Biasbieksa Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 (edited) I dislike when people make the poor goaltending or defense argument. Wayne Gretzky and EVERYBODY ELSE had the same poor goaltending and bad defense to score on. You know what? If it was so easy, why didn't everybody score at the same pace as Gretzky? They didn't because WG was so much further ahead of everybody at the time. Edited February 1, 2020 by Biasbieksa 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 (edited) Jagr missed 1 full lockout season and 2 other shortened seasons. He also spent 3 of his most productive years Europe while he was averaging almost 36 goals a season. He did much of his best work in what is considered the "dead puck era too" Just saying, if we're going to do this, we need to understand Jagr gave up his chance to supplant Gretzky as best Goalscorer and break the 2000 point mark. Just saying Edited February 1, 2020 by Warhippy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 Ovie may get the record for most goals, but Mike Bossy was the best goal scorer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westcoasting Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 1 minute ago, gurn said: Ovie may get the record for most goals, but Mike Bossy was the best goal scorer. Now we are talking!! Totally agree as someone who was around in the 70's i really believe he was the best goal scorer ever. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 (edited) 16 minutes ago, gurn said: Ovie may get the record for most goals, but Mike Bossy was the best goal scorer. I actually want to agree but I always question how effective the most prolific scoring threats of the 70s and 80s would have looked against the modern goalie. Never forget Giguere and Brodeur 2003 SCF....they looked like walls in net Goalies, 1970s through 1980s vs Goalies 2000-2010s Edited February 1, 2020 by Warhippy 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 goalies are better today, but so are the shooters, and the composite/flex stick is a major 'assist" to goal scoring. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostsof1915 Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 7 hours ago, jmfaminoff said: I am not a big OV fan but I think he is the best pure goal scorer in the league. While he has benefited from the way the game is played today, I think he would have done very well with the way the game was played in WG's day. I like that he is not afraid of the rough stuff and will lay someone out with a body check. Cuddos. There would be a possibility he'd beat Wayne's records, because he is far more fit. He's a lot like Mario Lemieux. Size, skill, and speed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westcoasting Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 33 minutes ago, Warhippy said: I actually want to agree but I always question how effective the most prolific scoring threats of the 70s and 80s would have looked against the modern goalie. Never forget Giguere and Brodeur 2003 SCF....they looked like walls in net Goalies, 1970s through 1980s vs Goalies 2000-2010s I had a picture on here a few years ago that showed Patrick Roy as a rookie, then as a member of the Avalanche... he was literally like twice as wide with all the extra over sized equipment on!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockey God Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en-us/articles/letter-to-my-younger-self-mike-bossy https://www.nhl.com/news/mike-bossy-100-greatest-nhl-hockey-players/c-284854900 Sorry, Mike Bossy was better, and it's not even close. Remember reading these articles a few years back, and they just reinforced that Mike was a goal scorer's goal scorer with a driven mentality. He is one of the few players from the 70s and 80s who, if you put him into the modern era of hockey, would still dominate, and probably dominate even more and for longer given the lack of hack and slash in today's game compared to his time. Another 10 years of Mike, scoring 40-60 per year? It wouldn't even be close, Mike would be #1 in goal scoring by a wide margin, and no one would catch him. He had extremely fast hands, and a devastating wrist shot, and was deceptively strong. The man was a freak, and while you can't really compare players in different eras, being a freakish talent translates into any era. Ovie is good, but Prime Bossy in today's NHL would have been better. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westcoasting Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 8 hours ago, gurn said: goalies are better today, but so are the shooters, and the composite/flex stick is a major 'assist" to goal scoring. Fact for sure! Much like golf clubs and the effect they have on the golf game. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownUndaCanuck Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 Obviously one of the best pure goal scorers in the league, especially given the era, but he won't come close to Gretzky. We'll never know how he would have done playing in that era but no one has come close to what WG did yet and it'll be a while before anyone does, when you consider consistency and points compared to the league average. There's a reason 99 was retired leage-wide and not many other numbers will be. Ovi and Crosby have obviously been consistent, but never scored that much higher than the league average. Even what McDavid is doing now isn't close to Gretzky's prime days. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 4 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said: but no one has come close to what WG did ye Mario. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Man Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 23 hours ago, Hockey God said: https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en-us/articles/letter-to-my-younger-self-mike-bossy https://www.nhl.com/news/mike-bossy-100-greatest-nhl-hockey-players/c-284854900 Sorry, Mike Bossy was better, and it's not even close. Remember reading these articles a few years back, and they just reinforced that Mike was a goal scorer's goal scorer with a driven mentality. He is one of the few players from the 70s and 80s who, if you put him into the modern era of hockey, would still dominate, and probably dominate even more and for longer given the lack of hack and slash in today's game compared to his time. Another 10 years of Mike, scoring 40-60 per year? It wouldn't even be close, Mike would be #1 in goal scoring by a wide margin, and no one would catch him. He had extremely fast hands, and a devastating wrist shot, and was deceptively strong. The man was a freak, and while you can't really compare players in different eras, being a freakish talent translates into any era. Ovie is good, but Prime Bossy in today's NHL would have been better. I was so hated him for that goal... Amazing player he was. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Colt 45s Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 On 2/1/2020 at 5:41 AM, Biasbieksa said: I dislike when people make the poor goaltending or defense argument. Wayne Gretzky and EVERYBODY ELSE had the same poor goaltending and bad defense to score on. You know what? If it was so easy, why didn't everybody score at the same pace as Gretzky? They didn't because WG was so much further ahead of everybody at the time. Wayne could saucer pass really well. He would sit behind the net and wait things out until the time was right. Awkward spot for the D because they had to have their head on a swivel. But the D were afraid to physically challenge him because it meant having to deal with The Code. There was a price to pay to hit him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Colt 45s Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 On 2/2/2020 at 12:52 PM, Silent Man said: I was so hated him for that goal... Amazing player he was. I think if we could have had Pavel Bure playing today, he would be right up there leading the league in scoring. Especially since the league has taken the molestation, clutching and grabbing, and stick work out of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 Showing no signs of slowing down. Anyone's guess when time finally catches up with him. Hoping he does it; I consider myself lucky to have seen him play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHL rocks Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 GOAT 6'3 235 lbs. 3rd in NHL in hits since he's been in league 3000+ hits. Only Dustin Brown and Clutterbuck have more hits. OV will pass them both and be #1 before he retires. Only 17 games missed due to injury in 15 seasons.... Amazing..... especially considering how physical he plays. No sign of slowing down. He'll surely score 900+ before he retires. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHL rocks Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 (edited) On 2/2/2020 at 6:31 AM, DownUndaCanuck said: Obviously one of the best pure goal scorers in the league, especially given the era, but he won't come close to Gretzky. We'll never know how he would have done playing in that era but no one has come close to what WG did yet and it'll be a while before anyone does, when you consider consistency and points compared to the league average. There's a reason 99 was retired leage-wide and not many other numbers will be. Ovi and Crosby have obviously been consistent, but never scored that much higher than the league average. Even what McDavid is doing now isn't close to Gretzky's prime days. Since OV been in NHL there have been 22 50 goal players. That's about 1.5 per year. Out of those 8 times it was OV with 50. Four times OV was only one to score 50 goals. OV has 8 and by end of season wll have 9 50 goal seasons During Gretzky's career there were on average 7.5 50 goal players per season. One season there were 10 50 goal players. Gretzky has 9 50 goal season. OV will tie him soon and likely get atleast one more 50 goal season for top spot with 10. I watched Gretzky play at the old PNE Colosseum and Rogers Place. I flew to Toronto to watch Gretzky play his last game in Canada at the old Maple Leafs Garden. It was his 9th or 10th last game of his career. A young Dan Cloutier was in net for the Rangers. Got shelled for like 6 or 7 goals. I love Gretzky. But OV is the greatest goal scorer in history allready. Just look at the goalie's size and their skill and equipment vs back then. OV is simply the greatest. Edited February 5, 2020 by WHL rocks 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyCuddles Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 I said this like 2 seasons ago. Ovi is the greatest goal scorer of all time. At this point he is just widening the gap between him and every one else. Wayne's stats, he even said himself, don't exist today. All you need is two eyes and one clip of goalies from the 90s and beyond to realize how piss poor defense and goalies were 30 years ago. It's night and day how much the game has improved in terms of team's ability to play defense and goalies evolving at a ridiculous level. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassbs Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 On 2/1/2020 at 6:41 AM, Biasbieksa said: I dislike when people make the poor goaltending or defense argument. Wayne Gretzky and EVERYBODY ELSE had the same poor goaltending and bad defense to score on. You know what? If it was so easy, why didn't everybody score at the same pace as Gretzky? They didn't because WG was so much further ahead of everybody at the time. 100% agree. Also, let’s not forget one thing. Yes the era was much different but so was the training. Imagine Gretzky on a strict diet and training regiment that the players of today are accustomed too. Gretzky’s pre game meal consisted of hotdogs and a can of coke! Imagine Gretzky with a composite hockey stick! Gretzky also scored 122 points in the 90’s era hockey where Elblows to the head and open ice head shots were considered solid hits! Not to mention clutch and grab. im leaving now bye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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