Make Canada What again?

[JM_]

19 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

That's the list.  It's not the exit, ford, trump types.  I searched numerous pages over numerous platforms and that list was the predominant reason why they felt canada was not great judging by the measure of posts.

 

It was shocking honestly.  I don't see canada as being "great" per say, but I also feel like great is a mater of perspective, with the size of this nation great might not be in your area but it doesn't mean 3000 kms away is not great or couldn't be great.

I have a hard time believing that its isn't made up predominantly of those folks. 

 

Canada is a great place, You couldn't get more different areas than the maritimes, the arctic, prairies, BC, and all the great stuff each one contains. A person has to be willfully ignorant to not realize how much Canada has going for it. 

[JM_]

16 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

 

 

I agree with @Jimmy McGill on the Veterans. And religion is a topic that goes beyond just Canada & whether we are great or not. 

 

 

I wish vet's weren't used as a political football, their care needs to be de-politicized and just get it right. How hard could it be? 

[Warhippy]

25 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

 

Well, Trudeau is a problem. When your 'settling' for the option that sucks the least, doesn't that signify a problem? (I would suggest with the political discourse, leading to problems with literally everything else). If the 'management' as you put it, has been a problem for some time (I'd tend to agree), maybe we should ask ourselves why that is and what we can do to make it better? (Same thing goes for down south with the - 'settling for the lesser...' - atleast they thought that at the time )

 

Trudeau himself is a problem, because he's - a) not a good leader - and b) he's a fosterer of the identity politics game & the accompanying division.

 

As far as Taxes. Perhaps there's some people in your group, that have a simplistic - want the Gov't to 'leave them alone' - view. (which is fine). But for me; is asking to strive for more efficiency so hard where we can? I know we have checks & balances in place that inherently prohibit 'efficiency' (and I'm not saying abolish that structure, at all) but I can't help but feel like we could be better with our money & tax dollars than we are. And that's where you can identify and/or empathize with people struggling to get by or young ppl struggling to get started.... Or maybe some people can't, which perhaps is a problem & speaks to a bit of what HS!! was saying...

 

When you hear stories of Surrey's leader entrapping Uber drives to give them massive fines (to protect what I assume are lobbists), only to pay their fares with Tax dollars, you wonder 'what are we doing here?'. 

 

Homelessness & housing cost are 2 different issues. I don't know enough to have the answer for the housing problem, but as a young person I hope we can figure it out. And I hope the answer isn't just, shove as many people into as tight a space as possible, but that appears to be the solution right now. (And there's companies in the construction industry making a killing off that 'solution')

 

Homelessness is really difficult issue. The fact this Oppenheimer situation has been going on for so long, & we seem to be no closer to a solution (unless I'm missing something) is just a testament to that. Its more than just a political issue, and searching for the solution is intersected with morality & human nature. 

 

Immigrants & refugees - Canada needs immigration, that's not up for debate. Perhaps there's merit in a discussion about mass immigration, but that generally isn't an easy one to open up with the division & identity politics of today. Which I guess connects back to my first topic.

 

As far as 'liberial left people' this is an example b/c you were in a 'right wing' FB group (though it does exist elsewhere for sure). Go to Universities & I'm sure center/right leaning people (or even some left leaning) would feel the same way about some of the folks. I've seen some pretty nefarious things on 'UBC students against bigotry'. Including an 'argument' I was in comparing the current day USA to Nazi Germany, where I was told I 'knew nothing' over & over again (rather than an actual response) when I would ask questions about this person's (overly simplified IMO) view. 

 

I'm not trying to take sides on that, I guess the point is this isn't an exclusive thing to either side, and it again ties into the first part of my post with the division & how critical it is to improve discourse. 

 

I agree with @Jimmy McGill on the Veterans. And religion is a topic that goes beyond just Canada & whether we are great or not. 

 

 

No, you';re right.  it doesn't matter what side of the spectrum people end up on or identify with, they're not going to be happy.

 

but I personally think canada IS great.  

 

Just seeing what people identified as being their main answers as to why was shocking

[Warhippy]

8 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I wish vet's weren't used as a political football, their care needs to be de-politicized and just get it right. How hard could it be? 

It's actually funny.  I asked what people felt could be done to help veterans and nobody had that answer

 

Spend more money

Give them This

Give them that

Treat them well

 

I let them know the dollar amounts being spent, I asked where the extra money should come from.  immigration was the biggest answer, again.  I asked people how many vets they'd personally helped though.  Nobody had an answer to that, only deflection.

 

I hate how our government treats vets.  Honestly, if you serve you should be treated accordingly.  Housing, medical and dental care should be a basic reward for putting your life on the line for our flag.  But instead, they keep being promised the world and given a corner to pout in after their usefulness is up and it's shameful

[JM_]

3 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

 

 

Just seeing what people identified as being their main answers as to why was shocking

it tells me most people have it pretty good in Canada, if thats your list 

[Bure_Pavel]

To be fair its not like Canada doesn't have an immigration problem, most nations do. Its a major political issue for almost every country. I personally believe the best strategy is bringing in nationals from other countries on 5 year work visas, give them valuable experience and education to take back to their countries to better them, while stimulating our economy. The main problem is there are so many loop holes not a lot would leave after.     

Edited February 7, 2020 by Bure_Pavel

[RUPERTKBD]

2 hours ago, Hey Guys!! said:

You can’t see it until you live somewhere else then return. You don’t even really notice it while you’re gone either. It’s when you come back you realize how grumpy Canadians are. I am Canadian. I’m not separating myself at all. Look at this rant, it’s so Canadian. I use to have a huge chip on my shoulder about the US. I use to think they were the arrogant ones, but that’s not the case at all. Canada has no flavour, no identity, no history. It’s like we are lost in the world. When someone asks where you are from and you say Canada. They will usually say Eh!! Or sorry eh? Houuuse. And laugh. We are a joke. JT didn’t help that image either. He is actually 100% exactly what the world thinks a Canadian is. Softly stuttering while trying to find the least offensive thing to say. 

Y'all got that right..Nomesayin'?

 

1 hour ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Totally. Perspective is key. There have been days when I've been the asshole.

I'm thinking this sentence is missing the word "many"....

 

To which I would reply, "Moi aussi"....

[Ryan Strome]

Lmao defends massive spending and deficits in another thread in this thread says of course it's a problem. 

[the grinder]

11 hours ago, Warhippy said:

Ok full disclosure, this is something that's been going on for a few days and I'll give the back story because I've been wondering about it

 

I was added on Facebook to a group/page titled Make Canada Great Again.  Now I actually wondered, wtf is wrong with Canada exactly?  Why isn't Canada great now?

 

So I asked.  Very simply.  If Canada isn't great now, what is wrong with it.

 

Admittedly the management end of things has been off for about 20 years or so.  We haven't had a decent management group since the 90s that could make things work and pay down the debt or avoid rampant overspending.  Taxes are high, housing costs are insane.  There's an identity crisis about who is/is not wanting to remain in the nation and the left vs right debate is only getting worse.

 

Now, asking a social media group about anything like this is not the best idea and I had an idea where this would head but I was kind of overwhelmed and honestly saddened by the responses.In order of importance to over 300+ responses and counting

• Immigrants
• Refugees
• Trudeau
• Religion
• The left/Liberal people
• Taxes
• Veterans
• Homelessness and housing costs

 

When I say I was overwhelmed I mean it.  Almost every other post dealt with race.  Full stop, yes almost every other post.  The largest bulk afterwards came against Trudeau and effectively over 60% of the population of the nation that voted left, lean left or happen to have voted Liberally.

 

Ok so it's a one off right?  Sadly no.  I perused 11 separate pages or groups with eh phrase or title of make/making Canada great/again.  Almost universally every post was about refugees, immigration, the left/liberal people and Trudeau.  How the hell I asked myself, can a nation built by and for immigrants and refugees all of a sudden not be great because we're still accepting immigrants and refugees?  How sad is that of a reason to claim Canada isn't great?  Or that people who didn't vote your way are somehow the issue, effectively blaming 2/3rds of the nation because they don't vote your way for believing the nation isn't great

 

So I wanted to ask here.  I've lived and worked all over Canada.  I think it's the greatest nation on the planet myself.  No bias, I really do.  it's got something for everyone and it's so large that if your area of the nation doesn't feel great, there's millions of square kilometres to find a part that is.

 

So in your eyes.  if canada isn't great now, wtf is wrong with it?

 

Gratuitous flag waving emoji

wtf is wrong with Canada  , just look at the some of the news stories  ,  some guy claiming video games  made him kill 2 innocent people  ,  rapist and child molester walking the streets , murderer's having babies in jail  ,  chair girl , money laundering  , gang shootings  , icbc, ,$ 200,000 cars with a n on them  , a million dollars for 800 square feet in a giant tower , hard to find a doctor  , 8 hour wait in a hospital ,  reasonable place to rent for reasonable money , taxes ,   the price of gas and food ,   

 

when it comes to immigration and refugees ,  we all know Canada was built on immigration  but Canada needs to slow down on it  ; we simply cant keep bringing everyone in  until we fix the problems at hand  , lets get affordable housing  , get more doctors ,  make it more liveable for everyone 

 

. I am so sick  of paying 43%  of what I earn in taxes  , the more I try to earn the more I pay ,  so ya maybe I should become a criminal   e work your own hours  be your boss if you get caught   alil slap on the wrist  and back to work you go  ,  steal a few catalytic converters ,  drill a hole in a gas tank   go grocery shopping steal some meat and cheese  open you own store with all the stolen goods , 

 

[khay]

11 hours ago, Shirotashi said:

I cant believe people think immigration and refugees are a problem. So much misinformation. We NEED 

immigration in this country badly. 

 

The problem with this country and might as well lump the USA in this is lack of bi partisanship in our

media and our government. Its like your either Liberal or a Nazi.

I can't agree more. Without immigrants, Canada is going to stagnate and fall behind. 

 

Majority of the immigrants are skilled workers or highly educated individuals. These immigrants keep Canada's vibrant economically and culturally. This was the case 100 years ago and it still is now. Imagine if Canada stopped taking European immigrants 100 years ago, where would it be now? If Canada stops taking immigrants now (be it they from Africa, Europe, Asia, or Antartica), it's inevitable that it won't survive the competition. 

 

The fact that we have liberal immigration policy gives Canada an advantage over many countries in Europe. Only the most misinformed people don't see this.

 

[khay]

16 minutes ago, the grinder said:

wtf is wrong with Canada  , just look at the some of the news stories  ,  some guy claiming video games  made him kill 2 innocent people  ,  rapist and child molester walking the streets , murderer's having babies in jail  ,  chair girl , money laundering  , gang shootings  , icbc, ,$ 200,000 cars with a n on them  , a million dollars for 800 square feet in a giant tower , hard to find a doctor  , 8 hour wait in a hospital ,  reasonable place to rent for reasonable money , taxes ,   the price of gas and food ,   

 

when it comes to immigration and refugees ,  we all know Canada was built on immigration  but Canada needs to slow down on it  ; we simply cant keep bringing everyone in  until we fix the problems at hand  , lets get affordable housing  , get more doctors ,  make it more liveable for everyone 

 

. I am so sick  of paying 43%  of what I earn in taxes  , the more I try to earn the more I pay ,  so ya maybe I should become a criminal   e work your own hours  be your boss if you get caught   alil slap on the wrist  and back to work you go  ,  steal a few catalytic converters ,  drill a hole in a gas tank   go grocery shopping steal some meat and cheese  open you own store with all the stolen goods , 

 

Who is doing the taxes for you? That guy must be screwing you. If it's yourself, well, maybe you should study a bit.

 

Most of those problem you mentioned exist in all countries in the world in some form. By all means, go ahead and become a criminal if you are so unhappy with earning honest money. I guess taxpayers don't mind paying for your food and lodging... at the prison.

 

Canada doesn't just bring anybody in. They are selective: 1) you need to have one of the skills deemed to be in shortage, 2) open a business and run it for x years, 3) invest $hitload of money in a Canadian businesses, or 4) pursuing education at masters or Doctoral level. There's probably more but you get the idea. The 4) is really smart in my opinion. It's like plucking a trained individual from overseas, educate them in Canada so that they can help make Canada become competitive in various areas.

 

 

[Boudrias]

2 hours ago, Tortorella's Rant said:

Blatant political corruption and incompetence both sides of the aisle and increasing unaffordability of necessities are two key examples of why this country isn't great. Rather, the country, the land itself is perfectly acceptable, beautiful, fantastic, but those running the day to day operations continue to ruin it for everybody else. Of course an immigrant from the Middle East won't agree with this but when they hail from a section of the world where the bar is literally laying on the ground at that point - there's nowhere to go but up. Other exceptions to the rule are those with naturally low standards or brain dead idiots. 

When governments spend more money than they raise thru tax then they are disguising or lying about the real impact it will have in their lives. Most governments in the world are doing exactly that. Canadians think they are better off than most people in the world which is fine on a certain level. I suggest that they have little idea of the financial reality of their country. They should be very nervous.

 

I have done wholesale business on both sides of the border and found Americans more loyal to their domestic suppliers. They were willing to pay more to their local businesses. It is important to realize that this experience is not necessarily a character comment. Canadian markets are smaller and therefore more expensive, margins are smaller. 

 

I consider the the health of the economy a national security issue. Ability to generate business profits is critical. This is an issue that should get national debate. Instead we have elections based on ‘blackface or how religious a leader might be’. We are a banana monarchy.

[khay]

38 minutes ago, Bure_Pavel said:

To be fair its not like Canada doesn't have an immigration problem, most nations do. Its a major political issue for almost every country. I personally believe the best strategy is bringing in nationals from other countries on 5 year work visas, give them valuable experience and education to take back to their countries to better them, while stimulating our economy. The main problem is there are so many loop holes not a lot would leave after.     

So you are saying, we help them get trained using national resources (universities are funded by the government), only to have them return back to their countries? Why don't we keep them here, so they can use their newly gained knowledge to help Canada? Seems like a waste!

 

This visitor idea works in the US. They have visitor visas for up to 5 years (called J1 visa). A country like US can do this because literally everyone in the world wants to come to the US to experience the top of the line education and state-of-the-art industries. These visitors help to stimulate US economy and because there are always people wanting to visit, US can afford to send them back. In fact, they have a rule stating that if you were on J1 visa, you must return back to your country for 2 years before coming back to US on another visitor visa such as J1. 

 

 

 

[Ryan Strome]

4 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

When governments spend more money than they raise thru tax then they are disguising or lying about the real impact it will have in their lives. Most governments in the world are doing exactly that. Canadians think they are better off than most people in the world which is fine on a certain level. I suggest that they have little idea of the financial reality of their country. They should be very nervous.

 

I have done wholesale business on both sides of the border and found Americans more loyal to their domestic suppliers. They were willing to pay more to their local businesses. It is important to realize that this experience is not necessarily a character comment. Canadian markets are smaller and therefore more expensive, margins are smaller. 

 

I consider the the health of the economy a national security issue. Ability to generate business profits is critical. This is an issue that should get national debate. Instead we have elections based on ‘blackface or how religious a leader might be’. We are a banana monarchy.

I agree with everything except this. Bush, Obama and Trump have all put in measures to force American companies to buy American first. If what you said were true it wouldn't have been necessary. 

[BPA]

Make Canada Great Again??

 

Sure...bring back industry that we stupidly let die.  I'm talking about Ship Building and Avionics.  Canada was once among the top in both.  Now ship building is struggling only to be propped up by defence spending.  Avionics gone and just smaller shops getting bread crumbs.  Both of these industries would have brought along skilled jobs and $$ to Canada.  Instead we are more focused on shipping out raw resources for pennies on a dime.

 

End rant.

 

PS.  I still think Canada is great compared to other countries.

[Lancaster]

44 minutes ago, khay said:

I can't agree more. Without immigrants, Canada is going to stagnate and fall behind. 

 

Majority of the immigrants are skilled workers or highly educated individuals. These immigrants keep Canada's vibrant economically and culturally. This was the case 100 years ago and it still is now. Imagine if Canada stopped taking European immigrants 100 years ago, where would it be now? If Canada stops taking immigrants now (be it they from Africa, Europe, Asia, or Antartica), it's inevitable that it won't survive the competition. 

 

The fact that we have liberal immigration policy gives Canada an advantage over many countries in Europe. Only the most misinformed people don't see this.

 

True... but too many barriers in place.

 

The stereotypical Indian taxi driver with a degree in computer science isn't too far off from the truth.  Walk into a myriad of Tim Hortons, ethnic restaurant, etc... many of the workers probably have a degree or experience needed for Canada.... but credentials aren't recognized.  

 

My buddy was a mechanical engineer and manager in Korea... but had to slug it out at Tim Hortons and a few other random jobs for a few years to get her PR.  Then have to go to BCIT to take some random intro to engineering course or whatever... then finally land a job related to her original specialty.  The process probably took like 4-5 years.  She had the desire and commitment to tough it out and it was lucky that her company valued actual experience and skills rather than credentials.  

 

Another friend, she is a pharmacist in Japan.  Tried to tough it out here for a few years, but after realizing there is no way to transfer her experience/credentials, she was told she had to take the entire pharmacy program again but as an international student... or she will need to find some low level job to get her PR and then re-take the program as a domestic student.  Too many uncertainties.... thus she returned back to Japan and opened her own pharmacy, and a loss to Canada.

 

My wife was a school teacher in Japan.  Her credentials aren't completely transferable, and she will need to take courses for a few years to meet the Canadian requirement.  Prior to now being a stay-at-home mother, she was just working at a Japanese language school/daycare.  Supposedly a teaching shortage, but potentially another loss for Canada.   

 

Lots of my international friends are or were in similar situations.  Canada says it needs more skilled labour, but it makes no attempt to let them actually work in their dedicated field... but more than willing to provide working holiday visas and other work permits to let them slave away waiting tables and washing dishes.  

[khay]

19 minutes ago, Lancaster said:

True... but too many barriers in place.

 

The stereotypical Indian taxi driver with a degree in computer science isn't too far off from the truth.  Walk into a myriad of Tim Hortons, ethnic restaurant, etc... many of the workers probably have a degree or experience needed for Canada.... but credentials aren't recognized.  

 

My buddy was a mechanical engineer and manager in Korea... but had to slug it out at Tim Hortons and a few other random jobs for a few years to get her PR.  Then have to go to BCIT to take some random intro to engineering course or whatever... then finally land a job related to her original specialty.  The process probably took like 4-5 years.  She had the desire and commitment to tough it out and it was lucky that her company valued actual experience and skills rather than credentials.  

 

Another friend, she is a pharmacist in Japan.  Tried to tough it out here for a few years, but after realizing there is no way to transfer her experience/credentials, she was told she had to take the entire pharmacy program again but as an international student... or she will need to find some low level job to get her PR and then re-take the program as a domestic student.  Too many uncertainties.... thus she returned back to Japan and opened her own pharmacy, and a loss to Canada.

 

My wife was a school teacher in Japan.  Her credentials aren't completely transferable, and she will need to take courses for a few years to meet the Canadian requirement.  Prior to now being a stay-at-home mother, she was just working at a Japanese language school/daycare.  Supposedly a teaching shortage, but potentially another loss for Canada.   

 

Lots of my international friends are or were in similar situations.  Canada says it needs more skilled labour, but it makes no attempt to let them actually work in their dedicated field... but more than willing to provide working holiday visas and other work permits to let them slave away waiting tables and washing dishes.  

Valid points. Thanks for some real life examples.

 

But I guess this is not really the problem with immigration but lack of social system that allows quick re-training of skilled immigrants. Immigration policy should stay liberal but Canada needs to invest more into incorporating them into the society so as to maximize human resources. 

 

Good on your engineering friend for sticking through the process. I think some sort of retraining should be mandatory but 4-5 years is a complete waste of time and talent.

 

Edit: Indian taxi driver with CS degree is indeed a sad reality. I think all first generation immigrants are going to suffer to some degree... But it's their children, who would be educated in Canada, that would benefit from hard labors of their parents and contribute keeping Canada great. 

 

 

Edited February 7, 2020 by khay

[aGENT]

13 hours ago, StealthNuck said:

These people were always there and are generally a minority, but they have a loud voice now due to:

• Trumpism and the unfortunate normalization of racism, sexism, etc.
• The amplification effect of social media.
• The unwillingness of social media companies to moderate the above.
• Divisive manipulation via mass media (e.g. Murdoch) and social media (e.g. divisive Russian disinformation campaigns).

I'll add that it also should be the expected reaction to the tribalism and idiocy of the extreme left. Equal and opposite reaction (on the right) that should shock literally no one. 

 

And both sides seem all too willing to simply amp up the volume of their two idiotic extremes, leaving the rest of us in the middle with a &^@#ing headache.

[Standing_Tall#37]

I feel that Canada has lost its independence. People have lost their strength of character and kindness. The 6 or so metropolitan areas nationwide have become so self important and they are willing to F*** over the rest of Canadians.

 

 I feel that we should no longer be considered Canada but more UNada. I also feel that we’re taxed to death (probably 70% when it’s all said and done) and I don’t feel that very much of that money is to help make Canada better or improve problems that we have. 

 I feel like our health standard and education have gone down, while our corruption level has gone up. I also believe that if you’re not ultra-liberal, you’re seen as a racist fascist in this country now. Which actually pushes more middle inclined people to go to the right. I feel like people have divided Canada to the point where it is at no return. 

 

 Canadians used to be honest, generous, kind, strong and humble. We’ve eroded these traits to the point where we’ve lost the Canadian identity over the last 30 years.  

 

 I honestly have lost my pride in this country the last 12 or so years and will probably leave for the US as soon as my youngest child is grown up. There’s really no noticeable difference day to day. Vancouver tries to be San Francisco and Toronto is trying to be New York. The only big difference is that those big city’s inhabitants down south don’t try to ruin the rest of their country.

Edited February 7, 2020 by Standing_Tall#37

[Alflives]

13 hours ago, Warhippy said:

I mean you're not wrong.

 

But in all seriousness.  Search any facebook page or group with the make canada great again statements.  Almost every post, every comment is overwhelmingly race related or blaming the entire nations issues on 2/3rds of the rest of the nation based on their political leanings.  Issues that existed 5-10-15-30 years ago are all of a sudden blamed on whatever they feel is the flavour of the day, that flavour is remarkably consistent though.

 

Not many people, when I asked that simple question could answer it without bringing up religion, immigrants or "trudeau" and that's pretty telling when hey consider that one of those 3 issues makes this nation not great

Maybe we’re not great yet if racist attitudes still prevail?  IMO no country can truly be great unless we see everyone as the same.  Have we ever been like that in Canada?  I don’t think so.  To me that means we’ve never been great.  We will be great when we all just see one another as people.  (Except Brad Marchand; he’s still a rat.)