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Judd Brackett

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, mll said:

Calgary were set to pick 14th and had no 2nd round pick that draft.  They couldn't wait until the 3rd round as he was projected to go in the 2nd round.  They moved down to 21st though and got a 2nd round pick (42nd) for moving back.   42nd was probably too close to where he could have been picked by another team.   

 

 

Regardless, picking him 21st when he was ranked in the 40s is too much of a risk and a waste of a first round pick. That would be the equivalent to us picking someone like Egor Afanasyev with our 10th overall pick last year, who was ranked as high as 16th but as low as 59th. 
 

Jankowski was ranked as high as 14th, and that was Craig Button’s personal rankings. Everyone else had him going in the late 2nd - mid 3rd round. It isn’t far off that he would still be there at 42.

Edited by shiznak

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9 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

OK this Judd thing has now reached peak ridiculous. Now he's "super scout" Brackett, the seasons "best free agent"? This has become something thats now going to hurt Brackett, he can never live up to this. 

Shhhhhh.......not so loud! You're talking about the prospect whisperer! 

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Canucks fans: "Our drafting beyond the second round has been nothing special. Benning is overrated."

 

Also Canucks fans: "Brackett has done such an excellent job with getting the most out of our later picks. Why would Benning get rid of him?"

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2 hours ago, mll said:

 

 

 

Not going for a narrative and never implied that.  There's a reason Benning felt he deserved the promotion at the time.  Today Benning feels comfortable if they part ways.  Even Brackett talks of how it's a collaborative effort.  

 

wasn't trying to put that on you - I know from your posts you wouldn't do that kind of thing. Others, well.... some dude named Taj is their leader. 

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8 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

of course not. But 'super scout" I mean come on. Also Benning is supposed to be an idiot, just smart enough to promote Judd, but just stupid enough to ignore his recommendations, except for the 4 or 5 best guys that somehow Judd the Great managed to force Benning to pick? the whole narrative is just goofy. 

and yet it is the exact same narrative we heard when Benning was hired

How many times have you read "Benning will work his magic on draft day"?

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12 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

OK this Judd thing has now reached peak ridiculous. Now he's "super scout" Brackett, the seasons "best free agent"? This has become something thats now going to hurt Brackett, he can never live up to this. 

Sports Journalists in this city can kill any career..  their big city speculation gets passed back and forth to each other, turns it into Rumour,  creates lies as truths.

They should all go back to Toronto.

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4 hours ago, shiznak said:

Regardless, picking him 21st when he was ranked in the 40s is too much of a risk and a waste of a first round pick. That would be the equivalent to us picking someone like Egor Afanasyev with our 10th overall pick last year, who was ranked as high as 16th but as low as 59th. 
 

Jankowski was ranked as high as 14th, and that was Craig Button’s personal rankings. Everyone else had him going in the late 2nd - mid 3rd round. It isn’t far off that he would still be there at 42.

He may be there at 42, but what if he doesn't make it that far. There were 4 centers picked in between 21 and 42 and any of those teams could have considered Jankowski as well. They felt highly about him and he was a late riser (he had a final central scouting ranking of 43rd, but that was a jump from 74 prior, so who knows if he was still climbing on some boards). As I mentioned, if they felt highly about a player, you take them rather than miss out on them hoping they would fall (Weisbrod and Feaster felt others teams would've taken him in the 1st round if they didn't). They got their target player and added a 2nd round pick as well.

 

He's arguably the best player between 21 and 42 anyway (aside from Pearson), so it's not like they missed out on much had they picked someone else at 21st instead.

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1 hour ago, theo5789 said:

He may be there at 42, but what if he doesn't make it that far. There were 4 centers picked in between 21 and 42 and any of those teams could have considered Jankowski as well. They felt highly about him and he was a late riser (he had a final central scouting ranking of 43rd, but that was a jump from 74 prior, so who knows if he was still climbing on some boards). As I mentioned, if they felt highly about a player, you take them rather than miss out on them hoping they would fall (Weisbrod and Feaster felt others teams would've taken him in the 1st round if they didn't). They got their target player and added a 2nd round pick as well.

 

He's arguably the best player between 21 and 42 anyway (aside from Pearson), so it's not like they missed out on much had they picked someone else at 21st instead.

If he isn’t there then you move on to the next guy on your list. It isn’t like they were missing out on a rare talent. Everyone knew that Jankowski will probably need 4-5 years of development to maybe even get a shot at the NHL. He was a very raw prospect.
 

It’s the same situations, as if a prospect were to fall in his draft. Usually, GMs will just wait until their pick hoping the prospect falls into their lap (ie. Kole Lind).

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12 hours ago, Toews said:

Full autonomy? No. No one gets full autonomy at any job unless they are also signing the cheques. I don't believe that Brackett is naive enough to demand that.

 

I believe a GM of a NHL organization has a lot on his plate and should surround himself with people they can trust to the do jobs they have been assigned to do. If you can't trust someone then let them go and find a replacement.

 

In good organizations, employees are made to feel like they have some autonomy over their work. This makes the employee feel empowered and valued. If you have worked on a project for months and then all of a sudden your boss comes in says, sorry but I am throwing out all your work and we are just going to use what I came up with. You are going to be asking yourself, "WTF am I still doing here?".

The reports have been that Brackett wants full autonomy. 

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5 hours ago, shiznak said:

If he isn’t there then you move on to the next guy on your list. It isn’t like they were missing out on a rare talent. Everyone knew that Jankowski will probably need 4-5 years of development to maybe even get a shot at the NHL. He was a very raw prospect.
 

It’s the same situations, as if a prospect were to fall in his draft. Usually, GMs will just wait until their pick hoping the prospect falls into their lap (ie. Kole Lind).

With that mentality, would you have traded down to 8th overall in the Pettersson year and risk him being taken (and he likely would've gone 7th with the Rangers trading up)? Would you be satisfied simply to move on to the next player on your list? They felt highly about Jankowski and they knew that he was a raw prospects and felt that's why he was ranked low. He was a rapidly growing kid. He was 5'8 at one point and grew to 6'2 by the time of the draft and was 168lbs, and they felt once he filled out he would be something special and probably heard rumblings that another team would've taken him in the first round. I don't think it's the same situation as a faller because he was likely high on their list (but knew not to take him at 14th and thus traded down) and knew he was a raw prospect and possibly a hidden gem and was actually heading in the other direction and rising.

 

Like I mentioned, he is probably the 2nd best player after Pearson from 21 to 42, so it's not like they were too far off in their assessment. If someone did a re-draft, he probably is still a 1st round pick for that year, so again it's not even that big of a reach in hindsight either.

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Posted (edited)
49 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

With that mentality, would you have traded down to 8th overall in the Pettersson year and risk him being taken (and he likely would've gone 7th with the Rangers trading up)? Would you be satisfied simply to move on to the next player on your list? They felt highly about Jankowski and they knew that he was a raw prospects and felt that's why he was ranked low. He was a rapidly growing kid. He was 5'8 at one point and grew to 6'2 by the time of the draft and was 168lbs, and they felt once he filled out he would be something special and probably heard rumblings that another team would've taken him in the first round. I don't think it's the same situation as a faller because he was likely high on their list (but knew not to take him at 14th and thus traded down) and knew he was a raw prospect and possibly a hidden gem and was actually heading in the other direction and rising.

 

Like I mentioned, he is probably the 2nd best player after Pearson from 21 to 42, so it's not like they were too far off in their assessment. If someone did a re-draft, he probably is still a 1st round pick for that year, so again it's not even that big of a reach in hindsight either.

You’re comparing a guy who was projected to be picked between 7-10, that got picked 5th overall. To a guy that was projected to be picked 40-55, that got picked 21st. That’s a big stretch, if you ask me.

 

Even if he turned out to be the 2nd best player at that range. That’s a mood point. You simply don’t waste a first round pick,  just to go way off the draft board. Calgary might as well have traded their first round pick at the deadline for a rental player and push for a playoff spot.

Edited by shiznak

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2 hours ago, TheRealistOptimist said:

The reports have been that Brackett wants full autonomy. 

As I said I don't believe that. 

18 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

With that mentality, would you have traded down to 8th overall in the Pettersson year and risk him being taken (and he likely would've gone 7th with the Rangers trading up)? Would you be satisfied simply to move on to the next player on your list? They felt highly about Jankowski and they knew that he was a raw prospects and felt that's why he was ranked low.

Strawman. Jankowski isn't Pettersson. Anyone who had watched Petey did not scoff at him being taken at #5. Petey also had the numbers in Allsvenskan to back up his claim as one of the top prospects in the draft. 

18 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

He was a rapidly growing kid. He was 5'8 at one point and grew to 6'2 by the time of the draft and was 168lbs, and they felt once he filled out he would be something special and probably heard rumblings that another team would've taken him in the first round.

I believe that is the OP's point, who cares if he was taken? There were more than a few prospects in the draft with way more talent than Jankowski. The Flames under Feaster and Weisbrod were enamored with Jankowski to the point where they were willing to overlook his flaws. 

18 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

I don't think it's the same situation as a faller because he was likely high on their list (but knew not to take him at 14th and thus traded down) and knew he was a raw prospect and possibly a hidden gem and was actually heading in the other direction and rising.

I truly wonder where the Flames had Janko on their draft board. It seems to me like they just threw their draft board out of their window and fell in love with the idea of Jankowski being the next Nieuwendyk. 

18 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

Like I mentioned, he is probably the 2nd best player after Pearson from 21 to 42, so it's not like they were too far off in their assessment. If someone did a re-draft, he probably is still a 1st round pick for that year, so again it's not even that big of a reach in hindsight either.

Objectively speaking and not just out of hatred for the Flames, that is one of the dumbest draft decisions I have seen in quite some time. I was following the draft in real time and people were collectively going "WTF?" the moment the Flames traded down and selected Jankowski. It was absurd, when there are far better players available and you trade out of that spot to pick up a guy that will probably be an ok player in 3-4 years.

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Some of the rumblings which have been coming out are concerning if in fact they are true. Such as the canucks scouts wanted Larkin at our pick, but JB insisted and went with JV. And the big one which was that JB was all for Glass and was overruled by Linden for EP. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, shiznak said:

You’re comparing a guy who was projected to be picked between 7-10, that got picked 5th overall. To a guy that was projected to be picked 40-55, that got picked 21st. That’s a big stretch, if you ask me.

 

Even if he turned out to be the 2nd best player at that range. That’s a mood point. You simply don’t waste a first round pick,  just to go way off the draft board. Calgary might as well have traded their first round pick at the deadline for a rental player and push for a playoff spot.

They felt he was the BPA at that point and in hindsight, they weren't wrong. That why that point is relevant. It may have seem absurd at the time, but they assessed 1st round talent and he is likely a 1st round talent in a re-draft or at least very close, so in reality it wasn't a stretch. They could've let him slide and hoped for the best, but then another team would've potentially nabbed him and got that honour, while they could've picked a different player at the time that didn't work out anyway.

 

Not all teams go with the public rankings, teams have their own systems and go with their own risks. So as I mentioned, he was rising in the draft rapidly and while he was ranked in that range publicly, he could've still be rising by draft time and say a few teams had him ranked 30th or so, then it's as big of a reach. It starts becoming a crap shoot after the top half of the first round in most drafts anyway. They may have taken a larger leap than expected (and at least traded down and added a pick), but were they wrong? They knew he was a long term project and thinking about the long term future of the team rather than short term. 

 

EP was considered to be a few years away as well because of his size. While he had been putting up decent numbers in his draft year, I don't think most teams expected him to be as good as quickly as he has and playing at the weight he is and flourishing. I remember the initial reaction here when EP was drafted and people thought it was nuts as well.

 

I guess I'll ask you this, if we traded down to 8th and EP was selected 7th, would you be satisfied just taking the next player on your list?

Edited by theo5789
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11 hours ago, lmm said:

and yet it is the exact same narrative we heard when Benning was hired

How many times have you read "Benning will work his magic on draft day"?

many.

 

What Benning deserves credit for is getting the scouting team aligned. Thats allowed them to cut through individual BS and find some solid talent outside of the 1st round.

 

I have to wonder who these "scouting sources" are. There were some guys let go from the new scouting system, makes me wonder if there's some sour grapes going on here. 

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10 hours ago, SilentSam said:

Sports Journalists in this city can kill any career..  their big city speculation gets passed back and forth to each other, turns it into Rumour,  creates lies as truths.

They should all go back to Toronto.

yup. my guess is the clowns over at 1040 had the scouts Benning let go on speed dial. 

 

Benning will be fine. Whats too bad about all this is i think it has a chance of hurting Brackett's career, no one can live up to this hype and some GMs won't like how much got into the media. 

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11 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

yup. my guess is the clowns over at 1040 had the scouts Benning let go on speed dial. 

 

Benning will be fine. Whats too bad about all this is i think it has a chance of hurting Brackett's career, no one can live up to this hype and some GMs won't like how much got into the media. 

Saddest part is there is nothing actually quoted by Brackett, Benning or the Canuck org. Just a bunch of stuff, whipped up by the media in order to get clicks, views and listens.

As you say, there is a good chance Brackett's future is coloured by all this hype, and the guy seems to have had nothing to do with it.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Toews said:

Strawman. Jankowski isn't Pettersson. Anyone who had watched Petey did not scoff at him being taken at #5. Petey also had the numbers in Allsvenskan to back up his claim as one of the top prospects in the draft. 

I'm not comparing them as players. He was publicly ranked lower in a range where the top players are far more scouted and have more refined lists more knowingly where players would land. Yes Petey was making a name for himself and he became a riser as well and rightfully so. Many teams likely expected him to be a few years out while he filled out, but knew he had top 10 talent. When you're drafting that high, teams think more about immediate help rather than longer term projects with high potential where that is more the norm for bottom 3rd of the 1st round. There are different mentalities from where they were drafted, but at the end of the day both were players that were picked higher than they were ranked and as Benning suggested you just pick the player you want (based on whatever criteria is important to them) rather than risk losing them.

 

Quote

I believe that is the OP's point, who cares if he was taken? There were more than a few prospects in the draft with way more talent than Jankowski. The Flames under Feaster and Weisbrod were enamored with Jankowski to the point where they were willing to overlook his flaws. 

I truly wonder where the Flames had Janko on their draft board. It seems to me like they just threw their draft board out of their window and fell in love with the idea of Jankowski being the next Nieuwendyk. 

They certainly thought much more highly about him than likely most did, but felt that other teams would've taken him in the 1st round if they didn't. There were two other centers taken in the 1st after Jankowski and who knows who else would be had they been available and they simply moved on. It was the latter part of the 1st in a weak draft, most players have flaws there, they were looking more at potential of a rapidly growing centerman. If we had drafted him, the way he progressed would've been just fine and his draft spot has mostly been justified at this point anyway even if was a reach then, so hard to say they were "wrong" with that pick.

 

Quote

Objectively speaking and not just out of hatred for the Flames, that is one of the dumbest draft decisions I have seen in quite some time. I was following the draft in real time and people were collectively going "WTF?" the moment the Flames traded down and selected Jankowski. It was absurd, when there are far better players available and you trade out of that spot to pick up a guy that will probably be an ok player in 3-4 years.

People reacted similarly when we drafted Pettersson (of course there were some that didn't, but go back to his thread if you don't believe me). They didn't have the mentality that he would just be an okay player, they thought highly of him. And while they were wrong about the Nieuwendyk prediction, he was probably the best center in that range. Even at 14th, Girgensons hasn't done much, Hertl is good but not an NHL center, and Laughton hasn't really been much more impressive than Jankowski at that point. They targetted a player they liked, added a 2nd round pick and they were not far off with where they had picked Jankowski in hindsight. I think the pick has been justified at this point and I get why some would think it was crazy at the time, but their assessment seemed alright and they didn't lose out on much for the potential they were hoping for.

Edited by theo5789

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7 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

 were far off with where they had picked Jankowski in hindsight

NOT far off?

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