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[Trade] Kings trade Tyler Toffoli to Canucks for Tim Schaller, Tyler Madden, 2020 2nd-round pick, conditional 2022 4th-round pick

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4 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Interesting numbers for Tofu.  Would it be wise to clear that 5.5 cap for Tofu by sweetening a Loui trade with a top prospect and a first?  

Ya I think it's a great idea. I'm thinking JB should offer Podz OJ and next year's 3rd to anyone who takes LE.

 

Maybe throw in Hogz as a sweetener if that package isn't enough. 

 

I think it would be very wise.

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3 minutes ago, WHL rocks said:

Ya I think it's a great idea. I'm thinking JB should offer Podz OJ and next year's 3rd to anyone who takes LE.

 

Maybe throw in Hogz as a sweetener if that package isn't enough. 

 

I think it would be very wise.

he got his scooter working again, i think he's on the booze and less on the food now lol.

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7 hours ago, iceman64 said:

Dude.. at this point we don't need to keep stocking the cupboard as much as we used to, and, now we need to get our current propects into the line up and get experience and that will happen. We're no longer the Canucks of the old days with an near empty farm.. 

 JT and Tofolli, 2 big pieces we desperately needed are in place, we're working on D next and have Rafferty, Woo, Train, Ollie, in the wings to help there so I wouldn't be worrying about more picks, we need to develop what we have a let it pan out.. 

 We're going to have a reallyyyyy good team soon.. 

The thing about the names you've mentioned is that other teams have prospects that are that good or better too.  The Canucks are in a good place but there will always be the need to stock the cupboards.  The salary cap will emphasize that.

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1 hour ago, stawns said:

I question how many top 4 d are available at the deadline and if it were JB selling a top 4 dman, I'd be expecting nothing less than a 1st and a prospect.  

Like I said, Martinez with some term only got two second rounders. Not sure the d-man market is as poppin' as people hope/think. They are being moved but not for over the moon level prices. Which is weird cause Coleman got essentially two 1st rounders. But Martinez with legitimate history was only worth two second rounders.

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10 minutes ago, N7Nucks said:

Like I said, Martinez with some term only got two second rounders. Not sure the d-man market is as poppin' as people hope/think. They are being moved but not for over the moon level prices. Which is weird cause Coleman got essentially two 1st rounders. But Martinez with legitimate history was only worth two second rounders.

I agree they need help on d, but I don't think they need a rental dman.  Toffoli was, imo, better bang for the buck and will make more of an impact than a bottom pairing dman would.

 

I understand Martinez has term, but I think they need a bigger upgrade than Martinez.

Edited by stawns

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11 minutes ago, stawns said:

I agree they need help on d, but I don't think they need a rental dman.  Toffoli was, imo, better bang for the buck and will make more of an impact than a bottom pairing dman would.

 

I understand Martinez has term, but I think they need a bigger upgrade than Martinez.

I think we just need a better top 6 so we don't have to play our top 4 22+ minutes so much.

 

Benn/Stech/Fanta only play like 15 minutes. Acquire some guys that can take up roles on PK and PP. If Rafferty came up and played alright he'd be a better option than Myers on 2nd unit PP. Then just acquire someone who plays physical and is a great PKer.

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2 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

I think we just need a better top 6 so we don't have to play our top 4 22+ minutes so much.

 

Benn/Stech/Fanta only play like 15 minutes. Acquire some guys that can take up roles on PK and PP. If Rafferty came up and played alright he'd be a better option than Myers on 2nd unit PP. Then just acquire someone who plays physical and is a great PKer.

I don't disagree, at all.  I just think toffoli was better bang for the buck than what the same package would have gotten in a dman.

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1 minute ago, stawns said:

I don't disagree, at all.  I just think toffoli was better bang for the buck than what the same package would have gotten in a dman.

I think so too.

 

We are without 3 top 9 forwards, one of which is our best RW. 

 

Top 6 RW > top 6 D

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I'm of two minds on this.

 

First, I like Tyler Toffoli alot. I like the fit. I really hope we can re-sign him.

 

Second, I'm not sure how I feel about mortgaging the future further.

 

Clearing cap space & signing Toffoli eliminates this concern, but we're taking on risk here. When you look at the here & now, Toffoli is what we need. When you look at the long term, what we gave up is what we'll need.

 

We are in a salary cap position where we'll need cost controlled young players to be a true cup contender (unless some magical moves are pulled off).

 

Not having young players coming in is why our teams fell apart quickly after 2011. Having young players coming is why teams like Chicago, LA & Boston got second & third chances at the cup. You can say we have some prospects, but they aren't guarantees. The more good ones you have the greater your odds are having one or two surprise you. 

 

 

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18 hours ago, NHL97OneTimer said:

The thing about the names you've mentioned is that other teams have prospects that are that good or better too.  The Canucks are in a good place but there will always be the need to stock the cupboards.  The salary cap will emphasize that.

True as the you said about prospects but we have enough as it is and if we give up one year of picks to solidify our line up as JB did then we're fine. Finally have a 1-2 punch with our top six, a really good bottom six and guys in the pipeline for D that we need plus Train coming back, added to Hughes and Myers already here, and Rafferty especially who will probably be added in, this coming up season or next, should put us where we need to be and still have all our picks after this this year's draft, so I don't see making the post any issue but it's how far but all we need is D shored up... We'll be fine

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On 2/17/2020 at 7:33 PM, stawns said:

How is it a disaster?  If he walks, it's pricey, but Madden had no path to the NHL in Van, imo, and a 2nd round pick is a longshot and a 2020 2nd is probably at least 5 years off.

It's a disaster because this team is in no position to be throwing away assets for a rental. We don't have a single sure thing in the pipeline regardless of how much people overvalue our prospects. I don't even like Madden to be honest, but you need as many pieces to the puzzle that you can have.

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On 2/18/2020 at 4:22 PM, samurai said:

and the organization which said it made the deal cause it wants to fight for a spot doesn't care what you think.  

Correct, the organization that cares more about 1 round of playoff revenue than winning a cup.

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Just now, FlyLow_ said:

It's a disaster because this team is in no position to be throwing away assets for a rental. We don't have a single sure thing in the pipeline regardless of how much people overvalue our prospects. I don't even like Madden to be honest, but you need as many pieces to the puzzle that you can have.

And Madden plus that second could have been used to dump Loui.  That would have saved six million off the cap, which could be used to resign Marky.  Basically we traded Madden plus a second so we could keep Loui, rent Tofu for 20 games, but ultimately lose Marky.  IMO, that’s terrible.  

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Just now, FlyLow_ said:

Correct, the organization that cares more about 1 round of playoff revenue than winning a cup.

Is the Tofu trade even going to get us into the playoffs?  The way this team is coached to be so darned passive, I don’t think so.  We should have used Madden and the second to dump Loui!  

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39 minutes ago, FlyLow_ said:

Correct, the organization that cares more about 1 round of playoff revenue than winning a cup.

I always hear that, and while I agree that they want to do that (I realize it's also great for the experience of the team and the future), if a team spends an extra 5 million to make the playoffs and earns a couple million per round doesn't that work out to be a bit of a wash?  Maybe when they report a couple more million per round they actually mean like 10-15 million per round.

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Just now, Alflives said:

Is the Tofu trade even going to get us into the playoffs?  The way this team is coached to be so darned passive, I don’t think so.  We should have used Madden and the second to dump Loui!  

They might make the playoffs but they won't win a round with this defense or the way our role players are playing. If there is truly interest in Stecher JB needs to capitalize on it now with his contract situation.

 

I can't get behind using assets like that to dump Loui. Not with Ferland unlikely to play again. There are other avenues that can be taken. Jordie benn can be parted with, teams are desperate for defense right now. If no trades can be had, you waive him on deadline day and someone that couldn't get a deal done probably picks him up. There continues to be interest in Sutter, he could and should be moved. And of course Stecher, who should be moved immediately. That's around 12 million off the cap and you've lost nothing that you haven't already been living without for most of the season. The problem is these moves have to be made and I have zero faith in Canucks management to make them.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, FlyLow_ said:

It's a disaster because this team is in no position to be throwing away assets for a rental. We don't have a single sure thing in the pipeline regardless of how much people overvalue our prospects. I don't even like Madden to be honest, but you need as many pieces to the puzzle that you can have.

If you didnt like Madden and you think all the prospects are overrated, shouldn't you be thrilled that JB was able to him into a top 6 winger, or are you just looking for something to cry about?

 

Ps, that was rhetorical, I know the answer

Edited by stawns
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46 minutes ago, Kobayashi Maru said:

I always hear that, and while I agree that they want to do that (I realize it's also great for the experience of the team and the future), if a team spends an extra 5 million to make the playoffs and earns a couple million per round doesn't that work out to be a bit of a wash?  Maybe when they report a couple more million per round they actually mean like 10-15 million per round.

I don't know what they actually make, but by how desperate they are for just 1 round of playoff revenue I'm guessing it's quite a big more than that. I'm more concerned with asset cost.

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Just now, stawns said:

If you didnt like Madden and you think all the prospects are overrated, shouldn't you be thrilled that JB was able to him into a top 6 winger, or are you just looking for something to cry about?

You miss the point. I like other prospects we have but there are no more Elias Pettersson's or Quinn Hughes' in our pipeline. There are no more sure things. The point is the more chips you have, the more will work out. Especially when given to Judd Brackett.

 

Colorado hasn't had anything to do with rentals, paying a bunch of money in free agency or trading their picks/prospects. Look at their team and look at their prospect pool. 

 

Timing is everything when it comes to GM's. If JB can trade stecher, sutter and Benn, somehow address the defense, fix the bottom 6 and re-sign TyToff, Markstrom, Tanev, Gaudette, Virtanen, and Motte I'll be quite pleased. If he can't, what the hell does a first round exit matter when we won't make the playoffs next year?

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