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canuktravella

youth versus vets direction benning should go

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17 hours ago, canuktravella said:

So next yr  benning should cut bait with some of the vets in my eyes if nhl gives us two free cobtract buy outs.

 

eriksson bought out or waived to minors 

sutter bought out  or waived

roussel retain half cap trade for a 3rd rounder

benn for a third rounder 

tanev rights traded for a 3rd and 4th

leivo rights traded for a 4th

stecher rights for a third 

 

this frees 22.5 mill if theres buyouts or 14 if no buyouts 

markstrom sign one yr 6 mill  trade or resign after seattle expansion

give tryamkin 3 yr deal 3.5 mill  per show me deal could be a steal when he dominates 

virtanen 3 yr 3.5 mill per 

gaudette 4 yr 2.75 mill per

toffoli 4 yrs 5.5 

motte 2 yr 1.5 

rathbone 3 yr elc 900k

mcewen 2 yr 1.4 per  should leave us with plenty of cap to resign petersson hughes the following yr 

 

line up 20-21 

miller petersson brock

pearson horvat toffoli

mcewen gaudette virtanen 

motte beagle lind 

 

edler myers 

hughes tryamkin

juolevi rafferty 

rathbone brisebois 

 

line up 21-22 lose myers 2 seattle trade pearson and marky for premium picks at deadline 21

 

miller petey boeser

podzolkin horvat toffoli

hoglander gaudette virtanen

motte   young center   lind

 

edler tryamkin 

hughes rathbone

juolevi rafferty

brisebois

 

demko

depietro 

who kills penalties?

who kills when Edler and Beagle are injured?

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2 hours ago, canuktravella said:

motte tryamkin virtanen juolevi

Will be a short PK at least.

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We'd suck if you went full youth. Need both.

 

Gaud and Jake are still rounding out their games hence why they are sheltered and not on the PK. If you're gonna add more players that need to be sheltered while we are still working with these guys you aren't gonna have a good mix.

 

Once Gaud/Jake do that we'd be in a position to bring in more young forwards to the top 9. Next year get rid of Sutter/Roussel and give Virtanen/Gaud some secondary PK time.

 

We definitely shouldn't have a young top 6 D pairing. Need a veteran to stabilize things for an up and coming D. Even Tryamkin is gonna need time to readjust to the NHL if he comes back. Someone like Dillon or Edmundson would do that nicely. Also Tanev/Hughes has worked out pretty well, I would try to get Tanev re-signed. We'd be locked up on D for a bit but Seattle could just take Tanev/Myers if they don't take Demko or we make a deal for them too. Rafferty would benefit from starting out as a 7th D, he'd get 40+ games with injuries. Get rid of Benn/Fanta. Juolevi might need another year, he just is finding his feet.

 

We are gonna keep bringing in youth on a yearly basis. Big Mac, Rafferty and hopefully Tryamkin will all likely be on the roster next year with Lind being the call up getting the Big Mac treatment, being groomed for the following year.

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For every Stanley Cup winning team you look and see every team has a good mixture of exciting youth and grizzled veterans.

 

Its not a secret, like @-AJ- said, you need both to win a Stanley Cup.   

 

 

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7 hours ago, canuktravella said:

motte tryamkin virtanen juolevi

Currently we have 

Beagle Ericksson

Edler Tanev

 

Sutter Motte

Fanta Myers

 

unless Beagle is injured and Ericksson is scratched

 

then we  get

Miller Pearson

and if Edler is out then Benn,

 

so who is your second group?

 

I woudl think at some point Horvat starts PKing

 

this just seems like the Gudbranson Hutton experiment all over again

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Posted (edited)

Miller, Horvat, Toffoli, Markstrom, Edler, Myers and Tanev (trade bait)....with EP40, Boeser and Hughes riding shotgun ....now that's a good blend of experience and youth...with more young guys who have been developing on the farm and in the NHL...this team will be a contender soon enough. The other vets can be traded or be serviceable  players for another year. This team will be very good in years 21/22/23

 

I'd trade for this guy...if you want vet leadership.

Capture.PNG.e1e9e768393d1a9847e239986ba50de8.PNG

Edited by Pete M

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Posted (edited)

Interesting discussion underlying the initial topic.

When is a player deemed to be a vet?

 

Is it age, is it the amount of games played (totally as a pro or in the NHL only?), or is it a combination of both? 

 

Horvat played more minutes than Beagle and JT, however only turning 25, MacEwan is a rookie (NHL) but turning 24 during the summer.

There has been a lot of talk over the last few years here about getting rid of the vets, but the goal posts seems to be moved regularly.

 

I think it's a combination of both. I don't consider JV a Vet, yet if he had been acquired through a trade, he would probably be close to the same category as JT, vet wise?

 

And some almost seems to see Pearson as an over the hill vet at 27...

 

Edited by spook007

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Good teams have good veteran players to play with their youth.

 

Fact of the matter is Virtanen is still developing. He was still being sheltered on a 3rd line with Gaud most of the year. He's taken a step this year offensively but hasn't improved drastically defensively to no longer need to be sheltered or has brought about a good physical game like Motte, Mac and Ferland.

 

It really isn't an argument of youth vs veterans. Good teams need both to succeed. You need role players and effective ones.

 

What we need to do is shed the bad ones and replace them with better ones. Sutter/Eriksson/Benn/Fanta/Roussel could be replaced with 2-3 solid pieces that would compliment our youth. If we got 2 compliance buyouts I would use those on Roussel/Eriksson and then trade Sutter/Benn. Sign Toffoli/top 6 guy, sign a top 9 guy if Ferland's done, sign Tanev and maybe sign a top 6 guy that's an upgrade on Stech to play with Tryamkin if he comes back like a Dillon/Edmundson and have Rafferty/Brisebois as the 7th and 8th D.

 

Petey-Miller-Toffoli/Boeser/UFA

Pearson-Horvat-Toffoli/Boeser/UFA

Ferland/UFA-Gaud-Virtanen

Motte-Beagle-Mac

Lind/???

 

Edler-Tryamkin/Myers

Hughes-Tanev

UFA-Tryamkin/Myers

Rafferty 

Brisebois

 

Groom guys like Rafferty/Brisebois/Lind for the following season like they did for Mac this year. Injuries happen then insert them in. Young guys step up earlier than expected then we have a good problem and can trade an asset like Pearson/Boeser/Toffoli for a good return. If we make a deal with Seattle to not take Demko/Markstrom and/or to take a certain player then another spot opens up.

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Posted (edited)

Pretty sure Toffoli is staying in LA, they will need his fit as much or more than the Canucks and LA is closer to retooling with much superior veterans already on the team.

Toffoli if offered the same money stays at home with his wife and her career.

 

It would be ludicrous for Benning to offer too much money for a player like Kesler, one that has banged himself up so much already.

Besides the team needs too much yet.

 

They still haven't made the playoffs and they are still in the bottom third of the league. In other words, not a good team yet. And that is with losing a 1rst and 2 2nd round picks of the future.

 

I posted in another thread that I heard something about compliance buyouts affect players escrow and they aren't going to give away more.

 

A rebuilding team has more young players on it than Vancouver has had over the last 6 years. This team has never been rebuilding, they trade away draft picks, sign older vets to long term clause contracts so there are no roster spots for youth to play and as far as leadership, they are still losing.

 

There is no way this group can stay together, at least 1/3 of the team will be gone in it's next inception.

 

Grasp the reality that there will have to be a true rebuild happening here, better to have one bad year and 10+ players under 23 getting better every year than hoping old vets can hang on for one more.

 

Pettersson and Hughes will need new deals next year and then what will Boeser want the year after?


Eriksson is still around and has a clause

Ferland has a clause and might get over his concussion issues, maybe but not a sure thing by a mile, so stuck with him

Sutter has a clause

Roussel has a clause

Beagle has a clause

Myers has a clause

Edler has a clause but on the last year of his deal

Nobody wanted Sven, three times but he doesn't have a clause.

 

They aren't going anywhere

 

Markstrom will be gone, too many teams want a top goalie, maybe Benning trades away Demko for a 2nd round pick instead.

Tanev, even though this market has usually over valued its players in this case they are under valuing his value as a shutdown veteran at 30 to teams on the cusp of contender status, his value is high in his home town, TO.

 

Who knows Miller might be on the block, he signed a low ball offer in Tampa where they have no income tax so he might be a little ticked with losing a substantial portion of his salary to taxes, they might get a 1rst back for him if they retain or maybe Horvat or Boeser are on the block, there are not many others that will get a 1rst round pick back

Edited by Lazurus
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On 4/29/2020 at 11:49 AM, Lazurus said:

Pretty sure Toffoli is staying in LA, they will need his fit as much or more than the Canucks and LA is closer to retooling with much superior veterans already on the team.

Toffoli if offered the same money stays at home with his wife and her career.

 

It would be ludicrous for Benning to offer too much money for a player like Kesler, one that has banged himself up so much already.

Besides the team needs too much yet.

 

They still haven't made the playoffs and they are still in the bottom third of the league. In other words, not a good team yet. And that is with losing a 1rst and 2 2nd round picks of the future.

 

I posted in another thread that I heard something about compliance buyouts affect players escrow and they aren't going to give away more.

 

A rebuilding team has more young players on it than Vancouver has had over the last 6 years. This team has never been rebuilding, they trade away draft picks, sign older vets to long term clause contracts so there are no roster spots for youth to play and as far as leadership, they are still losing.

 

There is no way this group can stay together, at least 1/3 of the team will be gone in it's next inception.

 

Grasp the reality that there will have to be a true rebuild happening here, better to have one bad year and 10+ players under 23 getting better every year than hoping old vets can hang on for one more.

 

Pettersson and Hughes will need new deals next year and then what will Boeser want the year after?


Eriksson is still around and has a clause

Ferland has a clause and might get over his concussion issues, maybe but not a sure thing by a mile, so stuck with him

Sutter has a clause

Roussel has a clause

Beagle has a clause

Myers has a clause

Edler has a clause but on the last year of his deal

Nobody wanted Sven, three times but he doesn't have a clause.

 

They aren't going anywhere

 

Markstrom will be gone, too many teams want a top goalie, maybe Benning trades away Demko for a 2nd round pick instead.

Tanev, even though this market has usually over valued its players in this case they are under valuing his value as a shutdown veteran at 30 to teams on the cusp of contender status, his value is high in his home town, TO.

 

Who knows Miller might be on the block, he signed a low ball offer in Tampa where they have no income tax so he might be a little ticked with losing a substantial portion of his salary to taxes, they might get a 1rst back for him if they retain or maybe Horvat or Boeser are on the block, there are not many others that will get a 1rst round pick back

Love the positive reinforcement. If there isnt a compliance buyout, expect ufa to be lame af and top free agents will be affected by this. They will have to do something to lessen the burden on teams. 

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On 3/27/2020 at 11:28 PM, Ghostsof1915 said:

There is no youth vs. vets. 

 

It's if you can go all youth, you will then have no experience, and not know how to handle things. 

 

The vets that we do have need to compliment our youth. 


In other words more JT Miller and Tyler Toffoli types and less Eriksson and Sutter types. 

tell that to Ottawa and Colorado

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On 3/27/2020 at 7:28 PM, Ghostsof1915 said:

There is no youth vs. vets. 

 

It's if you can go all youth, you will then have no experience, and not know how to handle things. 

 

The vets that we do have need to compliment our youth. 


In other words more JT Miller and Tyler Toffoli types and less Eriksson and Sutter types. 

All we need is a Messier type  to push us over the top.  Iginla’s gone for awhile - maybe we should go after Bergeron?

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