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[PGT] Vancouver Canucks at Montreal Canadiens | Feb. 25, 2020

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2 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

Yeah i dont get the Jake haters. He was one of the main catalysts for the comeback. Ppl still talk about his consistency but he's had a pretty good year and has taken a tremendous foot forward this year. 

If you're still anti Jake this year, either he's done something to you or your friends in Abbotsford or your need to be right clouds your judgement. 

Heading into the playoffs, im glad we have him. This will be more evident when the whistles disappear and the clutching , grabbing and physical play amps up. 

not a jake hater at all.   just having a debate with Stawns over who is a better player Jake or BB....if you could keep one...

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2 minutes ago, Darius said:

sorry, but i think Brock is at a different level than Jake.  Brock has contributed 161 points in 196gp for this team.  A lot of those points (cough calder runner up) were generated on his own.  He can see the ice better than Jake does now - there is a reason hes been stapled in the top 6 for so long and Jake hasnt.- even in Brocks absence.

 

 

 

I don't think his offensive elite-ness is the question

But he can not enter a zone by himself and create space

Pettersson can, Miller can, Toffoli can, Virtanen can

 

Then there is the other side of the game....Brock is not there at all

 

But, still if I was taking one in the draft......I would take Brock way ahead of Jake

So would Stawns

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30 minutes ago, stawns said:

but is moving Boeser for a big return and keeping Toffoli better than keeping boeser and losing TT?

oh hey maybe we should keep both of them and trade Gaudette and Jake, lol, point being it would be just plain stupid for Benning to trade Boeser. it is too early to do that

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Just now, janisahockeynut said:

I don't think his offensive elite-ness is the question

But he can not enter a zone by himself and create space

Pettersson can, Miller can, Toffoli can, Virtanen can

 

Then there is the other side of the game....Brock is not there at all

 

But, still if I was taking one in the draft......I would take Brock way ahead of Jake

So would Stawns

i would like to see zone entry stats.  Im sure Jake does well.   i dont think Brock is not capable of zone entries etc....

 

my point i guess is that offensive "eliteness" as you describe above, cannot be taught.

the defensive side of center ice can be worked on.

 

BB just turned 23...Do you think Miller always looked like the player he is now?  He drove his coaches nuts with his inconsistency and MIA acts during the first few years of his career.

 

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2 minutes ago, Darius said:

not a jake hater at all.   just having a debate with Stawns over who is a better player Jake or BB....if you could keep one...

I dont like Brock's play away from the puck but he's still young ans that shluld improve. I want to see how he handles adversity. Itll be telling when he comes back. 

Jake on the other hand has gone through a lot. From benching to skating on line 5 in training camp with the other scrubs to doing a year in Utica. Hes taken all the criticism and has said all the right things. I really like Jake for that reason. Zero pouting. I feel like other players drafted where he was would have said something or wanted out. 

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1 hour ago, stawns said:

For this reason, I think Jake is harder to replace than BB.

Yeah not sure... maybe because I’m a fan boy of all our Canucks, and find it hard to let go of either. 
 

But yes I do understand, what you’re saying. Its a big call...

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1 minute ago, CanucksJay said:

I dont like Brock's play away from the puck but he's still young ans that shluld improve. I want to see how he handles adversity. Itll be telling when he comes back. 

Jake on the other hand has gone through a lot. From benching to skating on line 5 in training camp with the other scrubs to doing a year in Utica. Hes taken all the criticism and has said all the right things. I really like Jake for that reason. Zero pouting. I feel like other players drafted where he was would have said something or wanted out. 

no argument from me Jay.

Maybe brock needs a little tough love like Jake got too.  He is young enough to improve defensively.

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1 minute ago, spook007 said:

Yeah not sure... but think you need both. Driver of play and a finisher. 
Jake has improved and is still improving. In particular defensively, but who’s to say Brock can’t improve in that department as well...

But yes I do understand, what you’re saying. Its a big call..

I think we need to keep Jake and Boeser. Im sure there's a way to get rid of Eriksson and Baerstchi and a few other guys before losing one of them

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Maybe we are arguing the wrong subject.  Why cant we have Toffoli, Brock and Jake.  That would be a scary right side for any team to face.

 

They need to trim some of the anchor contracts.  Sutter, Baer, (Eriksson....offer him an office job upstairs for same salary if he retires lol)

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1 minute ago, Darius said:

no argument from me Jay.

Maybe brock needs a little tough love like Jake got too.  He is young enough to improve defensively.

My hope is that Green knows what he is doing and knows what motivates each player. Something tells me tough love works on Jake but not Boeser. He seems like a nice, sensitive guy and reasoning would work better lol. 

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1 minute ago, Darius said:

i would like to see zone entry stats.  Im sure Jake does well.   i dont think Brock is not capable of zone entries etc....

 

my point i guess is that offensive "eliteness" as you describe above, cannot be taught.

the defensive side of center ice can be worked on.

 

BB just turned 23...Do you think Miller always looked like the player he is now?  He drove his coaches nuts with his inconsistency and MIA acts during the first few years of his career.

 

No, I totally agree with your point, Darius

 

The question is.........."IF" we have to choose between Toffoli and Boeser

 

From what I have seen of Toffoli, over the years, and in the first 3 games

 

Is the down grade, if it is that, small enough that the asset gained by trading  Boeser plus keeping Toffoli

 

worth keeping Toffoli

 

I would be the first one to say, it is not an simple answer..............I would take Toffoli and the assets myself

 

But you are not wrong

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Canucks should continue to be investing in Brock’s long term success. Way too much potential. Fans need to stop reading into Brocks ability to drive play or enter to zone because we all have seen him do it and do it well in the past. This year had been a struggle but pretty normal for a 3rd year pro around the league.

 

I’d be looking at keeping all Toffoli, Virtanen and Boeser for many reasons.

JB has stated forever he wanted to add another top 6 forward. Now with a healthy Boeser that is finally complete.

 

Lets face it, The prospects coming in over the next couple years are NOT going to bust into the league like Petey and Boes, very high chance even with Podz. And before someone say how will we afford them all. JB is going to figure it out. He want all of them on the roster next year

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43 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

All good pts, SP. But then we wonder where VP & KL will come in?

 

Within the cap paradigm, IF your team is rising(oodles of young talent), I'd argue it's really wise to recycle 1 or 2 high profile pieces into more high picks(keeping the ELC conveyor belt rolling like a cheap sushi joint).

Good call.
But I think there’s room for them on the third/forth line to start. let them get a chance to grow... and in 1-2 years re- evaluate, and let them move forward. 
But yes with JV also in the mix there could be a log jam...

But good problems to have.... big chips in a game of poker...someone of the bigger players will have to go eventually, to stay within the cap. 

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1 minute ago, janisahockeynut said:

No, I totally agree with your point, Darius

 

The question is.........."IF" we have to choose between Toffoli and Boeser

 

From what I have seen of Toffoli, over the years, and in the first 3 games

 

Is the down grade, if it is that, small enough that the asset gained by trading  Boeser plus keeping Toffoli

 

worth keeping Toffoli

 

I would be the first one to say, it is not an simple answer..............I would take Toffoli and the assets myself

 

But you are not wrong

Toffoli is also entering his prime. Boeser is still improving his game. We dont know what Boeser in his prime will look like. (hence the risk). This team is not a contender yet (maybe a couple rounds?) 

That being said Boeser might be much better than Toffoli in 4 years when Boeser is 27.

If you were to tell me Boeser is at his best right now and his game wont improve, i would take TT no question asked.  I think the beauty on all of this is, we might keep them all. 

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7 minutes ago, Darius said:

no argument from me Jay.

Maybe brock needs a little tough love like Jake got too.  He is young enough to improve defensively.

He’s was getting that before the injury, I think Boeser being on the third line was more of a development move then anything.

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Just now, janisahockeynut said:

No, I totally agree with your point, Darius

 

The question is.........."IF" we have to choose between Toffoli and Boeser

 

From what I have seen of Toffoli, over the years, and in the first 3 games

 

Is the down grade, if it is that, small enough that the asset gained by trading  Boeser plus keeping Toffoli

 

worth keeping Toffoli

 

I would be the first one to say, it is not an simple answer..............I would take Toffoli and the assets myself

 

But you are not wrong

you make good points janis.

 

here is the way I look at it.

 

Its about core asset management.  You want to win with this core...once they start to get to late 20s you can trade them for young high end assets and you can continue with the next high level core.  Maybe you keep EP as the franchise player throughout his career.

 

If you trade a 23 year old for a 28 year old now, you are missing out on 5 great years of BB.  in 5 years TT will be 33, he wont be worth as much in his thirties.  We have seen several offensively gifted scorers who are average or below average skaters who hit a wall around 30 ....

 

The only way I trade BB is for a legit top pair young d man that can help this team now. Otherwise trading him for a high pick is a risk, and the pick wont help this core now.

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8 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

I think we need to keep Jake and Boeser. Im sure there's a way to get rid of Eriksson and Baerstchi and a few other guys before losing one of them

Me too. At least for the next couple of years, while VP and KL matures and hopefully also starts pushing for places. 

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