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Cap Hell for Canucks!!! (GREAT NEWS from Daly re: CAP for next year!!)

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HKSR

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4 minutes ago, Bure_Pavel said:

Lots of salary coming off the books in that year, enough to get Petey and Hughes signed no problem, next year is the big problem year in my eyes. 7.7 million dollars in dead cap coming off the books including Sutter, when they need to be signed.

Absolutely! I'm not worried about re-signing either. Given that we'll hopefully have a couple more years of experience (playoffs included) under our belt and are closer to legit 'contender' status at that point, I'd just like a few extra bucks to play with ;) 

 

Next year's a bit tight...but it's nothing to lose sleep over IMO. There's solutions available and ways to make it work.

 

 

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 We will be trading tanevs rights  before july 1st. rafferty and tryamkin and rathbone can replace him with more offense and grit  our dcorp will be much diff next yr 

 

 edler myers

hughes tryamkin 

juolevi rathbone 

benn rafferty 

 

looks like a decent dcorp i really dont see tanev or stecher being on team next yr  trades will happen as for cap space i see one of motte or leivo being traded and baertchi or eriksson  mutually terminating contract. 

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2 minutes ago, canuktravella said:

 We will be trading tanevs rights  before july 1st. rafferty and tryamkin and rathbone can replace him with more offense and grit  our dcorp will be much diff next yr 

 

 edler myers

hughes tryamkin 

juolevi rathbone 

benn rafferty 

 

looks like a decent dcorp i really dont see tanev or stecher being on team next yr  trades will happen as for cap space i see one of motte or leivo being traded and baertchi or eriksson  mutually terminating contract. 

Tanev won't be a hot enough commodity for someone to trade for his rights. Rathbone is an LD. I agree that it's unlikely we have Tanev and Stecher here next year unless neither ask for raises or even a pay cut. Leivo is UFA, so he likely walks. Keep Motte. LE mutually terminating his contract is a dream.

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2 hours ago, Alflives said:

Your post ain’t confusing.  I understand completely, but totally disagree.  The Myers contract is fair.  LE will retire after his July 2020 bonus.  He’s already made a gentleman’s agreement with JB to do that.  LE is saving face now that he’s contributing.  He will retire in July, and go out with a better reputation 

AlfNews. Source of "gentleman's agreement?"

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2 hours ago, Alflives said:

Your post ain’t confusing.  I understand completely, but totally disagree.  The Myers contract is fair.  LE will retire after his July 2020 bonus.  He’s already made a gentleman’s agreement with JB to do that.  LE is saving face now that he’s contributing.  He will retire in July, and go out with a better reputation 

How do you know this?

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4 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

AlfNews. Source of "gentleman's agreement?"

You can’t ask for that ! The agreement is between gentlemen and as gentlemen it’s their prerogative to keep it on the down low. My only confusion is that since Alf is privy to this information, must we now consider him a gentleman as well?

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1 minute ago, Where's Wellwood said:

What is this Love affair with Motte? His underlying numbers are weak and he doesn't have the offensive upside of Leivo. 

 

Why Motte over Leivo?

Reverse the argument. What's the love affair with Leivo?

I'm pretty sure the team will survive without either of them. But of the two Motte never takes a shift off.

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4 minutes ago, Where's Wellwood said:

What is this Love affair with Motte? His underlying numbers are weak and he doesn't have the offensive upside of Leivo. 

 

Why Motte over Leivo?

Motte is heart and soul. Numbers aren't everything. Ever since he came back from injury, he has been driving that 4th line and making everyone play better on it. Also, he would demand less money than Leivo.

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4 minutes ago, Rounoush said:

Motte is heart and soul. Numbers aren't everything. Ever since he came back from injury, he has been driving that 4th line and making everyone play better on it. Also, he would demand less money than Leivo.

Exactly.  I believe it was Green himself that said Motte is the driver of that 4th line.  He makes that line what it is, so that alone makes Motte better bang for the buck than Leivo.

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3 hours ago, Alflives said:

Your post ain’t confusing.  I understand completely, but totally disagree.  The Myers contract is fair.  LE will retire after his July 2020 bonus.  He’s already made a gentleman’s agreement with JB to do that.  LE is saving face now that he’s contributing.  He will retire in July, and go out with a better reputation 

I missed you Alf!   While he may not retire, he is owed almost nothing in salary and is an attractive option for a team near the floor next two seasons after this and I expect him to be moved just for that reason (to a team with cap space).    Canucks will have to sweeten and now that they have depth in Utica they can do just that.    Could be a package with Baer and a decent prospect like a Madden or similar.    

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1 hour ago, HKSR said:

Yeah I think the bonuses will be $1.7M (max Schedule A for both Petey and Huggy, I don't think Gaudette will hit any of his Schedule A).  Petey won't hit the Schedule B bonuses this year unless he goes on a complete tear the rest of the season.

 

The odd man out will likely be Stecher.  Bringing back Tryamkin, but losing Stecher is a wash on cap hit though... so I dunno if Tryamkin is in the plans.

The number that has been bandied about is $3.7 million meaning one of them hits a Schedule B bonus.  We don’t know the details of their contracts, but schedule B bonuses are paid by the league and don’t count towards the cap... but a team can apply its own bonus compensation to any of them up to $2 million dollars.  On high end prospects they tend to make that extra $2 million easy to earn as it it really the only place in an ELC with room to negotiate.  Presumably with his production, Hughes is going to hit his $2 million in Team negotiated Schedule B bonuses.

 

So, to the OPs calculation, if you take basically all that $3.7 Million pushed into next year; add back in Baertschi’s contract which disappeared; and assume a very low cap ceiling increase (after the December BOG meeting GMs were quoted as sayings they are working with an assumption of a $82.5-83.5 cap next year, so theee can’t have been glowing news.

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3 hours ago, theo5789 said:

Did you take into account the bonus overages? I'm not sure Baertschi's cap simply disappears, we may have to retain or buy him out or pay an asset to move him.

 

I'm not that worried about the cap either, but can't ignore those things.

https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2017/10/7/16438232/toronto-maple-leafs-have-made-roster-decisions-because-of-ltir-and-bonus-rules-salary-cap

 

Read this to clarify bonus overages and why it won't effect the Canucks. They have had someone on LTIR all season

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Some premises I can agree with:  Gaudette on a 2x 2m 'show me', Virtanen for 3.5m (he's not getting more than Pearson). However, Benn just listed as 'gone', as in not traded or bought out is a curious thing, likewise with Baertschi. Maybe these guys terminate (why would they?), but otherwise a trade or buyout which would reflect on the cap regardless. 

 

I share the opinion of some others, that Tanev won't be brought back. It's a durability thing, and we can't afford him. 

 

The perceived cap issues are real. Not in the sense that we won't be able to keep our core, but that we won't improve. Even with your optimistic outlook, you're still ignoring ELC bonuses, of which Hughes and Petey will certainly hit. Our dead cap in Baertschi, Luongo, Spooner, Sutter and possibly Ferland will continue to hurt us. Motte gets another contract, you don't walk away from his effort. 1.5m maybe.

 

It's likely that we'll have guys make the jump from Utica on friendly contracts. Rafferty is making 700k next year on a one-way, which would fit nicely on our D. Juolevi has improved of late. If we're keeping Stecher it would be from a QO of his current contract (+15%) for a value of 2.65m. Bring back Fantenberg cheaply, 1.5m maybe?

 

We have to bring back Markstrom, 6m tops. Give him term if we have to. 

 

Anyways, just did the numbers and that would put us at 81.6m (100k over the upper limit, without accounting for bonus overages). I don't think any of the contracts are outlandish. That all said, we take a hit on D by losing Tanev and introducing 2 rookies replace him. The rest of the roster we merely keep, and don't improve upon. 

 

captest.thumb.jpg.e134af4adee04bdb74693f0d18b69f9a.jpg

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3 minutes ago, Provost said:

The number that has been bandied about is $3.7 million meaning one of them hits a Schedule B bonus.  We don’t know the details of their contracts, but schedule B bonuses are paid by the league and don’t count towards the cap... but a team can apply its own bonus compensation to any of them up to $2 million dollars.  On high end prospects they tend to make that extra $2 million easy to earn as it it really the only place in an ELC with room to negotiate.  Presumably with his production, Hughes is going to hit his $2 million in Team negotiated Schedule B bonuses.

https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2017/10/7/16438232/toronto-maple-leafs-have-made-roster-decisions-because-of-ltir-and-bonus-rules-salary-cap

 

Read this for explanation on bonus overages 

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2 minutes ago, Ossi Vaananen said:

Some premises I can agree with:  Gaudette on a 2x 2m 'show me', Virtanen for 3.5m (he's not getting more than Pearson). However, Benn just listed as 'gone', as in not traded or bought out is a curious thing, likewise with Baertschi. Maybe these guys terminate (why would they?), but otherwise a trade or buyout which would reflect on the cap regardless. 

 

I share the opinion of some others, that Tanev won't be brought back. It's a durability thing, and we can't afford him. 

 

The perceived cap issues are real. Not in the sense that we won't be able to keep our core, but that we won't improve. Even with your optimistic outlook, you're still ignoring ELC bonuses, of which Hughes and Petey will certainly hit. Our dead cap in Baertschi, Luongo, Spooner, Sutter and possibly Ferland will continue to hurt us. Motte gets another contract, you don't walk away from his effort. 1.5m maybe.

 

It's likely that we'll have guys make the jump from Utica on friendly contracts. Rafferty is making 700k next year on a one-way, which would fit nicely on our D. Juolevi has improved of late. If we're keeping Stecher it would be from a QO of his current contract (+15%) for a value of 2.65m. Bring back Fantenberg cheaply, 1.5m maybe?

 

We have to bring back Markstrom, 6m tops. Give him term if we have to. 

 

Anyways, just did the numbers and that would put us at 81.6m (100k over the upper limit, without accounting for bonus overages). I don't think any of the contracts are outlandish. That all said, we take a hit on D by losing Tanev and introducing 2 rookies replace him. The rest of the roster we merely keep, and don't improve upon. 

 

captest.thumb.jpg.e134af4adee04bdb74693f0d18b69f9a.jpg

Read this for explanation on bonus overages

https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2017/10/7/16438232/toronto-maple-leafs-have-made-roster-decisions-because-of-ltir-and-bonus-rules-salary-cap

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2 minutes ago, Provost said:

The number that has been bandied about is $3.7 million meaning one of them hits a Schedule B bonus.  We don’t know the details of their contracts, but schedule B bonuses are paid by the league and don’t count towards the cap... but a team can apply its own bonus compensation to any of them up to $2 million dollars.  On high end prospects they tend to make that extra $2 million easy to earn as it it really the only place in an ELC with room to negotiate.  Presumably with his production, Hughes is going to hit his $2 million in Team negotiated Schedule B bonuses.

The $3.7M bandied about is if Petey and Huggy hit maximum bonuses ($850k x 2 + $2M for Petey).  Check out the CBA document Exhibit 5 on page 327.  Schedule B bonuses are specifically defined and can be a mix of club and league compensation.

 

Petey won't be hitting his schedule B bonuses unless he gets really hot for the rest of the season.

 

Huggy doesn't have Schedule B bonuses in his contract structure.

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