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[PGT] Vancouver Canucks at Montreal Canadiens | Feb. 25, 2020

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28 minutes ago, Darius said:

i would like to see zone entry stats.  Im sure Jake does well.   i dont think Brock is not capable of zone entries etc....

 

my point i guess is that offensive "eliteness" as you describe above, cannot be taught.

the defensive side of center ice can be worked on.

 

BB just turned 23...Do you think Miller always looked like the player he is now?  He drove his coaches nuts with his inconsistency and MIA acts during the first few years of his career.

 

No one is saying he isn't good, players who are they good generally don't get traded for a big return.  It's because he is good and because he has a scorers rep around the league that makes him such a valuable chip to play.  

 

Getting a top 10-15 pick for him at the draft (not to mentions add ons and chance to try and sign TT) goes a long, long way for the perpetual sustainability of this organizations success than keeping BB here, imo.

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7 minutes ago, stawns said:

No one is saying he isn't good, players who are they good generally don't get traded for a big return.  It's because he is good and because he has a scorers rep around the league that makes him such a valuable chip to play.  

 

Getting a top 10-15 pick for him at the draft (not to mentions add ons and chance to try and sign TT) goes a long, long way for the perpetual sustainability of this organizations success than keeping BB here, imo.

 

Id rather keep him for the next 5 years, unload him when he is 28 or 29 for a young asset instead of signing TT who will decline into his thirties and wont be worth much at the end of his contract in addition taking a high draft pick now that probably cant help you for the next 5 years (look at Jake picked at number 6 and how long he took to make an impact as an example)

 

in the end id use BB for the next 5 years and take the high draft pick or good young player when we are done with him (late twenties)rather than take an asset now that really cant help this core for a while.

 

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3 minutes ago, Darius said:

you make good points janis.

 

here is the way I look at it.

 

Its about core asset management.  You want to win with this core...once they start to get to late 20s you can trade them for young high end assets and you can continue with the next high level core.  Maybe you keep EP as the franchise player throughout his career.

 

If you trade a 23 year old for a 28 year old now, you are missing out on 5 great years of BB.  in 5 years TT will be 33, he wont be worth as much in his thirties.  We have seen several offensively gifted scorers who are average or below average skaters who hit a wall around 30 ....

 

The only way I trade BB is for a legit top pair young d man that can help this team now. Otherwise trading him for a high pick is a risk, and the pick wont help this core now.

I could not agree more with you, in general....

 

Toffoli 27

Brock 23

Jake 23

MacEwen 23

Jasek 22

Lind 21

Podkolzin 18

 

IMO, though when we look at our RW depth, it is pretty crazy. If you think of Toffoli giving us 4 solid years

that would put the remaining players right in the middle of their prime......

again, I am not saying we should, only that we should look at it

 

So, IMO we are set at RW and Center

and quite frankly, IMO, we have clue what we have on defense past Hughes

 

So, let's just say we move Brock for a Roster player, a 1st, and a prospect

 

Again, for illustration purposes.......

 

1)........Tippett, and a 1st

2)........Fox, and a 2nd

3)........DeAngelo and a 2nd

 

All these players are solid players and would help now

 

But still, there is a lot of trade ideas that could be floated, I just want to discuss them

 

I would trade Hughes if it benefited the club.........(wash my mouth out!) Sorry!

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1 hour ago, Darius said:

you make good points janis.

 

here is the way I look at it.

 

Its about core asset management.  You want to win with this core...once they start to get to late 20s you can trade them for young high end assets and you can continue with the next high level core.  Maybe you keep EP as the franchise player throughout his career.

 

If you trade a 23 year old for a 28 year old now, you are missing out on 5 great years of BB.  in 5 years TT will be 33, he wont be worth as much in his thirties.  We have seen several offensively gifted scorers who are average or below average skaters who hit a wall around 30 ....

 

The only way I trade BB is for a legit top pair young d man that can help this team now. Otherwise trading him for a high pick is a risk, and the pick wont help this core now.

You've made a good argument overall here, Good job! I think you're still kind of discounting the assets we would see from Boeser now. They certainly would have a chance to help this core very shortly if you're talking about first round picks, grade A prospects, or a younger player like Seth Jones, Dumba, or a plethora of other guys we don't know about. Plus if you count Toffoli as an addition as well we can't even say what those two will produce in the next 5 years. Both could produce minimal returns if they go close to free agency.

 

Really hard to say goodbye to our player with the best goal scoring potential though ... so I totally get where you are coming from.

 

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16 hours ago, xereau said:

Most of the actual money paid to him on the contract is gone after this bonus day (July 1? 15?).

 

Anyways, after that, his contract becomes far more palatable to certain cap structured teams.

 

We've all seen it, he still has game. 6 million in game, no.


Anyways, his hit is 6 across the contract, per season.

 

The most reasonable thing for the team would be for him to retire after this bonus is collected.

 

But he is still leaving several mill on the table at that point.

 

That being said, something in my guts telling me it's coming.

I believe he has made $56 million in his career....I don't think that will be enough to live on, the $7 Million on the table will be hard to walk away from, if he retires after the bonus is paid.

Joking aside, $7 Million is $7 Million.

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15 hours ago, JamesB said:

 

4. Although Montreal outshot the Canucks, the teams were basically even in high danger chances. Natural Stat Trick has it at 13-12 for Montreal. VancouverHabitant has a good commentary but I disagree with the statement that we had no business winning the game. This game could have gone either way. Obviously the Canucks started badly for about the first half of the first period. But Green made a good move to take the timeout and the Canucks were a lot better after that. I wonder what Green said

 

 

 

 

 

#$%&! hit#$&! skate, #$&! go for the net,  #$&! shoot,  #$&! hit the net, #$&! wake the #$&! up, #$&! pass,  #$&! get going!

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Would be a huge mistake to even think about trading Brock at this point of his career. 

He missed his first summer training due to back injury. 

Missed entire training camp in his second summer. Still managed to put up respectable points.

A lot of things he does to be effective were overlooked and when he went out of the lineup, I saw how worse of a team we were without him. 

And if JB has to go deal out a player like Madden to bring in Toffoli to replace Brock, it shows how much value he holds in our team. 

 

People shouldnt be so quick to think Brock is expendable at this point. 

He hasn't even remotely scratched his ceiling yet.

 

I would entrust the decision to JB. 

But I would be absolutely shocked to see Brock get dealt. 

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12 hours ago, spook007 said:

Spot on Stawns...

From here on in it will be tougher on the ice... and this will be a steep learning curve for our younger players.... 

As our best players Petersson and Hughes have marks on their backs, but the addition of both Miller and Toffoli and their play off experience (together with Beagle) will be of immense value in that department... 

Somehow I'm actually happy about it as well... This gives them a chance to get accustomed to the lack of calls, while there is still room for manoeuvre,

 

This is what Benning wanted the younger part of the team to learn and understand, by playing play off hockey.

 

Getting two point yesterday was a great start.

physical marks from getting hacked, cross checked and hit....too bad the bottom 6 don't have marks on them from protecting and giving pay back.

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7 hours ago, Alflives said:

If CDC posters ran our team Joe we’d be the Wings.  Losers with a capital L. 

disagree...I'd win a Stanley cup with this group....

but I'd have to try out Rafferty, Tryamkin, Bailey and MacEwen in place of some players prior to the playoffs...cause this team is making the #$&! playoffs!

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1 hour ago, stawns said:

No one is saying he isn't good, players who are they good generally don't get traded for a big return.  It's because he is good and because he has a scorers rep around the league that makes him such a valuable chip to play.  

 

Getting a top 10-15 pick for him at the draft (not to mentions add ons and chance to try and sign TT) goes a long, long way for the perpetual sustainability of this organizations success than keeping BB here, imo.

and 30 other GMS  would think Benning has lost his marbles!!!   having both Toffoli and Boeser  will go a long way to having our team  be in the top.  but anyways I think Benning is smart enough to have a plan in keeping both of them. he always wanted another top 6 player and now he does!! 

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2 hours ago, Darius said:

 

Id rather keep him for the next 5 years, unload him when he is 28 or 29 for a young asset instead of signing TT who will decline into his thirties and wont be worth much at the end of his contract in addition taking a high draft pick now that probably cant help you for the next 5 years (look at Jake picked at number 6 and how long he took to make an impact as an example)

 

in the end id use BB for the next 5 years and take the high draft pick or good young player when we are done with him (late twenties)rather than take an asset now that really cant help this core for a while.

 

I don't see anyway they can keep Boxes, Petey and QH for 5 years and keep the rest of the team in balance.  We don't want them to become the TOML.

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1 hour ago, Gawdzukes said:

You've made a good argument overall here, Good job! I think you're still kind of discounting the assets we would see from Boeser now. They certainly would have a chance to help this core very shortly if you're talking about first round picks, grade A prospects, or a younger player like Seth Jones, Dumba, or a plethora of other guys we don't know about. Plus if you count Toffoli as an addition as well we can't even say what those two will produce in the next 5 years. Both could produce minimal returns if they go close to free agency.

 

Really hard to say goodbye to our player with the best goal scoring potential though ... so I totally get where you are coming from.

 

People keep saying this, but his first year was 38/82 game pace, last year was a 31/82 game pace, this year is a 23/82 game pace.  Not exactly trending in the right direction for a supposed elite goal scorer. 

 

His rep is still as an elite goal scorer and that comes with a big return.  If you go by his numbers and he doesn't become the elite scorer people he will, then he won't bring back much in a few years.  The 500lb gorilla in the room is that he had yet come close to playing a full season.

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1 hour ago, Moose Nuckle said:

Hahaha people are actually saying we should trade Brock? What a bunch of pickler pals. 

You don't think a top 15 pick, another pick in the 2-3 round, a solid depth player and the cap space to sign TT has some logic to it? 

 

He's yet to play 70 games in a season and his goals/82 game pace had decreased significantly each year.  His value is still very high right now and it's a big risk to not move him, imo.

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2 hours ago, Pete M said:

I believe he has made $56 million in his career....I don't think that will be enough to live on, the $7 Million on the table will be hard to walk away from, if he retires after the bonus is paid.

Joking aside, $7 Million is $7 Million.

*$5m left after bonus. Over two years.

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3 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

But still, there is a lot of trade ideas that could be floated, I just want to discuss them

Something like Byram and a pick...?

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1 hour ago, LowerMainLander18 said:

Would be a huge mistake to even think about trading Brock at this point of his career. 

He missed his first summer training due to back injury. 

Missed entire training camp in his second summer. Still managed to put up respectable points.

A lot of things he does to be effective were overlooked and when he went out of the lineup, I saw how worse of a team we were without him. 

And if JB has to go deal out a player like Madden to bring in Toffoli to replace Brock, it shows how much value he holds in our team. 

 

People shouldnt be so quick to think Brock is expendable at this point. 

He hasn't even remotely scratched his ceiling yet.

 

I would entrust the decision to JB. 

But I would be absolutely shocked to see Brock get dealt. 

Yup. I have to laugh at the armchair GMs who are determined to believe that the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. It's not nearly as easy to find a player as good as Brock as they would like to believe.

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7 hours ago, spook007 said:

Snap.... I keep thinking the same thing... and wonder if that someone could end up being Boeser?

I don't want him gone. On the contrary, but 1+1=2, and no matter how its being twisted and turned, if they don't get rid of some of the usual suspects (Loui, Baer, Ruos, Sutter, Benn), hard decisions will have to be made...

 

Mind you, on the list of expendables, I think he is a good bit down the list behind Stecher, Tanev and maybe even Pearson... but I think it all comes down to how we fair during these play offs, provided we qualify....

 

Anyway, I always come to the same conclusion.... JB has a plan already. And it may not even include Tofoli in the future, although I think even Benning will have been taken aback at how well Toffoli has fitting with the rest of the team.... which is far better, that could have been hoped for, for a rental.

I'm sure JB has a plan but who moves will depend on the opportunity.  In other words, he knows what he's going to try to do but when you get down to it, you need a willing trade partner so what gets done will depend on finding partners for potential moves

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