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[Trade] Kings trade Tyler Toffoli to Canucks for Tim Schaller, Tyler Madden, 2020 2nd-round pick, conditional 2022 4th-round pick

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18 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Yup.  Madden is a craperolla bustaroo bonsai.  Glad he’s gone.  

Anyone still arguing this trade has to give their head a shake. A 150lbs minor leaguer and a salary dump for a top flight first liner.

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25 minutes ago, Me_ said:

Anyone still arguing this trade has to give their head a shake. A 150lbs minor leaguer and a salary dump for a top flight first liner.

But like, if Toffoli doesn't sign, this trade is not worth it! The 2nd rounder could be Malkin 2.0! madden is basically Messier.

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6mill per for 6 yrs for TT if he has a solid 20 games to finish regular season and team goes 2 rounds in playoffs with Tofu playing a key top 6 role.

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1 hour ago, guntrix said:

The NHL is not what it used to be. If he can fill out at 170-180, he has a shot. You got players like Krug, Hughes, Ehlers, Marchand, Yamamoto, Kane, Gaudreau, etc proving that the league has a niche for speed and skill. 

 

No point in putting down Madden at this point. We need to wait a few years and see how he develops. 

Yeah i dont know why we have to convince each other he will be a bust. I liked him and had high hopes for him. Use all the clichés you want... Nothing is free in life. You gotta give up something to get something. 

That being said, good luck to Madden and good luck to TT. 

If we re-sign TT and he is a mainstay in our top 6, it doesnt really matter what Madden does. 

If TT doesnt re-sign but we get into the playoffs with him helping the cause, it gives invaluable experience to some of our young guys and still might be worth it.  It even helps us cut loose our first rounder this year from the Miller trade so that it's not looming over us. 

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2 hours ago, Me_ said:

Anyone still arguing this trade has to give their head a shake. A 150lbs minor leaguer and a salary dump for a top flight first liner.

Putting down a player we previously thought was a good prospect just so one can convince himself that JB pulled a rabbit out of his hat reeks of impatience. Don't understand CDC's need to immediately come to a conclusion on trades that involve high picks and decent prospects.

 

Most importantly, we need to see whether we can sign Toffoli. I don't buy the "we can still win this trade even if Toffoli ends up being a quarter-season + bit of playoffs rental" angle. 

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1 hour ago, guntrix said:

Putting down a player we previously thought was a good prospect just so one can convince himself that JB pulled a rabbit out of his hat reeks of impatience. Don't understand CDC's need to immediately come to a conclusion on trades that involve high picks and decent prospects.

 

Most importantly, we need to see whether we can sign Toffoli. I don't buy the "we can still win this trade even if Toffoli ends up being a quarter-season + bit of playoffs rental" angle. 

Sure. 

 

But turning a 150lbs minor league and a salary dump into a top flight 1st liner...

 

...IS. pulling a rabbit out of his hat.

 

And I love every minute of it.

 

Edited by Me_

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1 minute ago, Me_ said:

Sure. 

 

But turning a 150lbs minor league and a salary dump into a top flight 1st liner...

 

...IS. pulling a rabbit out of his hat.

 

And I love every minute of it.

 

And a second. Not saying indont agree with you but that second has to be mentioned.

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4 minutes ago, 73 Percent said:

And a second. Not saying indont agree with you but that second has to be mentioned.

The dude trades a feather, a rock and some hope for a machine gun and were crying about it.

 

Come on man.

 

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1 hour ago, guntrix said:

Putting down a player we previously thought was a good prospect just so one can convince himself that JB pulled a rabbit out of his hat reeks of impatience. Don't understand CDC's need to immediately come to a conclusion on trades that involve high picks and decent prospects.

 

Most importantly, we need to see whether we can sign Toffoli. I don't buy the "we can still win this trade even if Toffoli ends up being a quarter-season + bit of playoffs rental" angle. 

I may be in the minority here but playoffs mean alot to me this year. The kids worked hard, it's been a while for us, and it'd be nice to give up the miller 1st rounder this year. That being said, if he is a factor for us making the show, then it's worth it to me. If we didnt need him or we miss then yeah Derek Roy 2.0.

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Just now, Me_ said:

The dude trades a feather, a rock and some hope for a machine gun and were crying about it.

 

Come on man.

Again... not disagreeing with you.

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1 minute ago, 73 Percent said:

Again... not disagreeing with you.

All good bud.
 

Benning said he’d try to recoup the picks in time for the draft.

 

OTT with three 1sts

NJD with three 1sts

ANA with two 1sts

MIN with two 1sts

NYR with two 1sts


Something to be done there.
Boeser? Demko? Juolevi? Someone else?

 

Benning also said teams called about Bärtschi but couldn’t make it happen. He also said he’d try to trade him somewhere at or before the draft. With something for a 2nd?

 

I think Benning will get the picks back. 

 

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Benning and co have pulled Madden, DiPietro, Rathbone, Gaudette, Tryamkin and Forsling out of rounds 3+ since 2014.

 

I suspect they will find another Madden at some point. 

 

Compared to the past few decades, what a luxury it is to have later round prospects become valuable trade chips.

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On 2/20/2020 at 5:00 AM, Lazurus said:

Sorry, it is the modern world, the wifey doesn't just pack up her career and leave if it can be helped.

Better taxes in the states and lower cost of living in California.

Cali teams will not take the same amount of time to rebuild as Vancouver has, remember Vancouver has only been rebuilding for two seasons according to what Linden and Benning have said, With the amount of picks and prospects they are picking up they will get done in 3 years, the league average and before all their star players quit hockey.

 

Something about having a team filled with guys in the 30's? in 3 Toffoli - 32, Markstrom - 35, Tanev - 33, at that it will be Tanev's last chance for a big pay day so he will want a longer term contract. His shut down play will attract attention from teams with way more money or cap space than Vancouver can now afford, the same with Markstrom, for the Canucks to commit to Markstrom stops the future and could put the Canucks on the road to middle of the road team until they blow it up again.

 

As far as some grand plan of Benning's, wasn't this supposed to be a build the properly, through the draft and to have patience?

 

Suddenly he is trading even more picks of higher quality for rentals and making his own team's expiring contracts rentals as well, because none of them is obligated to re-sign here for a discount to get under the cap or should he offer even more clause contracts to 30 something players, maybe take the number up to 10 or 12 clause contracts?

 

Fans here and on the media just love to rip other teams, fine it is a Vancouver forum after all, but it is so unreal that many of the same criticisms are applicable here?

I AM NOT A FAN OF TORONTO BUT the crap they are taking for being better than the Canucks, younger and their team in better cap shape next year with a lot fewer clause contracts to hamper them and most importantly the division they play in that has two of the best team in the league, one of which rebuilt in 2 years, Boston and Tampa who cratered twice to pick up top 5 picks. Not to mention that there is Washington and the Penquins to get past as well, altogether those team have played and won 6 of the last 7 cups. Just saying they are younger and in a harder division and conference, so why does this team seem to be getting the free rides?

 

The Toffoli trade in and of itself is a good trade, maybe not the one this team needed though, a defense man, Dillion or Martinez would have made a lot more sense, the shots against have to be reduced. But even though the bottom fell out of the division for what ever reason, maybe the depth of this draft to get very high quality players deep or just following a plan, it is a division that the worst wild card team in the east might be the best team in this division.

 

And now there is media talk about trading Raffety, Woo, Tryamkin, Lockwod for a depth defense man? Something is wrong there, why move one of those guys without just promoting them first, Tanev did great when called up as a rookie in the playoffs and he didn't have a lot of playoff experience with any team he had played on before.

 

Toffoli trade, okay, it is a good deal if somehow he re-signed, but not as a rental, not for that much unless it is to polish off a contender, any more deals like this, aiming at outscoring in the playoffs rather than shutting down and playing tighter in the playoffs is not a very good plan. No shoot outs in the playoffs, no 3 on 3's, some games. the way this team currently plays, Markstrom may have to stop 80 or 90 shots if it went to triple over time or more.

 

your post is dated by the time i read it (now)

 

but 3 assumptions you set out at the start of your post are simply silly and incorrect and 1 fact is incorrect

 

california is known as one of the highest tax jurisdictions in the usa

canadian markets compare favourably if that is the criteria

and some canadian jurisdictions come out looking better

 

i count 4 cali teams

vegas is not in a rebuild cycle

san jose, la, anaheim are on downswings

only team i see pulling out quicker then the nucks are anaheim if they can solve their long term problem contracts

san jose is locked into some really bad contracts, have traded away a lot of draft value, and have little cap flexibility

la is just starting to collect young prospects and has a number of years to turn their fortunes around still

 

3 year successful rebuild is the league average??

exactly which teams have rebuilt in this time frame?  nyr ?  the only one i can point to

and they were unusual as they chose to tear down a team that was in the playoff running

a very aggressive rebuild decision that has not  been copied so far

teams that have been rebuilding for eternity (or more then 3 years) - almost every other team

edmonton, ottawa, buffalo, florida, nj, detroit and la (both would have to complete their rebuilds by next season to fit your view of the league average), etc.

gms seem to hold the view that a proper rebuild takes 5 to 10 years

 

toffoli is 27

 

 

Edited by coastal.view
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14 hours ago, WHL rocks said:

6mill per for 6 yrs for TT if he has a solid 20 games to finish regular season and team goes 2 rounds in playoffs with Tofu playing a key top 6 role.

I highly doubt we’re signing him for that especially with Petey an Quinn going after their new contract pretty quick. If he gets anything remotely close to 6, it’ll be with another team.

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11 hours ago, Me_ said:

All good bud.
 

Benning said he’d try to recoup the picks in time for the draft.

 

OTT with three 1sts

NJD with three 1sts

ANA with two 1sts

MIN with two 1sts

NYR with two 1sts


Something to be done there.
Boeser? Demko? Juolevi? Someone else?

 

Benning also said teams called about Bärtschi but couldn’t make it happen. He also said he’d try to trade him somewhere at or before the draft. With something for a 2nd?

 

I think Benning will get the picks back. 

 

If Marky re signs I think Demko goes for a 15th to 31st  1st round pick. 

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5 minutes ago, WHL rocks said:

If Marky re signs I think Demko goes for a 15th to 31st  1st round pick. 

Unfortunately, there’s no way that happens. While teams would probably give him a look, they also look at sample size in the NHL and certainly AHL numbers (at this point in their development).


Fact of the matter is, his numbers aren’t off the charts amazing. I’m not saying he doesn’t have immense talent or potential, just that so far he hasn’t proven a lot at the pro level to warrant a team giving that up for him.

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24 minutes ago, Monty said:

Unfortunately, there’s no way that happens. While teams would probably give him a look, they also look at sample size in the NHL and certainly AHL numbers (at this point in their development).


Fact of the matter is, his numbers aren’t off the charts amazing. I’m not saying he doesn’t have immense talent or potential, just that so far he hasn’t proven a lot at the pro level to warrant a team giving that up for him.

That's why he won't return a 1 to 15 first rounder.

 

He's a sure fire starter in the league in a year. Someone will pay a 1st for a young,  tall starter.

 

I wouldn't be surprised. He won't get a top 10 pick like CS did but a bottom 10 I can see happening. It'll be an interesting summer

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36 minutes ago, Monty said:

Unfortunately, there’s no way that happens. While teams would probably give him a look, they also look at sample size in the NHL and certainly AHL numbers (at this point in their development).


Fact of the matter is, his numbers aren’t off the charts amazing. I’m not saying he doesn’t have immense talent or potential, just that so far he hasn’t proven a lot at the pro level to warrant a team giving that up for him.

actually they are if you consider the talent of the team in front of him, which wasn't great. 

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27 minutes ago, WHL rocks said:

did but a bottom 10 I can see happening

That unlikely, too. Only for the following reason alone:

 

A bottom 10 pick in the first round will be from who? It’ll be from a top team that made the playoffs and is a consistent playoff team. They are also a team that already has a starting goaltender long term, and one that isn’t a year or two away from retirement. If you’re a top 10 team in the NHL with your future in net all but certain, why would you trade your late first round pick for a goaltender you’re going to have to expose in the expansion draft and most definitely lose to Seattle as well?

 

For that reason alone, a top team won’t do that, either. Now, a top 10 pick in the 2nd round? Absolutely a team will give that up, because it’s from a team that desperately needs to fix their goaltender situation (see: Detroit).

 

But, never say never.

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25 minutes ago, Monty said:

That unlikely, too. Only for the following reason alone:

 

A bottom 10 pick in the first round will from who? It’ll be from a top team that made the playoffs and is a consistent playoff team. They are also a team that already has a starting goaltender long term, and one that isn’t a year or two away from retirement. If you’re a top 10 team in the NHL with your future in net all but certain, why would you trade your late first round pick for a goaltender you’re going to have to expose in the expansion draft and most definitely lose to Seattle as well?

 

For that reason alone, a top team won’t do that, either. Now, a top 10 pick in the 2nd round? Absolutely a team will give that up, because it’s from a team that desperately needs to fix their goaltender situation (see: Detroit).

 

But, never say never.

We'll see what happens. Several bottom feeders like MIN OTT NJD have upto 3 firsts

 

OTT definitely needs a top tier young goalie or prospect. There's talk they  might take the Russian kid with one of their top 2 picks ( own or SJS). He'll go top 4th to 8th overall.

 

OR they could give us the late NYI first from Pageau trade for Demko... 

 

OR another team that needs a goalie could trade down from top 15 to bottom 10. Pick up additional assets and give us that bottom 10 for Demko.

 

So many variables. 

 

Should be an interesting and busy summe

 

 

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