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Tyler Toffoli: Analyzing His Style Of Play (and Why Teams Will Covet Him On July 1st)

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7 hours ago, BigTramFan said:

Agreed. The salaries are too low for everyone except Marky and Toffoli.

 

Also OP - you have missed something because when I punch your resignings into Capfriendly for next season, I get a cap hit total of $81m. Maybe you have missed the Luongo recapture penalty or something? (please note: I assumed Stecher is not resigned, have used Rafferty as 7D since he is only signed for $700k, and have assumed Ferland is on LTIR so salary is not included in the $81m).

 

If the cap goes up to $83m (and that is a big IF from what I have read) this actually leaves only $2m of space in 2020/21 for performance bonus overages from 2019/20. These may be more like $4.7m.

 

To me this means that it will not be enough to just move Baer and Roussel. In order to resign our most important UFA/RFAs and cover up to $4.7m in bonuses overages next season, we will need to move Baer, Eriksson, Sutter.

 

I sure hope JB has a plan!

 

 

Pretty sure Jimbo has something in mind, along with the team, he's progressed and learned, and as one poster put it, nothing huge is going happen until summer and there has been some news on the cap going up or down. We can talk this to death but at the end of the day it's all about the cap and until that's known, highly unlikely there will be a lot done.

 

 

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19 minutes ago, GoodCanadianKideh said:

I’m not sure why people are saying we should trade Bock Boeser.  He is young and is continuing to show improvement/growth in his game.  I like Toffoli and what he brings, but Brock is projecting as a better player.

 

Toffoli has broken 50 points once in his NHL career.  Brock has started his career at mid fifty points and has a higher ceiling as he learns the game.  Toffoli brings a great defensive element and a heavy game which I think will play well on the second line with Bo and Pearson.  Let Brock play his game with Miller and Pettersson and we have two top lines in the NHL for years to come!

 

Toffoli points in his 7 NHL seasons:

29

49

58

34

47

34

38 current

 

Boeser in his first 3 NHL seasons:

55

56

45 current

 

Brock as a better player? with Tofolli having one of the best 2 way games in the league, how do you figure that? It's not all about points, it's more about points that win games.. JT Miller is a prime example, right now he's lighting it up but usually he's clutch when the chips are down and count the most. That's what this team needs more than prima donna's who can't play defense.. not say Brock is one of those but JB has been on the hunt for support for Petey, Bo, and Boes... Look who he picked up.. JT or TT won't back down from giving a devastating hit or dropping the gloves if necessary and we need that, JB already knows how it goes with soft highly skilled teams and so do we, they don't win the cup...  That route is not ours thankfully...

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On 2/23/2020 at 10:31 AM, stawns said:

Well, they're not going to have both Brock and TT

Curious why you think that Stawns.

 

They would have to move out some contracts to be sure. Sutter, Benn and Roussel come to mind as well as Loui and Baer either in Utica, traded or bought out.

 

Big Mac replaces Loui on the 4th line, Leivo gets resigned and either Brisbois replaces Benn or Rafferty replaces Stetcher.

 

Projected lines IMO for next year: Miller, Pettersson, Toffoli.......Pearson, Horvat, Boeser.... Leivo, Gaudette, Virtanen......Motte, Beagle, McEwen.

defence lines: Edler, Myers.....Hughes, Tanev......Brisbois, Stetcher. With the CAP likely going up a few million this could be workable. Again; this is all purely conjecture on my part but would love to see it happen

 

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15 hours ago, DarkIndianRises said:

It’s not just Toffoli’s point totals.   The guy plays a smart two way game, is reasonably physical, and can play center if need be.   In many ways, he’s like another JT Miller.

 

I love Boeser, but the Canucks would be able to get a 1st AND a good prospect in return for him.    

there ya go with a 1st round for Boeser, Benning wanted another top 6 winger and he finally gets one in Toffoli, which we don't even know if he wants to stay. having Boeser and Toffoli just gives our team a greater chance, losing Bess will hurt our team. he is just 22 years old and Toffoli has 5 years on him. . give Bess a chance !!!!

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36 minutes ago, iceman64 said:

Brock as a better player? with Tofolli having one of the best 2 way games in the league, how do you figure that? It's not all about points, it's more about points that win games.. JT Miller is a prime example, right now he's lighting it up but usually he's clutch when the chips are down and count the most. That's what this team needs more than prima donna's who can't play defense.. not say Brock is one of those but JB has been on the hunt for support for Petey, Bo, and Boes... Look who he picked up.. JT or TT won't back down from giving a devastating hit or dropping the gloves if necessary and we need that, JB already knows how it goes with soft highly skilled teams and so do we, they don't win the cup...  That route is not ours thankfully...

 

Go have a read about how JT Miller frutrated the hell out of his coaches at 22 years old.  Theres plenty of material out there documenting his inconsistency and how he would go MIA for several games in a row.  You think JT miller has always looked like this?

 

The point is when comparing Toffoli to Brock is that you are comparing a player that has 6 more years in the league to develop.  22 years old vs 28 years old.   What is toffoli gonna look like when he is 31,32,33?  I bet he might not be as effective and I bet you he wont get you the return Brock would in 5 years....


Thats why you keep the younger player with higher upside..

 

EDIT: this talk about keeping one over the other is nonsense iMHO.  Whats wrong with having two legit top 6 RW forwards?  If they need cap room they need to trim the fat ..ie get rid of the role players and the guys on big contracts who are gonna have less of a role to play during the next couple years.

Edited by Darius
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1 minute ago, Darius said:

 

Go have a read about how JT Miller frutrated the hell out of his coaches at 22 years old.  Theres plenty of material out there documenting his inconsistency and how he would go MIA for several games in a row.  You think JT miller has always looked like this?

 

The point is when comparing Toffoli to Brock is that you are comparing a player that has 6 more years in the league to develop.  22 years old vs 28 years old.   What is toffoli gonna look like when he is 31,32,33?  I bet he might not be as effective and I bet you he wont get you the return Brock would in 5 years....


Thats why you keep the younger player with higher upside..

Why not keep both? Finally have a complete top six and everyone is Gung Ho to trade one of them. Did not JB say he would like to add a top six?? He has gone and done that and now you want to trade one of them out.... for what purpose?. If the Canucks can find a way to fit them in under the Cap, the team would be in an even better spot to compete next year.

 

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2 minutes ago, Kootenay Gold said:

Why not keep both? Finally have a complete top six and everyone is Gung Ho to trade one of them. Did not JB say he would like to add a top six?? He has gone and done that and now you want to trade one of them out.... for what purpose?. If the Canucks can find a way to fit them in under the Cap, the team would be in an even better spot to compete next year.

 

i have no problem with keeping both...its other posters that think we have to get rid of one of them.  Imagine the one two punch of Toffoli and Brock on RW.....the goal scoring might make up for some of the deficiencies they have on D

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20 minutes ago, bree2 said:

there ya go with a 1st round for Boeser, Benning wanted another top 6 winger and he finally gets one in Toffoli, which we don't even know if he wants to stay. having Boeser and Toffoli just gives our team a greater chance, losing Bess will hurt our team. he is just 22 years old and Toffoli has 5 years on him. . give Bess a chance !!!!

You’re missing my point.   I love Boeser, but I can’t see how the Canucks would be able to keep Toffoli, Boeser, and Virtanen, while still having enough money to re-sign Pettersson and Hughes.   You’ll have to show me your math.   Virtanen might get you a low first if you move him to create cap space.   

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7 minutes ago, DarkIndianRises said:

You’re missing my point.   I love Boeser, but I can’t see how the Canucks would be able to keep Toffoli, Boeser, and Virtanen, while still having enough money to re-sign Pettersson and Hughes.   You’ll have to show me your math.   Virtanen might get you a low first if you move him to create cap space.   

 thats for Benning and the group to figure out, which I believe they already have.

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19 minutes ago, Darius said:

 

Go have a read about how JT Miller frutrated the hell out of his coaches at 22 years old.  Theres plenty of material out there documenting his inconsistency and how he would go MIA for several games in a row.  You think JT miller has always looked like this?

 

The point is when comparing Toffoli to Brock is that you are comparing a player that has 6 more years in the league to develop.  22 years old vs 28 years old.   What is toffoli gonna look like when he is 31,32,33?  I bet he might not be as effective and I bet you he wont get you the return Brock would in 5 years....


Thats why you keep the younger player with higher upside..

 

EDIT: this talk about keeping one over the other is nonsense iMHO.  Whats wrong with having two legit top 6 RW forwards?  If they need cap room they need to trim the fat ..ie get rid of the role players and the guys on big contracts who are gonna have less of a role to play during the next couple years.

Well we'd rock the show and make the playoffs every year if we can keep both of them and I hope we will but you pointed out age difference but some players just can't play D as well as others, why? Well just some players can and some can't or not as good and even in 5+ years, sorry but I can't see Brock being as complete as JT or TT, BUT do I hope Bes does? Sure, is that guaranteed? Certainly not...

 Anyway, I have confidence Jimbo will get it done.. he's mostly through his learning curve far enough along to pull it off. 

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On 2/23/2020 at 9:09 AM, Ghostsof1915 said:

If you are making a trade. Are GM's allowed to talk to the agent and ask long term, if things go well with the team would he seriously consider a new contract with the new team?

Burrows is an example of this happening. If they think it's too high of a price for a rental, but not too high if the player will re-sign, they can ask for permission to talk directly to the player and his agent about signing an extension before completing the deal. Typically there is a tentative deal in place before this occurs.

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We trading Boeser now? Really? When Boeser gets healthy, it will be to best top six wing I have seen on the Canucks for a long time. Can't trade that.

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On 2/23/2020 at 4:14 PM, grandmaster said:

People need to stop saying Boeser will be traded.

 

JB and company will likely figure things out and find a way to sign TT at a reasonable deal and keep Boeser. 

So much this.  People in here just want to give up on this guy.  It’s embarrassing.  He is one of the most obviously high character people in the room with high end skill to go with it.  Just signed a new contract.  The chance of him being traded, imo, are nil.

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8 hours ago, iceman64 said:

Well we'd rock the show and make the playoffs every year if we can keep both of them and I hope we will but you pointed out age difference but some players just can't play D as well as others, why? Well just some players can and some can't or not as good and even in 5+ years, sorry but I can't see Brock being as complete as JT or TT, BUT do I hope Bes does? Sure, is that guaranteed? Certainly not...

 Anyway, I have confidence Jimbo will get it done.. he's mostly through his learning curve far enough along to pull it off. 

not giving Brock a chance and just comparing to two older players is not a fair assessment, same as you can't compare Jake to them either

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13 hours ago, Wanless said:

If you're responding to me. Cap friendly automatically includes the Spooner buyout cost Luongo recapture and 3 million on bonus overages

 

Assuming the cap goes up 1.5 million is not much considering it went from 78-81.5 over last summer.

 

Ferland is the only question mark and if he came back there could be an issue.

 

As for tanev being too low look at his injury history, he should not get more than that because you can't tie that much I to an injury prone player. 

 

Virtanen, love the kid, but he needs to be consistent to get up into the 3.5-4 range

 

Gaudette is in the same boat as Virtanen

 

Tryamkin can pound sand if he wants more than 3 pairing money before proving anything

 

Stetcher walks

 

Performance bonus overages are able to carry over to the following year. This year's are paid out next year. Next year's will be paid out the following year

Hi, yes I was referring to your post, cheers

 

I'm not really arguing whether the players are worth the salaries you suggested, and I am sure JB will work hard not to overpay because he is tight on cap.

 

But I can't figure out where my total cap hit is different to yours. I have pasted below from cap friendly the 2020-21 season with a cap limit of $83m, if you're interested. Using the salaries you suggest that we resign our guys to, cap friendly indicates cap hit total of $81m. Unless you can show me where I mucked up??

 

This $81m certainly does not include performance bonuses. And what is clear is that we will be paying ALL of the performance bonuses from this season, next season. Nobody knows what the 2019-20 bonuses will come to yet, but they could be as high as $4.7m.

 

I think you are assuming this season's bonuses might be about $3m, which is not a bad guess, however even $3m added to the $81m of cap hit, this brings us to $84m. And we cannot carry the 2019-20 performance bonuses over to 2021-22, they must be paid next season.

 

In addition, this probably means that we are going to be tight to the cap limit next season (very likely over the cap limit and utilising LTIR for Ferland). And if this happens we will have to pay for the 2020-21 performance bonuses in 2021-22 (which is the season that Pettersson and Hughes will require resigning).

 

It's potentially a bit of cluster....

 

JB has his work cut out for himself. At least we are looking like a competitive team for the first time in a long time. And fitting a team of good players into your cap limit is a good problem to have!

 

Forwards.JPG

D and G.JPG

The rest.JPG

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Interesting @BigTramFan

 

I was using the armchair gm, but I've never added everything up. Your numbers are correct, those in the armchair section it says in the totals the amount of bonuses to be paid. I always assumed they were added in. They're not.

 

So, Benning would need to clear 2 million more to account for bonuses

 

 

Could be Eriksson with salary retained and a pick thrown in to one of the many teams that traded away all their top paid players

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between moving baertschi at the draft (which benning might have a lead on), moving one of roussel or sutter (preferably sutter), eriksson retiring or terminating contract after his bonus is paid out, and micheal fer-island living on ltir, I have faith benning will be able to make it work, bringing back marky, toffoli, and tanev. stech too if he's willing to take a haircut. 

Edited by tas

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23 hours ago, bree2 said:

not giving Brock a chance and just comparing to two older players is not a fair assessment, same as you can't compare Jake to them either

Well maybe I mis-communicated what I was saying but don't forget some scorers can't play defense for whatever reason but this team can't afford to have that but hopefully Brock's game completes like Bo's has and then we're golden but I hope Jimbo pulls off both TT and Brock both on the team for awhile to come.. 

 As for Jake, been a jake fan since day one, I knew it would take time and it's paying off and I still don't believe he's anywhere near his ceiling yet with the coaching and player coaching he's getting, I believe he will get there... 

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On 2/23/2020 at 11:55 AM, Shirotashi said:

Other teams can covet all they want, I get the feeling hes going to be in Van for more than a minute.

Instant fan favourite 

(amongst many others of course)

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On 2/23/2020 at 8:55 AM, Shirotashi said:

Other teams can covet all they want, I get the feeling hes going to be in Van for more than a minute.

Well looks like he's enjoying himself so far! Think of where we'd be in the standings had we had him start the season here... At least a few wins up when we needed one more piece with skill, vision, and not afraid to throw a punch if he gets mad enough... 

 JB your a f'n genius with JT and TT... 

 Front corps look great and hopefully as our D gets better it will all gel at once... 

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