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DarkIndianRises

The Canucks lack of possession numbers and bleeding high danger chances

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8 minutes ago, DarkIndianRises said:

While the Canucks are still a work in progress and aren’t a “finished product” as they were between 2010-2013, my concern is that Markstrom is going to burn out if he keeps having to work this hard.......which ultimately means that if the Canucks sign Markstrom to a long term deal, his body could start to break down mid way.

 

Again through - the Canucks will obviously be a better team over these next few years, but they really do have to figure out how to adddress this possession/high danger chance situation.

We need to play a smarter system.  

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6 minutes ago, DarkIndianRises said:

While the Canucks are still a work in progress and aren’t a “finished product” as they were between 2010-2013, my concern is that Markstrom is going to burn out if he keeps having to work this hard.......which ultimately means that if the Canucks sign Markstrom to a long term deal, his body could start to break down mid way.

 

Again through - the Canucks will obviously be a better team over these next few years, but they really do have to figure out how to adddress this possession/high danger chance situation.

I would be alot more concerned about relying on a young goalie with a seemingly high number of concussions as a long term strategy.  

 

Markstrom is earning a substantial raise.  It is obvious to everyone that the Canucks cannot go beyond a certain number due to the Lou retirement and the recapture.  

 

If that means Marky walks, the  there is nothing we can do.  Its BS and should be rescinded but in the immortal words of Jared McCann, 'It is what it is.'

 

Marky has a choice, go for the money or the glory.  If he stays it will be a 6x6 full NTC type deal.  That means Demko is exposed.  Marky has earned that type of deal and has been our best player for the past 1.5 years easily.  He has added some muscle and seems able to handle a lot of minutes and gets better with more work. 

 

Mikey is looking alot like a goalie of the future type as well.  Even as a back up I see him as being able to fill Demko's shoes fairly well.  

 

Keep the MVP.  

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As long as the team is tracking towards the playoffs, don't expect any kind of significant changes.


The D zone system Green has the team playing is a one size fits all attempt to make something which applies across the board, across not only personel changes, but over a whole season.

 

It relies on stellar goal tending for shots that (theoretically) come more from the outside that not, even tho the Canucks are near or on top of the league for giving up the most HQ shots in the league!

 

And it is particularly ineffective against teams who can zip the puck around the perimeter, in the complete circle that this team concedes, by design, (Keep that in mind) around the entire perimeter of the D zone.

 

I've spent a lot of time this season watching video and thinking about the system, and the biggest cross ice wtf HQ chances against, come from when the team is in the window of breaking formation from man/puck pursuit, to setting up the 5 man middle of the ice system. Its an inevitable part of this kind of system, because it simply takes time to not only get your head right, but to actually get into position. Teams and their coaches are not dumb, and they see this, and I guarantee you that they all lick their chops in anticipation for when this window opens.

 

I expect this team to get into the playoffs, but unless Green has a trick up his sleeve to change the way they manage the puck.. we are probably in for some heartache against the first team we face with above average passing prowess.

Edited by xereau
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21 minutes ago, DarkIndianRises said:

While the Canucks are still a work in progress and aren’t a “finished product” as they were between 2010-2013, my concern is that Markstrom is going to burn out if he keeps having to work this hard.......which ultimately means that if the Canucks sign Markstrom to a long term deal, his body could start to break down mid way.

 

Again through - the Canucks will obviously be a better team over these next few years, but they really do have to figure out how to adddress this possession/high danger chance situation.

I have the same worries.   Until the players develop more and or systems start to changes the tide, TG will keep playing his top horse to even the odds.   Right now we are like PIT lite - that is we rely heavy on goaltending and the counter-attack.   Both PIT cups they were middling possession teams - they rope a doped their way to the cup with stellar goaltending and two of the best centres in the world plus a couple of snipers (Guentzal and Kessel).   

 

Our strengths are goaltending, secondary scoring and depth in that order.   Our defense and lack of experience are weaknesses.   All these things are important...

 

Podz was considered the best puck hound/possession player in last years draft.  Scouts said unilaterally that what he does best is "get you" and "get the puck back" ... if this translates to the NHL level he will become both a fan favourite and a vital cog in this cores window.

 

I don't have any expectations this year - but definitely am starting to get them for later down the road - the team does need to pull it together and reel it in a bit in just letting Markstrom make the saves and bail them out.  It's noticeable that when Demko is in net they are more responsible (that's not unusual for a lot of teams) - to get to the next level they need to bring the same intensity when Markstrom plays.  I do think they will get there.   And although I have zero expectations - I have some hope come spring time we can do some damage.

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imo, you have to take each player and examine if the system is wrong or if they can’t execute the system. petey and boes have the most trouble in their own end and guys like myers, benn and somewhat stech have trouble moving the puck when hard checked. 

the players that are best in their own zone are tanev, fantenberg and edler part of the time, miller, pearson, sutter, eriksson and motte.

pettersson, miller, boeser, horvat and hughes are the best in the offensive zone. 

gaudette and virtanen are growing in their development but still have growing to do. 

when it comes to systems, nhl coaches know what their players can do and what kind of a system they need to play. as fans we have opinions but truth be known, we have not the expertise that the professionals do. 

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not sure I'd use the term "bleeding" but we're about middle of the pack in high danger shots and goals against. 

 

we have 70 hdgf and 67 hdsa. ANA only has 59 against. So need to take these numbers in context. 

 

But it would be nice if we could tighten things up and have more than just Hughes and Jake be able to carry the puck out consistently. 

 

you can see all the numbers here: https://www.naturalstattrick.com/teamtable.php

 

 

Edited by Jimmy McGill
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45 minutes ago, DarkIndianRises said:

While the Canucks are still a work in progress and aren’t a “finished product” as they were between 2010-2013, my concern is that Markstrom is going to burn out if he keeps having to work this hard.......which ultimately means that if the Canucks sign Markstrom to a long term deal, his body could start to break down mid way.

 

Again through - the Canucks will obviously be a better team over these next few years, but they really do have to figure out how to adddress this possession/high danger chance situation.

We will be a better team next year, for sure, but we won't necessarily have a better record. This year's team has relied on Markstrom too much for it to be sustainable. Even if/when we get better next year, our "luck" factor may regress to the mean, and we may end up with a similar or even worse record. It happens all the time. 

 

I say this because I almost feel like some people expect to take a linear route to improving in terms accomplishments. Eg. this season we make the playoffs, next season we go further, the season after we're a cup contender, and the season after we're champs. 99% of the time it doesn't work like that: there will very likely be growing pains, not in terms of just a couple of games, but sometimes in terms of entire seasons. We just gotta know that we have a really good young core that we can work with, that can do something special, even during the lows.

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Young guys tend to flag at this time of year.

 

Not 'blaming' youth - but realistically, guys like Gaudette, EP, Boeser (and replacement rookies - are not yet great possession players - and are relative liabilities inside their own blueline).

Add to that - the repeated losses of key bottom six guys - the hard to play against and shutdown guys - not only effects who is in the lineup, but also effects those still in the lineup - their workload gets heavier, and those guys still standing get exhausted.  Part of the reason I don't expect Horvat to carry the wood down the stretch - he's got to be tired at this stage...

Sutter, Beagle, Motte, Roussel, Ferland, Leivo - these guys have all missed 20+ games or more....that's a heavy toll overlapping in one area of the lineup.

 

On the other hand, I'm not terribly concerned with corsi samples, for a number of reasons.

One of those is how dangerous this team is when it generates it's chances - it is capable of finishing - and that is huge.  It's also capable of bending, and we've all seen how Markstrom responds when he's called upon.

The other positives - the relative health of their blueline this year.

And the transition game they are capable of - particularly with  that Hughes Tanev pairing.  They can flat out drive something at any time - as long as they have Hughes skating and moving the puck as he's capable, they are going to cause fits - and they can counterpunch against momentum - something you see in most if not all of the great teams (some of whom are noted counterpunching teams).

 

If those factors, particularly the depleted veteran forward group, were not present, I'd be more concerned, but that, along with the resiliency (unheard of in these parts) of the blueline - and their two goaltenders = not that concerned, particularly over the longer run (when they ought to be both healthier in their bottom six, and increasingly developed in their core).

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1 hour ago, DarkIndianRises said:

Don’t get me wrong and associate me with those whiny pissants from HF Canucks.   I’m a true fan of this team and am very happy and excited that we’re likely headed to the playoffs.   Regardless of how we do in the playoffs, getting in there is a huge first step for the organization.

 

Having said that - the Canucks need to figure out a way to increase their possession numbers and bleed less high danger chances. 
 

Maybe it’s just me, but it seems like teams have figured out how to play us as of late, and I’ve noticed this since the Boston game.   We are t getting a lot of room to skate, and opposing players are collapsing around their nets whenever we do have chances to shoot.   
 

what do we have to do to improve in these areas? .   Do the Canucks need another defenseman?   Do we need another top six scorer?    Do coaching adjustments need to be made?    
 

Like I said earlier - please don’t confuse with me with the tards over at HF Canucks, but our lack of team possession numbers along with our surrendering of high danger chances is becoming concerning to me.  

Dude... JB did his job adding pieces we needed up front to put goals in the net, next as he said himself is more work on D then see how it goes which is fine.. good job

 In the middle of it, we have our young guys still learning and trying to perfect their 200ft game and still put up points, plus our team looks much different than last year and TG has had to shuffle lines etc, so can you see how it's normal and it will slowly change as things move forward? 

Nit picking details is kind of pointless especially since we're supposed to be in last place in the league but here we are still in the playoff picture.. 

 If you look back at when the Oilers got their 1st picks and new players, with the exception of McD and Drai's, they were way worse but when new players are added to a team possession numbers are bound to drop before they get better...

If this is still a problem in 2-3 yrs then yes we're in trouble but this team with tweaks and everyone with more experience with each other will only get better.... Relax and enjoy the ride... 

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1 hour ago, VegasCanuck said:

Too many guys who are shot suppressors are out of the lineup. We miss Motte more than most people realize.

 

Funny you say that, I seen a stat on Sports Net about this. We are a .500 hockey team without Motte and 10 games over .500 with Motte in the line up. I know it's not all Motte, but...

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1 hour ago, DarkIndianRises said:

what do we have to do to improve in these areas?  

Have patience.

 

We were never going to be a legitimate Cup threat this year. We're on pace to be exactly what we thought we were, a bubble team and likely an easy first round out. And that's okay. Even if we get absolutely slaughtered it'll be motivation heading into the off-season for the kids.

 

We're still filled with a bunch of temporary plug in players and a ways away from having a defined core, especially on the back end. Those things will come into their own over time as we find out what we have in our prospects.

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This team needs to straighten up defensively, they're playing offence like a top 10 team, defending like a bottom 10 team and goaltending like a top 5 team. Not a bad recipe but it's going to get exposed badly near the end of the season and the playoffs.

 

This is on Green to tighten up our defensive structure because it's not one or two guys, it's everyone.

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I think their game took a hit recently because they haven't had too much practice time. They managed to get wins on the backs of stellar goaltending, but I imagine they will be fresh on Sunday. 

Feb. 1-12 canucks had 8 games with no two day gaps. I think now with a few days off they can tighten up their play and address that gaping wound that is our back end. 

Practice makes perfect... or so I'm lead to believe. 

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1 hour ago, VegasCanuck said:

Too many guys who are shot suppressors are out of the lineup. We miss Motte more than most people realize.

 

tenor.gif?itemid=4949468

Can't help but think that Motte is the rug...at least we'll get him back.

 

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11 minutes ago, iceman64 said:

Dude... JB did his job adding pieces we needed up front to put goals in the net, next as he said himself is more work on D then see how it goes which is fine.. good job

 In the middle of it, we have our young guys still learning and trying to perfect their 200ft game and still put up points, plus our team looks much different than last year and TG has had to shuffle lines etc, so can you see how it's normal and it will slowly change as things move forward? 

Nit picking details is kind of pointless especially since we're supposed to be in last place in the league but here we are still in the playoff picture.. 

 If you look back at when the Oilers got their 1st picks and new players, with the exception of McD and Drai's, they were way worse but when new players are added to a team possession numbers are bound to drop before they get better...

If this is still a problem in 2-3 yrs then yes we're in trouble but this team with tweaks and everyone with more experience with each other will only get better.... Relax and enjoy the ride... 

This is exactly where I sit on this as well. The way I see it, we're working with what we have and the issues are being tackled in stages.

 

We've finally got scoring and contributions across the board to compensate, forwards also playing more responsibily sound, and our goaltending is where it needs to be in order to keep us in games.

 

We really need to remember 2-3 years ago when our goalies - Miller and Marky - were standing on their heads, keeping us competitive, only to have no depth and our forwards and D unable to score. That's been solved in a short amount of time and will only get better as our youth mature.

 

Our D is still a work in progress and this season is exposing the weaknesses that remain. And like the evolution to date, I'm confident JB will address more of those weaknesses next season. There's a lot going right but we still need to see what this team really is as we get closer to playoffs. 

 

And like you say, a lot of our young guys are still learning. We still have more young guys, forward and D, to get here and gain experience. 

 

Look at the progression from 2-3 years ago. There's enough going in the right direction organically to say 2-3 years from now we'll be even better and these issues will be behind us ... or at least much more manageable.

 

Not concerned right now. We're making the best of what we have and sitting atop our division because of it.

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10 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

tenor.gif?itemid=4949468

Can't help but think that Motte is the rug...at least we'll get him back.

 

One of my favorite movies. Have you seen that John Turturro is doing a stand alone movie for his character? The Jesus Rolls

 

 

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