Guest Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 26 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said: Top teams in league build up the depth in all positions... only load up when the Cup is realistically attainable. Otherwise it should be draft and develop. Rinse and repeat. All playoff teams load up, not just the cup contenders. To illustrate my point, I will list you teams that gave up a top prospect or at least a 3rd round pick, and I will only list teams that did so after Christmas (so I will not include off-season deals, or early season deals). 2018-19 Vegas Knights Colorado Avalanche Boston Bruins San Jose Sharks Columbus Blue Jackets Winnipeg Jets Buffalo Sabres Dallas Stars Washington Capitals Nashville Predators Pittsburgh Penguins Toronto Maple Leafs So that's 12 teams that gave up either a great prospect or a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd round pick to get a roster player back that helped them that year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 1 hour ago, kingofsurrey said: It may become one very soon. Typical canucks luck. Load up for a possible playoff appearance only to find season may be cancelled. Canuck curse continues.... ? That's not a Canucks curse. That's a league-wide problem. In fact, it's worldwide. Blaming a world issue as a "Canucks curse" is nothing more than a typical entitlement issue in my opinion. I get it. This is a Canucks forum so the world revolves around the Canucks here, but it's just not reality at the end of the day. The way the season has gone, it's silly to blame ANY of the trades for players that happened at the deadline, no matter what team. As a team, you need to plan for the season finishing properly since almost every other season (if not all) has done just that. Blame the pandemic, not Benning, or "Canucks luck" or anything else like that. Blame the pandemic because that's ultimately what has caused all of this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 1 hour ago, kingofsurrey said: Top teams in league build up the depth in all positions... only load up when the Cup is realistically attainable. Otherwise it should be draft and develop. Rinse and repeat. 8th place teams can get to the finals and even possibly win a Cup. On the other hand, a record breaking Tampa team was swept last year when everyone thought they should just be handed the Cup. You never know once you're in the playoffs. You want to peak when the playoffs roll around and it doesn't matter if you look like a contender the rest of the year. You draft (make picks in any rounds) and develop (which IMO is just as important as where you're picking which is why finding the right players that will push themselves is valuable) all the time whether you're a contender or not. You don't give up thinking you won't win, you'll never win anything with that attitude and mentality. The GM tries to keep the team from having the giving up mentality, and Benning knew this was possible with the Boeser injury news that he must've known and struck a trade before announcing the bad news. The Markstrom injury was another hit that happened after the fact, but we quickly made a deal for Domingue for some veteran experience behind Demko. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 2 hours ago, VancouverHabitant said: All playoff teams load up, not just the cup contenders. To illustrate my point, I will list you teams that gave up a top prospect or at least a 3rd round pick, and I will only list teams that did so after Christmas (so I will not include off-season deals, or early season deals). 2018-19 Vegas Knights Colorado Avalanche Boston Bruins San Jose Sharks Columbus Blue Jackets Winnipeg Jets Buffalo Sabres Dallas Stars Washington Capitals Nashville Predators Pittsburgh Penguins Toronto Maple Leafs So that's 12 teams that gave up either a great prospect or a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd round pick to get a roster player back that helped them that year. How many gave up a great prospect, a 2nd and a 3rd though. Do you have that stat ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNucks1 Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 5 hours ago, kingofsurrey said: How many gave up a great prospect, a 2nd and a 3rd though. Do you have that stat ? tampa bay gave up a ton. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, kingofsurrey said: How many gave up a great prospect, a 2nd and a 3rd though. Do you have that stat ? As TNucks said, Tampa Bay paid a lot for rentals. Tampa Bay literally gave up a 1st round pick and Nolan Foote for Coleman, who I'd say isn't nearly as good as Toffoli. Even crazier was Carolina. They were literally all in this year trading for Vatanen AND Trochek. They gave up a lot... and I mean a lot.... Islanders traded away 3 picks (including a 1st) for Pageau. So the trade for Toffoli here was pretty much the norm. If anything, our trade actually has looked pretty good so far. Carolina didn't really change in standings much (they're still just barely hanging onto a playoff spot) and the Islanders aren't even in a playoff spot at the moment. Edited April 27, 2020 by The Lock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 11 minutes ago, TNucks1 said: tampa bay gave up a ton. First in the Atlantic 2 yrs running... not a good comparison to the Nucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNucks1 Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 1 minute ago, kingofsurrey said: First in the Atlantic 2 yrs running... not a good comparison to the Nucks. you didnt say a good comparison.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 Just now, kingofsurrey said: First in the Atlantic 2 yrs running... not a good comparison to the Nucks. That's what you're going with? A trade is a trade in terms of value. Not to mention, I just gave you other example in comparable standings with the Canucks anyway. What do you have against all of this? The fact that Madden's gone? Did you have a man crush or something? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 (edited) 1 minute ago, The Lock said: That's what you're going with? A trade is a trade in terms of value. Not to mention, I just gave you other example in comparable standings with the Canucks anyway. What do you have against all of this? The fact that Madden's gone? Did you have a man crush or something? I am not a fan of bubble teams loading up / selling off their future only to go 0-4 in a playoff round. Thats sacrificing the future of the club for 2 home games. Canucks this year were a pretty weak team with above average goaltending. That is not a club going to go deep in the playoffs. Edited April 27, 2020 by kingofsurrey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 Just now, kingofsurrey said: I am not a fan of bubble teams loading up / selling off their future only to go 0-4 in a playoff round. Thats sacrificing the future of the club for 2 home games. So basically you are stating this on the assumption we'd go out 0-4.... so nothing that's even happened yet as of this year.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 Just now, The Lock said: So basically you are stating this on the assumption we'd go out 0-4.... so nothing that's even happened yet as of this year.... Canucks were getting out played most games later on this season. Not a good sign of a team going to do well in the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 Just now, kingofsurrey said: Canucks were getting out played most games later on this season. Not a good sign of a team going to do well in the playoffs. Let me repeat what I just said.... So basically you are stating this on the assumption we'd go out 0-4.... so nothing that's even happened yet as of this year.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 Just now, The Lock said: Let me repeat what I just said.... So basically you are stating this on the assumption we'd go out 0-4.... so nothing that's even happened yet as of this year.... Last time i checked the season is put on hold. Of course i am posting my opinion. You did realize that the season is on hold right now.. right ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 Just now, kingofsurrey said: Last time i checked the season is put on hold. Of course i am posting my opinion. You did realize that the season is on hold right now.. right ? Bingo. Meaning... So basically you are stating this on the assumption we'd go out 0-4.... so nothing that's even happened yet as of this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 (edited) And no. I'm not trying to troll. It's literally my point that the season's on hold and that there's no point in assuming what you're assuming. It's chicken little basically. That's all it is. Edited April 27, 2020 by The Lock 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filthycanuck Posted April 28, 2020 Share Posted April 28, 2020 On 4/26/2020 at 10:55 AM, kingofsurrey said: Top teams in league build up the depth in all positions... only load up when the Cup is realistically attainable. Otherwise it should be draft and develop. Rinse and repeat. Nope, Washington Capitals had all the depth in the world the last decade and had 1 cup to show for it. Sharks were stacked for almost 15 years in every position, no cup to show for it, while the Blues who luckily stumbled on a goalie was on a roster that was destined for a lottery pick, went on to win the cup. Columbus, Florida, have been drafting and developing the last decade, not even a single Eastern final for them. Ive noticed that its health, how hot the team is going to the playoffs, with a little bit of fortune is what wins cups sad to say but theres really no blueprint. Its either your time or its not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filthycanuck Posted April 28, 2020 Share Posted April 28, 2020 On 4/26/2020 at 8:26 PM, The Lock said: As TNucks said, Tampa Bay paid a lot for rentals. Tampa Bay literally gave up a 1st round pick and Nolan Foote for Coleman, who I'd say isn't nearly as good as Toffoli. Even crazier was Carolina. They were literally all in this year trading for Vatanen AND Trochek. They gave up a lot... and I mean a lot.... Islanders traded away 3 picks (including a 1st) for Pageau. So the trade for Toffoli here was pretty much the norm. If anything, our trade actually has looked pretty good so far. Carolina didn't really change in standings much (they're still just barely hanging onto a playoff spot) and the Islanders aren't even in a playoff spot at the moment. People have this assumption that we need all our prospects to be intact to have that magical run to the playoffs, thats not the case. No one can predict the future, lets just say Madden was a 90 pt player next year, but Marky, EP40 or whoever is injured going to the playoffs? Is our chances really that much better? We can develop all the prospects we want, have multiple 1st rounders, you still need an invitation to get to the dance, and the way this team was playing they were certainly doing that, and Toffoli increased their chances. The playoffs are anybodys game, TB had all the stars aligned for them winning last year, not a single weakness, a team that only the Canucks can dream of being (for now!) out in the 1st round Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrturkish Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 On 3/30/2020 at 4:47 PM, Elias Pettersson said: Benning said he sees Madden as a winger in the NHL. We will see if that is true or not. At centre there was no spot for him on the Canucks. And as a right winger there was also no spot. We have more right wingers than we know what to do with. Guys like Podkolzin, Lind and Lockwood haven't even arrived yet. Wish him all the best. He will need to add to his 155 pound frame if he wants to play in a bottom 6 role. The good news for Madden is LA is weak up front and he could get a spot either as a centre or right winger. I think he has the talent to be an NHL player. Problem was in Vancouver there wasn't much of a fit for a 155 pound player given the fact we already lack size up front and are trying to get bigger. Madden was never going to take Gaudette's spot on the 3rd line. Another Sofa hockey coach looking into the future. Madden will be a better player than those listed IMO. If Taffoli is allowed to leave then this trade will be one of Bennings worst. Wasn’t much of a fit in Vancouver lmao. Look how many people were calling out pettersson because of his size. Proved those people wrong and madden will do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucklehead44 Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 This trade is not only bad but it could go down as one of the worst trades in Canucks history. If Toffoli had multiple years left on his contract at a cheap rate this trade would have been worth it. Madden is playing at a 1st rounder level PLUS giving up the 2nd is highway robbery for LA. Add to the point that we are/were a bubble team with a young core. Also Toffoli isn't exactly a star player either. At the very least Benning should have tried to at least dump Baertschi in the deal instead of Schaller to help with cap space this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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