Cap Hell for Canucks!!! (GREAT NEWS from Daly re: CAP for next year!!)

[Provost]

8 minutes ago, Arrow 1983 said:

 

The Canucks have had first Roussel then Sutter and now ferland on Ltir. Any bonuses that have incurred while they where on LTIR will have used up LTIR space that we have remaining.

If you notice right now on capfriendly the Canucks have 2.8 available in LTIR also notice we are not carrying 23 players it is currently 22 zack was sent to the minors. This is probably due to the fact that as soon as Hughes and Petey play in the all star game this bonus will incur against the available 2.8 million LTIR.

Furthermore, When Freland comes back I fully expect both Leivo and the othe guy I can't remember his name will be moved to LTIR as they sit as IR right now according to capfriendly.

Except that im virtually every circumstance (including ours), you can’t count performance bonuses against LTIR relief... you keep quoting an article (over and over again) that doesn’t describe our situation and you are misinterpreting it to mean that LTIR space can be used for performance bonuses.  It can’t.

[chon derry]

3 hours ago, oldnews said:

 

 

* not for the OP - but for the perpetual premature  crisis-seekers in this market.

[chon derry]

dp.

Edited January 23, 2020 by chon derry

[canuktravella]

1 hour ago, canuktravella said:

 We will be trading tanevs rights  before july 1st. rafferty and tryamkin and rathbone can replace him with more offense and grit  our dcorp will be much diff next yr 

 

 edler myers

hughes tryamkin 

juolevi rathbone 

benn rafferty 

 

looks like a decent dcorp i really dont see tanev or stecher being on team next yr  trades will happen as for cap space i see one of motte or leivo being traded and baertchi or eriksson  mutually terminating contract. 

as for rathbone he will either have to shift to right side like rafferty or benning will have to trade them no way rathbone or rafferty push out edler hughes or juolevi on left side next yr. Edlers a lifelong canuck and the other two are elite prospects. I could see rathbone signed and rafferty packaged for young  good right d  or the coaches will play them on right side 

[Arrow 1983]

8 minutes ago, mll said:

Bonuses are only determined at the end of the season - the payout and the cap hit happens at the end of the season and not in season.  That end of season cap space then gets reduced by the bonus payment and any excess carried over.  For now the Canucks have 30'474.- in end of season cap space to pay the bonuses.

 

Last season Dallas had Stephen Johns out all season, as well as Hanzal and Methot for a large portion of the season yet were not able to absorb their performance bonuses because LTIR did not allow them to bank end of season cap space.

 

This is not true at all, rewards are determined after, seano like the Calder which could have implications on bonuses. But the actual bonuses that they make like goals assists points incur during the season. Yes it is possible that the Canucks could have a small overages but it will be in the hundred thousands not in the millions.

 

[aGENT]

15 minutes ago, gameburn said:

You're right, but the poster's point is still well taken: a lot of money for players that aren't difference makers and never will be.

The crunch comes next Fall, not in terms of money, but space on the roster.  Hoglander, Podkolzin and Juolevi are all starting to look they could make this team next year.

The poster's list is a pretty good list of what has to be gone if we are to have room for these 3, and that doesn't even include Rafferty and Lind, who seem to be credible alternatives, Rafferty especially.  Good problem to have, though.

 

'Difference maker' is quite subjective but the only players not making a difference there would be Luongo's cap recapture and Schaller presently in the press box.

[theo5789]

3 minutes ago, canuktravella said:

as for rathbone he will either have to shift to right side like rafferty or benning will have to trade them no way rathbone or rafferty push out edler hughes or juolevi on left side next yr. Edlers a lifelong canuck and the other two are elite prospects. I could see rathbone signed and rafferty packaged for young  good right d  or the coaches will play them on right side 

Rafferty is RD. Whatever the case, it's great to have this kind of depth that could be moved for tangible assets and cheap quality players to help mitigate any cap situations. Things are looking up.

[Alflives]

11 minutes ago, canuktravella said:

rafferty plays on a d pairing with juolevi so he sometimes plays right side  just like tryamkin 

edler hughes and juolevi will be our left side dmen for next 2-3 yrs edlers not retiring  so ya if rafferty wants in nhl he will be a right side d

Maybe both Rafferty and OJ are on our team next season?  

[mll]

23 minutes ago, Arrow 1983 said:

This is not true at all, rewards are determined after, seano like the Calder which could have implications on bonuses. But the actual bonuses that they make like goals assists points incur during the season. Yes it is possible that the Canucks could have a small overages but it will be in the hundred thousands not in the millions.

 

End of season and not in season.  Dallas had about 12M in players out long term.  They had 2 players with bonuses 932K total.  It got carried over because LTIR does not allow to bank end of season cap space.  

 

Edited January 23, 2020 by mll

[canuktravella]

2 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Maybe both Rafferty and OJ are on our team next season?  

maybe rafferty oj rathbone and tryamkin 

[Alflives]

Just now, canuktravella said:

maybe rafferty oj rathbone and tryamkin 

I’ll give you a Raf, OJ, Bone, and Tree,  and raise you a WOO!  

[canuktravella]

Just now, Alflives said:

I’ll give you a Raf, OJ, Bone, and Tree,  and raise you a WOO!  

i say woo plays a yr in utica 

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, canuktravella said:

i say woo plays a yr in utica 

Bone too.  But we could definitely see: Rafferty, OJ, and Tree.

[Arrow 1983]

15 minutes ago, mll said:

End of season and not in season.  Dallas had about 12M in players out long term.  They had 2 players with bonuses 932K total.  It got carried over because LTIR does not allow to bank end of season cap space.  

 

According to Capfriendly Dallas is not carrying overages from last season,

check Dallas roster on Capfriendly

[theo5789]

31 minutes ago, canuktravella said:

rafferty plays on a d pairing with juolevi so he sometimes plays right side  just like tryamkin 

edler hughes and juolevi will be our left side dmen for next 2-3 yrs edlers not retiring  so ya if rafferty wants in nhl he will be a right side d

Pretty sure Rafferty plays mostly with Brisebois and it's because Brogan is an RD, not being forced there, so if he ever does play with OJ, it's because it would be an LD-RD pair. He's even a right shot. So yes if he makes it to the NHL it'll be on the right side regardless because that's the side he plays.

[mll]

12 minutes ago, Arrow 1983 said:

According to Capfriendly Dallas is not carrying overages from last season,

check Dallas roster on Capfriendly

They have an overage of 932.5K.   It's under the section statistics "carryover bonus overages".  

ROSTER SIZE				22	15	7	4	3	3	1
STANDARD PLAYER CONTRACTS				48	33	15	4	3	3	1
AVERAGE AGE				28.9	29.9	32	31.8	31.3	32.3	33
UPPER LIMIT				$81,500,000	$81,500,000	$81,500,000	$81,500,000	$81,500,000	$81,500,000	$81,500,000
PROJECTED CAP HIT				$81,902,171	$62,035,832	$47,566,666	$30,066,666	$25,150,000	$25,150,000	$9,850,000
PROJECTED CAP SPACE				$815	$19,464,168	$33,933,334	$51,433,334	$56,350,000	$56,350,000	$71,650,000
CURRENT CAP SPACE				$4,750,000	-	-	-	-	-	-
DEADLINE CAP SPACE				$4,750,000	-	-	-	-	-	-
ESTIMATED SALARY EXPENDITURE				$91,145,000	$55,257,500	$50,650,000	$29,000,000	$19,950,000	$19,500,000	$7,100,000
CARRYOVER BONUS OVERAGES				$932,500	-	-	-	-	-	-
POTENTIAL PERFORMANCE BONUSES				$5,600,000	$2,500,000	$0	$0	$0	$0	$0
RETAINED SALARY REMAINING				3

-------

 

2017/18 was Boeser's rookie season.  He hit his schedule A target of 850K.  In January he went to the All-Star game and was All-Star MVP - that's 2x 212'500.-   Those amounts plus his other bonuses were only paid at the end of the season and created an overage for the Canucks.  Dorsett was on LTIR after he was told to stop playing. With LTIR in use they were not able to bank end of season cap space and had only 22K to cover the bonuses.  It created an overage for the 2018/19 season.   

 

Edited January 23, 2020 by mll

[gameburn]

17 minutes ago, aGENT said:

'Difference maker' is quite subjective but the only players not making a difference there would be Luongo's cap recapture and Schaller presently in the press box.

I agree that it can be hard to assess talent or relative importance of a player on a team/in the league.  But game-winning goals, and scoring in general is a pretty good start.  Virtanen is now a difference maker, he wasn't a lot of the time in his first couple of years.  He draws penalties (huge for a team with a good pp); he scores a fair number of even strength goals and plays physically enough to make the ice a bit bigger when he's out there. He is also beginning to look like a genuine top-6 forward who can pilot a powerplay.  He is paid less than Beagle.  He may well be paid less than Beagle when he gets his raise this summer.   Hughes is a difference maker, so is Miller, Pettersson, Horvat, Boeser and Pearson.  Tanev and Myers are good enough in their own ways to make a difference.  Stecher's plus minus numbers and overall tenacity would suggest he makes a difference.  Roussel when avoiding penalties can be a difference maker.  I'm not sure whether players like Motte, Beagle, Schaller, Benn, Edler, Eriksson, Sutter or even Gaudette  do a lot more than give the better players a rest.  (Gaudette is young and improving though, so worth giving plenty of ice time to.)  I realize this is a bit harsh, but it seems helpful to distinguish players who win games from those who provide relief for the players who win the games.  

 

Since the team began to get to the next level (lately?) we see more clearly where the goals come from consistently and who you play more and use on powerplays when it really matters.  Stats sometimes help with figuring these things out, but for me it is significant that Virtanen is more likely to be on a powerplay's point position than, say, Edler or Stecher..  

 

If the Canucks used players a bit more like some other teams do, such as putting their best players on the pk some of the time, then this would be more obvious.  We would have a better sense of who are the difference makers.  Now that Miller and Horvat can carry so many of the critical faceoff duties, and Hughes has proven himself to be a durable, smart player who never seems to become tired when he plays, we are getting a better and better sense of who is driving the bus.

[aGENT]

1 minute ago, gameburn said:

I agree that it can be hard to assess talent or relative importance of a player on a team/in the league.  But game-winning goals, and scoring in general is a pretty good start.  Virtanen is now a difference maker, he wasn't a lot of the time in his first couple of years.  He draws penalties (huge for a team with a good pp); he scores a fair number of even strength goals and plays physically enough to make the ice a bit bigger when he's out there. He is also beginning to look like a genuine top-6 forward who can pilot a powerplay.  He is paid less than Beagle.  He may well be paid less than Beagle when he gets his raise this summer.   Hughes is a difference maker, so is Miller, Pettersson, Horvat, Boeser and Pearson.  Tanev and Myers are good enough in their own ways to make a difference.  Stecher's plus minus numbers and overall tenacity would suggest he makes a difference.  Roussel when avoiding penalties can be a difference maker.  I'm not sure whether players like Motte, Beagle, Schaller, Benn, Edler, Eriksson, Sutter or even Gaudette  do a lot more than give the better players a rest.  (Gaudette is young and improving though, so worth giving plenty of ice time to.)  I realize this is a bit harsh, but it seems helpful to distinguish players who win games from those who provide relief for the players who win the games.  

 

Since the team began to get to the next level (lately?) we see more clearly where the goals come from consistently and who you play more and use on powerplays when it really matters.  Stats sometimes help with figuring these things out, but for me it is significant that Virtanen is more likely to be on a powerplay's point position than, say, Edler or Stecher..  

 

If the Canucks used players a bit more like some other teams do, such as putting their best players on the pk some of the time, then this would be more obvious.  We would have a better sense of who are the difference makers.  Now that Miller and Horvat can carry so many of the critical faceoff duties, and Hughes has proven himself to be a durable, smart player who never seems to become tired when he plays, we are getting a better and better sense of who is driving the bus.

Scoring is great...but you do also need guys who PK, take (and win) defensive zone draws etc. Things that are ignored, or importance downplayed by, far too many people.

 

 

[Provost]

18 minutes ago, Arrow 1983 said:

According to Capfriendly Dallas is not carrying overages from last season,

check Dallas roster on Capfriendly

Except according to Capfriendly it actually is carrying over bonus from last year.  There is a clear line item saying so.

 

 

[Arrow 1983]

10 minutes ago, mll said:

They have an overage of 932.5K.   It's under the section statistics "carryover bonus overages".  

ROSTER SIZE				22	15	7	4	3	3	1
STANDARD PLAYER CONTRACTS				48	33	15	4	3	3	1
AVERAGE AGE				28.9	29.9	32	31.8	31.3	32.3	33
UPPER LIMIT				$81,500,000	$81,500,000	$81,500,000	$81,500,000	$81,500,000	$81,500,000	$81,500,000
PROJECTED CAP HIT				$81,902,171	$62,035,832	$47,566,666	$30,066,666	$25,150,000	$25,150,000	$9,850,000
PROJECTED CAP SPACE				$815	$19,464,168	$33,933,334	$51,433,334	$56,350,000	$56,350,000	$71,650,000
CURRENT CAP SPACE				$4,750,000	-	-	-	-	-	-
DEADLINE CAP SPACE				$4,750,000	-	-	-	-	-	-
ESTIMATED SALARY EXPENDITURE				$91,145,000	$55,257,500	$50,650,000	$29,000,000	$19,950,000	$19,500,000	$7,100,000
CARRYOVER BONUS OVERAGES				$932,500	-	-	-	-	-	-
POTENTIAL PERFORMANCE BONUSES				$5,600,000	$2,500,000	$0	$0	$0	$0	$0
RETAINED SALARY REMAINING				3

-------

 

2017/18 was Boeser's rookie season.  He hit his schedule A target of 850K.  In January he went to the All-Star game and was All-Star MVP - that's 2x 212'500.-   Those amounts plus his other bonuses were only paid at the end of the season and created an overage for the Canucks.  Dorsett was on LTIR after he was told to stop playing. With LTIR in use they were not able to bank end of season cap space and had only 22K to cover the bonuses.  It created an overage for the 2018/19 season.   

 

ok go to capfriendly archive and show me where they used 12million in LTIR according to CF they used $479 and only Methot, Marcwas placed on LTIR for 28 days.