Proposal Salary Cap Moves - Van - NJ , Van - Mtl

[kenhodgejr]

Vancouver's strategy for the trade deadline should be to unload salary so we have room to sign Pettersson and Hughes in the future while giving depth players like MacEwan a chance. 

 

TRADE 1

Why Vancouver does the trade with NJ- Vancouver will have 6 million dollars taken off our cap at the end of the season as a result of this trade.  Simmonds is a rental player for the playoffs if we make it and his salary will be gone after this season. Simmonds can play up and down the line up. He can play on Petterssons line and keep him safe.  In the past 5 years Benning has developed a good group of prospects who are close to making the team. We can afford to give up a 1st round pick to improve our salary situation and save us from getting into bad situations like other NHL teams are in. 

 

Why NJ does this- They get a potential lottery first round pick! NJ is going to want to rebuild through the draft and add picks so they can afford to take Erikssons salary for 2 more years if it means adding a first round prospect. They have also showed they are not afraid to take on large contracts. This would be a win win trade scenario 

 

To Van: Projected Cap Space $30,474

 

Wayne Simonds - 5million - 2020 

 

To NJ: Current Cap Space - $6,412828. 

 

Louie Eriksson -6 million - 2022

1st round pick in 2020 or 2021 which ever doest go to Tampa 

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

TRADE 2

Why Vancouver does this- Vancouver will have $4,375,000 taken off our cap at the end of this season. Weise is a rental player for the playoffs, if we make it and his salary will be gone after this season. 

 

Why Montreal does this- Montreal gets a decent depth centre or wing in Brandon Sutter who can play up and down the line up and they add a second round draft pick in 2020 to help with their rebuild. Dale Weise is not important to them and will not be missed. 

 

To Montreal: Projected Cap Space $3,752,527. 

Brandon Sutter -$4,375,000 - 2021 

2020 2nd round pick 

 

To Vancouver:

Dale Weise - $2,350, 000. - 2020

 

 

New lines for 2020

 

Miller Pettersson Simmonds 

Pearson Horvat Boeser 

Roussel Gaudette Virtanen 

Schaller Beagle Motte 

MacEwan Weise 

 

Cap Space gained for 2021 - 

Eriksson - $6,000,000 + Sutter - $4,375,000 = $10,375,000. 

 

 

 

Edited February 8, 2020 by kenhodgejr

[Fanuck]

Gut our franchise of high draft picks so EP/Huggy have no one to play with in 2-4 Years? 

Ok then....

[Pears]

Throw away a first round pick just to get rid of a contract? Come on...

[kenhodgejr]

21 minutes ago, Fanuck said:

Gut our franchise of high draft picks so EP/Huggy have no one to play with in 2-4 Years? 

Ok then....

You need to think how will EP/Huggy play if we can't afford to pay them because the team is overpaying guys on the bottom 6. At some point Benning will need to make a bold move to fix this situation. In the larger picture a 1st and a 2nd is a small price to improve the financial health of a team. We still have Podkolzin, Hoglander, Madden, Juolevi, Rathbone, Rafferty, MacEwan, and Lind all primed to make the team in the next year or two

[VegasCanuck]

55 minutes ago, kenhodgejr said:

Vancouver's strategy for the trade deadline should be to unload salary so we have room to sign Pettersson and Hughes in the future while giving depth players like MacEwan a chance. 

 

TRADE 1

Why Vancouver does the trade with NJ- Vancouver will have 6 million dollars taken off our cap at the end of the season as a result of this trade.  Simmonds is a rental player for the playoffs if we make it and his salary will be gone after this season. Simmonds can play up and down the line up. He can play on Petterssons line and keep him safe.  In the past 5 years Benning has developed a good group of prospects who are close to making the team. We can afford to give up a 1st round pick to improve our salary situation and save us from getting into bad situations like other NHL teams are in. 

 

Why NJ does this- They get a potential lottery first round pick! NJ is going to want to rebuild through the draft and add picks so they can afford to take Erikssons salary for 2 more years if it means adding a first round prospect. They have also showed they are not afraid to take on large contracts. This would be a win win trade scenario 

 

To Van: Projected Cap Space $30,474

 

Wayne Simonds - 5million - 2020 

 

To NJ: Current Cap Space - $6,412828. 

 

Louie Eriksson -6 million - 2022

1st round pick in 2020 or 2021 which ever doest go to Tampa 

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

TRADE 2

Why Vancouver does this- Vancouver will have $4,375,000 taken off our cap at the end of this season. Weise is a rental player for the playoffs, if we make it and his salary will be gone after this season. 

 

Why Montreal does this- Montreal gets a decent depth centre or wing in Brandon Sutter who can play up and down the line up and they add a second round draft pick in 2020 to help with their rebuild. Dale Weise is not important to them and will not be missed. 

 

To Montreal: Projected Cap Space $3,752,527. 

Brandon Sutter -$4,375,000 - 2021 

2020 2nd round pick 

 

To Vancouver:

Dale Weise - $2,350, 000. - 2020

 

 

New lines for 2020

 

Miller Pettersson Simmonds 

Pearson Horvat Boeser 

Roussel Gaudette Virtanen 

Schaller Beagle Motte 

MacEwan Weise 

 

Cap Space gained for 2021 - 

Eriksson - $6,000,000 + Sutter - $4,375,000 = $10,375,000. 

 

 

 

According to Benning, we are okay on cap space moving forward, I trust his knowledge of the cap over anyone in this board.

 

I think that Eriksson will likely retire from the NHL after this season. Although we will likely face some type of recapture penalty, this will be less than a direct buyout. Why would Eriksson do this? He will likely be sent to Utica next season if he’s still with the team, which means he loses control of where he is in relation to his family.

 

Remember, the summer that we have to sign Pettersson and Hughes, is the same summer that the NHL will be signing the new broadcast deal, which means a more significant jump in the cap.

 

In conclusion, let’s just keep our draft picks and focus on developing internally, we aren’t as tight against the cap as everyone seems to think. 

[qwijibo]

3 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

According to Benning, we are okay on cap space moving forward, I trust his knowledge of the cap over anyone in this board.

 

I think that Eriksson will likely retire from the NHL after this season. Although we will likely face some type of recapture penalty, this will be less than a direct buyout. Why would Eriksson do this? He will likely be sent to Utica next season if he’s still with the team, which means he loses control of where he is in relation to his family.

 

Remember, the summer that we have to sign Pettersson and Hughes, is the same summer that the NHL will be signing the new broadcast deal, which means a more significant jump in the cap.

 

In conclusion, let’s just keep our draft picks and focus on developing internally, we aren’t as tight against the cap as everyone seems to think. 

There is zero indication that that’s the case. In fact a number of posters on this site insisted over the summer that Ericksson would be waived to Utica out of training camp this year and would subsequently retire and return to Sweden because of “ pride”. Instead he’s been playing in the 2nd line. 

[JM_]

We don't really need to burn the 1st rounder. When we need the money for Petey and Hughes, Sutter, Spooner and Sven are all off the books and we can save another 2.4 buying out Loui for that year. Its all good. 

 

Cap Hit Calculations

SEASON	INITIAL BASE SALARY	INITIAL CAP HIT	SIGNING BONUS	BUYOUT COST	POST-BUYOUT EARNINGS	SAVINGS	CAP HIT ( VAN)
2020-21	$1,000,000	$6,000,000	$3,000,000	$666,667	$3,666,667	$333,333	$5,666,667
2021-22	$3,000,000	$6,000,000	$1,000,000	$666,667	$1,666,667	$2,333,333	$3,666,667
2022-23	$0	$0	$0	$666,667	$666,667	-$666,667	$666,667
2023-24	$0	$0	$0	$666,667	$666,667	-$666,667	$666,667
TOTAL	$4,000,000	$12,000,000	$4,000,000	$2,666,667	$6,666,667	$1,333,333	$10,666,668

 

[Provost]

5 minutes ago, qwijibo said:

There is zero indication that that’s the case. In fact a number of posters on this site insisted over the summer that Ericksson would be waived to Utica out of training camp this year and would subsequently retire and return to Sweden because of “ pride”. Instead he’s been playing in the 2nd line. 

Exactly... if there was a thought Eriksson would retire, then that should have happened this year when he wasn't getting a sniff at playing time.

It is a hopeful wish, and not something that can be counted on.  I have no idea why he wasn't demoted to force the issue, but I can't presume Alfives invented theory that Eriksson has agreed to retire this summer and we can only work with what we know.
 

[Provost]

3 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

We don't really need to burn the 1st rounder. When we need the money for Petey and Hughes, Sutter, Spooner and Sven are all off the books and we can save another 2.4 buying out Loui for that year. Its all good. 

 

Cap Hit Calculations

SEASON	INITIAL BASE SALARY	INITIAL CAP HIT	SIGNING BONUS	BUYOUT COST	POST-BUYOUT EARNINGS	SAVINGS	CAP HIT ( VAN)
2020-21	$1,000,000	$6,000,000	$3,000,000	$666,667	$3,666,667	$333,333	$5,666,667
2021-22	$3,000,000	$6,000,000	$1,000,000	$666,667	$1,666,667	$2,333,333	$3,666,667
2022-23	$0	$0	$0	$666,667	$666,667	-$666,667	$666,667
2023-24	$0	$0	$0	$666,667	$666,667	-$666,667	$666,667
TOTAL	$4,000,000	$12,000,000	$4,000,000	$2,666,667	$6,666,667	$1,333,333	$10,666,668

 

Except we badly need the cap space next season as well.  We not only have to fit in this year's pushed ELC bonuses, we also have to find a way to pay next year's without pushing it into the season where we have to pay Petterson and Hughes.

There is no "just do nothing and it all works out" scenario that doesn't gut our franchise of depth in the next two years when we can't afford to re-sign anyone.  The cost to our roster of not moving Eriksson is greater than the cost of paying futures to move him now.

[JM_]

2 minutes ago, Provost said:

Exactly... if there was a thought Eriksson would retire, then that should have happened this year when he wasn't getting a sniff at playing time.

It is a hopeful wish, and not something that can be counted on.  I have no idea why he wasn't demoted to force the issue, but I can't presume Alfives invented theory that Eriksson has agreed to retire this summer and we can only work with what we know.
 

injuries - weren't you watching? plus he proved a useful line mate with Bo. I see tonight they're trying out Sutter with Bo which could be interesting, he's got the defensive angle Loui brought but has a much better chance of scoring. 

[JM_]

1 minute ago, Provost said:

Except we badly need the cap space next season as well.  We not only have to fit in this year's pushed ELC bonuses, we also have to find a way to pay next year's without pushing it into the season where we have to pay Petterson and Hughes.

There is no "just do nothing and it all works out" scenario that doesn't gut our franchise of depth in the next two years when we can't afford to re-sign anyone.  The cost to our roster of not moving Eriksson is greater than the cost of paying futures to move him now.

nah, its not that bad. As it stands today there's 40 mil in cap space to play with for 21/22. Yes I realize we need to sign guys but with players like Podkolzin and at least one of Juolevi, Rathbone or Woo on ELCs or bridges we're in good shape. We' don't need to panic and waste a 1st rounder. 

[Provost]

Just now, Jimmy McGill said:

injuries - weren't you watching? plus he proved a useful line mate with Bo. I see tonight they're trying out Sutter with Bo which could be interesting, he's got the defensive angle Loui brought but has a much better chance of scoring. 

Injuries is why there was even a possible roster spot for him in the press box, it has nothing to do with the team not choosing to demote him to force the cap issue.  He was providing nothing sitting in the press box that MacEwan or another player couldn't have.

He played a short stretch of "not terrible" games, we have no idea if putting another one of our players in that spot would have been better... it couldn't have made us much worse, certainly not compared with the possible benefit of having gotten rid of that cap hit.  Had we demoted him out of training camp, we would have known if he was going to decide to retire long before we actually ended up putting him on the ice... nothing would have prevented us from calling him up when we actually wanted to try to play him, all we did was carry him on the roster to attend practice.

[JM_]

2 minutes ago, Provost said:

Injuries is why there was even a possible roster spot for him in the press box, it has nothing to do with the team not choosing to demote him to force the cap issue.  He was providing nothing sitting in the press box that MacEwan or another player couldn't have.

He played a short stretch of "not terrible" games, we have no idea if putting another one of our players in that spot would have been better... it couldn't have made us much worse, certainly not compared with the possible benefit of having gotten rid of that cap hit.  Had we demoted him out of training camp, we would have known if he was going to decide to retire long before we actually ended up putting him on the ice... nothing would have prevented us from calling him up when we actually wanted to try to play him, all we did was carry him on the roster to attend practice.

nice theory but it means nothing if Loui is happy to make 6 mil per year in Utica. 

[mll]

23 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

According to Benning, we are okay on cap space moving forward, I trust his knowledge of the cap over anyone in this board.

 

I think that Eriksson will likely retire from the NHL after this season. Although we will likely face some type of recapture penalty, this will be less than a direct buyout. Why would Eriksson do this? He will likely be sent to Utica next season if he’s still with the team, which means he loses control of where he is in relation to his family.

 

Remember, the summer that we have to sign Pettersson and Hughes, is the same summer that the NHL will be signing the new broadcast deal, which means a more significant jump in the cap.

 

In conclusion, let’s just keep our draft picks and focus on developing internally, we aren’t as tight against the cap as everyone seems to think. 

 

There are discussions to keep the cap flat even after the new TV deal to have a better alignment between the actual salary cap and the salary cap hit used.  Currently the league is operating on an artificially increased salary cap which doesn't accurately reflect the revenue situation and the players are paying for it through escrow.  The increase might only be marginal for a few years to correct that and allow to limit escrow.

[Provost]

2 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

nah, its not that bad. As it stands today there's 40 mil in cap space to play with for 21/22. Yes I realize we need to sign guys but with players like Podkolzin and at least one of Juolevi, Rathbone or Woo on ELCs or bridges we're in good shape. We' don't need to panic and waste a 1st rounder. 

I covered this in a couple of other threads before... but $40 million only sounds good if you don't remember that you need to sign 15 or so players with that money including two goalies; 3-4 top 4 D; 3 top 6 forwards; and a bunch of other players.  It also ignores that fact we won't really have $40 million, because we will push about $4 million in ELC bonuses into that year if we don't move out enough salary next season to accommodate it.

$36 million - $10 million for Petterson - $8 million for Hughes - $5 million for Tanev or equivalent - $5 million for Markstrom = $8 million left.

With that $8 million you need to sign Virtanen and 10 more roster players.  That is mathematically impossible.  The alternative is to no re-sign any of our useful players except for Petterson and Hughes and just be terrible for two seasons with no depth.  It is math, not opinion.

 

[Provost]

5 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

nice theory but it means nothing if Loui is happy to make 6 mil per year in Utica. 

I didn't say he WOULD retire, just that we should have forced the issue and made him decide before having to waste assets to ditch his contract.

[VegasCanuck]

15 minutes ago, qwijibo said:

There is zero indication that that’s the case. In fact a number of posters on this site insisted over the summer that Ericksson would be waived to Utica out of training camp this year and would subsequently retire and return to Sweden because of “ pride”. Instead he’s been playing in the 2nd line. 

Posters don’t actually know what’s going on with the team, they speculate and guess. That’s what all of us do.

 

The idea that he would retire this coming summer, was originally floated by @Alflives, and it has a lot of merit. After his 3 million bonus is paid this summer, he’s only owed another 7 million. 

 

I think Eriksson likes it here  in Vancouver, its entirely possible and conceivable, that he retire and join the team in some capacity.

 

I don’t think Eriksson is a bad guy, clearly this should have been a much different contract than it was, I think the fact that NO ONE would trade for him last summer, even with his own agent trying to make deals behind the scenes, was an eye opener for him. Some players decline faster than others, just like some mature faster than others. Pretty sure Eriksson knows that his chance of making this team next season are pretty remote.

 

I think he will retire, I think there’s enough out there to form that hypothesis, but again, it is only a hypothesis, ythe same as everything else on this forum. It’s just ne that makes a lot of sense.

[JM_]

3 minutes ago, Provost said:

I covered this in a couple of other threads before... but $40 million only sounds good if you don't remember that you need to sign 15 or so players with that money including two goalies; 3-4 top 4 D; 3 top 6 forwards; and a bunch of other players.  It also ignores that fact we won't really have $40 million, because we will push about $4 million in ELC bonuses into that year if we don't move out enough salary next season to accommodate it.

$36 million - $10 million for Petterson - $8 million for Hughes - $5 million for Tanev or equivalent - $5 million for Markstrom = $8 million left.

With that $8 million you need to sign Virtanen and 10 more roster players.  That is mathematically impossible.  The alternative is to no re-sign any of our useful players except for Petterson and Hughes and just be terrible for two seasons with no depth.  It is math, not opinion.

 

depends what happens with Seattle, they may take some salary off our hands too. Its just way too soon to panic and start burning 1st rounders, we can always do that as a very last resort if we have to but I don't believe we will given the potential high number of ELCs, cap going up after a new tv deal, and we can run with a 22 man roster if need be. 

[Provost]

1 minute ago, mll said:

 

There are discussions to keep the cap flat even after the new TV deal to have a better alignment between the actual salary cap and the salary cap hit used.  Currently the league is operating on an artificially increased salary cap which doesn't accurately reflect the revenue situation and the players are paying for it through escrow.  The increase might only be marginal for a few years to correct that and allow to limit escrow.

Exactly this.  Escrow will be WAY worse this year because basically every team is above the midpoint and even LTIR dollars count towards the player's share so many teams are spending way over the cap ceiling.

I doubt they are going to want to use the artificial escalator right after getting whacked by a huge escrow number.  After the December BOG meetings, the GMs basically said to assume and plan for an effectively flat cap.  Maybe at most a million or two each season to not entirely screw that current class of UFAs.

[VegasCanuck]

4 minutes ago, mll said:

 

There are discussions to keep the cap flat even after the new TV deal to have a better alignment between the actual salary cap and the salary cap hit used.  Currently the league is operating on an artificially increased salary cap which doesn't accurately reflect the revenue situation and the players are paying for it through escrow.  The increase might only be marginal for a few years to correct that and allow to limit escrow.

It’s true that it’s expected that the cap will stay flat this coming summer. I would personally expect it to go up by 1 to 1.5 million again. This is continuing the escrow correction that started last summer. With the new broadcasting agreement the following summer, I would expect to see the cap jump to somewhere in the 88 million range, which would still give enough of a bump to d what we need to do, while completing the escrow correction.

 

I’m just guessing, but what is completely accurate is, NHL revenue is continuing to grow, and Seattle entering the league is only going to advance that even more.