BPA Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 5 minutes ago, aGENT said: Seriously though, cratering global oil price war...so rather than letting it simply tank our economy, jobs etc, invest in the country, build a pipeline East (partially owned by QUE and First Nations as you suggest), start building refineries and restart a NEP that makes sense for the country and includes an increasing transition away from fossil fuels while supplying our countries own energy. Trudeau gets to keep oil worker jobs afloat, spread energy wealth across, and to the benefit of the country, and reduce our dependence on foreign oil and their whims. We'd have to get Alberta on board with selling their countrymen below market oil and other parts of Canada owning pipelines etc. But you'd have to think even they're not short sighted enough to ignore what's happening with global oil prices and hence their industry/jobs (though they have surprised me before!). Good luck with getting Alberta on board. Something that makes sense to some of us is a non-starter for some of them. Like a modest PST. Hell no!!! AB is going to be hit hard if this keeps up. In order to avoid a total collapse, I think the Feds need to step in and prop up Alberta. Maybe devote a significant $$ for infrastructure improvements (building stuff that takes 5-6 years to complete) should keep the economy going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 7 minutes ago, aGENT said: Seriously though, cratering global oil price war...so rather than letting it simply tank our economy, jobs etc, invest in the country, build a pipeline East (partially owned by QUE and First Nations as you suggest), start building refineries and restart a NEP that makes sense for the country and includes an increasing transition away from fossil fuels while supplying our countries own energy. Trudeau gets to keep oil worker jobs afloat, spread energy wealth across, and to the benefit of the country, and reduce our dependence on foreign oil and their whims. We'd have to get Alberta on board with selling their countrymen below market oil and other parts of Canada owning pipelines etc. But you'd have to think even they're not short sighted enough to ignore what's happening with global oil prices and hence their industry/jobs (though they have surprised me before!). If AB isn’t already selling their oil at a discount to Canadians what do you call $13 Billion in equalization payments? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, Boudrias said: If AB isn’t already selling their oil at a discount to Canadians what do you call $13 Billion in equalization payments? Ignorant whining. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 1 hour ago, aGENT said: Seriously though, cratering global oil price war...so rather than letting it simply tank our economy, jobs etc, invest in the country, build a pipeline East (partially owned by QUE and First Nations as you suggest), start building refineries and restart a NEP that makes sense for the country and includes an increasing transition away from fossil fuels while supplying our countries own energy. Trudeau gets to keep oil worker jobs afloat, spread energy wealth across, and to the benefit of the country, and reduce our dependence on foreign oil and their whims. We'd have to get Alberta on board with selling their countrymen below market oil and other parts of Canada owning pipelines etc. But you'd have to think even they're not short sighted enough to ignore what's happening with global oil prices and hence their industry/jobs (though they have surprised me before!). How do you ask a private company to make less because it's being sold to Canadians? Are you suggest Alberta tops it up to these companies? 1 hour ago, BPA said: Good luck with getting Alberta on board. Something that makes sense to some of us is a non-starter for some of them. Like a modest PST. Hell no!!! AB is going to be hit hard if this keeps up. In order to avoid a total collapse, I think the Feds need to step in and prop up Alberta. Maybe devote a significant $$ for infrastructure improvements (building stuff that takes 5-6 years to complete) should keep the economy going. Same questions for you. 1 hour ago, Boudrias said: If AB isn’t already selling their oil at a discount to Canadians what do you call $13 Billion in equalization payments? More like over 20 billion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 4 hours ago, Ghostsof1915 said: Boy good thing they elected a guy who is totally in control and understands science, medicine, and technology, and international relations..... The only fake news is coming out of his mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BPA Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 1 minute ago, Ryan Strome said: Same questions for you. Make it a Crown owned corporation? Canada owns it, extracts it, refines it, and sells it to the rest of the Provinces? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 I guess this will be just an excuse for Trudeau to import more oil from Saudi Arabia? https://www.canadaaction.ca/how_much_oil_does_canada_import Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 3 minutes ago, BPA said: Make it a Crown owned corporation? Canada owns it, extracts it, refines it, and sells it to the rest of the Provinces? So Ottawa would buy it all? Do you realize the cost? And now Ottawa would have full control over our #1 resource? How about Ottawa eliminate the royalty it gets and use that money to top it up to private business? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 (edited) Nm Edited March 9, 2020 by Ryan Strome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BPA Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 6 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said: So Ottawa would buy it all? Do you realize the cost? And now Ottawa would have full control over our #1 resource? How about Ottawa eliminate the royalty it gets and use that money to top it up to private business? So you want Ottawa to "bail-out" the oil industry. Just want to confirm that is what you meant. Also, don't know your stance of "bail-out" for other industries (ie. auto, etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 5 minutes ago, BPA said: So you want Ottawa to "bail-out" the oil industry. Just want to confirm that is what you meant. Also, don't know your stance of "bail-out" for other industries (ie. auto, etc). When did I say Ottawa should bail anyone out. Great discussion you totally didn't respond to my post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 1 hour ago, Boudrias said: If AB isn’t already selling their oil at a discount to Canadians what do you call $13 Billion in equalization payments? Justified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 41 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said: How do you ask a private company to make less because it's being sold to Canadians? Are you suggest Alberta tops it up to these companies? Same questions for you. More like over 20 billion. OK, we'll do it your way and just let the industry collapse and all the jobs disappear then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 38 minutes ago, BPA said: Make it a Crown owned corporation? Canada owns it, extracts it, refines it, and sells it to the rest of the Provinces? Commie! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 Just now, aGENT said: OK, we'll do it your way and just let the industry collapse and all the jobs disappear then. Or just build two pipeline's and let business look after itself. Can we do the same with BC lumber so we all get cheaper houses? Btw great answer. Guess it means you have no answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuckin_futz Posted March 9, 2020 Author Share Posted March 9, 2020 2 hours ago, Kragar said: Wouldn't California get hit with some of the job losses? We have a not insignificant oil industry, albeit one that's been declining for some time. Our oil is not the cheapest to extract, so our oil workers would more likely to get laid off when prices are low. And, regarding how it impacts the economy as a whole, what has happened with previous changes? Haven't high gas prices had a negative impact on the econony before? Trump's tweet may only reflect a narrow view, but I don't think he is wrong. Yes, but compared to the other regions California is small potatoes. It would depend on a lot of factors like cost of production, even the debt levels of the individual companies. Yes high gasoline prices are a drag on the economy but not as much as having your energy independence whittled away. Yeah he's not wrong on that matter however playing that up while ignoring to acknowledge the damage this will do to domestic producers is IMO more than a little crass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kragar Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 1 minute ago, nuckin_futz said: Yes, but compared to the other regions California is small potatoes. It would depend on a lot of factors like cost of production, even the debt levels of the individual companies. Yes high gasoline prices are a drag on the economy but not as much as having your energy independence whittled away. Yeah he's not wrong on that matter however playing that up while ignoring to acknowledge the damage this will do to domestic producers is IMO more than a little crass. How does this mess with energy independence? I can see it having an effect if it goes on long enough that workers in the industry move on to something else, and unused infrastructure degrades. But if SA is gonna sell it on the cheap, I would think they are the ones with the most to lose by this. Other countries, whether energy dependent or not, should be able to stock up for now, and return to normal later on. But, that could well be too simplistic a view. I know you are closer to stuff like this, so your insight is helpful. Anyhow, I think I have a possible solution... withhold military sales from them, IMO. They want (both of) our weapons, well, maybe they need to play nice with their oil prices. Gotta figure the other OPEC countries are pissed over this, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 36 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said: Or just build two pipeline's and let business look after itself. Who's paying for these? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuckin_futz Posted March 9, 2020 Author Share Posted March 9, 2020 3 minutes ago, Kragar said: How does this mess with energy independence? I can see it having an effect if it goes on long enough that workers in the industry move on to something else, and unused infrastructure degrades. But if SA is gonna sell it on the cheap, I would think they are the ones with the most to lose by this. Other countries, whether energy dependent or not, should be able to stock up for now, and return to normal later on. But, that could well be too simplistic a view. I know you are closer to stuff like this, so your insight is helpful. Anyhow, I think I have a possible solution... withhold military sales from them, IMO. They want (both of) our weapons, well, maybe they need to play nice with their oil prices. Gotta figure the other OPEC countries are pissed over this, too. The cheapest oil is what is going to be used. Let's say oil drops to $20/barrel. And the US shale producers cannot produce it that cheap. What is industry going to do? Pay above market for domestic oil or import the cheap stuff? They'll use the cheap stuff. Then you're beholden to foreign sources of cheap energy again. Then they have you over a barrel. No pun intended. OK it was intended. Russia said today they can ride out $25-30 oil for 6-10 years. Pretty sure the Saudi's can too. If USA withholds military sales the Russians, Chinese, French, Germans, Brits, Canadians etc will gladly pick up the slack. Yeah other OPEC members have to be pissed but there's zip they can do about it. No one is afraid of Ecuador, Gabon or Angola. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuckin_futz Posted March 9, 2020 Author Share Posted March 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, aGENT said: Who's paying for these? Mexico 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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