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smithers joe

[Discussion] build the the best line up for next year.

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6 minutes ago, KKnight said:

Ferland? And I think MacEwen has guaranteed himself a spot on the roster next season. Its going to be an extremely difficult off-season. I don't see how we can sign everyone if compliance buyouts aren't introduced.

Ferk I think goes LTIR squishy coconut. 

Zac Mac slides into Sutters spot asap.

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On 3/17/2020 at 10:42 AM, smithers joe said:

this would be mine.               

 

miller...5,250,000

boeser...5, 850,000

horvat...5,5000,000

pearson...3,750,000

toffoli...5, 250,000

petey...7,000,000

roussel...3,000,000

gaudette...2,000,000

virtanen...2.500,000

motte...1.500,000

beagle...3,000,000

macewen...1,250,000

lind...1,000,000  

                              52,850,000

edler...6,000,000

myers...6,000,000

hughes...7,000,000

tryamkin...3,000,000

benn,,,,2,000,000

fantenberg...1,000,000

rafferty...1,000,000

                                  26,000,000

markstrom...6,000,000

demko...2,000,000     

                                    8,000,000

 

 that is 86,850,000 but has rases for petey and quinn for the following year.  

Love this line up and agree completely but how are you planning on shedding LE, sutter and baertschi? Bury LE in Utica and hope he doesn’t show up? Please let there be some compliance buyouts if the cap stays flat...

wouldn’t mind seeing juolevi there instead of Benn as well but he could do with another full season in Utica 

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benning will work something out. if not, bye, bye tool or tanev and maybe both. i think burke said, if the season doesn’t resume, the cap for next year may sink much lower than 81.5. players would have to take pay cuts. lots to come.

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1. Deal Sutter for a 2nd

2. Buyout both Eriksson and Roussel

3. Trade for Dumba; something like Stecher, Demko, and the rights to Tryamkin, or Lockwood

4. OJ makes the team once and for all :)

 

Miller  Petersson  Toffoli

Pearson  Horvat  Boeser

Hoglander  Gaudette  Virtanen

Motte  Beagle  MacEwen

 

Hughes  Dumba

Edler  Tanev

OJ  Myers

Marstrom and Domingue

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On ‎5‎/‎6‎/‎2020 at 8:30 AM, captaincowbasher said:

1. Deal Sutter for a 2nd

2. Buyout both Eriksson and Roussel

3. Trade for Dumba; something like Stecher, Demko, and the rights to Tryamkin, or Lockwood

4. OJ makes the team once and for all :)

 

Miller  Petersson  Toffoli

Pearson  Horvat  Boeser

Hoglander  Gaudette  Virtanen

Motte  Beagle  MacEwen

 

Hughes  Dumba

Edler  Tanev

OJ  Myers

Marstrom and Domingue

I like your lineup but I don't think the trades are very realistic...

 

Sutter for a 2nd? Don't think so. Which team do you think would pay that? And is that team on Sutter's 15-team "no trade" list?

 

Buyout Eriksson + Roussel - yep not bad options to clear cap space and bring in younger guys like Mac and Hogs.

 

Get a 1RD in Dumba by trading a 3RD (Stecher), a backup goalie + a possible returning 3LD (Tryamkin)? Nah I don't think Minny go for that. It has been widely reported that they would only trade Dumba for a 1C, they ain't going to trade him for spare parts.

 

OJ makes the team - great, I hope so!

 

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I wonder if anyone has considered that Miller might not be hugely happy with the trade that brought him here?

 

He signed a team friendly discount contract, but 5.5 mil in Florida is 5.5 mil but up here he took a pay cut.

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Posted (edited)

One trade at a time with the concept of becoming a power house in a few years not immediately,

 

Like many GM's now talking in the league they are assuming a flat cap, no increase but no reduction either.

 

So My first deal both hurts but helps in the long run.

 

Gaudette, Stecher, a 2nd or 3rd rnd pick and Boeser to Minnesota for 2 first round picks, 2020 and 2021, Greenway and Dumba

 

At first this looks like a big loss for the Canucks and it is a hit for sure but.

 

For Minnesota they get a potential second line center, a Minnesota born star, 3 younger NHL players and Dumba has been on the block for awhile so they lose him but get back another dman that can help fill in, they still have Brodin.

 

Vancouver loses Boeser but his production has both Holander and Poldozin as potential replacements in the future, Greenway does get points and Jake has been advancing each year. Losing Gaudette may actually hurt more but for the next few years the 3rd/4th line center positions could be platooned, Sutter is signed for another year and there will be other FA's available to fill in.

 

Boeser got 16 G and 29 A last year, Greenway got 8 G and 20 A playing 4 min a game less with limited PP time, mostly 5 on 5. So yes a loss but those number can be made up via committee. Greenway gives the team a bit of a deterrent to give the young guys some extra room.

Dumba in for Stecher would be considered an upgrade and with Tryamkin replacing Tanev the team is ahead. Also for the cap hits.

 

Don't bother with Toffoli, the team cannot afford him ditto with Markstrom and Tanev.and there is Lind and Holander that will need spots.

Demko will need to be a starter soon and with Dumba and Tryamkin added the defence is stronger

 

Miller 27 yrs (5.25 mil) - Pettersson 22 yrs (3.775 mil) - Greenway 24 yrs (1.2 mil)

Virtanen 24 yrs (2 mil) - Horvat 26 yrs (5.5 mil)- Pearson 28 yrs (3.75 mil)

Roussel 31 yrs (3 mil) - Sutter 32 yrs (4.375 mil) - Beagle 35 yrs (3 mil)

Motte 26 yrs (1 mil) - MacEwen 24 yrs (.975 mil) - Eriksson 35 yrs (6 mil)

 

Edler 35 yrs (6 mil) - Myers 31 yrs (6 mil)

Dumba (6  mil) - Hughes 21 yrs (1.6 mil)

Fantenberg 29 yrs (1 mil) - Tryamkin 26 yrs (2.5 mil)

Rathbone 21 yrs (.95 mil) - Rafferty 25 yrs (.7 mil)

Benn 33 yrs (2 mil) - Woo 20 yrs (.82 mil)

 

Demko 25 yrs (1 mil)

DiPietro 21 yrs (.8 mil)

 

This equals under 70 million, gives protection to core players for the expansion, leaves room for Lind, Holander or whoever as depth, And Ferland to go to LTIR if necessary for cap purposes later.

Some adjustments can be made, like a different back up for a mil extra

 

It does mean letting the FA's go but the team will have way more money to deal in the expansion draft, get more players closer in age 19 to 25, give valuable experience for young players or at least enough cap room to bring some up for a cup of coffee.

 

11 million to be used for Hughes and Pettersson's next deals or to buy more draft picks.

 

Bluntly it gives the team WAAAAAY more ability to make GOOD hockey trades, the new NHL relies on high end draft picks to make the cap and be more than a one hit wonder.

 

To do this deal there could even be some money retained

 

In two more drafts this team will be contenders and keeping pace with LA,Anaheim, Edmonton and Colorado

 

Predictions for FA's - Markstrom ends up in California, San Jose might make the biggest push, Toffoli resigns with LA and they make him an assistant C, Tanev gets a long term offer from Montreal or Toronto, maybe Buffalo, all those teams need experienced shut down defencemen and have oodles of cap room, even TO using LTIR, Leivo signs a two way deal with ?, the Canucks?

 

The team sucks it up with Erikssons cap hit until maybe the TDL and then talks retention for a pick. His contract is getting to the point where it makes getting him an advantage for the cap. Defensively he is not so bad either, overpaid but that isn't his fault.

Edited by Lazurus

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If we get one or two compliance buyouts and maybe shed some contracts

 

Miller-Petey-Toffoli

Pearson-Horvat-Boeser

Ferland-Gaudette-Virtanen

Motte-Beagle-Mac

Roussel

Maybe Sutter/Leivo

 

Under the assumption that Eriksson is gone, Ferland is healthy and we don't sign Leivo or get rid of Sutter. Might want to keep Sutter around for center depth over Leivo. With Ferland/Mac/Motte we have good grit in the bottom 6, which is needed. This would be the year to start giving Gaudette/Virtanen more responsibility since Sutter/Beagle won't be here forever.

 

Edler-Myers

Hughes-Tanev

UFA(Dillon/Edmundson)-Tryamkin

Rafferty

Maybe Brisebois

 

Benn would be traded and Fanta not re-signed. If we are gonna have 2 young extra D than the top 6 partner with Tryamkin has to be a good one that's where a Dillon or Edmundson would fit in. Having a good top 6 pairing would have a trickle up effect making our D-core much better and would be a safety net since a Dillon/Edmunson can step up and play more if a top 4 guy gets hurt. This would be the year to see if Tryamkin/Rafferty/Brisebois can make it or not.

 

 

Overall with a deeper D-core, more experienced team and more physical bottom 6 I think we see us take another step next year with this roster.

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4 hours ago, Junkyard Dog said:

If we get one or two compliance buyouts and maybe shed some contracts

 

Miller-Petey-Toffoli

Pearson-Horvat-Boeser

Ferland-Gaudette-Virtanen

Motte-Beagle-Mac

Roussel

Maybe Sutter/Leivo

 

Under the assumption that Eriksson is gone, Ferland is healthy and we don't sign Leivo or get rid of Sutter. Might want to keep Sutter around for center depth over Leivo. With Ferland/Mac/Motte we have good grit in the bottom 6, which is needed. This would be the year to start giving Gaudette/Virtanen more responsibility since Sutter/Beagle won't be here forever.

 

Edler-Myers

Hughes-Tanev

UFA(Dillon/Edmundson)-Tryamkin

Rafferty

Maybe Brisebois

 

Benn would be traded and Fanta not re-signed. If we are gonna have 2 young extra D than the top 6 partner with Tryamkin has to be a good one that's where a Dillon or Edmundson would fit in. Having a good top 6 pairing would have a trickle up effect making our D-core much better and would be a safety net since a Dillon/Edmunson can step up and play more if a top 4 guy gets hurt. This would be the year to see if Tryamkin/Rafferty/Brisebois can make it or not.

 

 

Overall with a deeper D-core, more experienced team and more physical bottom 6 I think we see us take another step next year with this roster.

With all that, how? Which teams? What about the cap or the following season's cap? Compliance buy outs are not going to happen because they add to the escrow and that is going to be a big hit already without adding another 5 to 10% salary reduction for all players just so a few can reap the benefits.

 

Some good ideas though, Jake and Gaud getting increased icetime, I don't see how the team can pry Toffoli away from LA though and what would be the goal of the team? Just make the playoffs? Or be contenders after most of them are too old? 30 to 33 is usually retirement age for all but the most skilled and the Canucks will have over half the team in that age bracket in 2 more seasons. That is a lot of players to replace and there are not that many in Utica for all the draft picks over the last 7 drafts. Unless the team reverts back to a one line team.

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2 minutes ago, Lazurus said:

With all that, how? Which teams? What about the cap or the following season's cap? Compliance buy outs are not going to happen because they add to the escrow and that is going to be a big hit already without adding another 5 to 10% salary reduction for all players just so a few can reap the benefits.

 

Some good ideas though, Jake and Gaud getting increased icetime, I don't see how the team can pry Toffoli away from LA though and what would be the goal of the team? Just make the playoffs? Or be contenders after most of them are too old? 30 to 33 is usually retirement age for all but the most skilled and the Canucks will have over half the team in that age bracket in 2 more seasons. That is a lot of players to replace and there are not that many in Utica for all the draft picks over the last 7 drafts. Unless the team reverts back to a one line team.

I stated if buyouts happened and/or contracts were move that would be the roster I would go with. I still think buyouts are a possibility. We will see. If no buyouts then JB will have his hands full moving out contracts, it isn't impossible but would be hard.

 

I feel we have a pretty good shot at Toffoli. Vancouver is a very enticing location, especially given our state as an up and coming team and his fit can't be denied. 30-33 isn't the retirement age usually for the majority and that certainly isn't too old. 35+ is old. Hell average players can still be in their prime till their early 30s. Older role players have been on every cup winning team.

 

Goal is to keep trending upward while incorporating younger players on a year to year basis.

 

As Gaud and Jake prove they can handle defensive responsibility than we can incorporate more younger forwards. What we don't want to see is us having to rely on Horvat's line too much defensively because Horvat's line are at their best when they're used in both ends, we need that in Gaud's line too. Hog/Pod could be just a year off and Lind will probably be a call up next year so now's the time to get Gaud and Jake on the PK and taking up more defensive roles. Once they become role players that can play in both ends we can move on from Beagle who's pretty much the stop gap for that to happen.

 

Defensively We gotta see where Tryamkin/Rafferty/Brisebois are at next year because there are guys behind them (Rath/Woo/OJ) that aren't too far off and we could potentially draft another. We definitely should try to acquire another good top 6 D if possible. We need that sort of depth and can't afford to roll with a young 3rd pair if we want to make the playoffs and keep trending upwards. Our top 6 was trash this year and we were fortunate for our top 4 to not be too hurt all year which Myers/Hughes helped Tanev/Edler with.

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19 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

Defensively We gotta see where Tryamkin/Rafferty/Brisebois are at next year because there are guys behind them (Rath/Woo/OJ) that aren't too far off and we could potentially draft another. We definitely should try to acquire another good top 6 D if possible. We need that sort of depth and can't afford to roll with a young 3rd pair if we want to make the playoffs and keep trending upwards. Our top 6 was trash this year and we were fortunate for our top 4 to not be too hurt all year which Myers/Hughes helped Tanev/Edler with.

When Tryamkin was 23 and a rookie he was already one of the top twp shut down D on the team without the benefit of being able to communicate with the coaches so he replaces Tanev easiy.

Brisebois has had a couple of cups of coffee already, not quite ready but could with 5 or 6 minutes although Fantenberg is still a little ahead.

Rafferty lit up the AHL, it would be good to see if he can play the NHL game, this team has had a few AHL super stars that didn't play worth a *&(&^p on the big team so ya, a look and see for sure, he might be the same as or a little better than Stecher.

OJ is done, put a fork in him, he might be a 6/7 guy but he will get chances because of his draft number.

Woo will be interesting to see

26 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

I feel we have a pretty good shot at Toffoli. Vancouver is a very enticing location, especially given our state as an up and coming team and his fit can't be denied. 30-33 isn't the retirement age usually for the majority and that certainly isn't too old. 35+ is old. Hell average players can still be in their prime till their early 30s. Older role players have been on every cup winning team.

There is nothing in Vancouver that he doesn't already have in LA, house with a pool, lots of friends, a wife with a career, better travel and LA is not that much older than Vancouver, they drop Quick and trade Carter and they have more young players than the Canucks and experience winning two Stanley Cups, essentially a retooling. If they did that they will still have 21 draft picks over the next two years and 33 mil in cap space if they move Carter and Quick, even a buyout of Quick leaves them enough to pay Toffoli 6 mil with term, Markstrom 6.5 mil with term and clause and go after Hall at 8 mil and still have money left over and an over filled prospect pool for the next 5 years.

No,... they are way ahead of the Canucks in experience, youth and cap management, imagine how they can clean up in the expansion draft.

AND

Houses and taxes are way higher here.

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4 minutes ago, Lazurus said:

When Tryamkin was 23 and a rookie he was already one of the top twp shut down D on the team without the benefit of being able to communicate with the coaches so he replaces Tanev easiy.

Brisebois has had a couple of cups of coffee already, not quite ready but could with 5 or 6 minutes although Fantenberg is still a little ahead.

Rafferty lit up the AHL, it would be good to see if he can play the NHL game, this team has had a few AHL super stars that didn't play worth a *&(&^p on the big team so ya, a look and see for sure, he might be the same as or a little better than Stecher.

OJ is done, put a fork in him, he might be a 6/7 guy but he will get chances because of his draft number.

Woo will be interesting to see

There is nothing in Vancouver that he doesn't already have in LA, house with a pool, lots of friends, a wife with a career, better travel and LA is not that much older than Vancouver, they drop Quick and trade Carter and they have more young players than the Canucks and experience winning two Stanley Cups, essentially a retooling. If they did that they will still have 21 draft picks over the next two years and 33 mil in cap space if they move Carter and Quick, even a buyout of Quick leaves them enough to pay Toffoli 6 mil with term, Markstrom 6.5 mil with term and clause and go after Hall at 8 mil and still have money left over and an over filled prospect pool for the next 5 years.

No,... they are way ahead of the Canucks in experience, youth and cap management, imagine how they can clean up in the expansion draft.

AND

Houses and taxes are way higher here.

I don't think he replaces Tanev at all, at least not right away. His ceiling could be a solid top 6 D for all we know. He really is a wildcard in how good he'll be. People can assume but nobody will know till we all see him play. It would be dangerous to have him replace Tanev next year. It could really backfire and stall any sort of uptrend so we should probably try to keep Tanev if we want to be good.

 

I doubt LA turns it around faster than we move up or become as good as us in the next few years. Some over the top, unrealistic what ifs would need to happen like you mentioned. Realistically by the time they're good Toffoli will be closer to his mid 30s. Could just sign with us than go back to LA to end his career. Might be what happens.

 

Age of team isn't really the same when you go in depth with it. All their core players are a whole lot older than ours while our role players are older than theirs. They're going through the process of acquiring project type players like any rebuilding team does hence why they got a lot of 25/26 year old players. Kempe is their only player under 25 with over 30 points while we have six, 5 of which are 23 and younger. That's a huge different in where our teams are at. 

 

All depends on if he values success which players do. He isn't gonna get that in LA, he will here. Vancouver is a pretty good option since it's in the Pacific too which is a huge bonus for him personally. If you're gonna sign with a team than stay in the division with Vancouver close to LA where he can play playoff hockey and his wife can be close to home. Makes good sense really.

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Posted (edited)

I often wonder where Podkolzin fits in long term?

 

With Toffoli, EP, Miller, Brock, Bo, and Tanner on medium length contracts where does he slot in?

 

Third line?

Edited by Chris12345

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7 hours ago, Chris12345 said:

I often wonder where Podkolzin fits in long term?

 

With Toffoli, EP, Miller, Brock, Bo, and Tanner on medium length contracts where does he slot in?

 

Third line?

I would assume either Tanner doesn't get extended or Podz is tried on the third line rw and either Virt or Boeser is traded for a dman. That's saying Toffoli resigns. 

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4 hours ago, KKnight said:

I would assume either Tanner doesn't get extended or Podz is tried on the third line rw and either Virt or Boeser is traded for a dman. That's saying Toffoli resigns. 

Yea that's what I think eventually Tanner goes.

 

I often go against the grain on here but I don't think rookies should earn their ice time.  Sure they have to be ready and work hard but I don't think slotting top six forwards in bottom six roles helps anyone.

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Ovechkin McDavid Kucherov

Drasaitl    Crosby  Pastrnak

Marchand McKinnon Stone

Miller        Mathews   Brock Boeser


Approx 85is million

 

exrtra :  EP

 

 

Hedman  Carlson

Burns   Pietrangelo

Makar  Weber
 

Approx : 40 million 

 

7th Q Hughes.

 

 

Goalies:  Rask.  Vasilevsky.  Markstrom 

 

Approx: 20 million 

 

Total 145 million approx cap penalty 40% of this 23 man roster ha ha. 

 

Ha ha.   So out these guys we actually have three deserving players by position based on points and ability/play...and a couple honourable mentions.   Guess we’d suffer some pretty big cap penalties as in probably only half the players could play any given night...

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Chris12345 said:

Yea that's what I think eventually Tanner goes.

 

I often go against the grain on here but I don't think rookies should earn their ice time.  Sure they have to be ready and work hard but I don't think slotting top six forwards in bottom six roles helps anyone.

Did you mean you do think rookies should earn their ice time?  Of course they should.   Otherwise what sort of culture does that instill?  Nothing at all wrong with internal competition- it brings the best out of players.  Bob Gainey is famously said that once he got in he was constantly afraid of a younger more skilled/talented player coming in and taking his spot - from his first to last game he played like his career depended on it every game - and it inspired a trophy that probably should be named after him (since that’s a common thing these days).   Just like Art Ross could be named after Gretzky same with the Hart trophy ha ha.  And the Norris after Orr.    Actually not a fan of renaming them but this is one I could get behind - playing against Gainey was like “ a bad night in jail”.
 

  Rookies need to be inspired by their coach and their veteran teammates never to get complacent.   JV is a good example of this - gets in right away and entitlement seeped in and it stopped his development.   Yes we have a fair amount of veteran with 1-3 years left in their contracts.   But It’s silly to pencil in Hoglander or Podz at this point - Lind is closer then they are and rarely do you see his name pop up.   It’s rare that a 18 or 19 year old step in and earn a top six role.  Horvat is our Captain, and he made it because he was physically able, good at face offs - and most importantly we had nobody better for the spot.  He played his way into a top six role and the C.   Same should be said with everyone else who joins the team, and he’s a great example of doing it the right way. JV and McAan are the opposite. 

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13 hours ago, Chris12345 said:

I often wonder where Podkolzin fits in long term?

 

With Toffoli, EP, Miller, Brock, Bo, and Tanner on medium length contracts where does he slot in?

 

Third line?

That’s his game - middle six forward is my best guess.  His best quality is along the boards and getting the puck or possession back.  He’d have been a perfect line-mate for the Sedins possibly, it looks like that’s his best case scenario - a complimentary player to a top line but not the main component.    His game also screams center and he’s getting some time with that so that’s also in the cards.   If he can make the switch then he’s probably going to be our third line center with an asterisk- as in Horvats long term replacement and Sutters short term one.  Best case. 

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6 hours ago, KKnight said:

I would assume either Tanner doesn't get extended or Podz is tried on the third line rw and either Virt or Boeser is traded for a dman. That's saying Toffoli resigns. 

Still another year before Podz plays here .... a lot could happen in the time.   Maybe he has a bad year - or maybe his offense starts matching his motor and Peter Forsberg 2.0 is on the horizon ha ha.  More likely he makes modest gains and comes to camp after next season and gets a tryout.   Don’t think he’s likely going to displace anyone until he’s had some games.   Ideally we make the playoffs and he gets some games after his season is over...that way JB has the summer to make a trade to fit him in IF he’s ready.   Always try to make your team better and a reasonable TT signing would allow JB to make a minor trade in JV (a bottom pairing D maybe) or a blockbuster with BB in a year or so.  As long as the return is fair I could stomach that.   BB could break out - but even now it’s on the early side...  He’s much better off keeping Boeser and hoping he plays an entire season and scores lots of goals then making a trade this early.  
 

I think Miller EP BB could be a top three line in this league in two years.   TT gets a bump playing with those guys but not expecting a PPG out of him,  best case Horvat/Pearson like numbers over an entire season.   BB on the other hand - has the ability to score 40 goals in this league and think he will one day.   Maybe even next season - he should be 100% then. 

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On 5/16/2020 at 9:31 AM, IBatch said:

Still another year before Podz plays here .... a lot could happen in the time.   Maybe he has a bad year - or maybe his offense starts matching his motor and Peter Forsberg 2.0 is on the horizon ha ha.  More likely he makes modest gains and comes to camp after next season and gets a tryout.   Don’t think he’s likely going to displace anyone until he’s had some games.   Ideally we make the playoffs and he gets some games after his season is over...that way JB has the summer to make a trade to fit him in IF he’s ready.   Always try to make your team better and a reasonable TT signing would allow JB to make a minor trade in JV (a bottom pairing D maybe) or a blockbuster with BB in a year or so.  As long as the return is fair I could stomach that.   BB could break out - but even now it’s on the early side...  He’s much better off keeping Boeser and hoping he plays an entire season and scores lots of goals then making a trade this early.  
 

I think Miller EP BB could be a top three line in this league in two years.   TT gets a bump playing with those guys but not expecting a PPG out of him,  best case Horvat/Pearson like numbers over an entire season.   BB on the other hand - has the ability to score 40 goals in this league and think he will one day.   Maybe even next season - he should be 100% then. 

Don't kid yourself. I think JV returns much more than a bottom pairing dman. JV was on pace to 45ish points. Up until now 45 points would have been a career high for Pearson and JV is 4 years younger than him. Not to mention he plays on our third line. I think people often devalue what Virt could bring back in a trade, but that's saying we even want to trade him. 

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