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[Proposal] Who Would Give The Most For Demko? Markstrom?


Lazurus

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4 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

Spring 2020 - Markstrom re-signs, Canucks make the 2nd round of the playoffs and give TB the 1st

 

2020/21 season - Markstrom/Demko tandem, Hoglander and Tryamkin join, Canucks make the conference finals

 

Summer 2021 - Benning makes a deal with SEA to leave Demko in VAN

 

Fall 2021 - Seattle team originates, Podkolzin and Woo join

 

Summer 2022 - Canucks win the Cup

 

Draft 2022 - Demko traded for a 1st

 

lets not high jack the thread now, why not just say Markstrom pays the Canucks to stay and Demko signs a 25 year contract for 30g's a year?

 

If I run Seattle, I want the first born or else. If it goes that far there is no winning for Benning or the team. Give away more of the future to keep the status quo. There ARE only 4 players under 24 on the team, hardly a young group. Brock, Quinn, Elias and Jake, Gaud should be but he is still a replacement for Ferland, Lievo, Motte or Boeser.

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Unless someone offers a top 10-15 pick for Marky or Demko I say just let Seattle take one, assuming they do in fact take one. I haven't looked too in-depth at potential goalies being exposed from other teams. But you have to imagine Demko and Marky would be pretty high on Seattle's list. One has lots of upside and the other looks really good and could be Seattle's Fleury. I can't recall very many instances recently where a goalie got good value in a trade. Outside the Schneider trade. Lehner went for a late-ish first a few years back? Pretty decent value I suppose.

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18 minutes ago, N7Nucks said:

Unless someone offers a top 10-15 pick for Marky or Demko I say just let Seattle take one, assuming they do in fact take one. I haven't looked too in-depth at potential goalies being exposed from other teams. But you have to imagine Demko and Marky would be pretty high on Seattle's list. One has lots of upside and the other looks really good and could be Seattle's Fleury. I can't recall very many instances recently where a goalie got good value in a trade. Outside the Schneider trade. Lehner went for a late-ish first a few years back? Pretty decent value I suppose.

Frederik Andersen, 1rst and 2nd, yep thats all I got

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1 hour ago, HKSR said:

We keep both.  Re-sign Marky, and work out a deal with Seattle to not take Demko.  Will likely be costly, but trading Demko would not be a wise move.  I'd rather trade our 1st round pick away to Seattle than to lose Demko. 

 

1 hour ago, Lazurus said:

After the protected who is there for them to take that the team can't live without?

There are about 20 teams right now that would not mind an upgrade in goal, either as a starter or backup. TO's playoffs chances just might depend on a good backup, the guy they got isn't up Demko or Markstrom standards.

 

Even if Eriksson retires the cap hit is over 5 mil for next year much lower the year after.

 

One other thing is the bonuses, claw backs and buyouts on the books, - 9+ mil off the cap before adding one player to it.

 

Demko will be the best player option from the Canucks for Seattle, the rest can be protected.

 

The big salary dump to make it under the cap is another thread all by itself, ie; Now - 30,000.00+ cap space, 14 mil on LTIR

You have to remember Demko will not want to be a backup when his contract is up at end of next season...

So say Markstrom signs for 6 million --- Demko will also want a raise and more playing time very soon..

So by next May Benning will have to trade away one of these goalies and this is so important because we will get a 1st rounder and good prospect in return..

Trading one of these goalies is a must as we need the great return in a trade? There are 5 or 6 teams that would really want one of these goalies..

So teams that need a goalie, Buffalo, Carolina, Edmonton, Kings, Ottawa....Exciting to think of what we get in return in trade..

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1 hour ago, NUCKER67 said:

Spring 2020 - Markstrom re-signs, Canucks make the 2nd round of the playoffs and give TB the 1st

 

2020/21 season - Markstrom/Demko tandem, Hoglander and Tryamkin join, Canucks make the conference finals

 

Summer 2021 - Benning makes a deal with SEA to leave Demko in VAN

 

Fall 2021 - Seattle team originates, Podkolzin and Woo join

 

Summer 2022 - Canucks win the Cup

 

Draft 2022 - Demko traded for a 1st

 

We don't want to make any deals with Seattle...Teams did this with Vegas and results were not good.. Florida give up two good prospects so Vegas would not touch some prospect? Results these 2 florida players are now top 6 players on the Vegas team..

So need to trade one of the goalies before expansion draft... 

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Seattle has so many choices of goaltenders, many write it up here as there best and only option.

 

Our roster will be very appealling amongst skaters too:

a) Seven forwards, three defensemen and one goaltender

b) Eight skaters (forwards/defensemen) and one goaltender

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11 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

I think the poster brings up an interesting debate and one, IMO, that should be dealt with sooner than later...…….

Today, Markstrom is playing lights out, but earlier this month Demko back stopped the Canucks to a 3 -1 victory over St. Louis

and looked perfectly in control of a hard fought game.

It is a perfect problem to have, if not for an unknown Cap and the Expansion draft.

To trade Markstrom or sign him, is only part of the question, as Demko's new contract, next year will still be up in the air,

and if Markstrom is traded, then Demko has new leverage, being the only true goalie on the club.

So, either way, we have a goaltending controversy!  LOL

 

To me, all things being equal, there are 2 questions...……….

 

1. Is 5 years of Markstrom worth more than 10 years of Demko?

2. Who gives us better cap control?

 

For me it is easy......for Benning, I am sure it is not!

 

the third question that comes to my mind, is...………..

 

3. Which goalie brings in the most return on a trade today? Because ultimately, we can not afford both goalies and

    IMO, if you are going to trade a goalie, Trading him while he is doing well, gives us the biggest bang. 

 

The other thing that should be considered is, exactly what kind of return, does each goalie return? Obviously Markstrom brings more

than Demko, but Demko's contract being RFA, he guarantees a certain amount of control, as he can't just walk.

 

Value wise...……..Markstrom's value is a 1st and an prospect and Demko being a 1st, or a late first and a prospect, with Marky's return being a little 

more, being that he is having such an excellent season.

 

To me, Demko gives us the better advantage, long term, and I believe he is good enough to be a starter. I would eat this year, if I had to, to bring in the best return.

 

That is about it for me...……….

I have to agree with you here for the most part. I feel we are at the crossroads where the Canadians had 25 year old Halak playing lights out and much to everyones surprise moved him in favor of 22 yearold unproven and thus far out performed Price. 

 

 https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/halak-blues/

Canadiens general manager Pierre Gauthier called it "big picture decision," in which the team’s scouts and managers opted for the long-term potential of the 22-year-old Price, the fifth overall draft pick of 2005, over the more immediate success from the 25-year-old Halak.

The trade was widely panned by Habs fans on Twitter and other websites within minutes of its completion. Most felt that Price should have been dealt and, if not, the team should have got more for the goalie who was the main reason Montreal upset Washington and Pittsburgh in the playoffs.

A "shame," a "nightmare," and "April Fool’s in June" were among the comments posted on one website.

In the House of Commons in Ottawa, Liberal MP Justin Trudeau said "What? Halak for two hockey sticks and a bag of magic beans?"

Halak was the Canadiens’ player of the year in 2009-10, when he went 26-13-5 and was fifth among NHL goalies in save percentage at .940 and ninth in goals-against average at 2.40. Price was 13-20-5 with a 2.77 average and a .912 save percentage.

 

I imagine trading Markstom will be an incredibly unpopular decision. In my experience even very good goaltenders don't get very much in return via trade especially in this scenario. The way I see it if we trade Marky we loose someone else in the entry draft, may not be worth it. I can't help but feel like the best option here is to sign him for full value and allow Seattle to take him. it's a tough pill but it keeps JB's hands relatively clean and we get to keep our team intact. I think 30 other GM's in the league know were over a barrel here I would be shocked if any of them offered fair value for Markstrom. The player we get to keep in the ED may be superior to any return offered on Marky. 

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1 hour ago, hammertime said:

I have to agree with you here for the most part. I feel we are at the crossroads where the Canadians had 25 year old Halak playing lights out and much to everyones surprise moved him in favor of 22 yearold unproven and thus far out performed Price. 

 

 https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/halak-blues/

Canadiens general manager Pierre Gauthier called it "big picture decision," in which the team’s scouts and managers opted for the long-term potential of the 22-year-old Price, the fifth overall draft pick of 2005, over the more immediate success from the 25-year-old Halak.

The trade was widely panned by Habs fans on Twitter and other websites within minutes of its completion. Most felt that Price should have been dealt and, if not, the team should have got more for the goalie who was the main reason Montreal upset Washington and Pittsburgh in the playoffs.

A "shame," a "nightmare," and "April Fool’s in June" were among the comments posted on one website.

In the House of Commons in Ottawa, Liberal MP Justin Trudeau said "What? Halak for two hockey sticks and a bag of magic beans?"

Halak was the Canadiens’ player of the year in 2009-10, when he went 26-13-5 and was fifth among NHL goalies in save percentage at .940 and ninth in goals-against average at 2.40. Price was 13-20-5 with a 2.77 average and a .912 save percentage.

 

I imagine trading Markstom will be an incredibly unpopular decision. In my experience even very good goaltenders don't get very much in return via trade especially in this scenario. The way I see it if we trade Marky we loose someone else in the entry draft, may not be worth it. I can't help but feel like the best option here is to sign him for full value and allow Seattle to take him. it's a tough pill but it keeps JB's hands relatively clean and we get to keep our team intact. I think 30 other GM's in the league know were over a barrel here I would be shocked if any of them offered fair value for Markstrom. The player we get to keep in the ED may be superior to any return offered on Marky. 

Thanks for the vote of confidence Hammer

 

Interesting, who we protect.....Petterson, Miller, Boeser, Horvat, Pearson, Virtanen, and Gaudette...…leaves who? Leivo, Motte, Roussel, Beagle and Sutter eligible

Hughes and Tryamkin are exempt...………….so Edler, Tanev, and Juolevi are protected...……..leaving Sketcher, Brisebois, and Saunter eligible

Trade a goalie and protect a goalie and expose...…………..McIntyre eligible

 

So, we loose one of Leivo, Motte or Sketcher, if we don't spend a 4th to protect both Motte and Leivo and if Sketcher is not traded before the expansion draft. I don't think anyone touches Ferland with his concussion issues...To bad!

 

But in saying all that...Benning made a big push this year, and traded for Miller, and signed Myers, and Ferland, so I do not see him, packing it in and trading Markstrom

_______________________

 

So question on the value of goalies

So Demko was drafted 36 OA....that was based on his potential to be a starter, which would be at approx. 30 to 40% that he reach his ceiling as a 2nd rounder

Now after 7 years, he has shown to be an NHL goalie, that has 7 years invested in him, and is showing to be just that ( a young developing starter)

His chance of reaching his ceiling has now risen to at least 90% to 95% that he reaches his ceiling...….

Now if at his draft year, he would have had a 90% that he reach his ceiling, he would have been a top 10 OA pick or close to it...……….

So why is it that everybody says we would not get much for him at his young age?

IMO, he brings in a 20-to 30 OA pick, and possibly a prospect

Just a thought I have been thinking about for awhile

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@Lazurus

 This is the route i would go if i were GM

 

Re-sign Markstrom to 1 year 7 million,

 

the following year he is a UFA during the expansion draft and the canucks only need to sign a backup/ veteran to offer up to Seattle.

 

Then marky and demko both have contracts up at the same time and the decision will be made then on their future.

 

If marky wants to sign for 3x5m after the 7 million dollar contract, sign him.

 

Then hopefully Demko will sign for around 5-6 million per year and then once Markys up( 2025?) Demko get a raise using the money from marky.

 

20/21

marky 7x1

Demko 1.5x1

 

2021/22

Demko 4.5x3

Marky 6.5x3

2022/2023

2023/2024

2024/2025

let marky go

Re-sign Thatcher long term

 

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17 minutes ago, GhostsOf1994 said:

Re-sign Markstrom to 1 year 7 million,

Does Markstrom have a say about this idea? If so, why would he sign a one year deal, risking a career injury, and leave many millions sitting on someone else's table?

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Scenario: Markstrom is obstinate on either $/term, that Van doesn't accept.

 

NYI's call with an offer:

 

Markstrom, Sutter, Stecher, 2020 4th

 

Return: Greiss, Ryan Pulock, Fritz(ahl C), 2020 2nd, 2021 2nd(cond on JM signing)

 

It's about 10 mill outgoing, & half that number incoming. Cap is much easier to manage next season.

2020-21, Myers, Tryamkin, Pulock & Rafferty are a very impressive RH-D

Sutter's Dad starred in Long Isle, & they need fwds(apparently). Let them take the gamble on his health, that has burned us continuously.

Greiss only helps this season, to hopefully nail down a PO-spot. Basically TD is the man. If TG likes it here, & signs cheaply to back up, that's cool

 

Would anyone accept this offer from NYI?

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16 hours ago, 6string said:

Seattle has so many choices of goaltenders, many write it up here as there best and only option.

 

Our roster will be very appealling amongst skaters too:

a) Seven forwards, three defensemen and one goaltender

b) Eight skaters (forwards/defensemen) and one goaltender

Who? Seattle's choice of goalies? Canuck players?

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8 hours ago, GhostsOf1994 said:

 

Re-sign Markstrom to 1 year 7 million,

Might get past the expansion problem but then you have two goalies without contracts to deal with and decision time again, plus there is nothing to stop Seattle from just signing Markstrom AND taking a Canuck player.

20 hours ago, Junkyard Dog said:

Demko isn't getting a first.

I don't disagree, I don't think they could get a 1rst back for him, maybe a late first 24+ but then it is what Seattle might demand of the team not to select him.

19 hours ago, N7Nucks said:

Unless someone offers a top 10-15 pick for Marky or Demko I say just let Seattle take one, assuming they do in fact take one. I haven't looked too in-depth at potential goalies being exposed from other teams. But you have to imagine Demko and Marky would be pretty high on Seattle's list. One has lots of upside and the other looks really good and could be Seattle's Fleury. I can't recall very many instances recently where a goalie got good value in a trade. Outside the Schneider trade. Lehner went for a late-ish first a few years back? Pretty decent value I suppose.

There is no "one", it is Demko period unless Markstrom isn't here or doesn't get his NMC that he wants, then it is a "pick'em", but the Canucks LOSE no matter what/

16 hours ago, Winter Soldier said:

Marky playing himself into the Vezina and (dare we dream?) the Hart conversation and people still want him out.

 

Madness.

Read the problem, Markstrom or Demko go, there is no "want" to it except if losing one, get something, anything back.

 

9 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

Interesting, who we protect.....Petterson, Miller, Boeser, Horvat, Pearson, Virtanen, and Gaudette...…leaves who? Leivo, Motte, Roussel, Beagle and Sutter eligible

Hughes and Tryamkin are exempt...………….so Edler, Tanev, and Juolevi are protected...……..leaving Sketcher, Brisebois, and Saunter eligible

Trade a goalie and protect a goalie and expose...…………..McIntyre eligible

Have to protect those clause contracts Benning gave out;

Edler - NMC

Myers - NMC

Ferland - NMC

Eriksson - better than NMC:lol:

Markstrom? Wants a NMC, Most players are getting what they want here, so let's give him a NMC.

 

And then there are the other clause contracts for the old guys;

Sutter - MNTC

Roussel - MNTC

Beagle - MNTC

Tanev? Might not be here but he will want at least the same as Edler so grant him a NMC.

 

Man the thread went way beyond the topic.

 

Think of it this way; Doctor says you have 5 years to live or 10 years, what do you want? Obviously not that serious, this is just hockey after all but team life, hows that?

 

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I mean, Myers only has a NMC for this season. Edler is a UFA next season and I don't think he is even eligible for the draft anyway because of that. We don't need to protect Eriksson so it doesn't matter if they want him or not. Sutters contract expires before the expansion draft. Not even sure why you brought him up. Management is probably gonna try get Marky on a 2 year deal and hope that's enough to deter Seattle and then they'll likely protect Demko. Even if Seattle takes Marky oh well. Demko will have 2 years of NHL experience by the time of the expansion draft. DiPietro will have two full seasons of AHL. We'll be okay. 

 

If we trade Marky, Seattle takes someone else. Now we have a hole where we would not have had one if we just let them take Marky. That's assuming they even want a 31 year old goalie potentially on a 1 year deal (if they sign him to the 2 year deal I think they are trying for). 

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10 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

Thanks for the vote of confidence Hammer

 

Interesting, who we protect.....Petterson, Miller, Boeser, Horvat, Pearson, Virtanen, and Gaudette...…leaves who? Leivo, Motte, Roussel, Beagle and Sutter eligible

Hughes and Tryamkin are exempt...………….so Edler, Tanev, and Juolevi are protected...……..leaving Sketcher, Brisebois, and Saunter eligible

Trade a goalie and protect a goalie and expose...…………..McIntyre eligible

 

So, we loose one of Leivo, Motte or Sketcher, if we don't spend a 4th to protect both Motte and Leivo and if Sketcher is not traded before the expansion draft. I don't think anyone touches Ferland with his concussion issues...To bad!

 

But in saying all that...Benning made a big push this year, and traded for Miller, and signed Myers, and Ferland, so I do not see him, packing it in and trading Markstrom

_______________________

 

So question on the value of goalies

So Demko was drafted 36 OA....that was based on his potential to be a starter, which would be at approx. 30 to 40% that he reach his ceiling as a 2nd rounder

Now after 7 years, he has shown to be an NHL goalie, that has 7 years invested in him, and is showing to be just that ( a young developing starter)

His chance of reaching his ceiling has now risen to at least 90% to 95% that he reaches his ceiling...….

Now if at his draft year, he would have had a 90% that he reach his ceiling, he would have been a top 10 OA pick or close to it...……….

So why is it that everybody says we would not get much for him at his young age?

IMO, he brings in a 20-to 30 OA pick, and possibly a prospect

Just a thought I have been thinking about for awhile

Value and return are 2 different things. In the scenario we're in I see very little chance that JB can extract full value in return. For either goaltender.

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