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Fred65

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11 hours ago, theo5789 said:

Weisbrod was hired days after the draft. Is it a coincidence that Boston wanted him and yet Calgary snagged him and hired the guy in charge of collegiate scouting? We will never know, but it's interesting timing.

 

Jankowski was also from college, so it's probably correct that he was likely a pick from Weisbrod, but it's not like they missed out on a gem around that 21st overall pick. That was a relatively weak 1st round that year and he's been a regular for them the last few seasons. It's made to seem as if he's far more atrocious of a player than he really is.

that was a brutal draft

the only forward to outscore Jankowski in the next 29 picks is Brock McGinn

the draft included Yak, G Reinhart,Pouliot, Trouba and Gaunce, oh and Liepsic

has NHL.com done the redraft?

Jankowski might move up haha

 

Edited by lmm
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So is it fair to say that Brackett is as good as gone ???? or is  it just media making up stories without foundation etc etc. Here's the question who is going to rush in and  take over the Brackett position knowing he's in a lame ass subservient role. where he needs to suck up and acquiesce at every turn, well!! that will be Bracketts replacement. I feel sorry for who ever it is because sure as Hell he ain't coming out of this with his character in tact.

 

Maybe Benning can sell programs on game days too  :lol::lol: 

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3 minutes ago, lmm said:

that was a brutal draft

the only forward to outscore Jankowski in the next 29 picks is Brock McGinn

the draft included Yak, G Reinhart,Pouliot, Trouba and Gaunce

has NHL.com done the redraft?

Jankowski might move up haha

 

Jankowski was a terrible pick looking at the way the Flames's draft played out. There were rumblings that he was a riser in the draft and there were many people talking about his potential. He was a fairly raw prospect on the other hand and consensus was that he would need to spend at least 3-4 years in college. In general you don't want to draft with your 1st round pick a forward that is that projected to be 3-4 years from now a player. The Flames also traded down from #14, passing on Girgensons, Ceci, Wilson, Hertl, Teravainen, Vasilevsky and Laughton. Weisbrod thinking Jankowski was Nieuwendyk was ridiculous, people were mocking that quote as soon as it came out. It was just laughable. The Flames under Feaster and Weisbrod were a comedy duo of mismanagement.

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2 minutes ago, Toews said:

Jankowski was a terrible pick looking at the way the Flames's draft played out. There were rumblings that he was a riser in the draft and there were many people talking about his potential. He was a fairly raw prospect on the other hand and consensus was that he would need to spend at least 3-4 years in college. In general you don't want to draft with your 1st round pick a forward that is that projected to be 3-4 years from now a player. The Flames also traded down from #14, passing on Girgensons, Ceci, Wilson, Hertl, Teravainen, Vasilevsky and Laughton. Weisbrod thinking Jankowski was Nieuwendyk was ridiculous, people were mocking that quote as soon as it came out. It was just laughable. The Flames under Feaster and Weisbrod were a comedy duo of mismanagement.

I remember at the time Jankowski was completely off the board and most analyst laughed. Last year as a 25 year old he played in 56 games and score 5 goals and 2 assists,truly a display of  1st round selection, a player for the future, 

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6 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

So is it fair to say that Brackett is as good as gone ???? or is  it just media making up stories without foundation etc etc. Here's the question who is going to rush in and  take over the Brackett position knowing he's in a lame ass subservient role. where he needs to suck up and acquiesce at every turn, well!! that's will be Bracketts replacement. I feel sorry for who ever it is because sure as Hell he ain't coming out of this with his character in tact.

 

Maybe Benning can sell programs on game days too  :lol::lol: 

This is my feeling as well.

For those of us who have watched in amazement while this team has imploded in the past, a repeat seems very possible.

But the rah rah guys say, "No way! Jim has too much character"

And I do agree with them that one guy should not be bigger than the team.

But look back at the Quinn era, he is still my favorite Canuck executive, but it was under his watch that Larionov was let walk, and the Gretzky, Bure and Messier fiascos happened.

Jim and Pat are similar, Pat was better in front of the mic, (but he was not Brian Burke, never met a mic he didn't like, moved into showbusiness), kind of 'old school' and both seem(ed) to want to leave their position. Pat kept trying to replace himself as coach and move on to GM and/or President of the Hockey/Basketball empire, while Jim want to leave the GM duties to someone else. Give Pat credit, he did made GM(now Rogers) arena which was instumental in bringing the Grizzlies to town, but the hockey team suffered and the Griffiths could no longer afford to retain the ownership. JIm has made some good moves and some bad ones, but will the Canucks be short on GM while he returns to scouting?

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1 hour ago, Toews said:

I don't believe that the Juolevi pick should be held against anybody. No one could have predicted the injuries he would suffer. Keep in mind that the Canucks had regarded PLD very highly at the time but the Jackets took him and it looks like an excellent pick. We were sorely in need for centers & defenseman. Scouting is a collaborative effort, its the staff that is tasked with coming up with the draft board. GMs do get a ton of say with top picks but lower picks are usually just taken off the board. GMs shouldn't be investing too much time in scouting as they have other duties to fulfill as well. A GM has to delegate and trust scouts to do their job as they will be the eyes and ears of the process. 

 

To me Linden's words about Brackett hold significance, it seems to indicate to me that he has an excellent eye and replacing him will be a tough challenge. 

I 100% agree that no picks are pinned (success or failure) to one single person. However if you follow this thread, you clearly see many people do not share this view. I believe that it is also a collaborative effort. Many are of the belief that if it ain't broke, don't fix it and that's why they feel it's a mistake to let Brackett walk. As it stands, Benning wants to keep Brackett and has extended him an offer, so he clearly values what he brings to the table. So sure Benning (and Weisbrod) want to be more involved in the scouting process (which is their background and thus likely their strengths), but it is Brackett that wants to walk away unless he gets more reign. It is not like Benning and crew weren't involved before, but they feel they have something to contribute here as well. This group has boosted our prospect pool together, but if Brackett wants out, I don't think it'll cripple us especially when considering that the general notion is that Brackett has a good record of college prospects and both Benning and Weisbrod have their connections in that area as well.

 

Benning promoted Gear to help with those GM duties. A lot of critics have complained about our cap issues and he has brought in help in this area. This isn't to say that Benning is taking over the scouting department though and he certainly does trust his scouts and such and thus why he always references the picks as "we" got them. He knows it's a team effort as he was a scout himself, but he doesn't want to take himself out of that equation either.

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38 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

So is it fair to say that Brackett is as good as gone ???? or is  it just media making up stories without foundation etc etc. Here's the question who is going to rush in and  take over the Brackett position knowing he's in a lame ass subservient role. where he needs to suck up and acquiesce at every turn, well!! that will be Bracketts replacement. I feel sorry for who ever it is because sure as Hell he ain't coming out of this with his character in tact.

 

Maybe Benning can sell programs on game days too  :lol::lol: 

Benning wants someone that wants to collaborate. He is perfectly fine with what Brackett brings and thus is trying to retain him. Sounds like Brackett is the one that doesn't want to collaborate. Not like Benning doesn't have any experience there or anything.

 

If Brackett isn't interested in having Benning involved (in which he was and thus part of the success in our drafting rather than solely on Brackett), then he is in his right to try a new team willing to give him that. This doesn't take away from our drafting necessarily and seems to be unreasonable to jump to that conclusion. The next person will simply want to be a team player and respect higher management and will get the same respect back. Much like how things are run through this organization under Benning. Building character amongst this organization has actually been a strong point.

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17 minutes ago, Toews said:

Jankowski was a terrible pick looking at the way the Flames's draft played out. There were rumblings that he was a riser in the draft and there were many people talking about his potential. He was a fairly raw prospect on the other hand and consensus was that he would need to spend at least 3-4 years in college. In general you don't want to draft with your 1st round pick a forward that is that projected to be 3-4 years from now a player. The Flames also traded down from #14, passing on Girgensons, Ceci, Wilson, Hertl, Teravainen, Vasilevsky and Laughton. Weisbrod thinking Jankowski was Nieuwendyk was ridiculous, people were mocking that quote as soon as it came out. It was just laughable. The Flames under Feaster and Weisbrod were a comedy duo of mismanagement.

just to be clear, I am not in favour of John Wiesbrod

did you miss the haha

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38 minutes ago, Toews said:

Jankowski was a terrible pick looking at the way the Flames's draft played out. There were rumblings that he was a riser in the draft and there were many people talking about his potential. He was a fairly raw prospect on the other hand and consensus was that he would need to spend at least 3-4 years in college. In general you don't want to draft with your 1st round pick a forward that is that projected to be 3-4 years from now a player. The Flames also traded down from #14, passing on Girgensons, Ceci, Wilson, Hertl, Teravainen, Vasilevsky and Laughton. Weisbrod thinking Jankowski was Nieuwendyk was ridiculous, people were mocking that quote as soon as it came out. It was just laughable. The Flames under Feaster and Weisbrod were a comedy duo of mismanagement.

Weisbrod didn't exactly win alot of fans in Orlando when he was a NBA GM.  At least he's consistantly mediocre across major league sports.:lol:

 

Seriously, he's like the guy at work he generally gets promoted while other guys 'take the fall'.  I think we're all familiar with those types of co-workers.  Some guys just excell at schmoozing with upper management.

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14 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

Benning wants someone that wants to collaborate. He is perfectly fine with what Brackett brings and thus is trying to retain him. Sounds like Brackett is the one that doesn't want to collaborate. Not like Benning doesn't have any experience there or anything.

 

If Brackett isn't interested in having Benning involved (in which he was and thus part of the success in our drafting rather than solely on Brackett), then he is in his right to try a new team willing to give him that. This doesn't take away from our drafting necessarily and seems to be unreasonable to jump to that conclusion. The next person will simply want to be a team player and respect higher management and will get the same respect back. Much like how things are run through this organization under Benning. Building character amongst this organization has actually been a strong point.

That is quite the inventive take that doesn’t square with anything that is being reported from various independent  sources around the league.

 

The reports are that the contract offer was for a shorter term than his last one, no raise, and a lessening of responsibility/authority demotion.  There are also a number of reports that it was a take it or leave it offer and no discussion has happened since. Benning has publicly said that he wants himself and Weisbrod to be more involved in amateur scouting. 

 

All that would be fine if we didn’t know the context.  Bracket’s department has been the most successful in the entire organization by a landslide.  Weisbrod has been in that role in other organizations and been objectively terrible.  There have been a steady stream of bodies before Brackett... even before the Canucks of people who offered differing opinions.

 

The common variable in the disorganization has been Weisbrod.  Will it surprise anyone if he gets announced as overseeing the amateur scouting department as soon as Brackett’s contract is officially over.

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51 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

I 100% agree that no picks are pinned (success or failure) to one single person. However if you follow this thread, you clearly see many people do not share this view. I believe that it is also a collaborative effort. Many are of the belief that if it ain't broke, don't fix it and that's why they feel it's a mistake to let Brackett walk. As it stands, Benning wants to keep Brackett and has extended him an offer, so he clearly values what he brings to the table. So sure Benning (and Weisbrod) want to be more involved in the scouting process (which is their background and thus likely their strengths), but it is Brackett that wants to walk away unless he gets more reign. It is not like Benning and crew weren't involved before, but they feel they have something to contribute here as well. This group has boosted our prospect pool together, but if Brackett wants out, I don't think it'll cripple us especially when considering that the general notion is that Brackett has a good record of college prospects and both Benning and Weisbrod have their connections in that area as well.

 

Benning promoted Gear to help with those GM duties. A lot of critics have complained about our cap issues and he has brought in help in this area. This isn't to say that Benning is taking over the scouting department though and he certainly does trust his scouts and such and thus why he always references the picks as "we" got them. He knows it's a team effort as he was a scout himself, but he doesn't want to take himself out of that equation either.

If Gear has been involved for 4 years, doesn't that mean he was involved with Loui, Sutter, Beagle, Schaller, Boeser, Roussell, Myers

It will be interesting to see if he can and will make changes to the Canucks overpaying/overterm situation

I definitely side with the Cult of Judd, haha, but have no info on Gear pro or con.

Gear is like a ghost in all this.

Maybe Gear is the Quinn Petey of hockey management, waiting to make great strides, maybe he is not.

Chris Gear is the great unknown

 

 

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2 hours ago, Fred65 said:

Better still simply stop reading your nonsense :lol:

All this simply because you made a mistake, eh? 

 

Fwiw, your narcissist comment towards me from an earlier post of yours is now coming off as projection, as a clear sign of being strong on the narcissist scale is not being able to admit fault. 

 

But, please, keep going. I'll get some more popcorn.

 

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33 minutes ago, lmm said:

If Gear has been involved for 4 years, doesn't that mean he was involved with Loui, Sutter, Beagle, Schaller, Boeser, Roussell, Myers

It will be interesting to see if he can and will make changes to the Canucks overpaying/overterm situation

I definitely side with the Cult of Judd, haha, but have no info on Gear pro or con.

Gear is like a ghost in all this.

Maybe Gear is the Quinn Petey of hockey management, waiting to make great strides, maybe he is not.

Chris Gear is the great unknown

 

 

It's hard to know who is involved in what (which is also why it seems silly to point all the success to Brackett for the good picks and the poor ones on Benning/Weisbrod as some have done). There are different mandates every season. Despite the critics of our cap, I think our cap "problems" are blown out of proportion. Just because a player is signed at a certain cap that they are comfortable with is not reflective on the guy that signed them if said player doesn't perform up to task. It's about making the cap work with what you've got. Everyone has their opinions on who's overpaid or not, but as long as the cap is managed and we don't lose anyone of significance or be forced into a cap dump situation losing a major asset, then the capologist has done their job (which is currently where we are at). I believe all of our RFA signings have been top notch (including Boeser). We've had some UFA "misses", but it was because players haven't played up to par (and really IMO that's only LE and Gagner I suppose). Sutter and Baertschi were results of unexpected injuries slowing them down. Beagle, Roussel, Myers have been fine and Schaller was never really an issue IMO.

 

The main thing is Gear contributes to a "weak" area for Benning, so he's added that support. Benning and even Weisbrod have scouting experience in which overlaps what Brackett does. It's obvious that Benning and Weisbrod have been involved in the scouting aspect in some way, so they should be given credit as well for the success (we just don't know who was involved with what, but I have tried to connect some dots in an earlier post).

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41 minutes ago, Jester13 said:

All this simply because you made a mistake, eh? 

 

Fwiw, your narcissist comment towards me from an earlier post of yours is now coming off as projection, as a clear sign of being strong on the narcissist scale is not being able to admit fault. 

 

But, please, keep going. I'll get some more popcorn.

 

If you're making some popcorn for me, could you be sure to put some butter on it :lol:

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1 hour ago, Provost said:

That is quite the inventive take that doesn’t square with anything that is being reported from various independent  sources around the league.

 

The reports are that the contract offer was for a shorter term than his last one, no raise, and a lessening of responsibility/authority demotion.  There are also a number of reports that it was a take it or leave it offer and no discussion has happened since. Benning has publicly said that he wants himself and Weisbrod to be more involved in amateur scouting. 

 

All that would be fine if we didn’t know the context.  Bracket’s department has been the most successful in the entire organization by a landslide.  Weisbrod has been in that role in other organizations and been objectively terrible.  There have been a steady stream of bodies before Brackett... even before the Canucks of people who offered differing opinions.

 

The common variable in the disorganization has been Weisbrod.  Will it surprise anyone if he gets announced as overseeing the amateur scouting department as soon as Brackett’s contract is officially over.

Weisbrod has been a scout and been assigned a bigger role in taking on a bigger region, but he's never been the director. Jankowski was really the only player that has known ties of Weisbrod being a big fan of and IMO while he hasn't been great, he hasn't been terrible either especially when looking at the others around him. It was a pretty poor draft year and many would have egg on their faces after that year.

 

If the contract offer was as terrible as it's made to believe, wouldn't Brackett be so offended that he could just quit and with the supposed demand for him, he would find a job in no time? If it was so set in stone that Brackett was getting demoted as suggested, I doubt he would've stayed this long unless he's being deceitful and trying to steal intel and resources here to bring to his new team. So this also does not add up to me as they said as far as things go, Brackett is still very involved. Benning could also fire him if he felt he wasn't doing his job, so clearly he was hoping that he would stay and values him and what he has done, but feels they simply can add even more to this group with their background and expertise. Just because they want to be more involved doesn't have to be that Brackett's role is diminished as this could free up more opportunity for him to branch out even further. The way that the media has portrayed the situation really doesn't jive with the whole respect culture that he's also preached publicly. Sounds like Benning wants him to stay, signs are pointing that Brackett wants to leave. But of course it's being portrayed as Benning pushing him out.

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Judd Brackett

I've been watching and covering the Canucks for many many years, I have never seen a scout like Judd Brackett get coverage like he has this season.

Vancouver has seen many big name GM’s, coaches and players fired and traded. A scout though? No scout has ever received this kind of attention in this market.

Social media plays a big part in how this has played out. Can you name the top scout in Edmonton, Calgary or Montreal?

You sure can in Vancouver.

An executive in the NHL : “Can not believe the press Brackett gets in Vancouver. You do not see this in other markets.”

You certainly do not.

Like any other scout, Brackett has made good picks and bad picks.

He has benefited from drafting very high the last few years and having high picks in the 30-40 range as well. Based on where he has been picking, he should have a good success rate. 

An NHL scout : “Despite picking high Judd has outperformed other head scouts who are also on rebuilding teams in my eyes.”

There are some in the hockey world though, who are not impressed with the way Brackett is leaking his story to the press. 

I am sure other teams are noticing this as well.

By the same token, if you hire a person to run a draft, let him run the draft.

The narrative that Benning and his sidekick John Weisbrod want more control at the draft is not going away.

This is not a good look on the Canucks. I can not remember a story like this when Pat Quinn, Brian Burke, Dave Nonis or Mike Gillis ran the team.

Quinn always trusted his head scout Mike Penny. Clearly that trust doesn't exist between Benning and Brackett.

It is very unlikely that the two sides will kiss and make up. In fact, some are beginning to think that Brackett won't make it to the NHL draft. However this ends up, there will be plenty of blame to go around on both sides.

The Canucks better have a good plan B if they let Brackett go because this story is not going away anytime soon.
 

 

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3 hours ago, lmm said:

This is my feeling as well.

For those of us who have watched in amazement while this team has imploded in the past, a repeat seems very possible.

But the rah rah guys say, "No way! Jim has too much character"

And I do agree with them that one guy should not be bigger than the team.

But look back at the Quinn era, he is still my favorite Canuck executive, but it was under his watch that Larionov was let walk, and the Gretzky, Bure and Messier fiascos happened.

Jim and Pat are similar, Pat was better in front of the mic, (but he was not Brian Burke, never met a mic he didn't like, moved into showbusiness), kind of 'old school' and both seem(ed) to want to leave their position. Pat kept trying to replace himself as coach and move on to GM and/or President of the Hockey/Basketball empire, while Jim want to leave the GM duties to someone else. Give Pat credit, he did made GM(now Rogers) arena which was instumental in bringing the Grizzlies to town, but the hockey team suffered and the Griffiths could no longer afford to retain the ownership. JIm has made some good moves and some bad ones, but will the Canucks be short on GM while he returns to scouting?

"under his watch that Larionov was let walk, "

 

That was due to the Canucks, if they re-signed Igor, would have to continue to send money back to the Russian team. Igor did not want anymore money going back to Russia so left to play elsewhere, so the deal to send money back lapsed.

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Just now, gurn said:

"under his watch that Larionov was let walk, "

 

That was due to the Canucks, if they re-signed Igor, would have to continue to send money back to the Russian team. Igor did not want anymore money going back to Russia so left to play elsewhere, so the deal to send money back lapsed.

I know that

Problem solving is part of the job

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2 hours ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Weisbrod didn't exactly win alot of fans in Orlando when he was a NBA GM.  At least he's consistantly mediocre across major league sports.:lol:

 

Seriously, he's like the guy at work he generally gets promoted while other guys 'take the fall'.  I think we're all familiar with those types of co-workers.  Some guys just excell at schmoozing with upper management.

Weisbrod wasn't endearing to fans as he was more of a hockey guy rather than a basketball guy and he's even admitted to that and re-signed from his position. However, the Orlando management clearly felt different and felt like he had done a good job and were surprised at his decision to leave, likely meaning they were hoping he would stay, and why not considering the team had improved from being a basement team. Who knows where the team could've gone had he stayed longer. He clearly had a longer term vision for the team considering he went with a high schooler in Dwight Howard over a safer pick in Okafor.

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