Think about this just a little bit (Discussion)

[J.I.A.H.N]

Just finished watching a pregame interview of Bruce Cassidy, coach of the Boston Bruins.....

 

The first thing that I took from it was that he was talking about players going in and out of his lineup down on the 3rd and 4th lines, and how, now after the TDL, he now has some versatility to move guys around, and "although" they might loose a couple more games, it will be a benefit the team, long term. He goes on to say, that everything has to be taken into consideration, including being position to have home game advantage, and winning the presidents trophy. But he says...."Everything is a Balance.

 

The next thing that I notice, and had not given too much thought to, was that the Bruins Added Ritchie and Kase at the TDL, who have both been put on the 2nd line, being centered by David Krejci. 

 

Now, the thing here is, that the Boston coach and their GM, are both on the same page that adding players, and displacing players, will change the chemistry, and may take a while to adjust, but that it was better for the team, long term. Who can argue with long term success?

 

Now, I am not pointing fingers towards Green or Benning, but rather CDC, who constantly will object to moving players that are core or relatively important, for players that may better fit another much needed position. There are far too many times to list them all, but there are so many times in history where, teams have moved core players, and continued to win, and continued to win long term.

 

My point isn't that we should throw good players away, but rather that a successful team, will constantly move players around, always trying to tweak the roster, to get the most of it, long term,

and that short term goals take a back seat to long term goals. In Boston's case, this obviously means pushing guys down the lineup, or in some cases displacing them. Team chemistry, seems to be a secondary concern to talent and development.

 

Again, this isn't so much a statement against JB and TG, but more so, some on CDC, who will argue, it just isn't done! Never! That opinions that state otherwise, are only spoken by posters of limited intelligence. Think again! Brothers and Sisters! Boston's philosophy comes from the top, and is consistent. Never, stand still! 

 

So, before we loose Tanev, Toffoli or Stecher, ask your selves, if there are players that can be moved to retain these players, that will fill other holes, or strengthen our team, in an over all type of move. No, I am not saying, these players have to stay, only that player movement is like chess, and sacrificing a strong player, for the betterment of all, is not a poor strategy. 

 

Maybe this is too deep for some, or deemed not important by others, but IMO, we all could be better, for remembering this.

 

I am not in no way suggesting this, but it is an example of what I talk about...……..Trading Hughes, is a bad idea, if what coming back does not improve the team overall, but if trading him, bring in assets that improve the team overall, in a long term manner, it should be considered! No, I am not talking about trading Hughes! He should be considered rare, and worth a Kings ransom. But do not ignore the possibility that there is a trade out there, that accomplishes, a need and better improves the team.

 

OK....flame away!

[goalie13]

I watched the same interview.

 

The long term impact he was referring to was the playoffs.  He made the comment that the risk of resting players could result in the team dropping out of first place.  The difference with the Canucks is that a couple of points could be the difference between making the playoffs or not, and clearly, it is their goal to make the playoffs this year.

 

The Bruins simply have more breathing room than the Canucks.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

If Torts followed this policy as head coach of the Canucks; he might've lasted longer. He rode the vets like a rented mule to the point injuries started showing up.

 

Willie D was like the anti-Torts.  Rolled his lines ALWAYS which kept everybody fresh.  His fault?  He continued the same process in the playoffs.  You do NOT do that.  You start to double shift your better lines (especially since the Lames were hardly shutting down the Sedins when Ferland wasn't take free runs at everyone).

 

 

[SilentSam]

47 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

Just finished watching a pregame interview of Bruce Cassidy, coach of the Boston Bruins.....

 

The first thing that I took from it was that he was talking about players going in and out of his lineup down on the 3rd and 4th lines, and how, now after the TDL, he now has some versatility to move guys around, and "although" they might loose a couple more games, it will be a benefit the team, long term. He goes on to say, that everything has to be taken into consideration, including being position to have home game advantage, and winning the presidents trophy. But he says...."Everything is a Balance.

 

The next thing that I notice, and had not given too much thought to, was that the Bruins Added Ritchie and Kase at the TDL, who have both been put on the 2nd line, being centered by David Krejci. 

 

Now, the thing here is, that the Boston coach and their GM, are both on the same page that adding players, and displacing players, will change the chemistry, and may take a while to adjust, but that it was better for the team, long term. Who can argue with long term success?

 

Now, I am not pointing fingers towards Green or Benning, but rather CDC, who constantly will object to moving players that are core or relatively important, for players that may better fit another much needed position. There are far too many times to list them all, but there are so many times in history where, teams have moved core players, and continued to win, and continued to win long term.

 

My point isn't that we should throw good players away, but rather that a successful team, will constantly move players around, always trying to tweak the roster, to get the most of it, long term,

and that short term goals take a back seat to long term goals. In Boston's case, this obviously means pushing guys down the lineup, or in some cases displacing them. Team chemistry, seems to be a secondary concern to talent and development.

 

Again, this isn't so much a statement against JB and TG, but more so, some on CDC, who will argue, it just isn't done! Never! That opinions that state otherwise, are only spoken by posters of limited intelligence. Think again! Brothers and Sisters! Boston's philosophy comes from the top, and is consistent. Never, stand still! 

 

So, before we loose Tanev, Toffoli or Stecher, ask your selves, if there are players that can be moved to retain these players, that will fill other holes, or strengthen our team, in an over all type of move. No, I am not saying, these players have to stay, only that player movement is like chess, and sacrificing a strong player, for the betterment of all, is not a poor strategy. 

 

Maybe this is too deep for some, or deemed not important by others, but IMO, we all could be better, for remembering this.

 

I am not in no way suggesting this, but it is an example of what I talk about...……..Trading Hughes, is a bad idea, if what coming back does not improve the team overall, but if trading him, bring in assets that improve the team overall, in a long term manner, it should be considered! No, I am not talking about trading Hughes! He should be considered rare, and worth a Kings ransom. But do not ignore the possibility that there is a trade out there, that accomplishes, a need and better improves the team.

 

OK....flame away!

Saw the same interview Jan,   First I think Cassidy is fantastic with the media.. a layman, honest ,  positive..  of course with the Bruins well educated Media, asking proper questions are key to your longevity as a sports journalist..  unlike this town, where bad jokes and your high school drinking stories are the only prerequisite.

I think your realizing what has been installed in Boston for years..  

I do think it is Benning plan to open that back door of players exiting in their prime for top picks to keep the farm system supplied..

i think we start to see that happening next season..  I’ve talked before about how proper attrition of good players keeps top “blue” blood injected in an organization.

We have never had a true franchise farm system supplementing the Canucks,.  Benning has installed that, and it’s the next 3 years that we will see how a proper system of attrition works to keep a team on it top capabilities, and invested in the future. 

[Canuck Surfer]

1 hour ago, janisahockeynut said:

In Boston's case, this obviously means pushing guys down the lineup, or in some cases displacing them. Team chemistry, seems to be a secondary concern to talent and development.

Like us with Toffolli?

 

Boston felt they needed a talent injection. In first place, they were not getting our middle 6 production? Jakes 3rd line production is the same as DeBrusks 2knd line #'s. 

 

Were we really happy with Eriksson on our 2knd line? Jake moved up on our first??? 

 

And there also, we tried Jake on the first. Moved up, now back.  

 

We're not that different.

[coastal.view]

it's a spectrum janis

you are a trade a week or more often sort of guy

no gm does that

 

cassidy is talking about moving around non- core players

not sure why you had the need to throw hughes name in your post

i guess for dramatic effect?
 

as goalie13 pointed out

bruins are solidly in the playoffs already

so have more room to tinker

and the nucks are not in that position

 

and surfer is correct

the nucks are not a stand still team

there is roster movement

he has detailed some ... don't forget mcewan

 

for some reason you want more and more movement

too much can create chaos

and disrupt chemistry

you seem to want change for change sake too often

Edited February 29, 2020 by coastal.view

[J.I.A.H.N]

9 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

Like us with Toffolli?

 

Boston felt they needed a talent injection. In first place, they were not getting our middle 6 production? Jakes 3rd line production is the same as DeBrusks 2knd line #'s. 

 

Were we really happy with Eriksson on our 2knd line? Jake moved up on our first??? 

 

And there also, we tried Jake on the first. Moved up, now back.  

 

We're not that different.

Yes, I might not have been articulate enough, as I agree with your comments...…...

 

My points were......simply

 

#1...……..Team Chemistry is over-rated to an extent...…………..winning is the best way to build it!

#2...……..No one should be safe from trade consideration

 

It was more based on a Boeser proposal I read on here, where everyone just freaked at the idea of trading Boeser……..not that I think we should do it now, but all options should be open all the time

 

IMO, our forwards peaked, well before our Defense had been resolved, creating a frenzy on here about making the Playoffs. I am 62 years old (I want the playoffs!), but! IMO, were are here too early, as I am sure you know my opinion on that. Benning still has stuff to sort out, and he will, so in the big picture, we might as well be where we are, but I think that we need to sort out a few things

 

#1. Cap

#2. Defense, especially which prospects are actually good enough to play up here

 

Because, before that happens, we (Benning) still is make un-educated decisions about his defense...…..I mean, I know he has a way better handle on it than we do, but does anyone really know what our prospects can do?

 

Maybe in hind sight, Benning is ok with waiting another year to find out...maybe he knows that Tryamkin is/is not coming, maybe he knows that Rathbone is/is not signing, maybe he knows that his farm players are not ready......but for our discussion purposes on all our threads, we don't, so we assume...….you know what that does! LOL

[Nuxfanabroad]

It helps when your owner appears the Grand F***ingPoohbah of the BOG.

 

They can get stars on sweetheart contracts. Maybe Pastr gets 10 mill for lame DunkinDonut ads? Sure they have ways to give underhanded kickbacks, ensuring future stars will always want to play there.

 

There are so many ways for a dirty league to rig a deck for privileged markets. The playing field will never be level, especially for Cdn markets.

[coastal.view]

9 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

It helps when your owner appears the Grand F***ingPoohbah of the BOG.

 

They can get stars on sweetheart contracts. Maybe Pastr gets 10 mill for lame DunkinDonut ads? Sure they have ways to give underhanded kickbacks, ensuring future stars will always want to play there.

 

There are so many ways for a dirty league to rig a deck for privileged markets. The playing field will never be level, especially for Cdn markets.

more anti nhl conspiracy stuff

 

you think players on other teams

and other teams

do nothing to supplement income

by using corporate connections to hire their stars for paid promotion gigs ?

 

i doubt the league head office is involved in these shenanigans

but it is handled at the club level

by every team in the league

there is no team that does not do this

and big market teams are better able to arrange bigger bucks

 

Edited February 29, 2020 by coastal.view

[J.I.A.H.N]

11 minutes ago, coastal.view said:

it's a spectrum janis

you are a trade a week or more often sort of guy

no gm does that

 

cassidy is talking about moving around non- core players

not sure why you had the need to throw hughes name in your post

i guess for dramatic effect?
 

as goalie13 pointed out

bruins are solidly in the playoffs already

so have more room to tinker

and the nucks are not in that position

 

and surfer is correct

the nucks are not a stand still team

there is roster movement

he has detailed some ... don't forget mcewan

 

for some reason you want more and more movement

too much can create chaos

and disrupt chemistry

you seem to want change for change sake too often

True enough Coastal......

I do put a lot of trades out there, and I expect flack, but I do not put a trade date on any of them

for instance, if Benning can't keep Toffoli on the Canuck because of Cap reasons

Then maybe moving another player for something else can help make that happen......

My point was that no player should not be expendable......contrare to some posters views 

 

Yes...I did use Hughes for dramatic effect, but...………...

Gretzky, Dionne, Park, Neely, Barry Pederson, Rattelle, Thornton, Marleau, ect have all been traded at some point

Some earlier in their careers, some later in their careers...…….

 

As for Chemistry...it should be taught in school!...…….joke! But seriously, players want to play with good players, they may have a friend as a team-mate, but they understand that moving around is part of the game...….like I said earlier, Winning breads chemistry

[Nuxfanabroad]

1 minute ago, coastal.view said:

\more anti nhl conspiracy stuff

 

you think players on other teams

and other teams

do nothing to supplement income

by using corporate connections to hire their stars for paid promotion gigs ?

 

i doubt the league head office is involved in these shenanigans

but it is handled at the club level

by every team in the league

there is no team that does not do this

and big market teams are better able to arrange bigger bucks

 

You think this 2 billion $ biz is run HONESTLY?! Hey mahn, you're entitled to your opinions, as much as I am. If this were a donut shop, I'd chuckle uproariously, buying you a FREE TIMBIT for the entertainment factor.

 

Next pls educate us on the integrity of Las Vegas Casinos, I'd request after catching my breath...

[coastal.view]

1 minute ago, janisahockeynut said:

True enough Coastal......

I do put a lot of trades out there, and I expect flack, but I do not put a trade date on any of them

for instance, if Benning can't keep Toffoli on the Canuck because of Cap reasons

Then maybe moving another player for something else can help make that happen......

My point was that no player should not be expendable......contrare to some posters views 

 

Yes...I did use Hughes for dramatic effect, but...………...

Gretzky, Dionne, Park, Neely, Barry Pederson, Rattelle, Thornton, Marleau, ect have all been traded at some point

Some earlier in their careers, some later in their careers...…….

 

As for Chemistry...it should be taught in school!...…….joke! But seriously, players want to play with good players, they may have a friend as a team-mate, but they understand that moving around is part of the game...….like I said earlier, Winning breads chemistry

i just think you lose effect

due to your volume of posting

and you also lose perspective

 

nucks have been involved in some very big trades

they are not a do nothing team

as you seem to suggest

 

burke swung big to get the sedin draft picks

quinn built the 94 cup finals team through a massive trade

bure was traded by this club

luongo was acquired by nonis

i could go on

but those 4 are arguably the biggest

 

then there were the longshot ones

nasland acquired for next to nothing

neely given away for next to nothing

 

these sorts of deals happen once a decade or so

not annually

they are organization altering

 

and jb has done some significant deals himself

miller

toffoli

pearson

 

and on d

myers

fantenberg

benn

 

this team has been upgraded and altered a lot in the past year

it needs time to get more consistent and develop better chemistry

we see the potential of this team in glimpses

they have gone on runs

but need to be better against the top teams

it will take time

[coastal.view]

6 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

You think this 2 billion $ biz is run HONESTLY?! Hey mahn, you're entitled to your opinions, as much as I am. If this were a donut shop, I'd chuckle uproariously, buying you a FREE TIMBIT for the entertainment factor.

 

Next pls educate us on the integrity of Las Vegas Casinos, I'd request after catching my breath...

nope i don't think it is run honestly

i have already pointed out the clubs are involved in income supplement to its star players

i just do not adopt the extremes you advocate

 

we will never agree on this

so i don't think it valuable to debate it with you

i will simply comment from time to time

the you have a consistent viewpoint based on conspriracy theories

 

i have no idea what casinos based in las vegas has to do with the integrity of business in the nhl

but i'm sure you have a theory about that too

[J.I.A.H.N]

23 minutes ago, coastal.view said:

 

for some reason you want more and more movement

too much can create chaos

and disrupt chemistry

you seem to want change for change sake too often

So, first off...… I see where you are coming from, and suggest you post more trade proposals, as I don't see enough coming from you! LOL

(For every ying there is a yang! LOL)

 

But here is the question...…..are you saying that the team is perfectly built, with no holes? Are you saying that you do not have any idea's on how you would fix those problems?

That is what this forum is all about! I don't mind you commenting on my proposals, as long as you say why not.....just not NO! I actually have come to appreciate your opinion very much, when you give thorough opinion. Which you normally do with me, so we are good!

 

But no, I do not think all my proposals should be done immediately.....some should never been done. LOL And, as I am sure you know by now, sometime I make a proposal to have a dialogue on a subject...…...or see if will stick to the wall

[coastal.view]

1 minute ago, janisahockeynut said:

So, first off...… I see where you are coming from, and suggest you post more trade proposals, as I don't see enough coming from you! LOL

(For every ying there is a yang! LOL)

 

But here is the question...…..are you saying that the team is perfectly built, with no holes? Are you saying that you do not have any idea's on how you would fix those problems?

That is what this forum is all about! I don't mind you commenting on my proposals, as long as you say why not.....just not NO! I actually have come to appreciate your opinion very much, when you give thorough opinion. Which you normally do with me, so we are good!

 

But no, I do not think all my proposals should be done immediately.....some should never been done. LOL And, as I am sure you know by now, sometime I make a proposal to have a dialogue on a subject...…...or see if will stick to the wall

i really do not post trade proposals

except around the tdl

overall i feel that the changes need time to settle in

and i do not have that urge for constant change

 

a team needs to mature

it take tiime

it cannot be forced by constant change

it mostly cannot be done in 1 season

but takes 2 to 3 at least

few on these boards share the same patience

 

if this team is going anywhere

it has to come from within.. from the core drafted prospects

and changes made need to foster their development

jb has done a very good job on that front this season

the new pieces have been good to excellent

our core prospects from last season have stalled a bit this season in their development

which is why people are worried

 

i think we will see this team step up significantly next season though

and will easily sail into the playoffs

 

[Nuxfanabroad]

1 minute ago, coastal.view said:

nope i don't think it is run honestly

i have already pointed out the clubs are involved in income supplement to its star players

i just do not adopt the extremes you advocate

 

we will never agree on this

so i don't think it valuable to debate it with you

i will simply comment from time to time

the you have a consistent viewpoint based on conspriracy theories

 

i have no idea what casinos based in las vegas has to do with the integrity of business in the nhl

but i'm sure you have a theory about that too

No worries, my friend. I don't do 'debate', at any rate. Left that nonsense behind, back in NA'n society. There are two other extreme ideologies I prefer: the general consensus of a polite society(must be shocking to Yanks, I'd guess?); or going lone wolf, if one's outlook/philosophy is not easily integrated. and/or copacetic within the masses.

 

I remember discussing this with a bloke from Boston(was working with) back in the 1990's. At the time it seemed some incredible shock to us(lol) that individual folks try to draw opinions together, appease all & find some consensus. Felt like we'd found a diff planet! :^)

[J.I.A.H.N]

9 minutes ago, coastal.view said:

i just think you lose effect

due to your volume of posting

and you also lose perspective

Coastal, I was trained to do player evaluations up to and including Junior, in my past life, I can see IQ, Skating, commitment, physicalness etc......I see what the Canucks are lacking, whether you agree with me or not...I do post alot...but once I got really sensitive and apologized to a poster, who had played in the NHL, and he was fine with my opinion and supported me...am I always right? Hell no, and I expect you to call me on it. But I was trained in my personal and professional life to work on consensus for the most part, which is why I post the way I do......it is the way I do it......Plz note I very seldom criticize new posters, unlike some I know, because I want their ideas.......yes, sometimes I do, but very seldom

 

and compare to some people I am a light weight, when it come to posting

 

9 minutes ago, coastal.view said:

 

 

and jb has done some significant deals himself

miller

toffoli

pearson………………………......all traded for

 

and on d

myers

fantenberg

benn……………………………….all not traded for

 

 

 

[Westcoasting]

16 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

Coastal, I was trained to do player evaluations up to and including Junior, in my past life, I can see IQ, Skating, commitment, physicalness etc......I see what the Canucks are lacking, whether you agree with me or not...I do post alot...but once I got really sensitive and apologized to a poster, who had played in the NHL, and he was fine with my opinion and supported me...am I always right? Hell no, and I expect you to call me on it. But I was trained in my personal and professional life to work on consensus for the most part, which is why I post the way I do......it is the way I do it......Plz note I very seldom criticize new posters, unlike some I know, because I want their ideas.......yes, sometimes I do, but very seldom

 

and compare to some people I am a light weight, when it come to posting

 

 

You are a valued poster with great opinions and knowledge.... don't have to apologize to anyone especially if someone claims to have played in the NHL!!

[J.I.A.H.N]

 

12 minutes ago, coastal.view said:

 

overall i feel that the changes need time to settle in...…………………...

Yes, when a rebuild is complete....check the team roster from 3 years ago, or any teams for that matter, and compare it to this years

and i do not have that urge for constant change

Under wear and socks, underwear and socks!

 

a team needs to mature

When complete

it take time

Yes it does! With lots of change!

it cannot be forced by constant change

See above, and way above!

it mostly cannot be done in 1 season

I agree!

but takes 2 to 3 at least

A lot longer than that, my friend, with a lot of re-evaluation (Constantly!)

few on these boards share the same patience

I think I am one of those, especially on getting into the playoffs

 

if this team is going anywhere

it has to come from within.. from the core drafted prospects

It will come from drafting, UFA signings and trades, but the core pieces are normally gotten through drafting or hockey 1 for 1 trades

and changes made need to foster their development

jb has done a very good job on that front this season

the new pieces have been good to excellent Yes and no!

Miller- excellent addition

Toffoli - excellent addition, but done out of necessity...see Ferland and Boeser injuries......but he did good!

Myers - average at best, but filled a hole

Ferland - I don't know, but his value should have been higher....why was it not higher......because Jumbo took a risk at a price he could afford to

Benn - No so much

Fantenberg - For what he is, yes he did good

our core prospects from last season have stalled a bit this season in their development

Podkolzin is doing great in the K for an 18 year old

Hoglander is up and down

Woo is doing great as of late, for what he is

Rafferty is doing fantastic

DiPietro is doing very well

Juolevi is improving daily and has some nice reviews lately

Rathbone is doing fantastic and hopefully we sign him......I think he is a more all round Dman than Fox...we will see! 

Lind is having a much improved year...…...looking good

I don't know what you are talking about in this vain???????

 

i think we will see this team step up significantly next season though

I don't and they may take a step back, unless Benning does some creative Capology

But I suspect he will make the moves needed...…..but some fav's will be gone, I suspect

Prospects, picks or current players will be gone unless Eriksson does really retire

 

 

[JM_]

3 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

I am not in no way suggesting this, but it is an example of what I talk about...……..Trading Hughes, is a bad idea, if what coming back does not improve the team overall, but if trading him, bring in assets that improve the team overall, in a long term manner, it should be considered! No, I am not talking about trading Hughes! He should be considered rare, and worth a Kings ransom. But do not ignore the possibility that there is a trade out there, that accomplishes, a need and better improves the team.

 

OK....flame away!

Jan you nut, you. Trade Hughes?!?!?!

 

Of course the general principle makes sense, if you can make an improvement sure why not? But the problem is we live in a world of imperfect information. How do you know the team will be better off? no one wants to be the guy that traded away a Hughes level player for a David Booth return. Its too risky. Which is why you rarely see moves like that.