Sign in to follow this  
janisahockeynut

New Jersey - Vancouver (Proposal)

Recommended Posts

Well, I know we do not like trading our babies...……..but here is one for you

 

Brock Boeser and Oli Juolevi

 

for

 

Arizona's 2020 1st + Nolan Foote + Kevin Bahl + Tyler Toffoli

 

 

Now, I list Tyler Toffoli because IMO, he is more dynamic than Brock Boeser, and I do not believe we will be able to keep both, so ultimately we will let Toffoli walk, if we keep Boeser.

 

Partner that with the fact that are at strong at RW.....Toffoli, Virtanen, Podkolzin and Lind and thin at LW prospects after Hoglander.

 

Nolan Foote will be a strong LWer prospect and has great size. Bahl is a huge LHD who is looking good......both are waiver exempt for 2 more years after this year

 

Taking Arizona's 1st this could mean having 2-1st's this year, if Vancouver doesn't make the playoffs (how they decide, I do not know???), but there would be a chance is a very deep draft,

 

where we had both picks, it would again set us up depth wise for years to come.

 

Now, the key to this is Rathbone and if he signs with us, as we can't loose both Rathbone and Juolevi, IMO, so this proposal is for JB directly, because he is the only one that knows, what is what.

 

What is Boeser's value? a 1st, a roster player and a blue chip prospect, so with the addition of Juolevi, I think it balances out...……….

 

Why does NJ do this, because Boeser is the best player involved, at this time...……..and they desperately need him

 

So flame away! I am bored, and I don't mind...…………..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wouldn’t include Toffoli as value going back as he’s not signed by zona. Just we’d have the cap space to sign him. So when I look at it like Boeser and Juolevi for the 17th pick, Foote and Bahl (fine prospects but I see them both as limited offensively) which I don’t like. I see Foote as a bottom 6 and Bahl as a 2nd pairing stay at home dman. Makes me feel like we’re trading the quality for quantity. We have way to much quantity.

  • Hydration 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

.

Edited by mll

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, flickyoursedin said:

I wouldn’t include Toffoli as value going back as he’s not signed by zona. Just we’d have the cap space to sign him. So when I look at it like Boeser and Juolevi for the 17th pick, Foote and Bahl (fine prospects but I see them both as limited offensively) which I don’t like. I see Foote as a bottom 6 and Bahl as a 2nd pairing stay at home dman. Makes me feel like we’re trading the quality for quantity. We have way to much quantity.

Exactly how I feel. Boeser alone could probably get that package tbh. Not saying I’d do it but that’s what his value should be. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

isn't it somewhat criminal

to be proposing trading players

from a reasonably controlled virus jurisdiction - bc

to a crazy out of control new york state jurisdiction

where the epidemic/pandemic is about to get completely crazy dangerous

and will tip into territory that is a step worse then the worst areas

of italy?

 

you want to send brock there?
i can understand rescuing jersey players

but why send brock there?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

New Jersey is apparently quite high on Foote. Not sure why they trade him. Also not sure why we send Boeser anywhere that isn’t Minnie. At least we can try nab Dumba outta there and send him closer to home. Would rather keep Boeser rather than trade him for a forward. Hell the only reason I’d okay a Minnesota trade is so Boeser can be closer to home. I really like Boeser. He is class personified. A great man and a very good player. Why y’all trying to get rid of him? Gotta be better ways of clearing cap. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

-

 

Edited by mll

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, N7Nucks said:

New Jersey is apparently quite high on Foote. Not sure why they trade him. Also not sure why we send Boeser anywhere that isn’t Minnie. At least we can try nab Dumba outta there and send him closer to home. Would rather keep Boeser rather than trade him for a forward. Hell the only reason I’d okay a Minnesota trade is so Boeser can be closer to home. I really like Boeser. He is class personified. A great man and a very good player. Why y’all trying to get rid of him? Gotta be better ways of clearing cap. 

Oh, I understand NJ may be quite high on Foote....imagine how high they would be on Boeser. To me this is about Cap and depth, as it is about anything for the Canucks.

We end up with 2 pieces in Foote and Bahl that would be solid pieces going forward and the pick gets us a pieces that allows us to pick a high end future...…..Toffoli  is better that Boeser……..and I could care less if Boeser is a quality guy, if we are getting quality guys back. 

 

That is the problem with CDC in general, as the argument is always, well this guy is a quality guy...well, if a trade improves your team, you have to look past this. We have no idea if Brock will or will not sign his UFA contract, regardless whether he is a quality guy...maybe he wants to play closer to home. So he sacrifices some money and signs back east.

The point is, we just can't tell. He has circumstances, that are totally understandable...….

 

So, looking past Brock being a quality guy....does it strengthen our team...…..I suggest it does, especially when you put Toffoli into the equation.

 

11 hours ago, flickyoursedin said:

I wouldn’t include Toffoli as value going back as he’s not signed by zona. Just we’d have the cap space to sign him. So when I look at it like Boeser and Juolevi for the 17th pick, Foote and Bahl (fine prospects but I see them both as limited offensively) which I don’t like. I see Foote as a bottom 6 and Bahl as a 2nd pairing stay at home dman. Makes me feel like we’re trading the quality for quantity. We have way to much quantity.

I think you have to use him in the discussion, as especially with this COVID -19, and a possible recession, possible cap reduction, and a known problem with our cap as is, we most probably loose Toffoli, because of no cap room. Or just because there is a real possibility Aqualini may not be able to afford right up to the cap, so...…...

 

lets look at the argument of Toffoli vs Boeser………..different players for sure. IMO Toffoli is more Dynamic, and more a driver than Boeser, but lets say he is not, lets say that Boeser is rated as a solid 9 out of 10, and Toffoli is rated as a solid 8 out of 10.

 

My point is that Toffoli, if he walks because we can not fit him under our cap, we get nothing. Where as if we move Boeser, we can then fit Toffoli under our cap, we are better off, because the question is...…..is the difference between Boeser and Toffoli, a mere 1 out of 10, worth Bahl, Foote, and a 1st? This is why I add Toffoli into the formula of the trade.

 

To put it into a math formula...…...Boeser + Juolevi < Toffoli + Foote + Bahl + 2020 1st

 

IMO, there isn't even a question as to what is the right answer...……..not even a question!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
48 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

Oh, I understand NJ may be quite high on Foote....imagine how high they would be on Boeser. To me this is about Cap and depth, as it is about anything for the Canucks.

We end up with 2 pieces in Foote and Bahl that would be solid pieces going forward and the pick gets us a pieces that allows us to pick a high end future...…..Toffoli  is better that Boeser……..and I could care less if Boeser is a quality guy, if we are getting quality guys back. 

 

That is the problem with CDC in general, as the argument is always, well this guy is a quality guy...well, if a trade improves your team, you have to look past this. We have no idea if Brock will or will not sign his UFA contract, regardless whether he is a quality guy...maybe he wants to play closer to home. So he sacrifices some money and signs back east.

The point is, we just can't tell. He has circumstances, that are totally understandable...….

 

So, looking past Brock being a quality guy....does it strengthen our team...…..I suggest it does, especially when you put Toffoli into the equation.

 

I think you have to use him in the discussion, as especially with this COVID -19, and a possible recession, possible cap reduction, and a known problem with our cap as is, we most probably loose Toffoli, because of no cap room. Or just because there is a real possibility Aqualini may not be able to afford right up to the cap, so...…...

 

lets look at the argument of Toffoli vs Boeser………..different players for sure. IMO Toffoli is more Dynamic, and more a driver than Boeser, but lets say he is not, lets say that Boeser is rated as a solid 9 out of 10, and Toffoli is rated as a solid 8 out of 10.

 

My point is that Toffoli, if he walks because we can not fit him under our cap, we get nothing. Where as if we move Boeser, we can then fit Toffoli under our cap, we are better off, because the question is...…..is the difference between Boeser and Toffoli, a mere 1 out of 10, worth Bahl, Foote, and a 1st? This is why I add Toffoli into the formula of the trade.

 

To put it into a math formula...…...Boeser + Juolevi < Toffoli + Foote + Bahl + 2020 1st

 

IMO, there isn't even a question as to what is the right answer...……..not even a question!

Well for me I still see value in Juolevi. He needs to get his body right but I still think he can become a top 4 dman in the NHL. So I value Juolevi>Bahl or at least the same value. Sure Bahl is a big and steady guy but he’s no sure thing himself. So now in my mind you’re saying Boeser for the 17th overall and Foote (whom I value as a future 3rd line winger). Boeser isn’t a cap dump he’s a good player. I just think we can clear cap in a different way or find better prospects then getting a handful of okay stuff.

Edited by flickyoursedin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, flickyoursedin said:

Well for me I still see value in Juolevi. He needs to get his body right but I still think he can become a top 4 dman in the NHL. So I value Juolevi>Bahl or at least the same value. Sure Bahl is a big and steady guy but he’s no sure thing himself. So now in my mind you’re saying Boeser for the 17th overall and Foote (whom I value as a future 3rd line winger). Boeser isn’t a cap dump he’s a good player. I just think we can clear cap in a different way or find better prospects then getting a handful of okay stuff.

Thanks for responding

 

Yeah, for sure I don't think Boeser is a cap dump either...…..he is a solid blue chip player

 

I just wonder if we can sign Toffoli, Tryamkin, Virtanen, Motte, MacEwen, Gaudette, Tanev, Stecher, Markstrom and still have room next year for Pearson, Edler, Demko, Hughes, Pettersson's contracts next year...……...

 

And again, it is who Toffoli can replace internally, that points to Boeser, IMO

 

To me, it is not about Boeser in a bubble, it is about Boeser as a valueable trading piece that will bring you returns that are cost controlled, yet valueable down the road, it is about balance and where we can move Boeser and keep Toffoli, and make it into a plus, not a minus...…..

 

Right now, there are so many variables, and it is about controlling those variables...…….

 

As for Juolevi, he a secondary piece, and could be a top 4 Dman, but even as late as the end of the season in Utica, he was missing games, due to maintenance and injury, so I have concern  that his long term wellness maybe a deterrent…….But your point of Bahl =/- than Juolevi is a solid argument in terms of skill, but the overall gain is what I am looking at...…...

Edited by janisahockeynut

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, janisahockeynut said:

Thanks for responding

 

Yeah, for sure I don't think Boeser is a cap dump either...…..he is a solid blue chip player

 

I just wonder if we can sign Toffoli, Tryamkin, Virtanen, Motte, MacEwen, Gaudette, Tanev, Stecher, Markstrom and still have room next year for Pearson, Edler, Demko, Hughes, Pettersson's contracts next year...……...

 

And again, it is who Toffoli can replace internally, that points to Boeser, IMO

 

To me, it is not about Boeser in a bubble, it is about Boeser as a valueable trading piece that will bring you returns that are cost controlled, yet valueable down the road, it is about balance and where we can move Boeser and keep Toffoli, and make it into a plus, not a minus...…..

 

Right now, there are so many variables, and it is about controlling those variables...…….

 

As for Juolevi, he a secondary piece, and could be a top 4 Dman, but even as late as the end of the season in Utica, he was missing games, due to maintenance and injury, so I have concern  that his long term wellness maybe a deterrent…….But your point of Bahl =/- than Juolevi is a solid argument in terms of skill, but the overall gain is what I am looking at...…...

It’s like the equivalent of say sending Winnipeg our pick if we had it 17th overall, Lind and Woo for Ehlers and Dylan Samberg. So they can have an extra 6 million in cap and pursue Toffoli if they want to. So it turns out to be 17th, Lind, Woo and Toffoli for Ehlers and Samberg. Or go to Philly and send them the package of 17th, Lind, Woo and the cap space to spend for Toffoli for Konecny and Cam York.


It would be nice to keep all the players you are saying but Juolevi, Rafferty and hopefully Tryamkin could be additions on the backend next year so you save money on Tanev and Stechers departures. Then the next year we have Sutter, Baertschi and Benn off the books which sheds like 10 mill and the year after that Eriksson which frees up 6. If we can lose those contracts early that’s awesome! However if we really need to trim a little bit of cash paying small prices to shed Benn or Beartschi should be the play and keep both Boeser and Toffoli. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Our right side is set, assuming Tofu is signed.

 

Tofu

Boeser

Virtanen

Macewen

 

I'm hoping we can keep that together.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, flickyoursedin said:

It’s like the equivalent of say sending Winnipeg our pick if we had it 17th overall, Lind and Woo for Ehlers and Dylan Samberg. So they can have an extra 6 million in cap and pursue Toffoli if they want to. So it turns out to be 17th, Lind, Woo and Toffoli for Ehlers and Samberg. Or go to Philly and send them the package of 17th, Lind, Woo and the cap space to spend for Toffoli for Konecny and Cam York.


It would be nice to keep all the players you are saying but Juolevi, Rafferty and hopefully Tryamkin could be additions on the backend next year so you save money on Tanev and Stechers departures. Then the next year we have Sutter, Baertschi and Benn off the books which sheds like 10 mill and the year after that Eriksson which frees up 6. If we can lose those contracts early that’s awesome! However if we really need to trim a little bit of cash paying small prices to shed Benn or Beartschi should be the play and keep both Boeser and Toffoli. 

I am afraid it is not like the Winnipeg scenario

 

We all ready have Toffoli, and can negotiate with him alone, until his contract runs out......the point is Benning can plan, and will know if Toffoli will sign for the offer, and can pull the plug on the Boeser deal, knowing that Toffoli is already in the bag.

 

That is way different than waiting to see if Toffoli is available, then trading Ehlers, then signing Toffoli. It is different because we have exclusive rights on both right now, which gives us the leg up...….one which Winnipeg would not enjoy in the same way.

 

I don't mean to be rude, but I am totally aware of our system, cap issues, and who is getting close to graduating...….I do understand completely, which is why I suggest we should move asset while it is completely in our control.

 

It is the one thing, CDC in general does not want to do...……..no big trades, ours are always the best, and we will lose on any trade...…….I do not believe that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, komodo0921 said:

Our right side is set, assuming Tofu is signed.

 

Tofu

Boeser

Virtanen

Macewen

 

I'm hoping we can keep that together.

Looks great! What are you going to do with Podkolzin and LInd in 2 years?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

This man added toff to the deal because he seen how unfair the package heading back to van for Brock looked. JUST STOP

Edited by Dats hockey

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

Well, I know we do not like trading our babies...……..but here is one for you

 

Brock Boeser and Oli Juolevi

 

for

 

Arizona's 2020 1st + Nolan Foote + Kevin Bahl + Tyler Toffoli

 

 

Now, I list Tyler Toffoli because IMO, he is more dynamic than Brock Boeser, and I do not believe we will be able to keep both, so ultimately we will let Toffoli walk, if we keep Boeser.

 

Partner that with the fact that are at strong at RW.....Toffoli, Virtanen, Podkolzin and Lind and thin at LW prospects after Hoglander.

 

Nolan Foote will be a strong LWer prospect and has great size. Bahl is a huge LHD who is looking good......both are waiver exempt for 2 more years after this year

 

Taking Arizona's 1st this could mean having 2-1st's this year, if Vancouver doesn't make the playoffs (how they decide, I do not know???), but there would be a chance is a very deep draft,

 

where we had both picks, it would again set us up depth wise for years to come.

 

Now, the key to this is Rathbone and if he signs with us, as we can't loose both Rathbone and Juolevi, IMO, so this proposal is for JB directly, because he is the only one that knows, what is what.

 

What is Boeser's value? a 1st, a roster player and a blue chip prospect, so with the addition of Juolevi, I think it balances out...……….

 

Why does NJ do this, because Boeser is the best player involved, at this time...……..and they desperately need him

 

So flame away! I am bored, and I don't mind...…………..

Sign Taffoli to 4 yr x 4.8 million, solid 200 foot game and will score 30 goals 75 points playing with Pettersson..

Trade Tanev for 3 rd on draft day ..save his 4.8 million..Replace with Severson...To make this deal we move Boser..

Trade Stetcher for 3rd or 4th save his 2.6 million...Replace with Rafferty 900,000

 

Trade Boser and Joulevi...NJ

 Severson, 25, 6'2 solid #2 D man perfect fit & Miles Wood 6'2, 25, 200lbs, very gritty will drop gloves need his toughness

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, komodo0921 said:

Our right side is set, assuming Tofu is signed.

 

Tofu

Boeser

Virtanen

Macewen

 

I'm hoping we can keep that together.

Need a top #2 D man-- Need to replace Tanev..

Sign Tafolli, 4 yrs x 4.8 million...

Can't keep everyone in cap world..Trade Boser..

Sign a #2 D man- under 25 two way guy that can play over 21 mins example Severson , 25, New Jersey Devils

Edited by wildcam

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

TT is in his prime and managed a total of four 40 point or better seasons in his entire career.  Also it's his contract year and big pay day as a UFA, so bouncing back to 44 points isn't a surprise- especially considering his career season was his last contract year.

 

BB was ahead of him this year in the scoring race when he went down...factually 4th best by position...and is still ahead of him by one point in eleven less games now.... far as health goes that's an issue - well actually for both of them at various points in their careers they've both missed games.   

 

What BB has done his first three seasons is leaps and bounds better then what TT managed at the same age for the most part.    His career PPG should only go up - at worst almost certainly won't go down.    The ten game sample size look great I'd admit to that - but we've also seen ten game streaks with BB dominating too.... really don't get why we'd give up on him at this point just to get older - he's a huge part of our young core and in the right age group.   Would be like giving up on a young Patrick Sharp in favour for an older worse player who just happened to be having a good try out with the team before free agency and his overpaid legacy contract.   TT reminds me of Silverberg or even a slightly better version of Hansen - great guys to have on the team no doubt, very good middle six players.   If we trade BB now we take a step back with our cores age and lose his best years.   Naslund was 27 when he was doing his thing - the Sedins peaked at 30.    Second fasted to 50 in our history..

 

On TT.  We can keep both you know ... don't re-sign Leivo, let Stetcher walk and promote someone else - and pay a modest price to dump Bear.   Can't see him getting the same money as Neal did - he's a proven goal scorer and a beast at times.   Definitely can see a regression coming - as we've seen with well, LE, Okposo, Ladd, Neal, Lucic, Foligno and well a lot more then that.   Hayes ... ugh not at the cap hit thanks.  Skinner - wow!  Duchene ugh ... and all these guys with the exception of maybe Lucic (who at least can punch things) have had great seasons - some quite a few - yet faded quickly.    TT at least is young enough to buck that trend for a few years and it would be great to have him at a decent cap hit - but it comes with some risk too. 

  • Hydration 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, wildcam said:

Need a top #2 D man-- Need to replace Tanev..

Sign Tafolli, 4 yrs x 4.8 million...

Can't keep everyone in cap world..Trade Boser..

Sign a #2 D man- under 25 two way guy that can play over 21 mins example Severson , 25, New Jersey Devils

Definitely need another top line defenceman but, imo, Rafferty will not be more ready then he is now.

Right shot with offensive instincts.

Has a good 2 way game.

Could be a good fit with Hughes.

Time to start giving our prospects their shots.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.