5 million dollars, no I am afraid the only way Eriksson moves is with a big incentive, the team really cannot even retain salary. Better off to keep him and just think of him as overpaid and sing an under paid player to make up the difference than throw away another pick or prospect.

Covered already.

 

1 hour ago, Lazurus said:

Ferland has a NMC so he cannot be waived and has to be protected for the Seattle draft, a minor disaster in that a protected spot is used for an LTIR, the NMC is in effect at draft time.

There is no cap room to retain half of his salary.

Covered already.

 

1 hour ago, Lazurus said:

Tanev will want and get, if Benning is still here, what he wants, Edler did and Benning had a huge amount of leverage on his side, not as much with Tanev and it will be his last big payday.

Covered already. Just want to add that Edler took less term so he wouldn't have to be protected in the expansion, what a guy. If Tanev wants to stay, he will make it work. If he wants to be paid, he will make it work, it just won't be with us.

 

1 hour ago, Lazurus said:

Demko is signed for another year so he would be stuck but then his contract comes up and even as a RFA he could demand out, the RFA might be the only asset the team could recoup on but not for a huge return. The message sent by Benning in signing Markstrom to a long term high paying clause contract to Demko would be clear, Demko to Seattle and then they might sign and trade him for a much bigger return. Van has to expose a goalie that played in the NHL that year and I think a minimum of 10+ games, not watching.

We will see how the goalie situation is. You are right that if we sign Marky long term, then it's clear for Demko. Demko will be sought after if available just like any other backups on good teams, the return will be good (in many cases 2x2nds has been the return, which would bode well for us in the upcoming draft). And it's been covered, but we could just sign some journeyman (maybe Domingue has a bigger purpose here) and we are fine.

 

1 hour ago, Lazurus said:

On Toffoli, it was reported he was very, very upset at being traded and loves where his family live, so he might be considered a rental and his cap hit won't make a difference but that still doesn't help much overall.

Where is this report? Everything to date has benn Toffoli (and his wife) praising the city and the people/teammates. Whatever he may have felt about being traded, he and his wife may fall in love with being here and it helps that we are a competitive team.

 

1 hour ago, Lazurus said:

I heard a radio show where the commentator was advocating not thinking about the future of the team, that seems ridiculous and maybe why the cap is in such disarray, for years it has been wait for prospects, wait for next year, wait until  and now the team might be a playoff team the message is don't think about the team next year. Talk about reducing the fans expectations, from a cup to a season to being competitive, to a game all the while saying, next year.

 

IMO there are alot of pretty smart posters that can see the signs, the averages of salaries and such. Even some that ma be alarmed at the lack of any contracts getting done and leaving them to the end. Let's be really optimistic, the season runs to the first week of June, so right after there is draft to get ready for and 10 players to negotiate with and a cap to manage all the while concentrating on the playoffs. By that time other players would have re-sign bumping up the market value.

 

But like i posted there are a lot of really smart posters so maybe one comes up with a solution that doesn't include a nuclear bomb where years of the future are destroyed. Really I hope someone does.

 

I would post my idea but it does have a bomb involved, one player does not make a team, neither does two.

Benning has been looking into the future of the team. He was the one, when we have 20+ million in cap space, that had the foresight to suggest we didn't have as much cap space as it seemed and didn't want to take on useless cap dumps for picks. He always had a plan to push the team forward and we continue to do so rather than be in some spiraling funk that is difficult to get out of. Benning doesn't seem worried about the cap moving forward (perhaps has a plan in place). We are close to the cap because we have an owner willing to spend to the cap to build a winning team, terrible stuff eh?

 

There may be a tough decision or two, but the team will be fine. This season won't be a one off. We aren't Toronto.

[aGENT]

1 minute ago, Lazurus said:

Players with a “No Movement” clause that is currently in effect, and continues to be in effect at the time of the Expansion Draft, must be protected by their respective team, unless such players choose to waive their NMC, at which point the team is free to expose them.

 

2019-20	NMC							$4,500,000
2020-21	NMC	Still in effect						$3,000,000
2021-22	Modified NTC							$3,750,000
2022-23	Modified NTC

Just like a couple weeks ago when I corrected you on this:

 

54 minutes ago, mll said:

Ferland's NMC will be a modified NTC for the expansion draft and he can be exposed.  It's the status at the upcoming 1 July that applies although the draft takes place a few days earlier.  If Ferland is ruled by the league to have a career ending injury he is exempt from expansion

 

Once again, you are wrong.

[theo5789]

1 minute ago, Lazurus said:

Players with a “No Movement” clause that is currently in effect, and continues to be in effect at the time of the Expansion Draft, must be protected by their respective team, unless such players choose to waive their NMC, at which point the team is free to expose them.

 

2019-20	NMC							$4,500,000
2020-21	NMC	Still in effect						$3,000,000
2021-22	Modified NTC							$3,750,000
2022-23	Modified NTC

We will be concerned about it then. The fact that it becomes a modified NTC right after would suggest that he isn't dead set on staying here and surely will be willing to waive the NMC for expansion purposes. I'm not going to be panicking over this.

[spook007]

21 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

I have been thinking about Eriksson , Alf

 

I do not think he retires, but dissolves the contract by mutual agreement. That way he can see if he can get a job somewhere else. It will be after his bonus is paid.

If this were to happen, Eriksson dissolves the contract by mutual agreement, will there be any cap penalty to Canucks?

 

[aGENT]

3 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

We will be concerned about it then. The fact that it becomes a modified NTC right after would suggest that he isn't dead set on staying here and surely will be willing to waive the NMC for expansion purposes. I'm not going to be panicking over this.

Nothing at all to be concerned about. It's the upcoming status for July 1 that applies to the ED. It's also possible that Ferland will be on LTIR and again, won't be exposed or protected. It's not a concern at all.

[theo5789]

1 hour ago, aGENT said:

Nothing at all to be concerned about. It's the upcoming status for July 1 that applies to the ED. It's also possible that Ferland will be on LTIR and again, won't be exposed or protected. It's not a concern at all.

Almost if Benning had planned for the expansion unlike what some here seem to think that Benning just does as he pleases regardless of everything. Funny coming from a poster that was just ridiculing others about some dream fantasies of the cap situation. If those people were dreaming, then he must be living in some nightmare world.

[mll]

15 hours ago, theo5789 said:

Why does the director of amateur scouting need to be involved with the TDL? His job is to find the best picks available with the picks we do have. If he isn't present, perhaps he's out scouting and doing his actual job.

Because there might be prospects or draft picks involved in trades discussed - not only as trade chip but also as part of a possible return.   

 

Doesn't amateur scouting go beyond the draft.  Players already drafted are still scouted in their respective leagues - the pro-scout is normally not the one looking at WHL, OHL or NCAA games.

 

Some trades involve swapping draft picks.  Knowing who is available around those spots can play a role. 

 

Back in 2016 Bergevin gave up a 2x 2nd round picks to get Andrew Shaw out of Chicago although Montreal scouts were apparently quite high on Samuel Girard.  He was also Quebecois.  He would have been the LD they are still looking for.

 

Edited February 28, 2020 by mll

[theo5789]

6 hours ago, mll said:

Because there might be prospects or draft picks involved in trades discussed - not only as trade chip but also as part of a possible return.   

 

Doesn't amateur scouting go beyond the draft.  Players already drafted are still scouted in their respective leagues - the pro-scout is normally not the one looking at WHL, OHL or NCAA games.

 

Some trades involve swapping draft picks.  Knowing who is available around those spots can play a role. 

 

Back in 2016 Bergevin gave up a 2x 2nd round picks to get Andrew Shaw out of Chicago although Montreal scouts were apparently quite high on Samuel Girard.  He was also Quebecois.  He would have been the LD they are still looking for.

 

I can understand getting some input on the progress of some prospects and if we were to make a trade, which we should give up. But this can be done on the phone, I don't see a need for the director to be present in the room.

 

As for picks, the scouting department simply needs to find the best picks available at the spots we are in. Hard to tell this early where teams will end up so it'll be hard to pinpoint which picks to target, that's done closer or at the draft. The only real input might be if there was a player they're really high on and think they can sneak them with a 2nd round pick and we should acquire that, then sure. But even then I imagine it'll be done at the draft rather than the TDL where the priority is more on focusing on the playoffs.

[Lazurus]

 

 

19 hours ago, aGENT said:

Nothing at all to be concerned about. It's the upcoming status for July 1 that applies to the ED. It's also possible that Ferland will be on LTIR and again, won't be exposed or protected. It's not a concern at all.

Why is it that the wording is difficult to understand, the rule clearly states "at the time of the draft". which is before July 1 not after. Unless there is another part of the rule that says only for the next season, it says they must waive for the draft. The need to protect Edler might be exempt because he is not under contract for the following season and team's cannot expose future FA's. The rules does say under contract for the next season, not the any clauses.

As far as injury it does say he cannot be exposed but all NMC's must be protected, a gray area when the player is or was on LTIR.

9 hours ago, mll said:

23 hours ago, theo5789 said:

Why does the director of amateur scouting need to be involved with the TDL? His job is to find the best picks available with the picks we do have. If he isn't present, perhaps he's out scouting and doing his actual job.

Because there might be prospects or draft picks involved in trades discussed - not only as trade chip but also as part of a possible return.   

 

Doesn't amateur scouting go beyond the draft.  Players already drafted are still scouted in their respective leagues - the pro-scout is normally not the one looking at WHL, OHL or NCAA games.

 

Some trades involve swapping draft picks.  Knowing who is available around those spots can play a role. 

 

Back in 2016 Bergevin gave up a 2x 2nd round picks to get Andrew Shaw out of Chicago although Montreal scouts were apparently quite high on Samuel Girard.  He was also Quebecois.  He would have been the LD they are still looking for.

There could be other reasons for the director not to be present, family, health but in this case the contract impasse is a real a possibility as any. Admittedly it has to be something pretty big for the top guy not to be present. But then Benning has not signed ANY new contracts at all this season and that should be considered odd.

 

Pro scouts go everywhere

Toffoli will want a raise and term to re-sign here if he does, I think he goes back home though, his wife has a great job and LA will want him back, their rebuild is more along the lines of a re-tooling and they already have 7 players under 24 and 4 picks in the first round this season, the number one will probably suit up and still have another 5 top prospects in the system, loads of cap space to sign a FA or trade. They already have a championship pedigree needing younger support  and replacement players, the window is still open a crack.

 

 

 

[Westcoasting]

On 2/27/2020 at 11:56 AM, theo5789 said:

So JB showed some trust in his director assigned for the role? I'm sure JB wants to keep him and thus extended him an extension offer. He has every right to pursue other opportunities if he feels he's ready for it. If he takes a different role here, then that takes him away from being the director of amateur scouting and in turn Benning will take the advice of the new guy in the role instead. I'm sure we will be fine after whatever transpires.

 

I should add that if he leaves, he likely bustaroos with his new team anyway, amirite?

Gold, absolutely gold

[WeneedLumme]

On February 27, 2020 at 1:24 PM, theo5789 said:

Benning has been looking into the future of the team. He was the one, when we have 20+ million in cap space, that had the foresight to suggest we didn't have as much cap space as it seemed and didn't want to take on useless cap dumps for picks. He always had a plan to push the team forward and we continue to do so rather than be in some spiraling funk that is difficult to get out of. Benning doesn't seem worried about the cap moving forward (perhaps has a plan in place). We are close to the cap because we have an owner willing to spend to the cap to build a winning team, terrible stuff eh?

I suspect that the posters who are panicking over our "cap hell" are the same armchair GMs who were vilifying JB for not "weaponizing" our cap space to load up with cap dumps and draft picks.

[Ballisticsports.]

On 2/27/2020 at 1:24 PM, theo5789 said:

Covered already.

 

Covered already.

 

Covered already. Just want to add that Edler took less term so he wouldn't have to be protected in the expansion, what a guy. If Tanev wants to stay, he will make it work. If he wants to be paid, he will make it work, it just won't be with us.

 

We will see how the goalie situation is. You are right that if we sign Marky long term, then it's clear for Demko. Demko will be sought after if available just like any other backups on good teams, the return will be good (in many cases 2x2nds has been the return, which would bode well for us in the upcoming draft). And it's been covered, but we could just sign some journeyman (maybe Domingue has a bigger purpose here) and we are fine.

 

Where is this report? Everything to date has benn Toffoli (and his wife) praising the city and the people/teammates. Whatever he may have felt about being traded, he and his wife may fall in love with being here and it helps that we are a competitive team.

 

Benning has been looking into the future of the team. He was the one, when we have 20+ million in cap space, that had the foresight to suggest we didn't have as much cap space as it seemed and didn't want to take on useless cap dumps for picks. He always had a plan to push the team forward and we continue to do so rather than be in some spiraling funk that is difficult to get out of. Benning doesn't seem worried about the cap moving forward (perhaps has a plan in place). We are close to the cap because we have an owner willing to spend to the cap to build a winning team, terrible stuff eh?

 

There may be a tough decision or two, but the team will be fine. This season won't be a one off. We aren't Toronto.

Perhaps he does, Let us hope so, as he has been saying all along they have a plan

This is a discussion forum and we just discuss and speculate what that could be, It would be pretty quiet here if no one did speculate and kick around ideas

 

 Just saying we aren't Toronto won't take away our situation though

The windows are very short with a cap, if it isn't managed properly

Jets were a contender to win the Cup, I am sure they wanted to keep everyone as well (Tanevs brother left there as well too)

 

It will be interesting to see the plan

There will have to be a sting I am sure, (no one is just going to want, what we don't ) as some of the players are not producing or even playing on the team anymore as they were expected too when signed to costly contracts

 

[RWMc1]

Pre-emptive whining!!

 

Remember last summer when we were going to lose good players to waivers. Weren't we also supposed to lose yet another roster player or two when Roussell came back. All that crying and nothing happened.

 

I'm sure that Benning has a plan; and contingency plans as well.

[theo5789]

53 minutes ago, ba;;isticsports said:

Perhaps he does, Let us hope so, as he has been saying all along they have a plan

This is a discussion forum and we just discuss and speculate what that could be, It would be pretty quiet here if no one did speculate and kick around ideas

 

 Just saying we aren't Toronto won't take away our situation though

The windows are very short with a cap, if it isn't managed properly

Jets were a contender to win the Cup, I am sure they wanted to keep everyone as well (Tanevs brother left there as well too)

 

It will be interesting to see the plan

There will have to be a sting I am sure, (no one is just going to want, what we don't ) as some of the players are not producing or even playing on the team anymore as they were expected too when signed to costly contracts

 

Considering that Benning has said there is a plan, then I'm fine with speculating what the plan is. However there are several posters that still believe that Benning has no foresight and has run this team into shambles with the cap, or in other words has no plan.