Come next season

[Fred65]

14 hours ago, iceman64 said:

Well if a part of a portfolio fails then it just becomes a tax write off.. 

 

For sure. Here's the kicker you have to make money to take advantage of tax write offs. No profit, no tax, no write off Mind you he had to give a lot of his portfolio to his ex wife when the divorced and that's a tax write off 

[erkayloomeh]

On 4/1/2020 at 2:06 PM, Fred65 said:

I've just read an article in the THN regarding a KHL team withdrawing form the league period. The reason that the writer speculated on was the sponsor of the team would likely suffer severe financial problems next season with the economy likely to fail post corona virus. It's a good point. Business will likely take years to get back to normal and many paying customers will neither have jobs or capital al to buy tickets. That leads me to wonder how secure the Aqualini family is and beyond them a number of the other NHL franchises. In Vcr the real estate market will suffer, many will be unable to pay their mortgages and that market is  a primary part of the Aqualini's  portfolio. We talk flippantly about buy outs but is it practical. I guess the question is will the NHL be on it's heels next season. A number of teams are owned by financial stock investors ie new money. Will they be able to weather this storm or will the NHL need to address the problem in a new era

During the great depression there was spawned alot of wealth also. People who had no debt and money in the bank were thriving. One company couldn't weather the storm, went under, so another bought up there assets for pennies on the dollar, took there employees on the cheap and as well it increased there clientele because they took what clients they had left.  Then when the depression ended there asset went up. 

I heard on the news last week that some hotel chain owner they thought was going to be in trouble made a statement about a particular stock he thought was going to drop. That caused it to drop and when it did he bought it. He made 2 billion in a week. Can't remember the exact details but if you know what your doing in these times you can thrive. 

[IBatch]

On 4/6/2020 at 12:54 AM, iceman64 said:

Well if a part of a portfolio fails then it just becomes a tax write off.. 

 

Only on what you sell.

[Fred65]

16 hours ago, erkayloomeh said:

During the great depression there was spawned alot of wealth also. People who had no debt and money in the bank were thriving. One company couldn't weather the storm, went under, so another bought up there assets for pennies on the dollar, took there employees on the cheap and as well it increased there clientele because they took what clients they had left.  Then when the depression ended there asset went up. 

I heard on the news last week that some hotel chain owner they thought was going to be in trouble made a statement about a particular stock he thought was going to drop. That caused it to drop and when it did he bought it. He made 2 billion in a week. Can't remember the exact details but if you know what your doing in these times you can thrive. 

Here's the key. You have to have sufficient capital to weather the storm. Lots of good businesses under capitalized, there  for the picking. That mantra the rich get richer is true

[TheRealistOptimist]

On 4/3/2020 at 5:22 PM, Fred65 said:

I got the State wrong and  mixed up Madison for Minnesota but the wage is correct

 

I don't mind telling you I was shocked when the lady told me. I was travelling and didn't bother to check but here's the confirmation that she wasn't joking.

 

 

Apparently this is how it works. If a waiter/waitress average less than $30 / month in tips then the employer must make the salary up to the $7.25 However which waiter or waitress makes less than $30/month there for the salary remains at $2.13 Funny enough the waitress in question who explained this to us on what was an extremely quiet night when tips would be few and far between. She actually sat at our table and chatted for some time. She also quickly added that she didn't want to pressure us. She seemed like a nice and genuine lady, both my wife and I were concerned. The lady wasn't a youngster living with a bunch of other similar minded youngster. 

@Fred65 - You're still getting the information wrong. Like @Googlie said, in Wisconsin they are getting a minimum wage of $7.25/hr. If they get more than $4.92 cents per hour their employer can remove that amount from their hourly wage of $7.25, however they still get to keep their tips so they are making at least $7.25/hr. It seems like a little bit of a weird system but it is what it is. 

 

Here is the link:
https://www.minimum-wage.org/wisconsin/tipped-employee-minimum-wage

 

As for the sky is falling scenario of owners possibly being in trouble financially. I think it is way too early to be worrying about this, we are not even a month into the NHL being shut down and the strict social distancing guidelines being implemented. 
 

The unemployment rates are high right now but a large percentage of those employees will be hired back when the businesses employing them start operating again. There probably will be some financial pain and it should affect the amount of money people are willing to spend on event tickets going forward but in reality it probably won't. 

 

[Fred65]

2 hours ago, TheRealistOptimist said:

@Fred65 - You're still getting the information wrong. Like @Googlie said, in Wisconsin they are getting a minimum wage of $7.25/hr. If they get more than $4.92 cents per hour their employer can remove that amount from their hourly wage of $7.25, however they still get to keep their tips so they are making at least $7.25/hr. It seems like a little bit of a weird system but it is what it is. 

 

Here is the link:
https://www.minimum-wage.org/wisconsin/tipped-employee-minimum-wage

 

As for the sky is falling scenario of owners possibly being in trouble financially. I think it is way too early to be worrying about this, we are not even a month into the NHL being shut down and the strict social distancing guidelines being implemented. 
 

The unemployment rates are high right now but a large percentage of those employees will be hired back when the businesses employing them start operating again. There probably will be some financial pain and it should affect the amount of money people are willing to spend on event tickets going forward but in reality it probably won't. 

 

I have no idea WHY the entire quote is not being read

 

Quote

Wisconsin's current minimum wage is $7.25 per hour. Wisconsin's minimum wage is tied to the Federal Minimum Wage rate. A special minimum wage of $5.90 per hour ($2.13 per hour for tipped employees)

WAITER/WAITRESES certainly fall under the category of receiving tipped employees so they get $2.13 an hour PLUS tips what ever they may be. BUT the fact remains their HOURLY pay is $2.13. They may net out to be over the minimum but that relies on the generosity of the patrons and has NOTHING to do with the employer. What alerted to me to this was an actual real live person who was a waitress AND was being paid $2.13/hour. I don't know what else to say.

 

As to optomism. The recovery is not going to be dreams and wishes. The US is now up to 15 million who have registered for unemployment ……. that close to the  entire population of Ontario and BC combined. Last week Newfoundland came  close to running out of money ...see Financial Post "In recent weeks Newfoundland and Labrador came close to running out of cash"    and

 

"The provinces entered the crisis with the highest collective debt-to-GDP ratio of any sub-national sector in the world."

 

Your belief is not well founded about employers simply opening the door and resuming their business as it was. Few folks will have surplus capital when this is over, ie going to the movies or out for a meal will for a large number of people not be realistic. Self employed will not have the capital to finance an another attempt at starting a business all over again. I'm not sure if you have started a business of your own ( I have) and frankly wouldn't recommend it. Assuming you have a family, a mortgage, a car loan or what ever, you need considerable finances to cover the first few months and with NO guarantee it will work out! So to spin the wheel on another gamble is not good. Many businesses live payroll to payroll. Many employed folks live pay cheque to pay cheque. I have no idea what you career is maybe an academic ( those are folks that talk a lot but rarely experience a lot  ) or maybe in a institutional type of work or on a government gravy train  …. but even they need taxes from the poor working stiffs of the world to survive. Your optimism is good, I like it, but not well founded IMO

Edited April 9, 2020 by Fred65

[TheRealistOptimist]

7 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

I have no idea WHY the entire quote is not being read

 

 

I read the whole thing,
 

You are interpreting it wrong.

 

No waiter or waitress in Wisconsin can work an hour and only get paid $2.13 or $2.33 if you are older than 20 and have worked there for longer than 90 days. 

 

EVERY waiter/waitress in Wisconsin will earn AT LEAST $7.25 per hour.  

You seem relatively well spoken @Fred65 but I don't know why you are having such a hard time understanding this. 

Edited April 9, 2020 by TheRealistOptimist

[TheRealistOptimist]

@Fred65

 

Wisconsin labor law allows tipped employees to be paid a lower cash wage than the standard Wisconsin minimum wage by their employers, as up to $4.92 in tips earned per hour can be deducted from their wage as a "Tip Credit". This means that, with the maximum tip credit taken, tipped employees must be paid a cash wage of at least $2.33 per hour, for a total minimum compensation of $7.25 per hour (including tips).

Wisconsin does not specify a minimum amount of tips an employee must receive in order to be classified as a "tipped employee". Therefore, any employee who receives tips can be paid according to Wisconsin's tipped minimum wage laws.

---

Tipped Minimum Wage

$7.25

Maximum Tip Credit

$4.92

Minimum Cash Wage

$2.33

$2.13 per hour may be paid to employees who are under 20 years old and who have been employed by a particular employer for 90 or fewer consecutive calendar days from the date of initial employment.

 

How Tip Credits Work in Wisconsin

It's important to note that while the tip credit allows employers to pay tipped employees significantly less than the prevailing minimum wage in cash, no tipped employee should ever receive actual wages of less than $7.25 per hour. As a general rule, the cash wage received plus any tips should equal at least $7.25 for each hour the tipped employee works.

 

Example Tip Credit Calculation:

Let's say Jessica is a server in Wisconsin who receives an hourly wage of $7.25, the Wisconsin minimum wage. During an hour long scheduled shift, Jessica receives $5.00 in tips.

For that hour, Jessica's employer can credit $4.92 of the received tips against Jessica's hourly wage of $7.25, so they will only pay $2.33 in cash wages for that hour. However, including both the cash wage and the $5.00 in tips received, Jessica's total earnings are $8.00.

In the next hour of their shift, Jessica receives no tips. Because no tips were received to be credited against the minimum wage, the employer must pay Jessica $7.25 in cash wages for this hour.

 

Edited April 9, 2020 by TheRealistOptimist

[Fred65]

31 minutes ago, TheRealistOptimist said:

@Fred65

 

Wisconsin labor law allows tipped employees to be paid a lower cash wage than the standard Wisconsin minimum wage by their employers, as up to $4.92 in tips earned per hour can be deducted from their wage as a "Tip Credit". This means that, with the maximum tip credit taken, tipped employees must be paid a cash wage of at least $2.33 per hour, for a total minimum compensation of $7.25 per hour (including tips).

Wisconsin does not specify a minimum amount of tips an employee must receive in order to be classified as a "tipped employee". Therefore, any employee who receives tips can be paid according to Wisconsin's tipped minimum wage laws.

---

Tipped Minimum Wage

$7.25

Maximum Tip Credit

$4.92

Minimum Cash Wage

$2.33

$2.13 per hour may be paid to employees who are under 20 years old and who have been employed by a particular employer for 90 or fewer consecutive calendar days from the date of initial employment.

 

How Tip Credits Work in Wisconsin

It's important to note that while the tip credit allows employers to pay tipped employees significantly less than the prevailing minimum wage in cash, no tipped employee should ever receive actual wages of less than $7.25 per hour. As a general rule, the cash wage received plus any tips should equal at least $7.25 for each hour the tipped employee works.

 

Example Tip Credit Calculation:

Let's say Jessica is a server in Wisconsin who receives an hourly wage of $7.25, the Wisconsin minimum wage. During an hour long scheduled shift, Jessica receives $5.00 in tips.

For that hour, Jessica's employer can credit $4.92 of the received tips against Jessica's hourly wage of $7.25, so they will only pay $2.33 in cash wages for that hour. However, including both the cash wage and the $5.00 in tips received, Jessica's total earnings are $8.00.

In the next hour of their shift, Jessica receives no tips. Because no tips were received to be credited against the minimum wage, the employer must pay Jessica $7.25 in cash wages for this hour.

 

As I read it the employer pays out $2.13 and the patrons pay $4.92 which then totals  a little over $7. You are including the patrons as the employer ? This is not about what the employee grosses out but what the employer pays out. You seem to argues that tips are an actual part of the employees pay role, it's not, it's a subsidy paid by well meaning patrons

[TheRealistOptimist]

8 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

As I read it the employer pays out $2.13 and the patrons pay $4.92 which then totals  a little over $7. You are including the patrons as the employer ? This is not about what the employee grosses out but what the employer pays out. You seem to argues that tips are an actual part of the employees pay role, it's not, it's a subsidy paid by well meaning patrons

No.

- The employees wage is $7.25 per hour.

- If the Employee gets tipped out more than $4.92 per hour, the employer gets to remove up to $4.92 off of the employees hourly wage. 

- If the employee doesn't get tipped anything they will receive a base pay of $7.25 per hour. 

 

So all in all the employee will always make a minimum of $7.25 per hour. 

 

They just have a weird rule where if your tips are more than $4.92 per hour the employer can take that much off of their hourly wage. But the employee is still receiving at least $7.25 per hour. 

 

At no point can an employee end up with 8 x $2.13 = $17.04 for a 8 hour shift with no tips.

Edited April 9, 2020 by TheRealistOptimist

[Fred65]

4 minutes ago, TheRealistOptimist said:

No.

- The employees wage is $7.25 per hour.

- If the Employee gets tipped out more than $4.92 per hour, the employer gets to remove up to $4.92 off of the employees hourly wage. 

- If the employee doesn't get tipped anything they will receive a base pay of $7.25 per hour. 

 

So all in all the employee will always make a minimum of $7.25 per hour. 

 

They just have a weird rule where if your tips are more than $4.92 per hour the employer can take that much off of their hourly wage. But the employee is still receiving at least $7.25 per hour. 

 

At no point can an employee end up with 8 x $2.13 = $17.04 for a 8 hour shift with no tips.

This may just be semantics to you but for the waitress that recieves her pay cheque it shows she is paid $85.20 for a 40 hour week. Can you imagine the uproar if this was instituted in BC. The fact is Wisconsin have put into Law a rule that saves the employer $4.92 per hour ie his pay role shows him only laying out the $2.13 net an hour for all his waitresses. The rest as they say is monkey business. It's money into the employers pockets ( would you deny that ???? ) and money out of the employees pocket. I trust the Governors that put this law into effect gets theirs in the end. Sadly this is what fuels unionism …. to keep a balance between the employer and the employee. It's a disgrace not only for the legislators but for the unions to, that they permit this practise to continue.

 

DO NOT include patrons as an employers

[TheRealistOptimist]

2 hours ago, Fred65 said:

This may just be semantics to you but for the waitress that recieves her pay cheque it shows she is paid $85.20 for a 40 hour week. Can you imagine the uproar if this was instituted in BC. The fact is Wisconsin have put into Law a rule that saves the employer $4.92 per hour ie his pay role shows him only laying out the $2.13 net an hour for all his waitresses. The rest as they say is monkey business. It's money into the employers pockets ( would you deny that ???? ) and money out of the employees pocket. I trust the Governors that put this law into effect gets theirs in the end. Sadly this is what fuels unionism …. to keep a balance between the employer and the employee. It's a disgrace not only for the legislators but for the unions to, that they permit this practise to continue.

 

DO NOT include patrons as an employers

You’re missing the point. 
 

You may not agree with system. But you claiming the employee only gets $2.13 per hour as minimum wage is just wrong. They are never getting paid less than $7.25 per hour. That’s just a fact. 
 

They could make $100 dollars an hour in tips and all the business does is take back $4.92. It’s a weird system, but it’s the system they have. It also could be beneficial to the employee if the employee gets tipped out in cash (potentially no taxes on cash tip outs).
 

Plus every customer who walks into that restaurant is pretty much guilted into tipping, regardless of the service that the employee actually gives. That’s just the way we’ve been programmed in the US and Canada.

 

Anyways I’m over this conversation, it’s way off topic plus who cares about Wisconsin there’s not even a NHL team there. You can continue to misunderstand the facts and put misleading information out there if you want but the proper info is right there for anybody who cares. 

Edited April 9, 2020 by TheRealistOptimist

[Fred65]

45 minutes ago, TheRealistOptimist said:

You’re missing the point. 
 

You may not agree with system. But you claiming the employee only gets $2.13 per hour as minimum wage is just wrong. They are never getting paid less than $7.25 per hour. That’s just a fact. 
 

They could make $100 dollars an hour in tips and all the business does is take back $4.92. It’s a weird system, but it’s the system they have. It also could be beneficial to the employee if the employee gets tipped out in cash (potentially no taxes on cash tip outs).
 

Plus every customer who walks into that restaurant is pretty much guilted into tipping, regardless of the service that the employee actually gives. That’s just the way we’ve been programmed in the US and Canada.

 

Anyways I’m over this conversation, it’s way off topic plus who cares about Wisconsin there’s not even a NHL team there. You can continue to misunderstand the facts and put misleading information out there if you want but the proper info is right there for anybody who cares. 

Quote

You can continue to misunderstand the facts and put misleading information out there if you want but the proper info is right there for anybody who cares. 

Frankly, I resent that remark. I can agree to disagree on the subject. But to tell me you're right and the rest are wrong is cavalier and arrogant. Frankly your explanation does little to convince either myself or the poor waitress. But yeah it's over thankfully 

[aGENT]

On 4/6/2020 at 6:17 PM, erkayloomeh said:

During the great depression there was spawned alot of wealth also. People who had no debt and money in the bank were thriving. One company couldn't weather the storm, went under, so another bought up there assets for pennies on the dollar, took there employees on the cheap and as well it increased there clientele because they took what clients they had left.  Then when the depression ended there asset went up. 

I heard on the news last week that some hotel chain owner they thought was going to be in trouble made a statement about a particular stock he thought was going to drop. That caused it to drop and when it did he bought it. He made 2 billion in a week. Can't remember the exact details but if you know what your doing in these times you can thrive. 

Pretty much this. Yeah he might get a bit of a sting from lower gates and the value of the franchise might take a dip on paper etc but the family has loads of real estate, blueberry farms etc and if they're not complete idiots, I'm sure investments in a variety of other places as well.

 

If anything, they're more likely to buy assets, properties etc at pennies on the dollar and expand their wealth even more.

 

I'm not worried at all for the Aqualinis.

[TheRealistOptimist]

On 4/9/2020 at 2:27 PM, Fred65 said:

Frankly, I resent that remark. I can agree to disagree on the subject. But to tell me you're right and the rest are wrong is cavalier and arrogant. Frankly your explanation does little to convince either myself or the poor waitress. But yeah it's over thankfully 

You are denying facts...it’s very Trump like of you. Plus you are the only one who has been told their wrong and it wasn’t just by me. 
 

The waitress probably uses that sad sap story with every customer in order to get better tips.  

[Fred65]

2 hours ago, TheRealistOptimist said:

You are denying facts...it’s very Trump like of you. Plus you are the only one who has been told their wrong and it wasn’t just by me. 
 

The waitress probably uses that sad sap story with every customer in order to get better tips.  

Oh yea of little faith, ref waitress. But then it takes one to know one

 

Try this calculation

 

a Waitress is paid $7/hr for a 40 hour week

She receives $120 in gratuities from patrons

There for restaurant owner claims $4 deduction because of her tips

How much is the cheque he writes at the end of the week

 

He writes a cheque to her for how much, just in case you're not good at math  .. he writes the cheque for $120 

 

[TheRealistOptimist]

13 hours ago, Fred65 said:

Oh yea of little faith, ref waitress. But then it takes one to know one

 

Try this calculation

 

a Waitress is paid $7/hr for a 40 hour week

She receives $120 in gratuities from patrons

There for restaurant owner claims $4 deduction because of her tips

How much is the cheque he writes at the end of the week

 

He writes a cheque to her for how much, just in case you're not good at math  .. he writes the cheque for $120 

 

Why are you making your own calculations??

Your scenario is wrong as well. First off $120/40 hours = $3/hour, so the restaurant owner would not be able to take $4/hour off her pay. In your scenario the restaurant owner would only be able to claim $3/hour not $4/hour.
 

Therefore, if her wage was $7/hour, after all the tips and deductions are calculated she would still take home $7/hour, for a total of $280 (before tax).

 

wage - $7*40 hours = $280 
tip out - $120/40 hours = $3/hour

owner deduction - $3/40 hours = $120

Total wage for 40 hours - $280 dollars 

 

If you divide $280 by 40 hours you will get $7/hour.

In reality though, either way you slice it, the waiter/waitress is getting paid AT LEAST $7.25 per hour in Wisconsin. 
 

At NO POINT will any legally employed worker in Wisconsin take home less than $7.25 per hour (before taxes). 

 

This is a indisputable. 
 

Maybe you will understand this way paragraph that I found better.

 

“Currently, the federal minimum wage is $7.25 an hour. Wisconsin’s minimum wage is the same. Therefore, tipped employees in Wisconsin are entitled to earn $7.25 an hour.”

 

“Wisconsin law allows employers to claim a tip credit. Wisconsin employers may pay tipped employees as little as $2.33 an hour. If the employee’s hourly wage plus tips earned don’t add up to at least $7.25 an hour, the employer must make up the difference.”

 

Your original statement was:

 

“FYG waitreses in Minnesota their minimum wage is $2.00/hr“

 

Then you changed it to Wisconsin.

At some point, after you were told you were spreading misinformation, you tried to change the argument to how much the restaurant owner has to pay the employee per hour if their tips equal out to more than $4.92 per hour and not how much they are actually earning per hour. 
 

You did not use these numbers, you made a statement that didn’t make much sense:

 

“Apparently this is how it works. If a waiter/waitress average less than $30 / month in tips then the employer must make the salary up to the $7.25 However which waiter or waitress makes less than $30/month there for the salary remains at $2.13”

 

But even in that statement you acknowledged that the employer has to make up the employees salary to $7.25 if the tips aren’t enough. The State minimum wage is $7.25, so if the employee is guaranteed to earn at least this much per hour, they are never only taking home only $2.33 or $2.13 per hour (Whichever number you want to use), which is what your original argument was.

 

The point being argued by myself is that the minimum wage in Wisconsin is never $2/hour. The state minimum wage for any employee (tipped or not) is $7.25. So at the end of every shift the employee will be earning at least $7.25 per hour. How it gets to a MINIMUM of $7.25 per hour was never my argument.

 

This waitress fed you a line, probably to get a better tip from your table. You bought it hook, line and sinker and now you are arguing against the facts of the government.

 

It’s really weird.

[Fred65]

I'm not sure how to discuss this with you, you fly in the face of truth. You constantly mistake the tips for salary. You can not include tips or gratuities as part of a salary

 

Quote

Definition Salary

 

a fixed regular payment, typically paid on a monthly or biweekly basis but often expressed as an annual sum, made by an employer to an employee, especially a professional or white-collar worker.

Any way I give up. You can't rationalize with Republicans

 

By the way yes I made a mistake about Minnisota when it should have been Madison Wisconsin, that was simply laziness on my part. I travel frequently in the US and have done for years and after a period of time I can mistake one trip for another.

[TheRealistOptimist]

52 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

I'm not sure how to discuss this with you, you fly in the face of truth. You constantly mistake the tips for salary. You can not include tips or gratuities as part of a salary

 

Any way I give up. You can't rationalize with Republicans

 

By the way yes I made a mistake about Minnisota when it should have been Madison Wisconsin, that was simply laziness on my part. I travel frequently in the US and have done for years and after a period of time I can mistake one trip for another.

You don’t even know what a “salaried” employee is.

 

a worker who earn’s an hourly wage is not a salaried employee. 
 

Waiters/waitresses are not salaried employees. They don’t earn a set yearly amount. 

 

 

[The Colt 45s]

She would be a pretty bad waitress only making $5 per hour in tips.  Here in the US tipping is kind of obligatory.  My wife worked Friday and Saturday nights at Texas Roadhouse and often her tips were in excess of $250 a night.  Then again she handled 4-5 tables and had many turns, and $10-$15 per table per night.  Busy night. She treated people right.  Always kind and polite.  But then again she did not pool so sehe did not have to share with the others waitresses who did not earn as much--except with the kitchen staff.  But still, not bad for working 10 hours a weekend.
   

Edited April 14, 2020 by The Colt 45s