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hockeygod77

team toughness going into the stretch

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2 hours ago, aGENT said:

Motte, while smaller, is far more physical.

well.... OK then. Maybe he's amped it up a bit in the AHL. 

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2 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

well.... OK then. Maybe he's amped it up a bit in the AHL. 

It's just simply not his play style.

 

Really, if you take away the 'weird dude' component, Booth's actually a decent comparable (*play style only), whether you like it or not :lol: Their both VERY good skaters, decent size (though not overly physical), good shots, half decent 2 way play etc... 

 

I'd be fine to have picked up a free, middle 6, Booth comparable, minus the 'weird dude-ness' myself, if that's what he can be.

 

Hopefully we'll find out soon if Bailey can translate that to this level or not. Thus far, he's struggled at it on his previous teams.

 

IF he can add any/all of: physicality, better defensive play or more, consistent offense at this level, he'll be a shoe in. I hope he gets a shot with Roussel/Gaudette some time in the next couple weeks to get a better idea of that.

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5 hours ago, oldnews said:

that's a good question.

 

on the matter of who is, all-things-considered more effective at this point, it would be an interesting calculation.  I think the shutdown aspect of Horvat's line might take a hit with that deal, but they do have other players that could step up in a secondary scoring role and dedicate two Sutter and Beagle lines to shutdown....assuming they remain healthy.  (sidenote - Motte is a serious loss to the team's shutdown effectiveness imo).

 

But I would make that deal in a heartbeat - because Backes expires a year earlier (and I would value that cap hit in two years moreso than LE's possible on-ice impact) - so I would not be surprised if 'we' had to add to make that happen - that is unless Boston sees a viable role for LE in their lineup and would prefer live vs dead cap. 

 

 

mottes easily replaced by macewen give him a chance 

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I think team toughness isnt necessarily about fighting. Its about Dishing out the hits, getting hit and being able to respond when needed. Dont let your team mates get pushed around.

in 2011 there wasnt a lot of fighting in our playoff run. There was however big hits on both sides. There was rough play in front and behind the net. There was scrums, face washes, rat punches, finger biting, and wow some very exciting hockey.

Being team tough means you can withstand the grind the playoff tournament dishes out. Survival more than fighting. Not being afraid to go to the net. Not being afraid to go in the corners. Not being afraid because the guy you are skating against is bigger than you. Getting hit and then getting right back up. We don't need a dozen enforcers, we just need each player to play bigger than they are.

the only questions i have are who is this seasons Raffi Torres? Who is this seasons Maxime Lapierre? yes the game has changed but the playoffs still require survival. You give and get. Everyone plays hurt in the playoffs.

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We are just fine.

 

Most of our players are gritty and/or big. Yes, there are a couple of chinks in that armour, but it is hard to ice a team with -every- player being so. I can't think of a team that does, actually. The only guy I see a real problem with is Stecher, and he tends to be very resilient. Tanev is fine. Quinn skates around guys. Petey plays bigger than he is when he wants to. Eriksson isn't a physical threat at all, but he can play with some fervor when he decides to.

 

Our size even extends to our backups like Macewan and Benn. Tryamkin could in theory be back as well which would basically makes the concern moot in itself.

 

Ferland will be back - which will be huge. Even our other injured guys have size and/or grit.

 

Do we have a heavyweight fighter? Not really. Do we need one in today's NHL? Not really.

 

It has probably said that we also now have the depth to cover the inevitable injuries that will occur. That's also huge that we don't have to insert some plug in such events.

 

In fact, I would say we are better than fine. There are lots of playoff teams out there -far- more in need than ours.

 

Bring on the playoffs.

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2 hours ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

I would enjoy it if Horvat became a Mikko Koivu clone or, if we are lucky, a Brind’amour. An Joel Otto is too much to ask. 

 

Horvat hasn't necessarily disappointed me, but I was hoping he’d lead the charge in physicality, especially to set the tone in the heavy games.

He’s done no such thing.  

Wonder if it’s a coaching thing. Every time a physical player comes to Vancouver, they all of a sudden don’t do anything physically. Ferland was a rare execution, even though he’s barely played.

 

We might be able to win a Playoff series this year, but we won’t survive. Calgary, Edmonton, Vegas would destroy us physically.

 

Maybe Green still mad over the Cloutier beating 

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9 hours ago, hockeygod77 said:

as the games get tighter the team as a whole will get tested for being able to push back when teams try and expose canuck defence...certain teams will try to take advantage..the canucks will have to be aggressive in clearing the net and when the rough stuff starts they need to be smart about it...taking  one for the team is hard but it could mean a win...but also the canucks will have to draw a line when they will have to drop the gloves to show teams they wont get pushed around...i think the forwards have show this already..the defence has too but other teams have to be let known the canucks wont put up with any cheap shots...smart hockey will be the key..

I think the Canucks have a tough enough team already to be honest.   Hopefully, a healthy Ferland and a returning Tryamkin can help us in this area over these next few months.

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1 hour ago, mikeyman109 said:

I think team toughness isnt necessarily about fighting. Its about Dishing out the hits, getting hit and being able to respond when needed. Dont let your team mates get pushed around.

in 2011 there wasnt a lot of fighting in our playoff run. There was however big hits on both sides. There was rough play in front and behind the net. There was scrums, face washes, rat punches, finger biting, and wow some very exciting hockey.

Being team tough means you can withstand the grind the playoff tournament dishes out. Survival more than fighting. Not being afraid to go to the net. Not being afraid to go in the corners. Not being afraid because the guy you are skating against is bigger than you. Getting hit and then getting right back up. We don't need a dozen enforcers, we just need each player to play bigger than they are.

the only questions i have are who is this seasons Raffi Torres? Who is this seasons Maxime Lapierre? yes the game has changed but the playoffs still require survival. You give and get. Everyone plays hurt in the playoffs.

This is exactly it. Good post Milkeyman. Petey is a perfect example of what is needed. He is in no stretch of the imagination going to win any fight but he sure as h3LL not going to let anyone intimidate him off his play. Same as Bure did on Churla. The big hits are needed to keep the fast, skilled opposition players in check. It drives me crazy when a P. Kane type player is allowed to skate around with that "swagger" because he knows no one is going to paste him up on the boards.

The other thing is that we have the ability to endure whatever gets dished to us. The San Jose game was a good example of them trying to get tough with us and we were able to stick up for ourselves. 

Having our star players sticking up for themselves and not turtle, goes a long way if you want to inspire your team and want your team to follow you to a championship. 

So far, our stars seem capable of that.

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4 hours ago, J-23 said:

Wonder if it’s a coaching thing. Every time a physical player comes to Vancouver, they all of a sudden don’t do anything physically. Ferland was a rare execution, even though he’s barely played.

 

We might be able to win a Playoff series this year, but we won’t survive. Calgary, Edmonton, Vegas would destroy us physically.

 

Maybe Green still mad over the Cloutier beating 

Calgary?  Edmonton?...are you kidding me... those turtles and kittens can’t carry the Canucks jockeys. 

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13 hours ago, hockeygod77 said:

as the games get tighter the team as a whole will get tested for being able to push back when teams try and expose canuck defence...certain teams will try to take advantage..the canucks will have to be aggressive in clearing the net and when the rough stuff starts they need to be smart about it...taking  one for the team is hard but it could mean a win...but also the canucks will have to draw a line when they will have to drop the gloves to show teams they wont get pushed around...i think the forwards have show this already..the defence has too but other teams have to be let known the canucks wont put up with any cheap shots...smart hockey will be the key..

I thought most people caught that Benning said he noticed that so was it such a shock that he picked up Rous and Schaller the season before followed up by this year and the off season signing of Myers to replace Guds as in an upgrade with skill and then signed Benn... This should not be a surprise especially since the "Twin" beatings happened on a regular basis and so what choice did he have but get more size and grit to protect flow and alien, and adding to overall team toughness.

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6 hours ago, mikeyman109 said:

I think team toughness isnt necessarily about fighting. Its about Dishing out the hits, getting hit and being able to respond when needed. Dont let your team mates get pushed around.

in 2011 there wasnt a lot of fighting in our playoff run. There was however big hits on both sides. There was rough play in front and behind the net. There was scrums, face washes, rat punches, finger biting, and wow some very exciting hockey.

Being team tough means you can withstand the grind the playoff tournament dishes out. Survival more than fighting. Not being afraid to go to the net. Not being afraid to go in the corners. Not being afraid because the guy you are skating against is bigger than you. Getting hit and then getting right back up. We don't need a dozen enforcers, we just need each player to play bigger than they are.

the only questions i have are who is this seasons Raffi Torres? Who is this seasons Maxime Lapierre? yes the game has changed but the playoffs still require survival. You give and get. Everyone plays hurt in the playoffs.

Raffi Torres may be Virtanen but less dirty. More likely to be Ferland though if he returns healthy.

 

Lapierre is Roussel for the pest side of things, but I would say more like Beagle in terms of their roles.

 

I'm more curious as to who the unexpected heroes would be. Who's going to score the clutch goals? Who's going to get that goal off the stanchion? Virtanen seems like another prime candidate here. Myers might be another. Maybe LE will score a series winner (or at least bury a game with an empty netter) and we can all stop talking about how he's a waste of cap space.

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3 hours ago, spur1 said:

Calgary?  Edmonton?...are you kidding me... those turtles and kittens can’t carry the Canucks jockeys. 

Still play far more physical than us. Throw hits, not afraid to fight, and stick up for each other. We may be better than them, but they will eat us alive when it comes to the physical play.

 

If Tkachuk threw the Kassian hits on one of ours, the team would do nothing. Maybe Tanev would have a talk with him.

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9 hours ago, J-23 said:

Wonder if it’s a coaching thing. Every time a physical player comes to Vancouver, they all of a sudden don’t do anything physically. Ferland was a rare execution, even though he’s barely played.

 

We might be able to win a Playoff series this year, but we won’t survive. Calgary, Edmonton, Vegas would destroy us physically.

 

Maybe Green still mad over the Cloutier beating 

Is it that the stop playing physical or are afraid to be physical because of the way the league seems to really punish the Canucks for stuff that other teams don't?

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3 hours ago, jmfaminoff said:

Is it that the stop playing physical or are afraid to be physical because of the way the league seems to really punish the Canucks for stuff that other teams don't?

Hard to get punished by the league for sticking up for teammates. If we get punished for that sort of stuff, so be it, rather go down with some heart.

 

Physical play is dying in the league, lack of team toughness is not only a Canuck problems, it’s starting to become a league problem.

 

Disgusting imo. Letting players shoot after whistles, not clearing the net, not sticking up for your teammates, etc. This generation of players is just not about it. I could care less about the fights and line brawls, but I don’t like it when a guy like Motte gets hit like that and there is no response.

 

The game isn’t like it was years ago, but teams will still take advantage of a soft team come Playoff time.

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8 hours ago, theo5789 said:

Raffi Torres may be Virtanen but less dirty. More likely to be Ferland though if he returns healthy.

 

Lapierre is Roussel for the pest side of things, but I would say more like Beagle in terms of their roles.

 

I'm more curious as to who the unexpected heroes would be. Who's going to score the clutch goals? Who's going to get that goal off the stanchion? Virtanen seems like another prime candidate here. Myers might be another. Maybe LE will score a series winner (or at least bury a game with an empty netter) and we can all stop talking about how he's a waste of cap space.

Virtanen may be that guy. Horvat is another i'd like to see in the playoffs and see what we get.

The Beagles, Sutters, Mottes, even Schaller and Eriksson if they can stay healthy through the playoffs will play a bigger role. The thing about the playoffs is your depth is tested. Injuries happen. Players play hurt and can be either just as effective , or not as effective. In 2011 9 D men played in the season and playoffs. we will need that depth still. Benn although he hasn't played much lately will be needed.

The one big advantage the Canucks have is their age. younger players tend to heal faster, get hurt less often, and recover from tough games better than an aging team. Making the playoffs this year will give us a very good read on what we still need and what we don't.

Its also a very good measuring stick on who you should spend the cap money on , and who you will give a pass to.

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14 hours ago, DarkIndianRises said:

I think the Canucks have a tough enough team already to be honest.   Hopefully, a healthy Ferland and a returning Tryamkin can help us in this area over these next few months.

Tryamkin is not allowed to play any games this year ... the soonest we will see anything of him is in next training camp.  Ferland should be back before the playoffs start - just hope he's not one hit away from an early retirement... however I think we have enough toughness in the lineup compared to most teams to do alright...the league is way different then it used to be...McEwen might be a good call up if things get rough..

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13 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Tryamkin is not allowed to play any games this year ... the soonest we will see anything of him is in next training camp.  Ferland should be back before the playoffs start - just hope he's not one hit away from an early retirement... however I think we have enough toughness in the lineup compared to most teams to do alright...the league is way different then it used to be...McEwen might be a good call up if things get rough..

Where did you hear this? I must've missed it.

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1 hour ago, mikeyman109 said:

Virtanen may be that guy. Horvat is another i'd like to see in the playoffs and see what we get.

The Beagles, Sutters, Mottes, even Schaller and Eriksson if they can stay healthy through the playoffs will play a bigger role. The thing about the playoffs is your depth is tested. Injuries happen. Players play hurt and can be either just as effective , or not as effective. In 2011 9 D men played in the season and playoffs. we will need that depth still. Benn although he hasn't played much lately will be needed.

The one big advantage the Canucks have is their age. younger players tend to heal faster, get hurt less often, and recover from tough games better than an aging team. Making the playoffs this year will give us a very good read on what we still need and what we don't.

Its also a very good measuring stick on who you should spend the cap money on , and who you will give a pass to.

We have seen a glimpse of Horvat in the playoffs and he was nearly a PPG guy. Can't wait to see this version of Horvat in the playoffs. Many of us have been saying Jake is more valuable in the playoffs, so can't wait to see how he performs too.

 

Benning has said that he wants to see this team in the playoffs to gauge the team, so he's certainly hoping to get a look to assess. Also getting into the playoffs and going as far as possible helps lower the 1st that we gave up for Miller to hopefully end the whole nonsense worrying about us giving up a lottery pick next year.

 

As for the topic, we have the size to handle the playoffs. We just don't need to play that aggressive style as that hasn't been our game and not what has been successful for us (the fact that we may even make the playoffs), so I don't expect us to change. A slight uptick in intensity, but a more controlled emotion game and staying focused.

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1 hour ago, theo5789 said:

We have seen a glimpse of Horvat in the playoffs and he was nearly a PPG guy. Can't wait to see this version of Horvat in the playoffs. Many of us have been saying Jake is more valuable in the playoffs, so can't wait to see how he performs too.

 

Benning has said that he wants to see this team in the playoffs to gauge the team, so he's certainly hoping to get a look to assess. Also getting into the playoffs and going as far as possible helps lower the 1st that we gave up for Miller to hopefully end the whole nonsense worrying about us giving up a lottery pick next year.

 

As for the topic, we have the size to handle the playoffs. We just don't need to play that aggressive style as that hasn't been our game and not what has been successful for us (the fact that we may even make the playoffs), so I don't expect us to change. A slight uptick in intensity, but a more controlled emotion game and staying focused.

I think this is a key component, when a Petey or a Motte gets roughed up, maybe we don't brawl with them but we at least let them know we are not happy with the play. A happy medium has to be found there somewhere.

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