[Trade] Kings trade Tyler Toffoli to Canucks for Tim Schaller, Tyler Madden, 2020 2nd-round pick, conditional 2022 4th-round pick

[spook007]

12 hours ago, sassbs said:

These comments it’s like miller trade deja vu all over again 

spot on.... lets hope the outcome is the same as well +1

[StanleyCupOneDay]

20 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Have to admit, like some of JBs deals in the past to wake up and see this one the initial reaction is between WTF?!!?!  and throwing the remote (that was drafting OJ over MT).   If he doesn't re-sign and we don't make the playoffs then JB might get the axe before he can fire the coach at the end of the season and make changes.    That said he's surprised me enough times that I'm willing to wait and see.  To me Madden is playing like a first round pick - and just as or more importantly was one of our more ready prospects that could come in and help replace an expensive vet.  How do you quantify all of that into what could possibly be a rental?  Schaller was off the books anyways.

 

Even if all this move does is help get us into the playoffs-which it clearly is - I'm not sure I can stomach it (yet).  My initial reactions with the Miller trade were similar but turned around on that because he was on a good contract for his value.   What will Toffoli cost as a UFA?  More then 4.6 .... is a 20/20 top six guy worth 5plus?   This year his stats are good - but he's also a top line player so they should be.   Going to take some time to warm up to this.   Madden to me was worth a mid-late first rounder right now given he's playing like one - and one who's ahead at least a year in development then a brand new pick.   The Kings are definitely the winners of this trade.  

 

Toffoli is a good hockey player no doubt - if he can be even better here and we can re-sign him at less then Miller type money then OK.  We do need R wingers and Leivo probably won't be a good (although now we will never know).   But he was cheap.   Ugh.  I suppose from a business point of view Aqua wants playoff revenue, and this won't change the cap much - but will definitely help him make 3-5 million or so a game come post season....

And just like with the Miller trade you along with most of CDC will be surprised again when Toffoli ends up “over-achieving” what his points/play level was like prior and does really well here. People will be more shocked after Toffoli re-signs with us. I’ve seen enough Jim Benning trades to know even if I feel iffy on it at the time he knows what he’s doing more then me and things will likely either a) workout great for us or b) not cost us anything after a wrong move. Wait and see what he does here, you’ll be happy.

[Me_]

2 hours ago, Phat Fingers said:

We have depth and unless Brock is shut down for the season, then we will be getting him back at some point.  

 

Moving Stecher has some merit, but Tryamkin is free and will add depth.  Dillon is a rumored target.  I like it, with Tanev all but gone in FA, Dillon and Tryamkin alot of heft to our Right side. 

 

As long as we don't ship out any other prospects and picks.  A Stecher deal for Dillon.  Maybe add a Bailey, Goldy or Baer...  whatever substitutes for a Ballard, Raymond and 3rd.  

I gave you a  because I channeled into the souls of the Canucks’ future opposition and that’s the face they make going through Edler, Myers, Dillon, Tryamkin, Fantenberg and Benn only to be scored on by Hughes.

 

Edited February 18, 2020 by Me_

[Maniwaki Canuck]

I like this trade, but of course there's risk like always.  Toffoli absolutely solidifies our top 6 and sends the message that we're all in on the playoffs this year.  That is a vote of confidence in the season we've been having and will be good for the team's morale.  If we can sign him long-term, better still.  It's not out of the question but will probably mean moving Erikson, something already in the cards if we're re-signing Markstrom.  So get ready to see another good asset go out the door to make that happen.  Personally, I'm good with that.

Madden is a valuable prospect with no clear path onto the roster any time soon.  Maybe it would have been better to spend these assets on a defenseman but those deals are incredibly hard to make.  I'm sure Benning looked into it.  The fact is we have a good prospect pipeline and a good young team so there isn't going to be room for everyone in the years ahead.  It makes sense to do moves like this one under those circumstances. 

If this ends up anything at all like the Miller deal, we'll get over the cost quickly enough.  If not, I still like the sense of urgency to stack our lineup while Petterson and Hughes are still on entry-level deals. 

[IBatch]

1 minute ago, StanleyCupOneDay said:

And just like with the Miller trade you along with most of CDC will be surprised again when Toffoli ends up “over-achieving” what his points/play level was like prior and does really well here. People will be more shocked after Toffoli re-signs with us. I’ve seen enough Jim Benning trades to know even if I feel iffy on it at the time he knows what he’s doing more then me and things will likely either a) workout great for us or b) not cost us anything after a wrong move. Wait and see what he does here, you’ll be happy.

Maybe ... it took an hour for me to come around on the Miller trade.   I won't come around one unless we make the playoffs and he's contributed to that.   Cranky in the mornings when I see headlines that make no sense for us given our upcoming cap situation.   How are we going to fit Toffoli, Markstrom, JV, Stetcher and others in?  Not to mention the following year when QH and EP are up. 

 

For me this was an act of desperation to make the playoffs now no matter the cost.   Madden is one of a small group of prospects that have a good chance of bumping out expensive vets when we need to.  The list just got smaller.  I was pumping the Miller deal in under an hour after the initial shock wore off (at the time I really believed we needed one more down year before building the rest of the ship).   Yes we need R wingers.   And he's the best rental for the job so kudos to that .  And he has Pearson to hopefully help re-sign him.  And it if means LE can finally be sent the way of Ladd and others this year even better.   I do get it's going to help us for 23 plus games.   Madden might of helped us 5-7 years though - and the second rounder means we are going to have a one year prospect gap.  The price was definitely steep.

[EP Phone Home]

Drew Doughty: “You get to go to a team like that” 

Toffoli: Better than a team like us and a teammate like you” 

 

 

[Nicklas Bo Hunter]

I wouldn't be surprisd if JB traded a Dman for a 2nd and give Rafferty a call up and sign Tryamkin. Stecher or Tanev. JB could have been trying to get another 2nd before he did this deal but became desperate when the Boeser information came in and literally every team we needed to lose has been winning

Edited February 18, 2020 by Nicklas Bo Hunter

[seeteesee]

Absolutely no guarantee we would have been able to re-sign Madden anyways. (College player loophole)

 

Schaller has been a plug.

 

And a 2nd round pick is generally the bare minimum for a rental player. 

 

All in all. We now have a steady top 6 winger, who has a lot of playoff experience. And chemistry with Pearson. JB did just fine in this trade. Whether we resign Toffoli or not.

 

People getting mad at JB for this trade are the same people getting mad when we miss playoffs. Give JB a break lol

 

 

[IBatch]

5 minutes ago, Maniwaki Canuck said:

I like this trade, but of course there's risk like always.  Toffoli absolutely solidifies our top 6 and sends the message that we're all in on the playoffs this year.  That is a vote of confidence in the season we've been having and will be good for the team's morale.  If we can sign him long-term, better still.  It's not out of the question but will probably mean moving Erikson, something already in the cards if we're re-signing Markstrom.  So get ready to see another good asset go out the door to make that happen.  Personally, I'm good with that.

Madden is a valuable prospect with no clear path onto the roster any time soon.  Maybe it would have been better to spend these assets on a defenseman but those deals are incredibly hard to make.  I'm sure Benning looked into it.  The fact is we have a good prospect pipeline and a good young team so there isn't going to be room for everyone in the years ahead.  It makes sense to do moves like this one under those circumstances. 

If this ends up anything at all like the Miller deal, we'll get over the cost quickly enough.  If not, I still like the sense of urgency to stack our lineup while Petterson and Hughes are still on entry-level deals. 

The path is pretty clear when your paying 7.5 million for one oft injured defensive centre that should be on a he fourth line, and an aging vet to centre the fourth line both with deals that expire within two years.  Centres can play the wing too which is added value.   The "path" may have been a year or maybe two out, but now we have nobody to fill those roles so will have to find overpaid guys to do it again- at a time when ELCs will be at a premium with this core.   One of JBs former called "untouchables" just went out the door to replace Ferland.   To me this was about money now more then anything - as playoffs at all costs.  Sure hope he's done because don't think I could take another rental for say Podz or Hogs...

[riffraff]

Happy I never have to watch Schaller play hockey again on purpose. 

[Phat Fingers]

3 hours ago, TheRealistOptimist said:

Even though Toffoli and Pearson have chemistry together from their time with the Kings, I kind of would like to see Toffoli on the EP-Miller line and Boeser paired back up with Horvat. People have been concerned about Boeser even though he's still putting up points (which I think is unwarranted). The fact is it's really hard to have 3 30 goal scorers on one line. With the addition of Miller and how much he handles the puck and how Petey is such a big focal point, there are 2 guys taking lots of goal opportunities away from Boeser (even if they are good playmakers as well). However, if we put Boeser back with Horvat, then Boeser becomes the focal point on that line along with Horvat and Pearson can just be the 3rd wheel who can hopefully add 15-20 goals/year.

 

Now as for the trade - Madden is 2-3 years probably closer to 3 years away from playing in the NHL for a full season. We are already set at our top 2 Center spots with Petey and Horvat and hopefully set for a while at our 3rd C spot with Gaudette. This leaves very little room for Madden to come in and be an offensive dynamo that most people on here seem to think he was guaranteed to be, therefore making him expendable. I liked him as a prospect but won't miss him now that he's gone. 

 

As for a playoff push, we can still potentially add Leivo and Ferland (not likely at this point) after the deadline and be over the cap heading into the playoffs. These would be like depth moves made at the deadline, except we wouldn't actually be giving anything up to acquire them.

 

Going forward into the offseason - Sutter's contract becomes eminently movable with him now being in the last year of his deal. The same goes for Baertschi. Depending on how Ferland is feeling, that may be $3.5 million that will be LTIR eligible at the start of next season. Plus we could retain salary if need be. Leivo will probably walk in free agency. Eriksson may finally be tradeable after his signing bonus gets paid out. Pearson will also be in the final year of his deal and will be moveable. 

 

Basically I think the Canucks cap problems are over exaggerated by a fan base and media who are still split and which half of them hates our GM. 

 

 

All good points, and the nucks just shut Ferland down for the season...  he may never play again.  

 

Eriksson is going to retire... you don't want to be the guy that derails a franchise on the rise.  

 

Added to that, he has most of his cash.  I don't see a home for him anywhere in the NHL at that cap hit without the nucks losing one of our top 5 prospects.  He will go thru waivers and then play in the AHL for the next 2 years.  Ala Gagner and Baer.  

 

Lots of guys can be dealt in the off season on the last year of their deals.  Sutter, Beagle, Benn...  Rousell would be an easy player to deal, if Mikey is ready to be a backup, Demko could be moved, but not likely.   

 

We have a boon of young promising D men coming into the system.  So depth isn't an issue on defence in the short term.  So I don't see Tanev back.  Stecher could stay and Tryamkin could take a top 4 spot.  If JB can upgrade on Stecher, then so be it.  

 

If we go on a decent playoff run, anyone of these guys could become an in demand guy if they have a good playoffs.  Looking at the trio if Beagle, Sutter and Eriksson, all.be co winners of the Conn Smythe!!!  Then trade them all!  

[IBatch]

2 minutes ago, seeteesee said:

Absolutely no guarantee we would have been able to re-sign Madden anyways. (College player loophole)

 

Schaller has been a plug.

 

And a 2nd round pick is generally the bare minimum for a rental player. 

 

All in all. We now have a steady top 6 winger, who has a lot of playoff experience. And chemistry with Pearson. JB did just fine in this trade. Whether we resign Toffoli or not.

 

People getting mad at JB for this trade are the same people getting mad when we miss playoffs. Give JB a break lol

 

 

True.  I'm upset - because I was under the impression we weren't going to mortgage the future for now, JBs said that enough lately for this to come out of left field a bit - BUT he's also said he's like to add another top six forward so get the deal too.   I think the deal was fair - Toffoli as a rental is worth taking Schaller a 2, a prospect that's like a decent first round pick already developing, and maybe a 4th.    Other teams would have paid that too.  He also plugged a team weakness- with BB and Leivo out are already thin R side was pretty bad.   And with the team in a rut right now it really comes down to how good Toffoli is for us down the stretch.   To me it's a fair deal if we make it he playoffs.   Maybe a good deal if he re-signs (assuming we can dump LE otherwise not a chance) at a decent price (say 5 x 4). 

[erkayloomeh]

12 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Benning isn’t done. 

Sutter will be traded 

[Maniwaki Canuck]

2 minutes ago, IBatch said:

The path is pretty clear when your paying 7.5 million for one oft injured defensive centre that should be on a he fourth line, and an aging vet to centre the fourth line both with deals that expire within two years.  Centres can play the wing too which is added value.   The "path" may have been a year or maybe two out, but now we have nobody to fill those roles so will have to find overpaid guys to do it again- at a time when ELCs will be at a premium with this core.   One of JBs former called "untouchables" just went out the door to replace Ferland.   To me this was about money now more then anything - as playoffs at all costs.  Sure hope he's done because don't think I could take another rental for say Podz or Hogs...

So you're proposing something like Petterson, Bo, Gaudette and Madden as our centres in a couple of years?  I can't see a bottom 6 with Gaudette and Madden as the Cs.  It looks pretty unbalanced from a size and style of play point of view.  There's a reason why cheap, big, strong, defensively-oriented 4Cs are a thing.  It's true that we don't have one in the system now, but they don't all cost what we paid Beagle.  Agreed, though, that it makes no sense to expend his and Sutter's salaries for the roles they play and that Podz and Hogs should be keepers. 

[hammertime]

I'm not overly concerned by this Maddens cieling is 3c which is a difficult position to play when you're 150lbs. 

 

This trade was a big vote of confidence from JB to his group. 

[Ghostsof1915]

7 hours ago, bad alice french said:

I’m looking at it like an expensive test drive. If he fits and helps us get in the post season then we have the luxury of luring him in. If it doesn’t work out then we’ll have to look at it as a potential miscue but a chance worth taking. At that point it might be nice not to have an extra contract to work into next years cap. 

So we're hoping to make the monthly payments?

[KoreanHockeyFan]

Why do so many think it will take the entire bank to re-sign Toffoli? Horvat signed at $5.5 per. 

[MJDDawg]

I'm torn about this deal right now.

 

We have core players that need to be signed in the next year or two and we're already in a cap crunch. And what concerns me is that JB doesn't have a history of getting good value when trading roster players to free up cap space and/or restocking draft picks and prospects. 

 

Regardless of whether we can re-sign Tofolli or not, we'll have to pay the piper at some point. I just worry that we're once again going down the road of trading picks and prospects for success now. Really well managed teams like the Lightening are successful consistently because they're restocking their picks and prospects while the team is good.

 

Sure this will help the team now. But it will cost us in cap flexibility later and ability to re-sign or get value for players later. 

[IBatch]

5 hours ago, spook007 said:

What a story to wake up to....

 

Benning taking the bull by the horns... Canucks being bullied and struggling to play against PO style hockey forced his hand...

Was wanting to stand pat, as trading for quality was always going to cost at this time of the year.

But glad to see us bring TT in... a proper top 6/9 player.

 

Sends a good signal to the youngsters. 

 

Price is not too high... and no more Schaller...thank you JB.

 

Lets hope we don't get screwed, and Toffoli mores back to the Californian sun in the summer 

Still remember, when Roy baby for a second was supposed to be the missing link to the cup... only to see him walk away after a total lack lustre few months here....

 

Well done Jim Benning....again

 

 

Think if Toffoli helps us make the playoffs management will be fine with the deal - it's a business after all and there is nothing like success in this one to boost the stock.  Plus the added revenue of two gauranteed home games puts money in owners pockets fast.   A couple series and party time for sure.

 

Now that I've had an hour to think about it I definitely understand the deal from that point of view but it definitely comes at a modest risk of giving up on a player that could have helped the team long term and displaced an expensive vet that now we don't have any replacements for.   Not sure how to do the math on that one.   On the flip side not sure how to do the math on if this deal just saved the season and playoff experience added to our young core...

 

One things for sure JB had big cajones - he just might have wagered his future on this one deal.   Think it has a high change of working so good for him.   Given BB, Leivo and Ferland are out this makes sense.  If they weren't doubt it would have ever happened so not sure if he's anything more then a rental (yet). 

[stawns]

30 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Maybe ... it took an hour for me to come around on the Miller trade.   I won't come around one unless we make the playoffs and he's contributed to that.   Cranky in the mornings when I see headlines that make no sense for us given our upcoming cap situation.   How are we going to fit Toffoli, Markstrom, JV, Stetcher and others in?  Not to mention the following year when QH and EP are up. 

 

For me this was an act of desperation to make the playoffs now no matter the cost.   Madden is one of a small group of prospects that have a good chance of bumping out expensive vets when we need to.  The list just got smaller.  I was pumping the Miller deal in under an hour after the initial shock wore off (at the time I really believed we needed one more down year before building the rest of the ship).   Yes we need R wingers.   And he's the best rental for the job so kudos to that .  And he has Pearson to hopefully help re-sign him.  And it if means LE can finally be sent the way of Ladd and others this year even better.   I do get it's going to help us for 23 plus games.   Madden might of helped us 5-7 years though - and the second rounder means we are going to have a one year prospect gap.  The price was definitely steep.

Shouldn't they be desperate to make the playoffs?  It's kind of the point of the 82 games that come before that.

 

And there is close to zero chance that JB is in any kind of danger of losing his job.  At this point he's much closer to getting a statue than a pink slip.