Jim Benning

[Alflives]

24 minutes ago, RU SERIOUS said:

Agree - the problem stems right at the top.  Like any organization,change must start there, so Aqua-Lini should sell the team to a new group that really wants to win and not use the franchise as a tax write-off against real-estate investments.

I think Aquilini is a real fan of the team, and (in that way) is a lot like us on CDC.  Trouble is he is too much like us, and is (IMO) extremely hands on.  He gets his nose into hockey operations, and he’s not a hockey expert.  JB is almost like Aquilini’s puppet. Linden refused to be a puppet, and quit.  Looks like Blackett sees what’s going on, and is quitting too.  I really don’t know if a quality, and experienced hockey GM would work for Aquilini.  If he does fire JB, I think it would be another rookie GM hire.  

[bree2]

On 3/5/2020 at 8:46 PM, Duodenum said:

Benning has a poor record stemming from the contracts he's given out.

 

Regardless of what was thought of the Ferland, Roussel, Sutter, Eriksson, and Beagle contracts at the time, they are all excessive bloat now. The only one even coming close to worth his weight in salary this year is maybe Sutter. That's 5 bottom six contracts weighing down the team at this time. If he's still with the team if they miss the playoffs again this year, it won't be because he deserves it. 

sorry disagree with you, Beagle  has been good for the team, 3rd in the nhl on face offs, penalty kill

[bree2]

6 hours ago, Pete M said:

JB's worst decision to date (no. it's not the LE contract) is not picking Tkachuk in the draft...he was an obvious choice and the type of player the Canucks have been wanting ever since....smart, high hockey IQ, power forward, leader, gritty and can score and set up plays.

 

This was a bad drafting decision.

let it go! who cares about Tkachuk stats, when he turtled on  Kassian everyone was name calling. but bottom line the Canucks didn't take him. water under the bridge

[theo5789]

So there's no more talk about pick hoarding being the only way to a championship?

[canuck73_3]

1 minute ago, theo5789 said:

So there's no more talk about pick hoarding being the only way to a championship?

Only to the same few posters by the looks of it. 
 

It's worked great for Toronto, they still don't have 6 NHL defencemen. 

[spur1]

50 minutes ago, bree2 said:

let it go! who cares about Tkachuk stats, when he turtled on  Kassian everyone was name calling. but bottom line the Canucks didn't take him. water under the bridge

And I am thankful they didn’t. 

[Duodenum]

51 minutes ago, bree2 said:

sorry disagree with you, Beagle  has been good for the team, 3rd in the nhl on face offs, penalty kill

Meh to both. You don't pay $3 million a year for defensive specialists. 

[JM_]

2 hours ago, Pete M said:

Tkachuk has been in NHL dressing rooms since he was a toddler....he had one thing in mind...pretty sure he picked things up along the way in that environment by being mentored at such a young age...not many players got the schooling he did on being an NHL player...it's not just a stat sheet...however, his stat sheet, his one and only year in junior is outstanding.

OK so... what then? whats your theory on why they passed? 

[mikeyman109]

37 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

OK so... what then? whats your theory on why they passed? 

 I think the kid said something in the interviews about not being big on Vancouver. His old man had lots of negatives when he played about Vancouver and they probably said they would prefer not to play here. Thus JB goes in another direction because they keep saying they took kids with character they liked. Its all easy to throw the rocks at JB but its more than possible the Tkachuck camp let it be know they would rather play somewhere else.

[stawns]

5 hours ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Tkachuk is looking great so far...

 

But I will briefly defend the Cam Neely trade.  The main reason the Canucks blundered was in underestimating the effects of Barry Pederson's injury in Boston.  Prior to that Pederson was en route to be a surefire Hall of Famer.  Like no questions asked.  I will stand by the claim that if you take away his injury in the mid-80s, Barry Pederson would be in the Hall of Fame and have his number retired in Boston.

 

Even still, in Vancouver he was very good.  70+ points back when that had him in the conversation as best player on the team.

 

I think not re-signing Ronning around 1995 was an all-time bad decision.  Signing Messier was an all-time bad decision.

 

Giving up on Rick Vaive and Bill Derlago was unfortunate.  Tiger Williams was important for us, but I think we could have acquired him for other assets.  Vaive became a perennial 50 goal scorer and Derlago a 40 goal scorer.

 

And some of our complete disaster first round picks since around 1990 are all time bungles.  I won't name names, but some bloody high picks never even played a single NHL game.

I'd say 98% of the people who use that trade as the "standard Canucks screw up" either weren't alive, were too young to have much knowledge at the time or weren't hockey fans.  Pedersen was a 100 point player and was on his way to being a star in the league and Neely though great, was still developing.  It should have been, at worst, a fair deal for both teams, but BP couldnt stay healthy in Van and that's the only reason it looks as bad as it does.

 

I loved Neely at the time, one of my favourite Canucks, but at the time I remember thinking "wow, they just traded for a star".

[JM_]

1 hour ago, mikeyman109 said:

 I think the kid said something in the interviews about not being big on Vancouver. His old man had lots of negatives when he played about Vancouver and they probably said they would prefer not to play here. Thus JB goes in another direction because they keep saying they took kids with character they liked. Its all easy to throw the rocks at JB but its more than possible the Tkachuck camp let it be know they would rather play somewhere else.

thats what I suspect as well, unfortunately we'll never know for sure, unless someone here is pals with MT and would like to spill the beans. 

[Baggins]

1 hour ago, stawns said:

I'd say 98% of the people who use that trade as the "standard Canucks screw up" either weren't alive, were too young to have much knowledge at the time or weren't hockey fans.  Pedersen was a 100 point player and was on his way to being a star in the league and Neely though great, was still developing.  It should have been, at worst, a fair deal for both teams, but BP couldnt stay healthy in Van and that's the only reason it looks as bad as it does.

 

I loved Neely at the time, one of my favourite Canucks, but at the time I remember thinking "wow, they just traded for a star".

The other thing is Pederson was a center, which we really needed. Neely was RW on the 3rd line playing behind Smyl and Tanti.

[Darkstar]

On 3/5/2020 at 8:46 PM, Duodenum said:

Benning has a poor record stemming from the contracts he's given out.

 

Regardless of what was thought of the Ferland, Roussel, Sutter, Eriksson, and Beagle contracts at the time, they are all excessive bloat now. The only one even coming close to worth his weight in salary this year is maybe Sutter. That's 5 bottom six contracts weighing down the team at this time. If he's still with the team if they miss the playoffs again this year, it won't be because he deserves it. 

With the exception of Ferland, they were all bad contracts at the time of the signing as well. I would throw Myers into the mix too. 

 

There's no way that a team can contend for the cup if they have so much dead cap on their team. 

 

I would say that Judd Brackett saved Jim Benning's job, as he pretty much built the core of this team (Pettersson, Boeser, Hughes). With the exception of Miller, every other core player came from a previous GM (Horvat, Markstrom, Tanev, Edler).

 

Benning should be fired, as the team has been successful in spite of him, and not due to him. The Canucks losing Judd Brackett would be 100 times more devastating than the Canucks losing Jim Benning. 

[khay]

11 hours ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Tkachuk is looking great so far...

 

But I will briefly defend the Cam Neely trade.  The main reason the Canucks blundered was in underestimating the effects of Barry Pederson's injury in Boston.  Prior to that Pederson was en route to be a surefire Hall of Famer.  Like no questions asked.  I will stand by the claim that if you take away his injury in the mid-80s, Barry Pederson would be in the Hall of Fame and have his number retired in Boston.

 

Even still, in Vancouver he was very good.  70+ points back when that had him in the conversation as best player on the team.

 

I think not re-signing Ronning around 1995 was an all-time bad decision.  Signing Messier was an all-time bad decision.

 

Giving up on Rick Vaive and Bill Derlago was unfortunate.  Tiger Williams was important for us, but I think we could have acquired him for other assets.  Vaive became a perennial 50 goal scorer and Derlago a 40 goal scorer.

 

And some of our complete disaster first round picks since around 1990 are all time bungles.  I won't name names, but some bloody high picks never even played a single NHL game.

So, why did we not re-sign Ronning? Just a cheap owner that didn't want to pay him or was it him that wanted to go elsewhere (I guess for mo' money)? 

 

[Kevin Biestra]

4 minutes ago, khay said:

So, why did we not re-sign Ronning? Just a cheap owner that didn't want to pay him or was it him that wanted to go elsewhere (I guess for mo' money)? 

 

 

He wanted to stay in Vancouver.  Quinn just kept lowballing him until the difference between what he could get here vs. elsewhere was night and day.  I'm not sure what role ownership played, if any.

[spook007]

12 hours ago, RU SERIOUS said:

Agree - the problem stems right at the top.  Like any organization,change must start there, so Aqua-Lini should sell the team to a new group that really wants to win and not use the franchise as a tax write-off against real-estate investments.

Owners that spend to the top every year should be replaced?

[Junkyard Dog]

4 hours ago, Darkstar said:

With the exception of Ferland, they were all bad contracts at the time of the signing as well. I would throw Myers into the mix too. 

 

There's no way that a team can contend for the cup if they have so much dead cap on their team. 

 

I would say that Judd Brackett saved Jim Benning's job, as he pretty much built the core of this team (Pettersson, Boeser, Hughes). With the exception of Miller, every other core player came from a previous GM (Horvat, Markstrom, Tanev, Edler).

 

Benning should be fired, as the team has been successful in spite of him, and not due to him. The Canucks losing Judd Brackett would be 100 times more devastating than the Canucks losing Jim Benning. 

I think people overrate Brackett. He was a part of the Gillis Regime that produce nobody in 5 years besides Bo. Only until after Benning came in we started seeing prospects.

[aGENT]

5 hours ago, Junkyard Dog said:

I think people overrate Brackett. He was a part of the Gillis Regime that produce nobody in 5 years besides Bo. Only until after Benning came in we started seeing prospects.

Somewhat agree. He's proven to be a highly capable head scout since Benning put him in that position and told him what to look for and how to look for it.

 

Nothing to sneeze at, and if we can retain him, I hope we do as he's proven to be good at his job. But Benning's a good part of the reason why he's had the opportunity to do so and learned a LOT of how to do it, from him.

[Ballisticsports.]

8 hours ago, Junkyard Dog said:

I think people overrate Brackett. He was a part of the Gillis Regime that produce nobody in 5 years besides Bo. Only until after Benning came in we started seeing prospects.

I somewhat agree too

We have always had prospects,

They just never translated to the NHL (As a lot of our prospects have yet to prove themselves)

Odd how people build up and praise the drafting of Fox,Dahlen,McCann,Madden etc  etc

Then when traded, they crap on these players saying they were useless? (while they are still young)

But then use the young logic to defend the ones we still have (that is until they too are gone)

We also never had the luxury to own and control and groom our players as we do now, with our own farm team

Then, we were basically only drafting 2nd round players while being at the top of the league standings

We also traded away lots of picks going all in while at the top  as for having bare shelves later (real late picks, then giving away our best picks we had in trades)- I see us doing this already , (while not at the top of the league)

You cannot buy a young EP, Hughes etc You have to draft them, and I personally wanted one more franchise player to draft, before trading away picks (we are not close enough yet to do that imo)

They started out drafting with losing out on the best top 6 picks (now they pick the BPA)

Brock was drafted as BPA and where he was rated in his Draft,

EP while still a top prospect 2 European o/a, but his size a question mark holding him back, while turning out to be their best draft pick ever and Benning credited Gradin for pushing that cause  (Not Brackett or himself), and Quinn fell to us as another BPA  no brainer to take as he wasn't a unforeseen pick 

 

I believe Benning and Aquaman know how important Judd is and will act accordingly

I found it interesting that they promoted Chris Gear to assistant manager who was doing player contracts ( which I never thought were a super strong strength of the team)

Maybe Brackett was even offered the job and turned it down and is happy doing what he does now?

At the same time if he has ambitions, maybe he doesn't see the opportunity for growth here and is exploring his options elsewhere? (Seattle)?

Edited March 9, 2020 by ba;;isticsports
Add more, posted too soon by mistake

[Lazurus]

9 hours ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

He wanted to stay in Vancouver.  Quinn just kept lowballing him until the difference between what he could get here vs. elsewhere was night and day.  I'm not sure what role ownership played, if any.

Not Quinn or the owners, they were on holidays in Hawaii, it was left to George McPhee and when there was not answer he signed with Phoenix. McPhee was trying to low ball him and it back fired. McPhee's role was reduced after.

 

Under Gillis, the season he was fired, the team had just changed the scouting department.

 

5 hours ago, Junkyard Dog said:

I think people overrate Brackett. He was a part of the Gillis Regime that produce nobody in 5 years besides Bo. Only until after Benning came in we started seeing prospects.

This is an old story, winning or picking in the top 7? Which do you think would have better players available? Gillis picking at #29 or Benning's 2nd round pick at 33?

I am overly impressed with all the prospects produced that were selected after #22 playing on the team now.

 

Still not one contract resolved? Why is that? To make it a mad scramble after the season and before the draft? To make it even harder to "plan" a cap strategy? Or simply there is no plan and some FA's are walking away with nothing in return. That would resolve some cap issues.