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Lazurus

[Discussion] Are You Afraid If They Blow It Up? Should They?

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I wouldn't blow it up.

 

All they need to do is get rid of 4 bloated contracts and fix the d.

 

Another game changer would be nice and if they miss the playoffs they could draft him.

 

 

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4 hours ago, Tre Mac said:

Honestly an organizational overhaul is the one and only positive if they choke and miss the playoffs, rather they kept Green and fired everyone else tbh but if they all have to go so be it, as long as Benning is the first to get the pink slip(here comes more confused emojis!@!@!@@@!!!!).

I mean sure, why would you want to keep the guy that drafted Hughes and Petey!!??   And keep what many people seem to think is a subpar coach that has never won anything at the NHL level.

 

Confused emoji's were warranted imo.

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Ok what do you get with a new GM? 

Does it make it easier to move some bad contracts? No. 

Basically it puts Vancouver behind another 3-6 months or so when the new GM evaluates the team, and it's coaching. 

 

Why do we want Gallant? Might want to ask why two different teams dumped him the first chance they got first?

Something is wrong with that picture. I'd have a talk with Florida and Vegas first and maybe not just the GM's but other organizational members. 

 

Im ok if Benning makes changes by letting go of Brown and Baumer first in the offseason.

Make the moves that he can.

 

If by the 1/4 mark of the next season the team is not playing better defensively and more consistently. Then fire Green. 

 

If the team misses the playoffs next season, then fire Benning. 

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

You don't just simply blow up a team that's built through drafting, FA and trades for regulars, and which has so many cheaper contracts. 
The group below could probably be the future lineup (deliberately left anchors e.g. Eriksson, Sutter, Ferland, Goldobin, Baertschi and guys I don't really see as part of the team's long term future e.g. Stecher (want upgrade for him) and Toffoli (possibly priced out))

Miller (trade acquisition, $5 m) - Pete (1st round pick, ELC) - Boeser (1st round pick, $5 m RFA)

Pearson (reclamation) - Bo (1st round pick, $5 m) - Jake (1st round pick, pending RFA)

Roussel (UFA signing) - Gaudette (draft pick, pending RFA) - MacEwen (free agent signing)

Motte (trade acquisition) - Beagle (UFA signing) -

Hughes (1st round pick, ELC) - Tanev (FA signing)
Edler (draft pick, $5 m) - 
                                      - Myers (FA signing)

 

Marky (trade acquisition) / Demko (draft pick)

If they play to their potential that's actually a solid group, believe it or not.  Just basically have 3 or 4 positions to hopefully upgrade (3rd/ 4th line RW, one of the RD which Stecher was and 3rd pair left D since Fantenberg hasn't worked with Myers).  Hope this also shows that, if some luxuries are trimmed away (e.g. having 3 top-6 right wings, one of which is a UFA) and if the 4 anchor deals are gone, this team has a solid group in place.  
 

Edited by Phil_314

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KEEP
Pettersson 21

Miller 26

Toffoli 27

Horvat 24

Boeser 23

Virtanen 23

Gaudette 23

Podkolzin 18 ..................….1 season away

Pearson 27

MacEwen 23

Lind 21

Motte 24

Hoglander 19...………….....2 season away

-----------

Hughes 20

Tryamkin 25

Myers 30

Joulevi 21

Rathbone

Rafferty 24

Brisebois 22

Woo 19...............................2 seasons away

------------

Markstrom 29

Demko 24

DiPietro 20

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Eriksson 34...…….Retires July 15,2020...…………………………………………...savings $6,000,000 next season

Sutter 31...……….Trade...…..with retention 50% $4,375,000 1 yr...……………...savings $2,187,500 next season                   

Beagle 34...………2 more years at $3,000,000 next year...…………..but out candidate at the end of next season                                                                                                          Roussel 30...……..Trade...….with retention 50% $3,000,000 2 yrs...…………….savings $1,500,000 next season                   

Ferland 27...……...Roster or LTIR                                                                                                                                                              

Leivo 26...………...UFA...…...Trade before draft

Baertschi...………..Terminate by mutual contract...…………………………………savings $2,291,666 next season

Edler 33...…………One more year at $6,000,000

Tanev 30...………..UFA...…...Trade before draft...………………………………….savings $4,450,000 next season

Stecher 25...……...RFA.........Trade after season...…………………………………savings $2,325,000 next season

Benn 32...………...Trade...…..with retention 50% $2,000,000 1 yr...……………..savings $1,000,000 next season

Fantenberg 28...….Let Walk...…………………………………………………….…..savings    $850,000 next season

Gravoac 26...……..Re-sign UFA...………….Utica

Bailey 24...………..Re-sign RFA...…………..Utica

 

                                                                                        Total Salary moved...…………..$ 21,103,500 next season

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

So, don't get too bent up about things too much............cap works regardless, and we can move players pretty easy, IMO

Regardless, if Eriksson retires or not (He will be a buyout candidate at the end of next year otherwise)

                                                                               

Maybe change the assistant coaches...............we are ahead of schedule, everybody!

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8 hours ago, Tre Mac said:

Honestly an organizational overhaul is the one and only positive if they choke and miss the playoffs, rather they kept Green and fired everyone else tbh but if they all have to go so be it, as long as Benning is the first to get the pink slip(here comes more confused emojis!@!@!@@@!!!!).

You know it.

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4 hours ago, the grinder said:

 

blow what up  a few support players that will be all phased out in 2 years  and be replaced with young players.. didn't you listen to gmjb   7 young players will be playing on the roster in the next 2 years  ,  sutter rousell beagle Eriksson baer edler benn will all be gone  , hmmm 7 vets   ,  besides that  what 7 young players are ready to take those roles right now ?     rafferty bailey lind  and joulevi ??   

I agree that losing Eriksson, Sutter, Baer, Beagle and Roussel is not exactly "blowing it up" it is simply moving on from older players as they age out (perhaps 1-2 years before their contracts were planned to end) but that is no big deal.

 

Even trading Boeser would not be overly surprising as long as the return is worthwhile. I would prefer we keep Boeser tho. And I personally would hold on to Beagle and Rous for now as they provide veteran experience for the bottom 6.

 

Sutter and Eriksson have been outplayed by Gaudette and MacEwen, and they should be moved on. My sense is that it will cost a lot more than everyone thinks in order to move these bloated contracts. I don't think LE or Baer will retire. I would like to be surprised, but I don't think they will.

 

RW is going to be an interesting position because if we resign Toffoli it will be quite crowded with BB, TT, and JV. I'm not sure we can afford to be paying for that amount of RW talent. Again though, Pearson's contract ends after next season and, if he walks, TT could switch to 2LW to leave our second line as Toffoli - Horvat - Virtanen. There are many permutations possible.

 

In terms of D, it is going to be interesting to see what happens with Edler and Tanev. Will Tanev be resigned for a few seasons to try and reduce the impact of losing both Edler and Tanev. Will JB resign Edler to a short term and lower value contract after his current contract expires? Or will JB look to move on? It will not be so easy to replace those two. Dumba is not the answer. Perhaps in 1-2 seasons there will be some consistent performers coming through from our prospects/reserves list. Otherwise JB will need to find a trade to bring in a #2 or #3 Dman that can log big minutes, play PK, stays healthy and preferably has some size to clear the crease.

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14 hours ago, Canuckster86 said:

Trade Brock and Stecher to Minny for Dumba.

Stecher's numbers are almost as good as Dumba's this year by himself.

 

Adding in Boeser to get Dumba would be absolutely an over payment by far.  :picard:

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Blowing it up would be trading BB, Horvat and Miller for picks and maybe a young talented RHD .... and expecting QH and EP to carry the torch.   It would be insanity.   Guess one could argue TO blew it up and the lucked out with AM so it's possible it could work - but almost certainly all it would mean is we waste a good thing and re-set the clock to four years ago...and miss the playoffs 9 out of a 10 year period.  Not going to happen.  For better or worse this is the core we have (and Miller is part of it for sure), we still have some great prospects that should give the team a boost - and most of the placeholders will get replaced internally (not all - will still need a few UFAs to fill the roster out) in the next one-three years (and that's assuming LE doesn't retire or get traded, otherwise 1-2 years).    What wouldn't surprise is in three years time Miller and Horvat get traded to move prospects behind Podz, Hogs, EP, Hughes and BB as a mini-re-tool - that's how good teams stay good longer.  

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Would like to add:  IF and When JB gets the boot - it's definitely a possibility that a rebuild will ensue again and only one or two key players will be kept.  It's what happens....

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11 hours ago, Kanukfanatic said:

I mean sure, why would you want to keep the guy that drafted Hughes and Petey!!??   And keep what many people seem to think is a subpar coach that has never won anything at the NHL level.

 

Confused emoji's were warranted imo.

I don't.  Again, Hughes fell onto his lap and if he didn't Benning would've been canned by now as this team would be @#$%^&.  Benning, like the over priced plugs he signed, was brought in to turn this organization around prospect wise and he did.  Now we need management to take this team to the next level, something I truly believe Benning is incapable of.  And no one outside of Canuck fans think Green is a sub par coach.  Confused emojis are for the weak, 'I disagree with this post so I must downvote!'

 

8 hours ago, Rounoush said:

You know it.

It is known.

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1 hour ago, Tre Mac said:

 

I don't.  Again, Hughes fell onto his lap and if he didn't Benning would've been canned by now as this team would be @#$%^&.  Benning, like the over priced plugs he signed, was brought in to turn this organization around prospect wise and he did.  Now we need management to take this team to the next level, something I truly believe Benning is incapable of.  And no one outside of Canuck fans think Green is a sub par coach.  Confused emojis are for the weak, 'I disagree with this post so I must downvote!'

 

It is known.

Excellent post @Tre Mac

JB and Green will be gone after this season.  And confused emojis are used as a downvote.  The user of the confused emoji isn’t at all confused by the post; they just don’t like it.  

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3 hours ago, Kanukfanatic said:

Stecher's numbers are almost as good as Dumba's this year by himself.

 

Adding in Boeser to get Dumba would be absolutely an over payment by far.  :picard:

We all love Stecher, but he has zero trade value.  

Yes, Bess is worth more than a flying elephant.  

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16 hours ago, NUCKER67 said:

They don't need to tear it down, but there are a few players that need to be moved. Who knows whatnext year will bring. Maybe Tryamkin comes back. Maybe Hoglander makes the team out of camp. Maybe Boeser and/or Stecher is traded. Maybe Goldobin comes to camp a different player. Maybe they get a no-nonsense coach who's won before. The way I see it, this team is young, and inexperienced. They need someone who's been there, done that, to show them the way. They've got the talent, now they need a road map to the Cup.

Yeah and maybe the corona virus goes away, Maybe the cap problems vanish. Maybe they win the cup. Maybe they fire everyone but JB, the players, the coaches, the scouts, the trainers, the assistants, because they all let JB down, they are all no good. Maybe the lleague has to start playing in front of empty arena's, OH CRAP SanJose has to!

14 hours ago, the grinder said:

 

blow what up  a few support players that will be all phased out in 2 years  and be replaced with young players.. didn't you listen to gmjb   7 young players will be playing on the roster in the next 2 years  ,  sutter rousell beagle Eriksson baer edler benn will all be gone  , hmmm 7 vets   ,  besides that  what 7 young players are ready to take those roles right now ?     rafferty bailey lind  and joulevi ??   

GMJB, so less than one new addition each year he is here. 15 players in 18 years? That there is not 7 young players right now is a damnation to developing or bad roster management. How did the "young" teams get so many under 25"s on their teams? 12 to 14?

13 hours ago, Chris12345 said:

What is meant by mess off the ice?

 

Bad contracts or cocaine?

How about 10 players needing re-signing with 18 mil or less? Not planned for! And now an excuse comes up, the corona virus and empty arena's, can't blame JB for that right? For not having enough money because the cap goes down, because his grand plan is to spend to the cap limit regardless. For this season he over spent and the *hit hasn't hit the fan yet.

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3 minutes ago, Lazurus said:

Yeah and maybe the corona virus goes away, Maybe the cap problems vanish. Maybe they win the cup. Maybe they fire everyone but JB, the players, the coaches, the scouts, the trainers, the assistants, because they all let JB down, they are all no good. Maybe the lleague has to start playing in front of empty arena's, OH CRAP SanJose has to!

GMJB, so less than one new addition each year he is here. 15 players in 18 years? That there is not 7 young players right now is a damnation to developing or bad roster management. How did the "young" teams get so many under 25"s on their teams? 12 to 14?

How about 10 players needing re-signing with 18 mil or less? Not planned for! And now an excuse comes up, the corona virus and empty arena's, can't blame JB for that right? For not having enough money because the cap goes down, because his grand plan is to spend to the cap limit regardless. For this season he over spent and the *hit hasn't hit the fan yet.

Let’s just look at our bad contracts:  Loui, Sutter, Rooster, Beagle, Baer, and (I think this one, because of the term, is bad too) Myers.

To keep our actually good younger players we have to dump these contracts.  That means using our prospects as sweetener.  To me that’s terrible management.  Linden left, because he didn’t like our direction (clearly this all comes from our owner wanting to win now) and now Bracket (who is the reason why we have good young players/prospects) is leaving too.  IMO JB is following the owners philosophical directions that we didn’t need to tear down rebuild (so the whole retool with older guys softening the depth of the fall) and that after drafting Hughes, the retool was over.  Now we are stuck with these older players, and to dump them we have give up our younger players.  It’s kind of insane where we are.  

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Posted (edited)

That's what drafting players is though, collecting assets, either for playing or used as trades. How many Canucks prospects will actually make the team? One out of every ten? I have my doubts players like Lockwood, Palmu, Jasek and Gadjovich, etc. will actually make the team in the future. So, what do they do with them? Maybe they could package a player and a prospect or two to get a good Dman.

 

The older guys (Eriksson, Beagle, Sutter and Roussel) still serve a purpose. They aren't that old and can still play. In fact, without them, I'd say the Canucks would be doing worse. Can't imagine a team filled with 22-23 year olds having a lot of success without the veteran players in support. I still think the issue is coaching. I wonder if Green even talks to the veterans, or if he just leaves them alone because he figures they should know better. He's a development coach. What great knowledge can he pass on to the veterans?  Probably not much.    

Edited by NUCKER67
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2 hours ago, Lazurus said:

Yeah and maybe the corona virus goes away, Maybe the cap problems vanish. Maybe they win the cup. Maybe they fire everyone but JB, the players, the coaches, the scouts, the trainers, the assistants, because they all let JB down, they are all no good. Maybe the lleague has to start playing in front of empty arena's, OH CRAP SanJose has to!

GMJB, so less than one new addition each year he is here. 15 players in 18 years? That there is not 7 young players right now is a damnation to developing or bad roster management. How did the "young" teams get so many under 25"s on their teams? 12 to 14?

How about 10 players needing re-signing with 18 mil or less? Not planned for! And now an excuse comes up, the corona virus and empty arena's, can't blame JB for that right? For not having enough money because the cap goes down, because his grand plan is to spend to the cap limit regardless. For this season he over spent and the *hit hasn't hit the fan yet.

lol I like how you spin every thing  or is it just dis regard everything and make things up ,  I said in the next 2 years 7 young players will be playing so that is 3 or 4 players each year  , not 1 , even this year hughes guadette  big zack have played games this year  so that is 3 players ,   lol at your bad drafting , so your expecting a gm to hit on 4 nhl players a draft and have them in a lineup with no development time, 3 calder finalist and we are bad at drafting ,lol , every year  young players have been added to the roster  and being developed, and developing takes times ,  look at the hughes brothers , quinn plays a extra year of college and get a few games at the end of the canuck seasons , jack is thrown on NJ roster , quinn has been developed better than jack has, , 

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4 hours ago, Tre Mac said:

 

I don't.  Again, Hughes fell onto his lap and if he didn't Benning would've been canned by now as this team would be @#$%^&.  Benning, like the over priced plugs he signed, was brought in to turn this organization around prospect wise and he did.  Now we need management to take this team to the next level, something I truly believe Benning is incapable of.  And no one outside of Canuck fans think Green is a sub par coach.  Confused emojis are for the weak, 'I disagree with this post so I must downvote!'

 

It is known.

  or perhaps other 6 teams were too stupid ( hello mtl)not to pick hughes  before he " fell on bennings lap"  ,

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