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TDL Strategy; Think Now, or Look Ahead?

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9 hours ago, spook007 said:

Don't quite understand here... If its Bennings make or break year, why on earth would he trade away Markstrom and run with demo and DP? as well as moving Tanev? 

I get you want cap space, but I don't see has this will make or break Benning.

This would be saying we don't care if we miss the Play offs or get knocked out in round 1.

Think this is a bad signal to send to the youngsters in this team, who hopefully is about to try play offs hockey for the first time.

The team is re-building.

 

If he signs Markstrom, then what he said before about Demko when talking about young players and the future is either a lie or it shows he is just not following a plan because if he signs Markstrom then Demko is gone, either through the Seattle draft or because Demko wants to be a starter to make more money and he is ready now.

 

Showing strong leadership by sticking to the concept of getting something for expiring assets instead of nothing to help finish off the rebuild. The youngsters, all four of them, Jake, Quinton, Elias and Brock, are not enough in numbers to be finished yet. While they look to be capable of leading the team in Vancouver we have seen one line teams for a long time, with a constant refrain of "a second scoring line" or secondary scoring. And at this time those young players are not driving the game as it gets closer to the playoffs.

 

Do you think this team could beat Dallas, St Louis or Colorado, Calgary for that matter in a seven game series? With hitting? If you do you don't even have to go to Vegas to place your $100 bet they win the cup, the odds are Already there is complaints about uncalled penalties on Pettersson and it gets worse in the playoffs.

 

This is a good signal to the youngsters in that the GM has confidence in them to take over and is willing to spend to get them more to help, confidence in Demko and getting something, maybe significant for players leaving, creating capspace for the enxt year so the team can pay and not have to get rid of players just to make room, like that would not add pressure to perform, "the team got rid of ? and ? to pay me"

 

You see this idea as a negative, when it is so positive it is silly it isn't posted even more, the team is close, but still needs a little bit more, it needs young players playing on the team not in the minors. Every year some prospects are named as making the team next year, in some cases the same prospects as 3 years ago, but they are not here, another top under 24 player(s) will be needed.

 

Benning gets cap control and space, more picks or prospects under 24, doesn't have to shop a player around like he has had to do with Baesrtschi (no takers), shows to the public he has followed a plan, you can't think he knew that Hughes and Pettersson would be this good, remember they wanted to send Pettersson down to Utica at the start of last year, similar with Boeser and Horvat, they didn't think they would be that good, every really good player has made the team at first opportunity 

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1 hour ago, stawns said:

Pulling the rug out from under the young guys is probably the stupidest move to be made at this point.  Getting into the playoffs and getting experience, regardless of the outcome, should be the absolute priority.  Trading veterans with invaluable experience is beyond stupid.

You have little faith that the team is good then. Demko is not good enough to replace Markstrom, even if Markstrom is hurt. All the more reason then to add more youth to the rebuild and maybe get up to 10 players all 26 and under al with 3 years of each other.

You post like the rebuild is done and it is all out for a cup run.

Fine

You get your wish, they sign Markstrom for 6.5 mil, the current rate for goalies around his numbers, he gets his NMC, the team exposes Demko.

He re-signs Taneve to Edler numbers and clauses so 6 mil with a NMC.

The teams has to payout Luongo- 3 mil- Spooner - 1 mil, bonuses - 4.9 mil totaling 9 mil off the cap next year.

Then they have to resign the rest - add another 7 mil or so.

Of course there is Pettersson next season but hey lets just wing it when that happens.

 

So because you have no confidence in the young players you have added an additional 12 mil or so in salary. Don't forget this team is OVER the cap right now, it is only LTIR that is keeping them under.

 

So to make room next year, every team in the league knows they have to shed salary so most will do a usual and demand a very high pick in return with the bad salary. The lack of confidence is now costing into the future, maybe the next 2 or 3 years because many of the players on this team under contract are over 30 and declining.

 

All because yo actually beleive they are cup contenders with this old group of players, take a look, this team is as old as when the Sedins were here and a rebuild was needed.

 

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1 minute ago, Lazurus said:

You have little faith that the team is good then. Demko is not good enough to replace Markstrom, even if Markstrom is hurt. All the more reason then to add more youth to the rebuild and maybe get up to 10 players all 26 and under al with 3 years of each other.

You post like the rebuild is done and it is all out for a cup run.

Fine

You get your wish, they sign Markstrom for 6.5 mil, the current rate for goalies around his numbers, he gets his NMC, the team exposes Demko.

He re-signs Taneve to Edler numbers and clauses so 6 mil with a NMC.

The teams has to payout Luongo- 3 mil- Spooner - 1 mil, bonuses - 4.9 mil totaling 9 mil off the cap next year.

Then they have to resign the rest - add another 7 mil or so.

Of course there is Pettersson next season but hey lets just wing it when that happens.

 

So because you have no confidence in the young players you have added an additional 12 mil or so in salary. Don't forget this team is OVER the cap right now, it is only LTIR that is keeping them under.

 

So to make room next year, every team in the league knows they have to shed salary so most will do a usual and demand a very high pick in return with the bad salary. The lack of confidence is now costing into the future, maybe the next 2 or 3 years because many of the players on this team under contract are over 30 and declining.

 

All because yo actually beleive they are cup contenders with this old group of players, take a look, this team is as old as when the Sedins were here and a rebuild was needed.

 

taylor swift what GIF

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16 hours ago, Lazurus said:

The team is re-building.

 

If he signs Markstrom, then what he said before about Demko when talking about young players and the future is either a lie or it shows he is just not following a plan because if he signs Markstrom then Demko is gone, either through the Seattle draft or because Demko wants to be a starter to make more money and he is ready now.

 

Showing strong leadership by sticking to the concept of getting something for expiring assets instead of nothing to help finish off the rebuild. The youngsters, all four of them, Jake, Quinton, Elias and Brock, are not enough in numbers to be finished yet. While they look to be capable of leading the team in Vancouver we have seen one line teams for a long time, with a constant refrain of "a second scoring line" or secondary scoring. And at this time those young players are not driving the game as it gets closer to the playoffs.

 

Do you think this team could beat Dallas, St Louis or Colorado, Calgary for that matter in a seven game series? With hitting? If you do you don't even have to go to Vegas to place your $100 bet they win the cup, the odds are Already there is complaints about uncalled penalties on Pettersson and it gets worse in the playoffs.

 

This is a good signal to the youngsters in that the GM has confidence in them to take over and is willing to spend to get them more to help, confidence in Demko and getting something, maybe significant for players leaving, creating capspace for the enxt year so the team can pay and not have to get rid of players just to make room, like that would not add pressure to perform, "the team got rid of ? and ? to pay me"

 

You see this idea as a negative, when it is so positive it is silly it isn't posted even more, the team is close, but still needs a little bit more, it needs young players playing on the team not in the minors. Every year some prospects are named as making the team next year, in some cases the same prospects as 3 years ago, but they are not here, another top under 24 player(s) will be needed.

 

Benning gets cap control and space, more picks or prospects under 24, doesn't have to shop a player around like he has had to do with Baesrtschi (no takers), shows to the public he has followed a plan, you can't think he knew that Hughes and Pettersson would be this good, remember they wanted to send Pettersson down to Utica at the start of last year, similar with Boeser and Horvat, they didn't think they would be that good, every really good player has made the team at first opportunity 

If this is Benning make or break year, being a bottom feeder for the 5th year running would be breaking him.

Doubt owners would continue to support him, if he was no closer to the play off this year than in the previous years.

 

And while the team is still rebuilding, it fair to suggest that at this stage Benning is looking for the team to make the play offs. If he didn't, what was the point of trading a first and a third to get Miller?

 

He wants the players to have a taste of it, even though they are not the finished articles.

The main blocks are here already... however they need maturing, and while they mature, the supporting cast will be the more expensive, but experienced vets ....

In a few years when EP, Brock, Bo, Gauds, Jake and Quinn all have matured, they will be amongst the vets, and the supporting cast will be coming mainly from drafted players and some free agency/traded players.... but the majority will hopefully already be within the organisation.

 

The team is getting young players coming through every year...

The youngsters will get the opportunity, if/when they are good enough... not just because they are young.

And once they get these opportunities, its up to them to take it... just like Gaudette did.

 

Marky is now one of the leaders on this team... If they trade him now, the chances of reaching the playoff will worsen... and while, at this stage, its not about winning the cup (although as everyone knows, once you are in there's always a chance...), its about giving the new core players the chance to see, what playing in the playoffs means.... and for Benning to see, what changes needs to be made.

 

Demko is far from the finished article. Running him as no.1 could ruin his development. When/if managements thinks he's ready to take the rein/they will hand him the rein. Nothing suggests he’s able yet. Getting rid of Marky would be a bad signal to send.

 

Do I think they can win the cup yet, no I don't.... but it doesn't mean, I don't want them to reach the play offs. 

 

At the start of the season they were predicted by most here to be a bubble team...maybe they’d make it, maybe they wouldn’t , but to be in the hunt... just like they are, all while the core matures... 

 

If Benning can swing a few trades getting a bit of toughness, it would be great. 

But the price is likely going to be steep, so there is a huge question mark over, whether he should do so now, or during the Summer instead.

 

 

 

 

Edited by spook007
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Looks like it's a sellers' market, but we also need to make the playoffs so our young guys get invaluable experience. 

I would focus on moving some of our forwards--like Sutter--for draft picks. We already allow too many shots and moving shot suppression guys like Tanev or puck retrieval guys like Stecher would be too costly. The right move is for Benning to be conservative, and blowing up that defense would be a mistake. It might be too costly to add a defenseman. A lot goes down to what phone calls he gets. 

Edited by NaveJoseph

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I think trading Markstrom is suicide for this years’ chances could easily miss the playoffs in that Scenario

 

it does however look like a sellers market.  Therefore I think it would be wise to trade Tanev for multiple reasons:

1) Probly would get a first which should be a player for us for a long time

2) Tanev is getting older despite his leadership qualities 

3) Tanev’s value could plummet with an injury

4) our cap situation is extremely tight with raise to JV Markstrom. Then Hughes, Petey

5) solid replacements available: Rafferty, Tryamkin also Schenn, Bogosian.
6) solid chance we lose Tanev in the off-season for nothing if not traded 

 

i think trading Tanev would hurt our playoff drive but not to the level of trading Markstrom and is the right choice moving forward 

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If it's a sellers market, we should be shopping Pearson whose having a career year and is a pending UFA.

 

I think Stech or Tanev would get us something good. we could recoup a 1st. Rafferty can step in for either imo. 

 

 

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24 minutes ago, Trebreh said:

If it's a sellers market, we should be shopping Pearson whose having a career year and is a pending UFA.

 

I think Stech or Tanev would get us something good. we could recoup a 1st. Rafferty can step in for either imo. 

 

 

Pearson is signed through next season

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This team reminds me of 

 

2007 NHL Western Conference Semi-Finals
Anaheim Ducks defeat Vancouver Canucks 4-1

 

following year, 2008, Canucks miss the playoffs!  Have you seen the roster of the 2008 Canucks, so many of the '11 core are on it.  They start the rise towards 2011 in '09, Hawks beat them in the Playoffs, wings clip the hawks, the Crosby Malkin Penguins end up beating the Wings for the Cup.   

 

Still, in '07, the Canucks beat Dallas in 7 games and made it to the conference semi-finals to take on the eventual Stanley Cup Winners.   I remember Luongo... bathrm break and standing on his head.  Canucks should probably ride the hot goaltender right now.

 

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10 hours ago, Comeback_Kings said:

This team reminds me of 

 

2007 NHL Western Conference Semi-Finals
Anaheim Ducks defeat Vancouver Canucks 4-1

 

following year, 2008, Canucks miss the playoffs!  Have you seen the roster of the 2008 Canucks, so many of the '11 core are on it.  They start the rise towards 2011 in '09, Hawks beat them in the Playoffs, wings clip the hawks, the Crosby Malkin Penguins end up beating the Wings for the Cup.   

 

Still, in '07, the Canucks beat Dallas in 7 games and made it to the conference semi-finals to take on the eventual Stanley Cup Winners.   I remember Luongo... bathrm break and standing on his head.  Canucks should probably ride the hot goaltender right now.

 

I agree with riding the hot goalie. In my season prediction thread i predicted Marky would play 62 games, That's about right for a starter. If he cant handle that workload we are not going anywhere anyways.

I have been very concerned about the signing Markstrom vs exposing Demko to the ED. I am starting to feel we need to sign Marky long term and let the chips fall where they may with Demko. Yesterday was one bad game but it does show development may still be needed with TD.

Demko may still get 4 or so games in down the stretch. Maybe he returns to form in them. We do need a capable back up but once the playoffs hit its going to be Markstroms crease unless an injury were to hit.

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The team has to make cap space in order to add anything. 

Most glaring deficiency is team toughness that is a significant upgrade to Schaller. 

Tim has to go.

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The POs cloud things up. 
making the playoffs has been benning main focus since starting here so with a spot in sight maybe doing things that have more long term benefits will be back burnered. 
we can treat are Own pending ufas like rentals without giving up picks 

moving guys to prepare for the impending lottery and inevitable cap crunch also will be overlooked.

Jimmies never been great at the TDL so standing pat and going with the guys we have makes sense for me .

really Jim’s handcuffed himself cap wise so unless there’s substantial cap going out we can’t afford to add Anyone especially adding someone that actually improves the team. 


 

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8 minutes ago, Toyotasfan said:

The team has to make cap space in order to add anything. 

Most glaring deficiency is team toughness that is a significant upgrade to Schaller. 

Tim has to go.

Nobody wants our ineffective overpaid pressbox superstars we’d have to pay with picks or prospects for anyone to consider taking him, LE is the same. 
-13 non physical fringe 4th liner Schaller has zero value. Most clubs has better options in the farm just like us. 
Big Mac is a vast improvement over Schaller. 
 

sutter is the guy that holds valuable cap space through next season. The often injured 4th liner who has played well the last 4 game might finally have some interest he’d be the guy I’d be looking to move then find a rental that provides what he does but actually finish a body check. 

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On 2/14/2020 at 6:06 PM, johngould21 said:

He didn't get a full game without suffering concussion like symptoms. Not going to happen unfortunately, I think he's on the last of his hockey playing days.

Yeah, Ferland is done this year, and possibly for good. Really too bad, they finally get the guy and he can't play. I could see Benning adding a player at the TDL. They need another good player with size/grit. Hopefully Tryamkin comes back too, because watching the Ducks manhandle the Canucks (Manson's attack on Myers), they need help. Playoffs is a whole different level of tough. Trade Stecher.   

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I hope we stay put unless there are some trades that make sense:

 

- Simmonds 40% retained for Schaller, Baertschi and a 2nd 

- Sign Tryamkin after the TDL with the cap savings from the trade above

 

After TDL:

Miller - Pettersson - Virtanen

Pearson - Horvat - Boeser (MacEwan/Eriksson as long as Boeser is out)

Simmonds - Gaudette - Sutter

Roussel - Beagle - Motte

Depth: Leivo, MacEwan, Eriksson, Bailey, (Ferland LTIR)

 

Hughes - Tanev

Edler - Myers

Tryamkin - Stecher

Fantenberg -Benn

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On 2/15/2020 at 1:38 PM, Provost said:

.........................

 

Literally from the horse’s mouth (his agent).  Nothing about next season, he keeps saying as soon as his season is done.

 

Out of respect for his current team and their playoff hopes, we aren’t going to talk about it until that is done.  As soon as that is done, there is plenty of time to come to engage with the Canucks and work something out.

 

 

https://www.tsn.ca/radio/vancouver-1040/diamond-tryamkin-returning-to-the-canucks-is-definitely-on-the-table-his-goal-is-to-return-to-vancouver-1.1429648

 

Seems like this whole "He's not coming back!" mantra about Tryamkin started on Vancouver sports radio.  Even on Halford and Brough which I'm surprised at because I think they are usually  not so close minded. They even issued a Tryamkin ban on their show because they think its ridiculous to even discuss it.  I'm not sure when it all started, but that fake news is leaking onto CDC as well. Maybe its a case of the longer he is gone, the more people assume he's comfortable there. When its obviously because of his contract.

 

Who knows? He may very well not want to return to NA, (or his wife doesn't), especially if he gets offered a decent new contract there.  Or he may want to start fresh at training camp instead. I just hope he at least does this.  We most likely won't be rioting this year in ecstasy anyways, even with him in the playoffs. But then again, I can also see him wanting to return and show what he's got this season in order to showcase himself. Which even if he doesn't re-sign with the Canucks, that's good for him and the Canucks if they want to trade his rights. 

 

I don't understand the defeatist attitude about him by some. We knew it would be three long years when he left and we'd need patience. I'm holding out hope until that time is done.

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Most believe that without Markstrom this team will not make the playoffs.

If that is true then the team needs to upgrade the skaters.

It could be possible that if the team sells some players at the TDL they could do so, add more youth or other trade pieces for teh end of the season.

Tanev and Stecher maybe could get a 2nd or 3rd, both could be replaced from within, Rafferty, Fantenberg and maybe Tryamkin.

Ferland is out but Guadette has taken his spot IMO.

Schaller is on the last year he might get a late pick.

Pearson would get more but seems to be forming a connection with Horvat.

The big issue is Markstrom, this is a goalie controversy in the waiting. So far the "Insiders" are saying the two sides are not close, this is not a good thing because if he hits FA the team will not be able to match offers due to a lack of cap space. The only way the team can get cap space is to trade away more of the future, as situation that never should been allowed to happen.

There is a solution if Demko is content to stay a backup for the next 5+ years or the team is willing to handcuff itself with a very big salary for a back up, the solution could have been to give both NMC's and expose a top forward or defense man a very unsatisfactory solution.

If Seattle did take Demko it will create an instant rivalry,"they stole our goalie" and this team will have that ground into the wound every game he plays here.

 

Boeser might even be a extremely valuable trade chip to a lot of teams, he would get at least a 1rst round pick plus more.

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I don't see much happening for the Canucks at all this TDL, other than if he can shed Baertschi's contract.  Expectations were to try and compete for a playoff spot, and so far this group has done it.  Please just don't meltdown and let's see what they can do if they get in.  They have enough players that if they can get hot, could maybe do some damage in a round, maybe two.   

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