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wallstreetamigo

Fixing Team Defensive Structure - What does Green need to do?

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The Canucks seem to apply good pressure on the forecheck in the offensive zone, but in the defensive zone they don't check nearly as hard.

 

Maybe if the Canucks could pressure the puck more in the defensive zone, the opposition wouldn't have as much time or space. 

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Did Quinn Hughes change the way this team plays D? Or is it the pairings? They don't seem to defend as well as they used to, don't seem to be blocking as many shots either. Heck, Tanev has been healthy all year!  The D is taking more chances this year, jumping up in the play to create offence. I'm hoping next year, Tryamiin signs and becomes a pain in the a** to play against in our zone.

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2 hours ago, Alflives said:

Why don’t we keep Bess, and sign Tofu?  Bring back Tryamkin to take Tanev’s place.  And have Rafferty take Stecher’s place.  Plus IMO Rathbone is better than what we have, other than Hughes.  Bring in the Bone Man, and get him going early.  Then by mid season he’s playing like vet.  No more of these old guys, who are too often injured, are slow, and are soft.  

Still, The team deserves better coaching.  Green is just a softy.  

Bro did Green eat your cat?  Sshhh8888888ttt

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Defensive structure, it is simple.

Use defense men as defense men and not forwards.

Slow down the rushes, limit the pinches, play defense in the defense zone.

 

Tryamkin is now available, his season is done today.

  • Hydration 1

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, EastVanCanuck said:

Bro did Green eat your cat?  Sshhh8888888ttt

No...but he drank his scotch...:lol:

Edited by Attila Umbrus

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5 hours ago, 250Integra said:

Getting rid of Baumgartner

there it is.. can't believe they extended him

 

mic drop, next topic

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Ray Ferraro doesn't believe it's a coaching issue (March 9th)

 

Alex Auld breaks it down a little more in depth on the Canucks Pod (March 9th) as well.  

 

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6 hours ago, Battlemonger said:

The Canucks seem to apply good pressure on the forecheck in the offensive zone, but in the defensive zone they don't check nearly as hard.

 

Maybe if the Canucks could pressure the puck more in the defensive zone, the opposition wouldn't have as much time or space. 

The 2nd Columbus goal happens because Myers is aggressive on the puck carrier which leaves Roussel having to choose btw 2 players in the slot area and bang, goal.   

 

They key to the Canucks being better in the D zone is execution- when the wingers get the puck along the boards they have to get it out/not flub on their outlets.  When that doesnt happen they obviously spend more time in their zone which exhausts them.  As an already somewhat slow team, its a dagger.

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So many people on here are going to be flabbergasted when we get a new coach and we still bleed goals against.

 

This 'defense' Benning built simply isn't that good. Myers is a third pairing defender ideally, Edler and Tanev have slowed down a lot and Stecher and Fantenberg should not be in the NHL. Green's hand has been forced recently to play a offensive defenseman 27 minutes in a game because we have no better options.

 

That back end needs to be torn down and reconstructed.

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8 hours ago, Alflives said:

Why don’t we keep Bess, and sign Tofu?  Bring back Tryamkin to take Tanev’s place.  And have Rafferty take Stecher’s place.  Plus IMO Rathbone is better than what we have, other than Hughes.  Bring in the Bone Man, and get him going early.  Then by mid season he’s playing like vet.  No more of these old guys, who are too often injured, are slow, and are soft.  

Still, The team deserves better coaching.  Green is just a softy.  

There is no way Tryamkin is a #2 D man...I see Tryamkin is more of a #5 Dman and can move up to #4 spot with injuries...

We have to replace the very valuable Edler in next 2 years...Tanev has to be replaced and Vancouver will be in trouble without a solid # 2 D man..

We have to be realistic Tanev is 30 has injury issues and will want 4 years x 5 million...

We sign Tafolli 4 yrs x 5 million solid 30-35 goal scorer and has solid 200 foot game..

We have to dump some salary... We have 3 young wingers coming along, Podkoizin, 19, 6'1 ,200 lbs power forward top 6 guy.

Hoglander, 19,  5'10, speedy, agitator top 6 guy, Lind 21, 6'1 see as 3rd line winger...

We make the very very important trade for #2 D man...

Boser ------Severson, 6'2, 25 yrs old very good #2 D man 

 

Markstrom to sign- 5.8  million X 4 yrs - 8 team trade clause

Jake - 4 yrs x 3.5 million - 22 - 25 goal guy... might demand more money or short term..

Gaudette  2years X 2.2 million show me more deal..

Lievo  2 years x 1.9 show me more -- play in top 9 solid aggressive big body 17--21 goal guy..

Motte -- 2 yrs x 1.1 million

Fantenberg - 2 yrs x 1.4 solid #5 guy, great surprise, solid play

MacEwen 23, 6'4 NHL ready very gritty, speed and will drop gloves -- 2 yr show me more deal - 1 way deal --- 2 yrs X 1 million per..

 

Only so much money so have to move Boser for the very valuable D man this summer..

 

Stetcher - trade 3rd rounder --- Rafferty will replace....

Tanev - trade ay draft day  for 3rd rounder

Demko 24,  could be a good trade bait? Have to decide who they will go with Markstrom or Demko before expansion May 2021..

Will get 1st rounder and prospect in return..

Trade Sutter 31 or Beagle. 32 ....

 

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The thing I notice is the system is more of a zone coverage system that focuses on blocking shooting and passing lanes not so much skating lanes. The exception is when a player shadows an attacker who is wheeling around.

 

Because it's a zone system and protecting the slot is the most important we will see players slip in to the net front unnoticed for the unforced point shot deflection or quick shot after receiving a pass from the perimeter.

 

I've often seen two Canucks defending against no one and a player slips in to score a goal this way.

 

IMO the system needs to force perimeter shots not wait and block, keep an eye on passing lanes and clog skating lanes.

 

Winning races to loose pucks is also something that often isn't attempted, they will just let the other team have it and and sit back again unless it's behind the net. If the other team wins the race they need to do better to tie the player up to either win the battle or draw the opponents out of position.

 

There are also too many times when the play is moving out and a Canucks carrier is at the half wall and being forced to make a play they caught it up trying to go forward as opposed to using the dman in support usually 10 feet behind them.

 

A lot of people see the dmen as the problem, and yeah it can be better but it's the way the forward group is being asked to play defense.

 

Too many low percentage passing plays exiting the zone, too many forgotten checks, too many unforced shots or passes being allowed

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10 minutes ago, Wanless said:

The thing I notice is the system is more of a zone coverage system that focuses on blocking shooting and passing lanes not so much skating lanes. The exception is when a player shadows an attacker who is wheeling around.

 

Because it's a zone system and protecting the slot is the most important we will see players slip in to the net front unnoticed for the unforced point shot deflection or quick shot after receiving a pass from the perimeter.

 

I've often seen two Canucks defending against no one and a player slips in to score a goal this way.

 

IMO the system needs to force perimeter shots not wait and block, keep an eye on passing lanes and clog skating lanes.

 

Winning races to loose pucks is also something that often isn't attempted, they will just let the other team have it and and sit back again unless it's behind the net. If the other team wins the race they need to do better to tie the player up to either win the battle or draw the opponents out of position.

 

There are also too many times when the play is moving out and a Canucks carrier is at the half wall and being forced to make a play they caught it up trying to go forward as opposed to using the dman in support usually 10 feet behind them.

 

A lot of people see the dmen as the problem, and yeah it can be better but it's the way the forward group is being asked to play defense.

 

Too many low percentage passing plays exiting the zone, too many forgotten checks, too many unforced shots or passes being allowed

This is an excellent take on things. I see many of these same issues as well. Last nights game had several examples of how just letting the other team get the puck back in your zone can lead to high quality chances against for sure.

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16 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

This is an excellent take on things. I see many of these same issues as well. Last nights game had several examples of how just letting the other team get the puck back in your zone can lead to high quality chances against for sure.

Thanks

 

The first goal was just this. Unforced point shot with a screen

 

And I believe there was 2 more times that hit the post

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23 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Like I said, its not about firing Green. Some teams get a bump replacing a coach but not usually this close to the end of the season and its usually a situation where the team is underperforming expectations. I think the Canucks have actually exceeded expectations this year for the most part. 

 

 

The Canucks added Hughes, Miller, Toffoli, Myers, Ferland, Benn, Fantenberg this offseason...plus less defensemen injured...why would you think they wouldnt improve? The team improved a lot due to player upgrades and any coach would get higher points with this team compared to last years team. 

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1 minute ago, DefCon1 said:

The Canucks added Hughes, Miller, Toffoli, Myers, Ferland, Benn, Fantenberg this offseason...plus less defensemen injured...why would you think they wouldnt improve? The team improved a lot due to player upgrades and any coach would get higher points with this team compared to last years team. 

Green needs to change his systems, but it’s too late for that; not enough practice time.

next season I see Edler, Hughes, Myers, Rafferty, Rathbone, Tryamkin, and Benn.  Green, or whoever is coach, will need improved systems that better support the D. 

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11 minutes ago, DefCon1 said:

The Canucks added Hughes, Miller, Toffoli, Myers, Ferland, Benn, Fantenberg this offseason...plus less defensemen injured...why would you think they wouldnt improve? The team improved a lot due to player upgrades and any coach would get higher points with this team compared to last years team. 

I did think they would improve. But based on expectations even with those additions, I feel that they are ahead of where most thought they would be. 

 

Firing a coach in the offseason and firing a coach with 10-15 games left in a season are two very different things. 

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15 hours ago, SILLY GOOSE said:

 

The 2nd Columbus goal happens because Myers is aggressive on the puck carrier which leaves Roussel having to choose btw 2 players in the slot area and bang, goal.   

 

They key to the Canucks being better in the D zone is execution- when the wingers get the puck along the boards they have to get it out/not flub on their outlets.  When that doesnt happen they obviously spend more time in their zone which exhausts them.  As an already somewhat slow team, its a dagger.

Myers just isnt good in defense. I think we paid too much for him, since he is a 3rd pairing D at best

  • Hydration 1

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Is it possible that there isn’t one huge problem but a series of small ones?  
1 - Could a different coach bring out a better result and an improved system?

    Yes, I have never believed Green was the coach to bring the cup home. That said I also don’t think he gets the boot if we get to the playoffs this year. As a side note - NO BABCOCK!  He doesn’t have a good history with young players, a monkey could have coached his Detroit teams to victory (same with team Canada) 

2 - Do we have the right personnel?

     Short answer - not yet 

     Longer answer - Edler has been a solid number 2 dman for years (played as a #1 for most of them) but he is aging. Tanev is much the same in a more defensive role with a ton of injuries. Tryamkin while intriguing brings more questions than definite solutions. I would love to see changes but it won’t be easy...cap crunch, too many anchors (LE, Luongo) and inflated contracts for vets (Sutter, Baer, Beagle) make it harder. I’d like to see Tanev, Benn, and Stecher out next year to be replaced with Tryamkin, (insert best of our AHL options here and somehow (you are correct that I have no idea how to accomplish this) get a UFA/trade/magic legit top pairing defensive d man to play with Hughes. Please note I’m at work and not paying attention to handedness or sides right now

Hughes/new guy

Edler/Myers (hate Myers of you want but he isn’t going anywhere)

Tryamkin/youth callup

3 - is it all the defence’s fault?

     No! Systems and defence men play a huge roll but so do forwards. Everyone needs to be accountable for some of the collapses we have seen. For a team with so much salary tied up in “defensively responsible” forwards, a great face off record etc we should be better than we look right now. 
 

Sorry for the wall of text, if you are still reading I look forward to the constructive criticism coming my way. Also for the love of Jebus please NO BABCOCK!

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