Top 50 Canucks of All-Time - #10

[-AJ-]

2 hours ago, Master Mind said:

It is quite curious how Edler is getting this many votes. Perhaps because he's the only one in the poll currently on the Canucks? He's done a lot for the franchise, but has never been a star player. I would think a top 20 placement is appropriate being the leader in D points, but not top 10.

 

I would imagine Kesler would have been voted in already if his time in Vancouver ended on a different note. 40 goal Selke winners don't come by very often.

 

I'd have Kesler, Ohlund, and Bertuzzi as my next 3.

I don't have Edler yet, but I do have him at 11.

 

I don't know the reasons of others, but I assume longevity has a lot to do with it. Edler at this point has beaten every Canucks defenseman record and is starting to push further and further ahead of them all. He's over 100 games more than Ohlund at this point and over 200 games more than Kesler. For what it's worth, I have Kesler right after Edler though at 12, so they're very close IMO.

 

 

In the spirit of being honest and unbiased though, I'll admit I looked up some trophy stats to see how Edler compared to Ohlund and Ohlund actually comes out on top. Edler finished 16th in Calder voting while Ohlund famously finished 2nd. Edler has only received Norris votes once, in 2011-12 when he finished 13th in voting. Ohlund has had Norris votes in two different seasons, finishing 14th in 2003-04 and as high as 10th in 2001-02, when he scored his career high of 36 points. (Another thought here is that 36 points as a career high is quite low compared to Edler).

 

When it comes to the Babe Pratt Trophy (for the best Canucks d-man), Edler is up to three now with his win last year, tying Jovanovski--Ohlund is part of a four-way tie for first with four.

 

It's not too often this happens, but I've actually made slight changes to my list as a result of this research bumping Ohlund up a bit.

[189lb enforcers?]

Do fans here forget the impact Ohlund had on this team? 
 

I know Edler has more points, but Ohlund played against the Goons and was this team’s first defensive stalwart since the days of Orland.
 

Ohlund was a complete Dman, did it all for a long time. 
 

He was one of several key UFAs this franchise received nothing for and who walked as FAs during that first dozen years or so of the 2000s. Those departures helped deplete the cupboards just as much as the crappy Gillis regime did, IMO. 
 

Ohlund was as close to Norris material as we’ve had here. Durable, tough, skilled and almost unbeatable one on one, he was probably my favourite Canuck.
 

The news surrounding him at the draft and beyond, all that drama, would make a great article/read for the forum, if anyone is interested in nailing a click-gimme. 

 

 

Edited March 29, 2020 by 189lb enforcers?

[Kevin Biestra]

4 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Do fans here forget the impact Ohlund had on this team? 
 

I know Edler has more points, but Ohlund played against the Goons and was this team’s first defensive stalwart since the days of Orland.
 

Ohlund was a complete Dman, did it all for a long time. 
 

He was one of several key UFAs this franchise received nothing for and who walked as FAs during that first dozen years or so of the 2000s. Those departures helped deplete the cupboards just as much as the crappy Gillis regime did, IMO. 
 

Ohlund was as close to Norris material as we’ve had here. Durable, tough, skilled and almost unbeatable one on one, he was probably my favourite Canuck.
 

The news surrounding him at the draft and beyond, all that drama, would make a great article/read for the forum, if anyone is interested in nailing a click-gimme.

 

Ohlund was a fine defenseman, but to say that Harold Snepsts was not a defensive stalwart is to malign the good man, and that's setting aside Garth Butcher, Dana Murzyn, Gerald Diduck, Dave Babych, etc.  Heck, even Jim Benning.

 

And Jovanovski came substantially closer to winning a Norris.  Ohlund was a damn good player, but he, Edler, Jovo, Lidster, Lumme, all of these guys illustrate how the entire bunch of our "greatest" defensemen are all grouped together around "darn good."

[189lb enforcers?]

Everyone loves prime-Bertuzzi, but let’s not forget about his floating during his offside-magnet years too. 

Like Naslund and even the Sedins, Bert was great for a very short window, mediocre for most of his career and a liability when he wasn’t scoring. 
 

Greatest Canuck Moments... would include players like that. 
Greatest Playets, though, that’s where guys like Skriko, Tanti, Kesler and even the unsportsmanlike-Burrows should rank higher than Bertuzzi, simply because Bert’s dominance was incredibly short lived, seemingly ending right about when steroids became a focal point within the league. 
 

I can understand Edler cracking the Top 10, not that I’d agree, but his records and gravy stats during the peak years of the Sedins qualify him. I think he’s always been a rather ordinary Dman who benefited from being in the right place at the right time, kind of like Burr.
 

I’d say Ohlund is more deserving than Kesler and should start the next run of players, but whatever. 

[189lb enforcers?]

6 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Ohlund was a fine defenseman, but to say that Harold Snepsts was not a defensive stalwart is to malign the good man, and that's setting aside Garth Butcher, Dana Murzyn, Gerald Diduck, Dave Babych, etc.  Heck, even Jim Benning.

 

And Jovanovski came substantially closer to winning a Norris.  Ohlund was a damn good player, but he, Edler, Jovo, Lidster, Lumme, all of these guys illustrate how the entire bunch of our "greatest" defensemen are all grouped together around "darn good."

You know what, you’re right. 
Oversight on my part. 

Harold was a machine. 

I’d pretty much call him the Linden of Canucks D. 
 

Thanks for that post. Spot on. 

[Kevin Biestra]

6 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

You know what, you’re right. 
Oversight on my part. 

Harold was a machine. 

I’d pretty much call him the Linden of Canucks D. 
 

Thanks for that post. Spot on. 

 

The Linden (or Smyl) of defensemen is a great way to describe him.  He is one of a handful of players that - when I'm contemplating "greatest Canuck" - rises a bit above his statistics in the way he captured the heart of the city and bled Canuck colors.  Linden, Ronning, Brodeur, Smyl, Tiger, Odjick.  Snepsts.

 

 

[189lb enforcers?]

8 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Ohlund was a fine defenseman, but to say that Harold Snepsts was not a defensive stalwart is to malign the good man, and that's setting aside Garth Butcher, Dana Murzyn, Gerald Diduck, Dave Babych, etc.  Heck, even Jim Benning.

 

And Jovanovski came substantially closer to winning a Norris.  Ohlund was a damn good player, but he, Edler, Jovo, Lidster, Lumme, all of these guys illustrate how the entire bunch of our "greatest" defensemen are all grouped together around "darn good."

Disagree about Jovo.

He was an adventure with the puck while walking the puck on the offensive blue line. He was definitely bolder with the puck, with predictable turnover results. 
 

Jovo with the puck was almost as nerve racking as Luongo. 
 

By far, even more so than our friend Ibatch, your posts in these threads have been my favourite reads and those which I can identify with. 
 

Speaking of the D, remember Plasvic, Glynn and all the pylons they regularly dressed? You made mention about this franchise’s reliance on incredibly shallow and weak Dcores. So true. 
 

Once Jovo was here, Baron etc came and we had a big, rugged and skilled D. Then Minny embarrassed us thanks to the worst Canuck goalie basket case ever, Cloutier. Man, I hated him as a Canuck. Ticking time bomb that you just know was about to throw the game away. 
 

The Canucks were out gunned by the Colorado types of the day. They were kind of like Calgary that way. Whenever they got good, Edmonton was there, or LA or whatever.
 

The Canucks D has been its Achilles heel since I can recall, but there were a few glorious stretches where guys like Diduck and Baron were around as depth guys. This season had some size and depth, which was nice for a change. 
 

Anyways, great posts and look forward to reading more from you and IBatch in these threads. 

[Kevin Biestra]

14 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Disagree about Jovo.

He was an adventure with the puck while walking the puck on the offensive blue line. He was definitely bolder with the puck, with predictable turnover results. 
 

Jovo with the puck was almost as nerve racking as Luongo. 
 

By far, even more so than our friend Ibatch, your posts in these threads have been my favourite reads and those which I can identify with. 
 

Speaking of the D, remember Plasvic, Glynn and all the pylons they regularly dressed? You made mention about this franchise’s reliance on incredibly shallow and weak Dcores. So true. 
 

Once Jovo was here, Baron etc came and we had a big, rugged and skilled D. Then Minny embarrassed us thanks to the worst Canuck goalie basket case ever, Cloutier. Man, I hated him as a Canuck. Ticking time bomb that you just know was about to throw the game away. 
 

The Canucks were out gunned by the Colorado types of the day. They were kind of like Calgary that way. Whenever they got good, Edmonton was there, or LA or whatever.
 

The Canucks D has been its Achilles heel since I can recall, but there were a few glorious stretches where guys like Diduck and Baron were around as depth guys. This season had some size and depth, which was nice for a change. 
 

Anyways, great posts and look forward to reading more from you and IBatch in these threads. 

 

Cheers man.

 

 

I was just going by the numbers with the Jovo Norris claim.  I think he was 6th place for the Norris two years in a row (according the research of our esteemed colleague AJ).

 

Hah, I remember when Glynn was in the lineup there were articles about how he was battling slow metabolism and had a lousy physique for a hockey player.  Still, I didn't mind him as a #6 guy.

 

Our 94 D-corps has to be the gold standard.  Plavsic, Dirk and Glynn unable to crack the lineup, Dirk traded for a 4th rounder just because we didn't need him.  Jeff Brown would be getting some attention for this best defensemen talk as well if he wasn't such a scurvy dog.

 

Yeah, the Canucks with Cloutier in net were just a sparring partner for Forsberg and Roy and the Avalanche.  Those 80s Flames did have their day in 86 and 89 though.  They were still good enough that they only needed to see a speck of daylight through Edmonton's armor if it ever appeared.  Ric Nattress and Peplinski as depth guys.  Paul Reinhart not even the best defenseman on the team and, jeez, perhaps even THIRD best.  A team with Al MacInnis, Gary Suter and Paul Reinhart on the blueline.  That is an embarrassment of riches.

 

Those three guys + Brad McCrimmon, Rob Ramage and Ric Nattress could be the best 6-man corps ever assembled.

 

Edited March 29, 2020 by Kevin Biestra

[189lb enforcers?]

4 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

The Linden (or Smyl) of defensemen is a great way to describe him.  He is one of a handful of players that - when I'm contemplating "greatest Canuck" - rises a bit above his statistics in the way he captured the heart of the city and bled Canuck colors.  Linden, Ronning, Brodeur, Smyl, Tiger, Odjick.  Snepsts.

 

 

A few players have transcended the Canucks sweater to become Canuck Greats. 
 

Gino &^@#ing Odjick, is a Canucks Great.

Harold and Tiger, both Legends. 
Ronning and his patterned button-hook along the half wall, was larger than life while a Canuck too. 
 

When I was a kid, Murzyn gave me his stick after a practice in the Okanagan because I went right to the bench to tell him that I was also a Dman and wanted to play tough like him.
 

Made my day when he did that. Kills me when I see players walk in and out of the tunnels, etc, and not touch the kids. Bure and Kes were guys who didn’t do enough of that. The guys you mentioned would drink in the bars with you, well not me, I was a minor, but...

[189lb enforcers?]

Gino, Gino Gino!

 

If you were there, you know what is left unsaid here and know what to do. 

[IBatch]

2 hours ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Disagree about Jovo.

He was an adventure with the puck while walking the puck on the offensive blue line. He was definitely bolder with the puck, with predictable turnover results. 
 

Jovo with the puck was almost as nerve racking as Luongo. 
 

By far, even more so than our friend Ibatch, your posts in these threads have been my favourite reads and those which I can identify with. 
 

Speaking of the D, remember Plasvic, Glynn and all the pylons they regularly dressed? You made mention about this franchise’s reliance on incredibly shallow and weak Dcores. So true. 
 

Once Jovo was here, Baron etc came and we had a big, rugged and skilled D. Then Minny embarrassed us thanks to the worst Canuck goalie basket case ever, Cloutier. Man, I hated him as a Canuck. Ticking time bomb that you just know was about to throw the game away. 
 

The Canucks were out gunned by the Colorado types of the day. They were kind of like Calgary that way. Whenever they got good, Edmonton was there, or LA or whatever.
 

The Canucks D has been its Achilles heel since I can recall, but there were a few glorious stretches where guys like Diduck and Baron were around as depth guys. This season had some size and depth, which was nice for a change. 
 

Anyways, great posts and look forward to reading more from you and IBatch in these threads. 

Plavsic .... i used to think Aucion was the second coming when he first came in - man did he eventually turn things around (and owns a record too - almost a league wide one - remember what it was?).  Hedican was also prone to gaffs but could skate so well often made up for them - both those guys went on to have very respectable careers.  Dirk was a big big Kelowna boy if i remember correctly - that was one super sized defense we had back then.  I really like that you brought up our defense as an Achilles heel - 94 and 2011 we had some great all-around guys right through the line-up - and for the first time since Jovo was here im excited about our prospects of finally getting a winner (Norris caliber, future HHOF etc) guy in Hughes.   Ohlund might have been the guy if it wasnt for that freak accident in Japan almost losing an eye - he was soooo good right from the start - played like a seasoned vet his first year, its one of those moments that goes on the pile of crap we as Canuck fans have had to endure.   At some point the tide has to go our way - law of averages or Hockey gods or karma or something...thing is under the cap and with what we have on the team now and in the pool i definitely have my fingers crossed that we don't waste such a great oppurtunity in Hughes by surrounding him with mediocre guys.   Imagine Hughes bumping one guy out in 2011...and being a five year pro by then.   IF we can match the defense of either the prime Linden or Sedin years and add prime Hughes on top - instead defense would be a strength for sure.   Glad youve mentioned Baron too.  He was like Butcher 2.0 for me - solid in his own end and tough as nails - less pugilence of course.   The Strangler.  Trip down memory lane has been cathartic given the times - thanks for adding to the discussion always appreciate your viewpoint.   

[Kevin Biestra]

4 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Plavsic .... i used to think Aucion was the second coming when he first came in - man did he eventually turn things around (and owns a record too - almost a league wide one - remember what it was?).  Hedican was also prone to gaffs but could skate so well often made up for them - both those guys went on to have very respectable careers.  Dirk was a big big Kelowna boy if i remember correctly - that was one super sized defense we had back then.  I really like that you brought up our defense as an Achilles heel - 94 and 2011 we had some great all-around guys right through the line-up - and for the first time since Jovo was here im excited about our prospects of finally getting a winner (Norris caliber, future HHOF etc) guy in Hughes.   Ohlund might have been the guy if it wasnt for that freak accident in Japan almost losing an eye - he was soooo good right from the start - played like a seasoned vet his first year, its one of those moments that goes on the pile of crap we as Canuck fans have had to endure.   At some point the tide has to go our way - law of averages or Hockey gods or karma or something...thing is under the cap and with what we have on the team now and in the pool i definitely have my fingers crossed that we don't waste such a great oppurtunity in Hughes by surrounding him with mediocre guys.   Imagine Hughes bumping one guy out in 2011...and being a five year pro by then.   IF we can match the defense of either the prime Linden or Sedin years and add prime Hughes on top - instead defense would be a strength for sure.   Glad youve mentioned Baron too.  He was like Butcher 2.0 for me - solid in his own end and tough as nails - less pugilence of course.   The Strangler.  Trip down memory lane has been cathartic given the times - thanks for adding to the discussion always appreciate your viewpoint.   

 

Aucoin...PPG in a season I think.

 

What I remember about him is that he scored in his first regular season game and his first playoff game.

[-AJ-]

9 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Aucoin...PPG in a season I think.

 

What I remember about him is that he scored in his first regular season game and his first playoff game.

@IBatch

In 1998-99 with VAN, Aucoin scored 18 PPG, which at the time tied Denis Potvin for the record among defensemen. In 2006-07, Sheldon Souray beat them both with 19 PPG. Aucoin, of course, still has that as a record for the Canucks--the next closest to him was Rick Lanz with 14 PPG in 1983-84. Aucoin is also the only Canuck defenseman to ever have 20 or more goals in a season (23 goals in 1998-99), though Doug Halward came close with 19 in 1982-83.

 

If you count weird records, Aucoin does have the NHL record for the largest positive difference between goals and assists for a defenseman at 12 more goals than assists in 1998-99 (23 goals, 11 assists, 34 points).

[Kevin Biestra]

3 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

@IBatch

In 1998-99 with VAN, Aucoin scored 18 PPG, which at the time tied Denis Potvin for the record among defensemen. In 2006-07, Sheldon Souray beat them both with 19 PPG. Aucoin, of course, still has that as a record for the Canucks--the next closest to him was Rick Lanz with 14 PPG in 1983-84. Aucoin is also the only Canuck defenseman to ever have 20 or more goals in a season (23 goals in 1998-99), though Doug Halward came close with 19 in 1982-83.

 

If you count weird records, Aucoin does have the NHL record for the largest positive difference between goals and assists for a defenseman at 12 more goals than assists in 1998-99 (23 goals, 11 assists, 34 points).

 

That gives our first 40 goal scorer a run...  Ron Sedlbauer, 40 goals, 16 assists.

[IBatch]

6 hours ago, Master Mind said:

It is quite curious how Edler is getting this many votes. Perhaps because he's the only one in the poll currently on the Canucks? He's done a lot for the franchise, but has never been a star player. I would think a top 20 placement is appropriate being the leader in D points, but not top 10.

 

I would imagine Kesler would have been voted in already if his time in Vancouver ended on a different note. 40 goal Selke winners don't come by very often.

 

I'd have Kesler, Ohlund, and Bertuzzi as my next 3.

Thats exactly how I have them too - but voting for Ohlund just because he has a chance to beat out Edler - just like I voted for Gradin last time, I have him actually after Kesler, Ohlund and Bertuzzi but ahead of Edler.   Edlers not a star, not even a number one on a lot of teams during his career here - longevity does matter for sure.  But in that case where's the Snespts?   Nominated him a few rounds ago but didnt see that getting much traction - if i can influence a few guys to re-consider where Edler should go its definitely not in the top ten.  Over actual stars we've had for their best years - or obviously better defenseman that also played significant time with us.  Like saying Recchi is better then Bossy because he played longer and got more points.   Actually bad comparison.   More like saying Edler is our best or greatest all time defenseman - when books have been written on this very site questioning whether he would be a number one defenseman on most teams and not a solid second pairing guy on good teams.   Same old same old...we have had some decent number ones before - and also some excellent defensive defenseman that transcended and became fan favourites...yet Edler is still our first up.

[IBatch]

19 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Aucoin...PPG in a season I think.

 

What I remember about him is that he scored in his first regular season game and his first playoff game.

Yep.  As an aside you know whos not in the record books for PPG - any player any team?  Not even in the top fifty.  Makes you wonder if that will be considered when Ovi is done considering what percentage of his goals are scored on the power play, and how many shots he takes each season...

[Kevin Biestra]

10 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Yep.  As an aside you know whos not in the record books for PPG - any player any team?  Not even in the top fifty.  Makes you wonder if that will be considered when Ovi is done considering what percentage of his goals are scored on the power play, and how many shots he takes each season...

 

Not sure what you're getting at...  Crosby?  Wayne scored a pretty small % of his goals on the PP.

[Kevin Biestra]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

Edlers not a star, not even a number one on a lot of teams during his career here - longevity does matter for sure.  But in that case where's the Snespts?   Nominated him a few rounds ago but didnt see that getting much traction...

 

When the Canucks reacquired Snepsts in 1988/89 it is the only thing I've seen that was comparable in any way to reacquiring Linden.  The response in the city was similar.  "He's home."

Edited March 30, 2020 by Kevin Biestra