Popular Post JM_ Posted March 10, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted March 10, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Alflives said: Sutter, Loui, and the old folks are teaching the kids the right way? How many of these sages do we need? We sure seem to have a lot of them. yeah they are. Sutter is a good player when he's healthy and I do think Gaud's learned from him. Same with Loui Loui, he's been very good handling himself under hard circumstances outside of 1 not so smart interview. Beagle is great, don't dis Beagle. And I don't think Sutter or Loui are back next year. Edited March 10, 2020 by Jimmy McGill 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 3 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: yeah they are. Sutter is a good player when he's healthy and I do think Gaud's learned from him. Same with Loui Loui, he's been very good handling himself under hard circumstances outside of 1 not so smart interview. Beagle is great, don't dis Beagle. And I don't think Sutter or Loui are back next year. If JB can dump Sutter, Loui, and Baer this summer (add Benn) he’d be my new hero. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballisticsports. Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 24 minutes ago, Alflives said: If JB can dump Sutter, Loui, and Baer this summer (add Benn) he’d be my new hero. Lol Your new hero is the same guy who brought them in Sure hope he can off load them without costing picks and prospects, because we don't have the cap It would have to be including useful players, which ones though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 3 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: its all the theoretical picks we could have had for taking on other teams problems. So we'd have those guys now instead of guys that can contribute and teach the kids the right way to play. In reality how many of those deals do you see happen from year to year? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 39 minutes ago, Alflives said: Sutter, Loui, and the old folks are teaching the kids the right way? How many of these sages do we need? We sure seem to have a lot of them. Better to surround the young guy with those than the Megna's and Skille's don't you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 29 minutes ago, The 5th Line said: Why are you asking me how it's hurting the team now after I just explained how it is hurting the team now? Weak explanation and unrealist ideas of if's and but's. So no, I don't see it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazurus Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Baggins said: 45 minutes ago, Alflives said: Sutter, Loui, and the old folks are teaching the kids the right way? How many of these sages do we need? We sure seem to have a lot of them. Better to surround the young guy with those than the Megna's and Skille's don't you think? I thought you post saga's, that word fit too. How about surrounding the young guys with players like Miller, Pearson, Toffoli and Sutter, players like those were available every year and if all the draft picks traded away were used for that they could have been traded for years ago and still have as many draft picks as now. Edited March 11, 2020 by Lazurus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 1 hour ago, Baggins said: In reality how many of those deals do you see happen from year to year? couple. Hey had we not done the retool/rejig/revamp-on-the-fly thing for the Willie D years and gone full tank, sure take on a Marleau. But tanking (on purpose) wasn't part of the plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 20 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: But tanking (on purpose) wasn't part of the plan. Stealth tank. You reckon they honestly believed we would win with guys like Bartkoski or Megna? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 8 hours ago, WHL rocks said: I watched their dad get drafted and watched him his entire career. Keith hung the Jets out to dry for a massive contract. One while the Provincial govt was covering their losses. The repurcussions first saw Teemu traded. And that after signing a sweetheart deal to help the club. Then public backlash of the govt purse paying a spoiled athletes millionaire wage. Subsequently public subsidization of the Jets was withdrawn. The team left town. Calgary & Ottawa can keep their's. Tkachuk is a four letter word to me & many who grew up in Winnipeg. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHL rocks Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 1 minute ago, Canuck Surfer said: Keith hung the Jets out to dry for a massive contract. One while the Provincial govt was covering their losses. The repurcussions first saw Teemu traded. And that after signing a sweetheart deal to help the club. Then public backlash of the govt purse paying a spoiled athletes millionaire wage. Subsequently public subsidization of the Jets was withdrawn. The team left town. Calgary & Ottawa can keep their's. Tkachuk is a four letter word to me & many who grew up in Winnipeg. What did you expect, him to play for free or under market value in a foreign country, and the least desirable NHL city in the entire league, because Canadian economy sucked? I wish Sakic or Yzerman and the likes came back to Canada to do that. For a guy to be born and raised in Boston to go to equivalent of Siberia I think he was great for not asking out earlier. He stayed with WPG for 5 years then another 5 or 6 years with Phoenix when the team moved there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 1 hour ago, WHL rocks said: What did you expect, him to play for free or under market value in a foreign country, and the least desirable NHL city in the entire league, because Canadian economy sucked? I wish Sakic or Yzerman and the likes came back to Canada to do that. For a guy to be born and raised in Boston to go to equivalent of Siberia I think he was great for not asking out earlier. He stayed with WPG for 5 years then another 5 or 6 years with Phoenix when the team moved there. O'Reilly won a cup last year. That he jammed every team prior. Both for what he wanted. And the money he could leverage? I imagine he's not popular in Colrado or Buffalo. But they never left town over his salary demands. What do I really think? Winnipeg should have sat him out till they could trade him. Its not unlike any other business. They should not have made salary offers they could not pay. Florida still has their team because they have done it on an ongoing basis. Some dumb ass GM thought Tkachuk was a big tough N American kid. Paid him twice Selanne. All these decisions were costly. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 14 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said: Stealth tank. You reckon they honestly believed we would win with guys like Bartkoski or Megna? Willie did I think management wasn't aligned. Thankfully Jim brought in a new scouting system and a good rebuild happened anyway. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phat Fingers Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 15 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said: Stealth tank. You reckon they honestly believed we would win with guys like Bartkoski or Megna? The Memorial Cup, here we come! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 18 hours ago, The 5th Line said: Well you didn't really explain why it was weak and unrealistic. Both sides of the argument will inevitably have some ifs and buts. Using the "who cares it's not our money" argument is completely irrelevant so I'm not sure you understand what I am trying to say anyways. Well you did seem upset about spending to cap while rebuilding. My answer to that is who cares, we don't have to pay the salaries. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 On 3/10/2020 at 11:11 AM, Jimmy McGill said: so they just got lucky with Petey, Hughes, Boeser, Hoglander, Podkolzin, Rathbone, Woo, etc etc? Man you're sure hanging a lot on one draft. just talking about his big f up....Gave him lots of credit for what he has done....but he could have done a lot better by not making the big f up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devron Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 Y’all still complaining about our pretty darn good GM? Every GM has made mistakes - All OF Them. I seriously doubt we’d have a better team then we do now without him. Most likely at the bottom of the standings still Cant believe this thread is still hopping lol 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the grinder Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 21 hours ago, Lazurus said: I thought you post saga's, that word fit too. How about surrounding the young guys with players like Miller, Pearson, Toffoli and Sutter, players like those were available every year and if all the draft picks traded away were used for that they could have been traded for years ago and still have as many draft picks as now. lol that makes no sense at all , how else are you going to make a trade? either with picks or players again a 1st round pick for 1st line production with miller , at a reasonable contract , pearson for guddy got something out guddy , toffoli again a top 6 player for a 2nd and madden , do you want winning or losing and draft picks 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alt kilgore Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 22 hours ago, The 5th Line said: People are making up their own definition of the word rebuild, that's the issue here. What is a rebuild? Is it collecting young assets and evaluating the situation with patience, or is it making deadline acquisitions for veterans and shooting for playoffs? How is the latter a rebuild? If you are rebuilding your house do you want a newer, younger foundation or do you want to add a roof with busted shingles from someone else's house? If the latter is a rebuild, are the Penguins rebuilding too? Like, I'm confused by these definitions of "rebuilding". We don't need spare cap space to add legitimate producers when they become available? It's fine to have Beagle, Loui, Sutter, Baertschi, Myers eating over 20million dollars and scoring a combined 20 goals? I've seen this argument far too often on CDC. "we don't need to worry about the cap because we aren't ready to compete yet anyway" well if we had more cap, we could help add to our team and make us ready. Veteran leadership is very important to a young team but not at these prices Should we hang on to those 5 players I named? We'll exclude Myers since he's the newcomer and obviously he's here to stay. If your answer is no, well I hate to break it to you but nobody is taking these contracts off our hands unless we add prospects/picks. Why is cap space important? Well Toffoli, Markstrom, Tanev, Virtanen need contracts this year, then our 3 young studs the year after that. Without moving out some dead weight, probably 2 of those 4 guys will be gone. We will add pieces to get rid of those contracts, and this might all be before we even get any playoff experience. Our prospect pool can go from stocked to not stocked in a real hurry. You say we had 10+ mil in cap space a couple of years? Okay so what did we do with it? Nothing? No weaponization, no creativity, no long term goals.. We saved it and waited to see how many 31 year old 4th line centers would be available in the free agency. #rebuild #rushed I also need to add that I have never once said GMJB should be fired. I don't ask for firings, it's just too cynical, even for a guy like me who expresses himself quite freely on this website. Plus there is too much that goes on behind the scenes for us to know who to blame when things go south. I don't care who's fault it is, I just want it done right cause I hate losing and I hate being a part of this losing culture. You can't call me impatient when I wanted it done slowly and carefully from the start and all we did was spend buckets of money instead of taking advantage of free space and sat tight at the deadlines. I don't want them to tear everything down, it's way passed that point. I'm along for the ride and have been cheering hard for the boys but this embarrassing choke job that is happening right before our very eyes just brings out the evil in me you know? Mayor of Rightville right here. Hey, I'm not saying I'm not enjoying watching the team we have now. But its a yuuuuuuge risk deciding to basicaly stall any rebuild and go mostly all in this season. This after years of "we are a playoff team" "all we need are a few foundational pieces like Vey, LE, Gagner etc, and we are set. Couldn't even mention the word "rebuild". Not many GMs have a net loss of picks in there rebuilding years. https://www.capfriendly.com/trades/staff/jim-benning Bennings aquisions that involved trading picks away or a net loss of picks for at least a part of the deal: Roland McKeown - 7th Nick Bonino, Lucas Sbisa - 3rd Linden Vey - 2nd Derek Dorsett. - 3rd Andrey Pedan. - 3rd Sven Baertschi. - 2nd Brandon Prust. - 5th Brandon Sutter - 2nd Philip Larsen. - 5th Erik Gudbranson - 2nd JT Miller - 1st and 3rd In that time we recieved back, 1 - 1st, 2 - 2nds, 3 - 3rds 1 - 4th 1 - 5th, 2 - 7ths net loss Not mentioning the loss of prospects McCann and Madden. At the same time topping up the cap each summer with "foundational" pieces to extended term that we now must deal with, that every year we were led to believe were the final peices in getting us to the dance each season. No need to list all of those. Of course we still need to fill out our roster. Its not that, but how and when and how much cap and term JB has set us up for to deal with. Are we still rebuiiding or not? I don't even know anymore. Nice to have the talents of Miller and Tofolli (at least for the rest of the season) in the now. I am enjoying the moment. Those trades worked out as best they could for what they were. But IF we are still two years away, as those who argue everything is fine do, why are we acting like a team that is ready now? What if we end up having to still keep Sutter, LE, Beagle, Baertschi, eating up 14 mill cap next season? We may lose a Tanev, or Markstrom, Tofolli, or Stecher and so be actually weaker next season, yet still be up against the cap. What then come TD? Trade away another future 1st or top prospect to keep in the race? All that on top of having given away more picks than he's gained in his tenure? The more picks the greater odds of landing keepers. Ottawa is doing what we should have been doing in JB first years. Craig Buttons recently was saying Woo is not looking so good anymore for instance. JB is playing a dangerous game if you look at the long term build, and having enough young talent to compliment our present young core in that 2 years time. I know I know, enjoy the moment. Live in the present. I am. I'm stoked to hopefully see some playoff action this season. But there are issues JB is setting himself up for with this haphazard way of building a team. Can't deny that. But I'm just trying to shelve that as best I can for now. Who knows, maybe a miricle will happen. LE will retire. And/or someone will take Sutter and/or Baertschi. Prospects like Rafferty and others will be ahead of the curve, Tryamikin will come back and make a difference. Tofolli will be able to re-sign. A lot of things will have to go right. I'm hoping they do. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazurus Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 1 hour ago, the grinder said: lol that makes no sense at all , how else are you going to make a trade? either with picks or players again a 1st round pick for 1st line production with miller , at a reasonable contract , pearson for guddy got something out guddy , toffoli again a top 6 player for a 2nd and madden , do you want winning or losing and draft picks 1 hour ago, the grinder said: 23 hours ago, Lazurus said: I thought you post saga's, that word fit too. How about surrounding the young guys with players like Miller, Pearson, Toffoli and Sutter, players like those were available every year and if all the draft picks traded away were used for that they could have been traded for years ago and still have as many draft picks as now. lol that makes no sense at all , how else are you going to make a trade? either with picks or players again a 1st round pick for 1st line production with miller , at a reasonable contract , pearson for guddy got something out guddy , toffoli again a top 6 player for a 2nd and madden , do you want winning or losing and draft picks I pointed out that those players named are good for the young guys BUT why did it take 5 years to trade for that type? Why get rid of all the draft picks? I know for sure that the Vegas example was used as an example many times and that other teams this group is chasing started their rebuilds after the Canucks. In short partially because there are not enough draft picks on the team, JB traded a 1rst, 2nd, 3rd, and two prospects one an "A" prospect and in return the team is barely in the playoffs with Tanev hurt now and no defensive depth and most probable a rental in Toffoli but they will have MIller for another three years. The constant refrain has been patience and build through the draft not using the draft picks supposedly. Trading away 1rst, 2nd, 3rd and A prospects on a team that wasn't close to playoffs in the last 4 years anything screams how desperate Benning is to make the playoffs, at all and any costs. The off season will be interesting, all those contracts to negotiate, deciding which player they let go for nothing, the planning, I hope for Pettersson and Hughes contracts, the expansion draft and how to replace some of the butcher bill. 18 mil or less and 14 - 15 players to sign. The team is 8 million over the cap now thanks to LTIR but they don't start that way next year it is more than possible they might be being penalized for going over the cap when Boeser came off LTIR Benning is infallible, I get your position but I will always doubt, who is to say that Bonino would have hurt here or that McCann could not have become a third line center here? Or packaging up 3 2nd round picks all in the 35 range, would not have got a good player? It isn't like any of those moves actually helped the team win more games. The trades he made, going ALL in, are pretty good, it just 6 years that's all. those picks have always been there so the Gillis left the cupboard bare as a reason is stupid. It is the really bad contracts that capped the team out and prevented other possible deals that could have helped the team. You are so "now" in the moment only, sure he got something out of Gudbranson, but it was his mistake trading for him in the first place. Don't get confused with this team's first round pick productions, Virtanen, Juolevi and McCann (though he seems to found his game) aren't exactly lighting it up as much as their peers drafted after them are. 70 points is 2nd line production on a lot of the top teams too. I think many people have just used to seeing such bad hockey that this small improvement looks like a giant leap. Well wait until the end of the season and see the twisted ankle. That is if there is a rest of the season. What if the team doesn't make the playoffs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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