J.I.A.H.N Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 5 hours ago, jammin_jk said: I actually never said your opinion was stupid if you read the context. I actually said trading Eriksson for a first or second + prospect is stupid. However, I would say (in my opinion) your view that someone may take on Eriksson without leveraging our terrible cap situation (ie. demanding a prospect or pick or player) may be false. Marleau is still a serviceable player but it took a first to get him out of Toronto. No team is going to take your problems just because the actual dollar values are low when his cap hit is so high. Ottawa can find MANY other ways of hitting the cap floor and make their team better than picking up Eriksson (even if the owner doesn't want to spend $ to the cap floor). BUFFALO -- The Detroit Red Wings cleared the salary-cap charge of Pavel Datsyuk by trading him and the 16th pick in the 2016 NHL Draft to the Arizona Coyotes on Friday. The trade was announced during the first round of the draft at First Niagara Center. "It's huge," Holland told The Detroit News. "It's $7.5 million; every day we were looking. There were a lot of different teams, more than I expected, with a lot of different scenarios. But in some cases, obviously, they wanted to move bad contracts. "I was OK waiting until July 1 (the start of free agency), but we were going to have to play a steeper price. But I didn't want to pay a lot of assets. "A deal has to be a win-win. It was a deal both sides are happy with." Detroit received the 20th pick and 53rd pick in the draft, and forward Joe Vitale. ------------------------------------------------ Note that Datsyuk never played a game for Arizona So it was Datsyuk cap hit + Detroits 16th for Arizona's 20th + 53rd, plus Joe Vitale (throw in)…..that is a wash! So, don't say it doesn't happen...………….. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTramFan Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 I believe JB will trade Eriksson prior to the last season of his contract. It will cost VAN some picks or prospects but this will clear $6m. Edler and Pearson will also not be resigned when their contracts end. Clearing another $9.75m. These will be the main moves to provide the cap space to sign Pettersson to a long term deal of about $10m AAV, and to sign Hughes to a bridge deal worth around $6m AAV. There are also a bunch of ELC's coming through that will be used to reduce the overall cap of the roster, such as Hoglander, Podkolzin, Juolevi, Rathbone, Rafferty, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTramFan Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 On 2/5/2020 at 2:58 PM, coastal.view said: i see that you assume joulevi will never make the nuck team ? i kinda think he has to next season and will be added unless he incurs another major injury they have to find out what they have in this prospect Realistically Juolevi may not make the team. Or maybe he could beat out Fantenberg next training camp. Or perhaps he may be back in Utica and be recalled as depth in 2020/21. Either way makes no difference to the point I was making, which was that the Canucks will be able to ice a competitive roster with cap hit of less than $80m with relative ease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTramFan Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 On 2/5/2020 at 1:54 PM, qwijibo said: Your salary estimates seem extremely optimistic. Which salary estimates do you think are extremely optimistic? And what do you think would be a more realistic amount for that player? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammin_jk Posted February 7, 2020 Author Share Posted February 7, 2020 17 hours ago, Where's Wellwood said: Adding a new player that makes 2 million plus would be a net negative. We could just replace Eriksson with someone already on the roster, like Leivo (who already makes 1.5) So it becomes 2019-2020: Eriksson 6 million Leivo 1.5 million = 7.5 million In the 2021-2022 season: Eriksson 4 million (buyout) Leivo 3 million (assume his salary DOUBLES, which it might not) = 7 million. Still a savings. Or either Hoglander, Lind, Podkolzin, etc may be a low cost borderline 2nd line option by then. Not sure you're understanding... if we buyout Eriksson he is no longer on our roster so he needs to be replaced by another player... Here's the example: Don't buy him out = $6 million against the cap Buy him out = $4 million against the cap but need to fill the roster spot he leaves (so add Leivo at $2 million for example)... that also equals $6 million (basically replacing Eriksson with Leivo) What you're not understanding is that buying him out creates an extra "one player hole" on our roster that must be filled (replacing him is the cost of the buyout + the player you replace him with) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammin_jk Posted February 7, 2020 Author Share Posted February 7, 2020 15 hours ago, janisahockeynut said: Zach Werenski…………...3 years @ $5.000 per Josh Morrisey...…………..8 years @ $6.250 per Ivan Provorov…………….6 years @ $6.750 per Charlie McAvoy...………..3 years @ $4.900 per Thomas Chabot...………..8 years @ $8.000 per That is all the young Dman that are peers of Hughes...………….notice the bridges are all low, and none of the 8 year contracts are any where close to 10 Million Travis Konechny………...6 years @ 5.500 per Brock Boeser…………….3 years @ 5.875 per Braydon Point...………….3 years @ 6.750 per Matt Tkatuck……………...3 years @ 7.00 per Patrick Laine...…………...2 years @ 6.750 per Mikko Rantanen………….6 years @ 9.250 per Kyle Connor...…………….7 years @ 7.142 per Nico Hischier……………..7 years @ 7.250 per That is since September, 2019...………….6 months ago! Yes, you are right about Mariner and Mathews, but these guys are more in line with the norm. Notice when you get closer to 100 point seasons, the pay goes up. As much as I love Pettersson and Hughes...……...they sit well with my quoted contracts, IMO Tell me a single D-man on that list you'd trade for Hughes and a single forward you'd trade for Pettersson and I'd love to be the GM to take Pettersson and Hughes off your hands. They are better than any of those you listed already... and younger. Brayden Point and Rantanen are the closest but they are on elite teams and their linemates are inflating their stats... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammin_jk Posted February 7, 2020 Author Share Posted February 7, 2020 15 hours ago, janisahockeynut said: Because of Eriksson's terrible contract and his play for the first 3 1/2 years, he was untradeable...…...no argument But our team fortunes have change, as has Eriksson's play, and he has shown to be a valuable player in a restrictive way. He is a decent PKer and a very dependable defensive player, as shown by Green's use of him in the last minutes of close games. Is he worth 6 Million, hell no! Is he worth 2.5 million per year, with a 6 million cap hit? Well, probably getting pretty close! Some might argue we should get something back.... If all it cost is a 2nd or a lesser prospect for that....my bet is he is snapped up...…………...and yes, Ottawa is a good target. as an after thought, I would not include Madden maybe a lesser type......maybe a Brisebois or a Jasek and a 2nd I might also add, at that point, after his bonus is paid...….he may not want to be in Utica for 2.5 million a year, and just may retire or he may dissolve his contract by mutual agreement, and go back to Europe and play Don't think for a minute, he doesn't see the writing on the wall...……..it may have already been agreed on...….. He will not go to Utica...……..not for long anyways Hey... I'd love for this guy to retire but you can't depend on it. Everyone loves them some money! I promise there's no agreement between him and the team that he's retiring early. This is a professional athlete with pride... If we had to give up a second, it's not worth it. Not with our drafting... Demko and Hoglander (and later picks like Madden and Gaudette) say "Hi". I feel like you have a tendency to overvalue or undervalue our players to your benefit (overvalue Eriksson so he can be tradeable and undervalue Pettersson and Hughes to fit them under the cap). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammin_jk Posted February 7, 2020 Author Share Posted February 7, 2020 15 hours ago, janisahockeynut said: BUFFALO -- The Detroit Red Wings cleared the salary-cap charge of Pavel Datsyuk by trading him and the 16th pick in the 2016 NHL Draft to the Arizona Coyotes on Friday. The trade was announced during the first round of the draft at First Niagara Center. "It's huge," Holland told The Detroit News. "It's $7.5 million; every day we were looking. There were a lot of different teams, more than I expected, with a lot of different scenarios. But in some cases, obviously, they wanted to move bad contracts. "I was OK waiting until July 1 (the start of free agency), but we were going to have to play a steeper price. But I didn't want to pay a lot of assets. "A deal has to be a win-win. It was a deal both sides are happy with." Detroit received the 20th pick and 53rd pick in the draft, and forward Joe Vitale. ------------------------------------------------ Note that Datsyuk never played a game for Arizona So it was Datsyuk cap hit + Detroits 16th for Arizona's 20th + 53rd, plus Joe Vitale (throw in)…..that is a wash! So, don't say it doesn't happen...………….. I pray something like this happens but it isn't likely given JBs track record with trades like this... just don't bet on it... but nice find! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammin_jk Posted February 7, 2020 Author Share Posted February 7, 2020 8 hours ago, BigTramFan said: I believe JB will trade Eriksson prior to the last season of his contract. It will cost VAN some picks or prospects but this will clear $6m. Edler and Pearson will also not be resigned when their contracts end. Clearing another $9.75m. These will be the main moves to provide the cap space to sign Pettersson to a long term deal of about $10m AAV, and to sign Hughes to a bridge deal worth around $6m AAV. There are also a bunch of ELC's coming through that will be used to reduce the overall cap of the roster, such as Hoglander, Podkolzin, Juolevi, Rathbone, Rafferty, etc. Exactly what I wrote in my original post except I'm hopeful they can sign Edler to a one year deal after this one expires. Feel like he will take the hometown discount to be on a team that is getting close to contention... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammin_jk Posted February 7, 2020 Author Share Posted February 7, 2020 8 hours ago, BigTramFan said: Realistically Juolevi may not make the team. Or maybe he could beat out Fantenberg next training camp. Or perhaps he may be back in Utica and be recalled as depth in 2020/21. Either way makes no difference to the point I was making, which was that the Canucks will be able to ice a competitive roster with cap hit of less than $80m with relative ease. Your roster from page 2 has a few contracts that may be underestimated and I'd love to see the cap hits beside all of your players because I don't think they have the bonuses included (which Pettersson and Hughes will both hit for sure). There is no "relative ease" about the cap next year and we can't carry over bonuses because 2021-2022 is even worse. I'd love to see your rosters with actual numbers. I've also never heard any professional recently guess that Markstrom would sign for $5 million. If he does, that would be incredible but he's closer to 5.5-6... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammin_jk Posted February 7, 2020 Author Share Posted February 7, 2020 8 hours ago, BigTramFan said: Which salary estimates do you think are extremely optimistic? And what do you think would be a more realistic amount for that player? Your roster should also include a 14th forward, the Luongo recapture penalty, the Spooner buyout hit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Where's Wellwood Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 (edited) 35 minutes ago, jammin_jk said: Not sure you're understanding... if we buyout Eriksson he is no longer on our roster so he needs to be replaced by another player... Here's the example: Don't buy him out = $6 million against the cap Buy him out = $4 million against the cap but need to fill the roster spot he leaves (so add Leivo at $2 million for example)... that also equals $6 million (basically replacing Eriksson with Leivo) What you're not understanding is that buying him out creates an extra "one player hole" on our roster that must be filled (replacing him is the cost of the buyout + the player you replace him with) We're already carrying too many forwards It's not like removing Eriksson puts us at a deficit of forwards already on the books So Leivo replaces Eriksson, then Ferland replaces Leivo Edited February 7, 2020 by Where's Wellwood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 20 minutes ago, jammin_jk said: I pray something like this happens but it isn't likely given JBs track record with trades like this... just don't bet on it... but nice find! This current cap problem is the direct result of JB’s philosophical approach to the rebuild. He signed expensive UFAs to long term contacts. Are we as good as we are now though if JB didn’t follow this philosophy? Maybe this cap trouble is just a function of us becoming a very good team, because JB drafted really top end players? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammin_jk Posted February 7, 2020 Author Share Posted February 7, 2020 8 minutes ago, Where's Wellwood said: We're already carrying too many forwards It's not like removing Eriksson puts us at a deficit of forwards already on the books It does if we manage to move Baertschi and don't resign some of our free agents. I feel like we're speaking two different languages so probably not worth arguing I'd love to see your forward list (14 forwards with contracts amounts) with and without Eriksson just to prove my point... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammin_jk Posted February 7, 2020 Author Share Posted February 7, 2020 1 minute ago, Alflives said: This current cap problem is the direct result of JB’s philosophical approach to the rebuild. He signed expensive UFAs to long term contacts. Are we as good as we are now though if JB didn’t follow this philosophy? Maybe this cap trouble is just a function of us becoming a very good team, because JB drafted really top end players? Signing Eriksson (and Beagle for that matter) to crap contracts isn't a function of becoming a good team... it's just overpriced contracts. I'm not blaming JB for these contracts, but there's no way to defend them and "better" GMs just don't have these contracts on their teams. I haven't looked, but do Tampa or Washington have any terrible contracts? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 2 minutes ago, jammin_jk said: Signing Eriksson (and Beagle for that matter) to crap contracts isn't a function of becoming a good team... it's just overpriced contracts. I'm not blaming JB for these contracts, but there's no way to defend them and "better" GMs just don't have these contracts on their teams. I haven't looked, but do Tampa or Washington have any terrible contracts? The more I think on this cap issue, the more I get confused. Beagle takes a huge load off Bo. Myers takes a huge load of Edler and Tanev. But resigning Baer and signing LE is 10 million in cap we could use elsewhere. It’s like JB’s mistakes are EXTREMELY costly. Other teams have similar mistakes, but their GMs dump those mistakes, or send them to LTIR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammin_jk Posted February 7, 2020 Author Share Posted February 7, 2020 7 minutes ago, Alflives said: The more I think on this cap issue, the more I get confused. Beagle takes a huge load off Bo. Myers takes a huge load of Edler and Tanev. But resigning Baer and signing LE is 10 million in cap we could use elsewhere. It’s like JB’s mistakes are EXTREMELY costly. Other teams have similar mistakes, but their GMs dump those mistakes, or send them to LTIR. BINGO! I even forgot about Baertschi... I guess you could defend JB here because when he was signed it looked like Sven could be a top six winger so we gave him a bridge. But Beagle and Eriksson I never understood... Hence the reason I created this post... better times are coming, but not before these mostly "useless" players are gone. I also don't mind the Myers contract. He will be better next year. He's overpaid by about $1 million but the term is palatable. You only need to look at Winnipeg to see that he has value (I know they're missing Byfuglien and Trouba too). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Where's Wellwood Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 6 minutes ago, jammin_jk said: BINGO! I even forgot about Baertschi... I guess you could defend JB here because when he was signed it looked like Sven could be a top six winger so we gave him a bridge. But Beagle and Eriksson I never understood... Hence the reason I created this post... better times are coming, but not before these mostly "useless" players are gone. I also don't mind the Myers contract. He will be better next year. He's overpaid by about $1 million but the term is palatable. You only need to look at Winnipeg to see that he has value (I know they're missing Byfuglien and Trouba too). Baer is off the books when Pettersson needs his new contract 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Where's Wellwood Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 29 minutes ago, jammin_jk said: It does if we manage to move Baertschi and don't resign some of our free agents. I feel like we're speaking two different languages so probably not worth arguing I'd love to see your forward list (14 forwards with contracts amounts) with and without Eriksson just to prove my point... I get your point. Removing even one player move every player below them up the depth rung so somebody will need to be signed to replace them. I just feel comfortable that we can get an ELC (hoglander, Podkolzin) or cheap just off ELC (Lind, Jasek) or cheap depth (Goldobin, Bailey-type, MacEwen-type) to fill those holes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 29 minutes ago, Alflives said: The more I think on this cap issue, the more I get confused. Beagle takes a huge load off Bo. Myers takes a huge load of Edler and Tanev. But resigning Baer and signing LE is 10 million in cap we could use elsewhere. It’s like JB’s mistakes are EXTREMELY costly. Other teams have similar mistakes, but their GMs dump those mistakes, or send them to LTIR. LTIR is more of a hindrance than a help especially for teams with players on ELC who are bonus eligible. LTIR was the reason why Bowman moved Hinostroza who he called an untouchable just a few months earlier to clear Hossa's LTIR contract. When a team uses LTIR they can't really bank cap space so it creates bonus overages which then count against next season's cap space. It also limits who they can recall from the minors. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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