The difference between the Canucks and Stanley Cup winners

[Alflives]

3 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

most of the cup winners have a norris caliber defenseman that can play on both side of the ice.. physical yet capable of quartering a powerplay and score.. even though we have Hughes right now.. he's not exactly a doughty keith chara carlsson letang burns type of defenseman.. i'm not sure if he'll be able to withstand the physicality of the playoff when he gets there where the phsyical play will ramp up. Hughes will always be great offensively but he'll never be the 30mins a night guy in the playoff like those mentioned.. like those guys are actually intimidating at times to play against.

Burns won a cup?  Coffee, Leech, Neidermyer, and Lidstrom weren’t intimidating or tough to play against, yet they won lots of cups.  Hughes is clearly in their category of franchise D men who lead their teams to Cups.  

[Kevin Biestra]

18 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Coffee, Leech, Neidermyer, and Lidstrom weren’t intimidating or tough to play against, yet they won lots of cups.  Hughes is clearly in their category of franchise D men who lead their teams to Cups.  

Heh, legit one out of four on spelling.

 

But yeah, those four are great examples of franchise D men taking their teams to Cups on skill.

 

Not to mention Bobby Orr, Larry Murphy, Sergei Zubov...

[Screw]

On 3/17/2020 at 6:49 AM, IBatch said:

WD and TG would both have long careers if they lucked out coaching that team.  Not saying AV wasn't good - he was - but let's be honest here he had the best team we've ever had with the best goalie we've ever had to work with.   Quin was a better coach IMO - he'd be awesome in today's game where both tactics and a players coach matters the most.  

Remember the state of the team when he started ?
 

Edit: 2006-2007 team roster may cause trauma and nightmares 

Edited March 20, 2020 by Screw

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, Screw said:

Remember the state of the team when he started ?
 

Edit: 2006-2007 team roster may cause trauma and nightmares 

Not really sure what your point is.   The state of the team was we still had WCE elements and the start of the Sedin team who were part of both.  The Luongo trade sealed the deal - I saw it right away and said to my friends we just became a contender.  Didn't take long for that to happen - a playoff miss a year after wasn't a big deal - you could see it coming and I wasn't one bit surprised we ended up a top team for a couple of years.   Without Luongo it was never going to happen.   With a so / so goalie it would have just been the WCE era 2.0.  Again AV was a good coach- but give WD or  TG the same team and they would have still been good.  AV hasn't had to coach a bottom team yet - TG and WD have.  

 

Funny how the "better coaches" are almost always the ones behind the bench on good teams.  And the ones that fade away quickly are the ones who get crappy assignments with bottom teams.   The "Great" I AM BABCOCK in the third person couldn't make it work outside of a good ANA team and a still great Detroit team (and did he ever bail fast when the end was near! Couldn't hurt his reputation right?"  and lost 2/3 finals but still got his huge pay day - and the "Coach of the Decade "  did a sub-par job with a supposed start of the year contender in Florida.   They had all the pieces yet completely sh!t the bed - maybe should have gone with with better mustache in WD right?  

 

Bad teams break careers - good ones make them.  

[IBatch]

10 hours ago, Kevin Biestra said:

Heh, legit one out of four on spelling.

 

But yeah, those four are great examples of franchise D men taking their teams to Cups on skill.

 

Not to mention Bobby Orr, Larry Murphy, Sergei Zubov...

Dallas wouldn't have won a cup without Zubov.  Glad he's finally in the HHOF - much deserved.   

 

Al Maccccinnesss too.   MVP CAL cup ... without him they don't win either ha ha.

[IBatch]

On 3/18/2020 at 1:49 PM, ruilin96 said:

Henrik had 12 points in 5 games during a Conference Final series against the Sharks. This is nothing short of a beast like moment. But I do get what you mean. I am also really curious at how Petey and Hughes will adapt if they eventually found their way into the playoffs. I have a feeling if we want to win the cup, it will likely be Bo, Miller and Marky leading the way. Other players like Toffoli, Pearson and in the future Podkolzin would be a major part of it as well.

Hard to tell at this point.  One thing both EP and Hughes have in spades is a competitive spirit - and thing both could amp up their performance when it matters the most.  EP will become a much more complete player once he adds ten or fifteen pounds of man muscle to his frame - Hughes will never be a physical guy like say Pronger - but he's no slouch when it comes to heart and try so wouldn't count him out before it even happens.   Can't wait to see what Podz can do - he's a pit bull when it comes to getting the puck back and that if it translates completely at the NHL level our top line is going to be furious - like adding a Forsberg lite or Claude Lemuiex...people won't be happy paying us for sure....2022-2208 our team looks to have what it needs to be back on top in our division...and a team built come playoff time. 

[lmm]

On 3/20/2020 at 3:48 PM, IBatch said:

Not really sure what your point is.   The state of the team was we still had WCE elements and the start of the Sedin team who were part of both.  The Luongo trade sealed the deal - I saw it right away and said to my friends we just became a contender.  Didn't take long for that to happen - a playoff miss a year after wasn't a big deal - you could see it coming and I wasn't one bit surprised we ended up a top team for a couple of years.   Without Luongo it was never going to happen.   With a so / so goalie it would have just been the WCE era 2.0.  Again AV was a good coach- but give WD or  TG the same team and they would have still been good.  AV hasn't had to coach a bottom team yet - TG and WD have.  

 

Funny how the "better coaches" are almost always the ones behind the bench on good teams.  And the ones that fade away quickly are the ones who get crappy assignments with bottom teams.   The "Great" I AM BABCOCK in the third person couldn't make it work outside of a good ANA team and a still great Detroit team (and did he ever bail fast when the end was near! Couldn't hurt his reputation right?"  and lost 2/3 finals but still got his huge pay day - and the "Coach of the Decade "  did a sub-par job with a supposed start of the year contender in Florida.   They had all the pieces yet completely sh!t the bed - maybe should have gone with with better mustache in WD right?  

 

Bad teams break careers - good ones make them.  

I don't agree 

your argument is a bit like Roger Neilson's argument that PK should be derived by minutes of kill over total penalties killed

the only problem is at the end of the day they end out equal.

Good coaches survive, whether they have to go back to the AHL/ECHL/college/Europe or Junior the good coaches will make it back to the league of their choice.

While bad coaches fade.

 

that is what makes these conversations interesting

those that think Travis is a bad coach think (rightly or wrongly) that they see something missing in his game

those that support Travis also see something that (rightly or wrongly) that will translate into future success

Some rant, some use logic and argument, some use caustic wit and others troll hard, but we are all trying to justify our beliefs or gut feelings

[Ballisticsports.]

The difference between the Canucks and Stanley Cup winners

When we make the playoffs we fall one game short of 16 wins 

[CaptKirk888]

21 minutes ago, ba;;isticsports said:

The difference between the Canucks and Stanley Cup winners

When we make the playoffs we fall one game short of 16 wins 

We fell 4 games short in 82. But the Islanders were a powerhouse.

[steviewonder20]

On 3/15/2020 at 2:53 PM, Alflives said:

Difference is we’ve never had a true number one D man.  Now we have Hughes.  We will win three cups this decade, if we get a proper coach.  

We thought the problem was Vigneaut, then we thought it was Torts, then we thought it was Willie, now we think it is Green. Do they all stink is there a bigger problem? Who would you choose, Alfie?

[IBatch]

On 3/17/2020 at 10:17 AM, DownUndaCanuck said:

We've never had strong, physical forwards in our top 6.

We've never had depth and 10-goal scorers on our 4th line.

We've never had a true top defenceman.

 

We have had an elite goalie in Luongo.

We've had two elite forwards in the Sedins.

We've had a top defensive 2nd line center in Kesler.

 

Ironically, the things we lacked in 2011, we have now. We've finally got offensive depth, which is always key in long playoff series because your 3rd and 4th liners are the ones who score goals when the top lines are checked to death. We've got a top defenceman in Hughes (debatable, he's not a top defensive defenceman but offensively, absolutely), and we've got some real strong top-6 forwards (Bo, Pearson, Toffoli, Miller).

 

I think JB has created this club perfectly, and if they get into the playoffs they'll really do some damage in long matchups.

If you think we are even close to that team (2011) you need to take the current homer glasses off.   We aren't there yet.  We had amazing depth back then - a 40 plus point defenseman as our 7th in Ballard.   A great bottom six and players in the wings (remember Maholtra was out).  Luongo >>>> then Markstrom.  His worst seasons were like one and a half year or Markstroms best.   Two of the best players in the league at the time at the peak of their powers.  One of the best second line centers for five or six years at the peak of his powers also >>> then Horvat.    Maybe Miller is better then Burrows that's about it.

 

What we have now is just a whole bunch of potential.  QH is great - but we haven't seen him play one playoff game yet - they are a lot different...I think he will do fine but we really don't know yet.   

[IBatch]

On 3/17/2020 at 12:01 PM, EdgarM said:

Oh there was a big difference in the QUALITY of Shots in both of those years. We were getting quality chance after quality chance in 94 and the 2011 chances were a lot of perimeter shots. No one wanted to pay the price and get those garbage goals in front of the net.

We had some great character guys in 94 but our only true superstar was Bure and he was kept out of most games(literally) from bogus penalties called against him.

The Rangers, on the other hand, were hand picked superstars such as Zubov, Messier, Richter, Leetch Graves, Kovalev and they had team depth. The best line up money could buy , at that time, before the Cap era.

I was totally proud of what the 94 team was able to accomplish. They over came all that was thrown at them and came a goal post  away from winning it all. The 2011 team I expected them to win and they failed, totally different feeling for both series.

This exactly.   I agree with every word. 

[IBatch]

On 3/22/2020 at 3:50 AM, lmm said:

I don't agree 

your argument is a bit like Roger Neilson's argument that PK should be derived by minutes of kill over total penalties killed

the only problem is at the end of the day they end out equal.

Good coaches survive, whether they have to go back to the AHL/ECHL/college/Europe or Junior the good coaches will make it back to the league of their choice.

While bad coaches fade.

 

that is what makes these conversations interesting

those that think Travis is a bad coach think (rightly or wrongly) that they see something missing in his game

those that support Travis also see something that (rightly or wrongly) that will translate into future success

Some rant, some use logic and argument, some use caustic wit and others troll hard, but we are all trying to justify our beliefs or gut feelings

So you don't think a coach coming into a good situation (a good team) doesn't help his career?   It's happened before - a lot.   And funny thing is when they eventually lose favour and play on bad teams they often lose favour - happened to Crow for example - and he was/is a decent coach.    Coaches that win cups get longevity and linger longer ... and yes all of them are good coaches how else can they get that far?  Will be interesting to see what's happens to Berube as a result.  I stand by what I said - good coaches have had the good luck to coach good teams - and the ones that make it to the NHL are all good coaches - well a few are patsies deliberately thrown into the deep end on rebuilding teams.  The Yeo experimentation is over.  Is that Green?  Hard to tell yet - but most experts had him near the top in the running for coach of the year at the 3/4 mark before we crumbled - we likely will have to face another year with him next year as a result of all of this virus stuff.  

 

Having watched hockey this long / and watched guys like Keenan win with good teams and lose with good teams - and dismantle good teams and then lose with bad teams too - and other guys like Bowman and Arbour pad their stats with some of the best all-time - and watching Quin win with and lose with good teams - I'm pretty sure the quality of the team matters a hell of a lot more then the quality of the coaches.   Yes a great coach will get more - then an ok one - Quenville the coach of the decade seriously underachieving this year maybe next year will get it back and then some.  Or maybe not.   Who would you suggest we go with? Gallant? Vegas is doing a lot better without him...be careful for what you wish for...

Edited March 24, 2020 by IBatch

[wai_lai416]

On 3/20/2020 at 5:03 AM, Alflives said:

Burns won a cup?  Coffee, Leech, Neidermyer, and Lidstrom weren’t intimidating or tough to play against, yet they won lots of cups.  Hughes is clearly in their category of franchise D men who lead their teams to Cups.  

Sure but every single one of the dman u listed are all 2-3 inch taller and 20+ pounds heavier. When it comes to the playoff you want some size as a defenseman when the game is going to be heavy crashing the net and u want to be able to move players some what. Not sure if hughes would be able to that. I mean all the players you listed may not be as skilled as hughes... but they are all way more all round than Hughes and plays in all situation 

[Hairy Kneel]

Can we stream the 81-82 playoffs?

On this site?

[alt kilgore]

1 hour ago, Hairy Kneel said:

Can we stream the 81-82 playoffs?

On this site?

I'd love that.  The only series when we made it to the Final that I've not seen, other than highlights. 

Although I do remember my dearly departed, and hockey fan, father buying tickets for all of us for one game of that series.  Up from the Okanagan on spring break probably because he was a teacher. (yeah a school teacher back then could afford to take their whole family to an NHL hockey playoff game.)  I remember my little sister reading a book through the whole thing.

[Kevin Biestra]

12 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

Sure but every single one of the dman u listed are all 2-3 inch taller and 20+ pounds heavier. When it comes to the playoff you want some size as a defenseman when the game is going to be heavy crashing the net and u want to be able to move players some what. Not sure if hughes would be able to that. I mean all the players you listed may not be as skilled as hughes... but they are all way more all round than Hughes and plays in all situation 

 

You can rest assured that Paul Coffey was as skilled as Quinn Hughes.