Top 50 Canucks of All-Time - #17

[189lb enforcers?]

There aren’t many players whose names were chanted by the crowd or whose names are on the sweaters fans wear to games. 
 

Those players, like Snepts, Bure, Gino and Lu, must be the Greatest Canucks. 
 

Did anyone chant Kesler or Lumme?
No, not even Naslund was treated with that kind of fanfare. 

 

King Richard, Snepts, Pavel, Gino... and evening Rypien deserve to be in a metric-less discussion about greatness, as Canucks.

 

Tanev? Salo? 
There are dozens of players who live in the hearts and memories of fans who register way before the likes of Tanev, for instance. Like @IBatch says, Myrzn will always be ahead of Tanev just because of how he played and what he gave to the team - I would guess there were a half dozen Salo’s here, before Salo, players most posters/voters don't know even existed. 
 

How can you even vote when you didn’t see these players or live through the experience.
 

I read guys questioning the placing of Snepts, for instance.
... I mean, there day will come when someone like Rafferty is being placed above Ohlund or Edler or something similar, and that’s when those fans will get theirs... as far as this sentiment goes. 
 

It’s too bad the polls aren’t split between posters in Grade six to 12, university kids, people under 35, etc. 
 

Who would get the louder cheer when they walked out to center ice in a game, Ronning or Kesler? Brodeur or Schneider? Gino or Tanti? The list doesn’t reflect this. 
 

The Greatest Canucks live in infamy and in the hearts of the fans. 
 

Think about it. You walk Naslund out there, then Gino....

Who gets the recognition by the fans?

 

I bet Gino gets just as much or a better ovation. Same with Bure, but the list won’t show that. Too bad. 

Edited April 5, 2020 by 189lb enforcers?

[ruilin96]

Voted Bieksa, nominating Chris Tanev

[Kevin Biestra]

23 minutes ago, Baratheon said:

No mention of Garth Butcher by anyone that I've seen.  Interesting!  I thought he'd have at least one person going to bat for him.

 

I also find it interesting how many Tanev nominations are coming in.  I love Tanev but he's still at least several guys down the list for me.

 

Garth is in my top 50 for sure, but we aren't quite there yet.  I've still got some fish to fry that haven't been nominated.  I mean, Lidster just got in this round.

[189lb enforcers?]

28 minutes ago, Baratheon said:

No mention of Garth Butcher by anyone that I've seen.  Interesting!  I thought he'd have at least one person going to bat for him.

 

I also find it interesting how many Tanev nominations are coming in.  I love Tanev but he's still at least several guys down the list for me.

I tagged him, Lidster and Big Dave early on because I sensed this was going to be a millennial-led poll where players like Butcher were completely unknown/unrecognized by voters. 
 

Should be a poll for posters over the age of 40, 50 even. We have guys digging into stat pages to guess the effectiveness of a guy like Snepts. That’s just wrong. Look at Gino, still not on a list before a circus act like Burrows. 

Edited April 5, 2020 by 189lb enforcers?

[Kevin Biestra]

9 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Should be a poll for posters over the age of 40, 50 even. We have guys digging into stat pages to guess the effectiveness of a guy like Snepts. That’s just wrong. Look at Gino, still not on a list before a circus act like Burrows. 

 

Hey, I'm happy if someone at least takes the time to look up Snepsts.

 

But as you said, the heroes you listed, the guys that had their names cheered and inspired a generation to play hockey...it's pretty hard to extract what they meant from the numbers alone.

 

Tanev's a good player.  But kids wanted to grow up to be Linden, Smyl, McLean, Brodeur, Gino and Tiger.

Edited April 5, 2020 by Kevin Biestra

[Baratheon]

4 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

I tagged him, Lidster and Big Dave early on because I sensed this was going to be a millennial-led poll where players like Butcher were completely unknown/unrecognized by voters. 
 

Should be a poll for posters over the age of 40, 50 even. We have guys digging into stat pages to guess the effectiveness of a guy like Snepts. That’s just wrong. Look at Gino, still not on a list before a circus act like Burrows. 

See I'm somewhere in the middle. (Maybe that shows my age)  I think both recency bias and romanticism about the past are issues.  For example I really want to see Jovo get in but I remember all too well the adventure he could be in our own zone.   Or Kirk McLean!  I loved me some Captain Kirk but I also remember beating my head against the wall at times when watching him.

 

Then of course there's the youngsters that you're talking about.  You know the ones.  The guys nominating freaking TANEV!!! (haha sorry guys I'm fired up about that one)

[Kevin Biestra]

3 minutes ago, Baratheon said:

Or Kirk McLean!  I loved me some Captain Kirk but I also remember beating my head against the wall at times when watching him.

 

What drove you nuts about McLean?  I remember he had one season where he would let in a goal right away in the first five minutes...but then he would settle down and play well the rest of the way.  And it only lasted that one year.

 

I think McLean is about as stable and reassuring as we've ever had it in net around these parts.

Edited April 5, 2020 by Kevin Biestra

[189lb enforcers?]

1 minute ago, Baratheon said:

See I'm somewhere in the middle. (Maybe that shows my age)  I think both recency bias and romanticism about the past are issues.  For example I really want to see Jovo get in but I remember all too well the adventure he could be in our own zone.   Or Kirk McLean!  I loved me some Captain Kirk but I also remember beating my head against the wall at times when watching him.

 

Then of course there's the youngsters that you're talking about.  You know the ones.  The guys nominating freaking TANEV!!! (haha sorry guys I'm fired up about that one)

Then we are probably in the same boat. 

One of the most satisfying things I’ve been part of as a posting member of this forum (going back to ‘99) has been reading the public service announcement work by this thread’s mainstays. They know who they are. 
 

I hope posters and readers take the time to research the past, without the romanticism like you say (eg McLean, IMO or Bert - the biggest floater in Canucks history and offside magnet-extraordinaire) and discover players like Skriko, Fraser, Tanti, Myrzn, etc. Even Smyl’s name had to be fought for on this list, which is telling. 
 

All in good fun. 

[Kevin Biestra]

5 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Even Smyl’s name had to be fought for on this list, which is telling.

 

Yeah, it's a good thing his number is retired so he can't be swept under the rug.  But the default view seems to be that well, obviously he's sixth of the jersey retirement guys.  But for "greatest Canuck" I had him ahead of Naslund and Bure.  He's not ahead of them for the Hall of Fame, but that's a different question.

Edited April 5, 2020 by Kevin Biestra

[Baratheon]

2 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

What drove you nuts about McLean?  I remember he had one season where he would let in a goal right away in the first five minutes...but then he would settle down and play well the rest of the way.

 

I think McLean is about as stable and reassuring as we've ever had it in net around these parts.

So again this is probably related to my age.  The 1992-1993 season are my earliest hockey memories.  The 1994 season are vivid memories that stayed fresh because of all the recorded footage that my family has.  Now I feel that I have to defend myself a little bit!  I am a huge nerd so I've watched a lot of old games from the 70's and 80's as well.  That's why I've voted for so many of them.

So with that in mind consider that most of my memories of McLean are 94 (which everyone remembers) and then the few seasons after that where he (like most of the team) became pretty frustrating to watch.  ALSO remember that at that time is when the careers of Pat Roy, Dominick Hasek and Marty Brodeur were exploding.  So that's what I had to compare Kirk with lol.

[chon derry]

3 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Then we are probably in the same boat. 

One of the most satisfying things I’ve been part of as a posting member of this forum (going back to ‘99) has been reading the public service announcement work by this thread’s mainstays. They know who they are. 
 

I hope posters and readers take the time to research the past, without the romanticism like you say (eg McLean, IMO or Bert - the biggest floater in Canucks history and offside magnet-extraordinaire) and discover players like Skriko, Fraser, Tanti, Myrzn, Courtnalls , Aucoin , Hedican , Diduck  etc. Even Smyl’s name had to be fought for on this list, which is telling. 
 

All in good fun. 

ftfy

[Baratheon]

6 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Then we are probably in the same boat. 

One of the most satisfying things I’ve been part of as a posting member of this forum (going back to ‘99) has been reading the public service announcement work by this thread’s mainstays. They know who they are. 
 

I hope posters and readers take the time to research the past, without the romanticism like you say (eg McLean, IMO or Bert - the biggest floater in Canucks history and offside magnet-extraordinaire) and discover players like Skriko, Fraser, Tanti, Myrzn, etc. Even Smyl’s name had to be fought for on this list, which is telling. 
 

All in good fun. 

I'm actually really looking forward to getting in to the later stages of this list.  I think there will be some fun discussions about blasts from the past that people forget about.

[Kevin Biestra]

4 minutes ago, Baratheon said:

So again this is probably related to my age.  The 1992-1993 season are my earliest hockey memories.  The 1994 season are vivid memories that stayed fresh because of all the recorded footage that my family has.  Now I feel that I have to defend myself a little bit!  I am a huge nerd so I've watched a lot of old games from the 70's and 80's as well.  That's why I've voted for so many of them.

So with that in mind consider that most of my memories of McLean are 94 (which everyone remembers) and then the few seasons after that where he (like most of the team) became pretty frustrating to watch.  ALSO remember that at that time is when the careers of Pat Roy, Dominick Hasek and Marty Brodeur were exploding.  So that's what I had to compare Kirk with lol.

 

Kirk was great, but it seemed like he got old pretty quickly.  Not sure how much was reflexes and how much was being the last of the great stand up goalies as the league changed around him, but it was all over for him once we traded him and he started bouncing around from team to team.

 

People forget, but he was a Vezina finalist in 1989 as well.  That trade really was a godsend...we very easily could have been a goalie graveyard after Brodeur left, but instead we barely missed a beat.

[Baratheon]

5 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Kirk was great, but it seemed like he got old pretty quickly.  Not sure how much was reflexes and how much was being the last of the great stand up goalies as the league changed around him, but it was all over for him once we traded him and he started bouncing around from team to team.

 

People forget, but he was a Vezina finalist in 1989 as well.  That trade really was a godsend...we very easily could have been a goalie graveyard after Brodeur left, but instead we barely missed a beat.

Yeah the guy was incredible for us.  I cannot debate that.  My point is that ALL players have their warts but they can slowly get forgotten over time.  It can make older players seem better than newer ones.  Then the flip side is that recent players are fresh in our minds.  I think that's what we see with the nomination of Kevin Bieksa.  I wonder if Bieksa would still have been nominated as soon if he hadn't been on TV as much and had his podcast.

[189lb enforcers?]

A poll to list players who willed everything they had to help the team win would probably be just as contentious, so I’ll shut up now. One dimensional players like Naslund are not very high on such a list, IMO. 
 

Even Burrows, who I marginally respect as a player, would have to make my list. I’ll give him that. 
 

Who would you go to war with in Game 7?

 

Those will be great Canucks. 

Edited April 5, 2020 by 189lb enforcers?

[CaptKirk888]

32 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Then we are probably in the same boat. 

One of the most satisfying things I’ve been part of as a posting member of this forum (going back to ‘99) has been reading the public service announcement work by this thread’s mainstays. They know who they are. 
 

I hope posters and readers take the time to research the past, without the romanticism like you say (eg McLean, IMO or Bert - the biggest floater in Canucks history and offside magnet-extraordinaire) and discover players like Skriko, Fraser, Tanti, Myrzn, etc. Even Smyl’s name had to be fought for on this list, which is telling. 
 

All in good fun. 

Agree, but Fraser's time here was too short for consideration. Just 4 full seasons. Someone else nominated Patrick Sundstrom, same thing, he was great for us but was only here 5 years. I don't know maybe I'm wrong but I think to be considered, players should have had a long tenure with the Canucks?

[-AJ-]

2 hours ago, CaptKirk888 said:

A quick look at the stats on Canucks.com show he started 81 of the 98 games.

You're absolutely right, but what I mean is that he was the backup goaltender, starting as relief for Luongo in many of those. He wasn't "the guy" for most of those games, and so he only had to play occasionally instead of all the time like regular starting goaltenders.

[IBatch]

18 hours ago, -AJ- said:

Gonna vote for Tanti again, and based off the last poll, I think he'll get in here.

 

Continuing to make 80s fans happy by nominating Patrik Sundstrom.

Missed this the first time through - very solid nomination - one of the best centers we've had - owned the single season record for us until Bure arrived and became the first player (after two decades too!) to get break 100 points.  Silky smooth hands and was the guy feeding you man Tanti.  Thanks for making these threads - something to look forward too each day right now...thoroughly enjoying the fans participating - and the different viewpoints and contributions..

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Kirk was great, but it seemed like he got old pretty quickly.  Not sure how much was reflexes and how much was being the last of the great stand up goalies as the league changed around him, but it was all over for him once we traded him and he started bouncing around from team to team.

 

People forget, but he was a Vezina finalist in 1989 as well.  That trade really was a godsend...we very easily could have been a goalie graveyard after Brodeur left, but instead we barely missed a beat.

Yeah McLean faded quickly once he left.  However he was considered a top five goalie for a period of four or five years - and had some truly amazing games and of course epic saves.  Vernon and McLean are two of the goalies all-time that get the most air time for viewed saves - "The Save" of course is still Game 7 against Calgary in 1994...also he had something extra in him that came out come playoffs - think his 1994 SP was over .920 but would have to look it up (.992 I think).   On goalies before Roy popularized the butterfly (at the time 9 out of ten goals were scored along the ice), making it pretty easy to just drop down and get to .900sp just doing that - especially in the dead puck era and as pads and goalies started to balloon in size - Broduer, Vernon, Irbe, Beezer were small dudes - a lot more net right..there were a lot of incredible goalies - extremely athletic.   There were still top goalies before Roy that had crazy good career SP - Both Dryden and Parent for example were over .920...better then Roy, Brouder, Luongo etc. actually pretty much anyone except maybe Hasek.  Also the difference between .890 and .905 is tiny.  we are talking 15 more goals out of one thousand...what is that really.   An extra 1.5 goals every four games?  Whoopy.  Scoring is up and average SP is down.

 

Back to McLean.  He was one of the last great stand up goalies ... people that didn't watch hockey back then there is a huge difference between 6'4' goalies today with there much lighter pads (leather ones could gain as much as 20lbs of water weight over a game) and bigger pads - and dropping down into the butterfly as soon as a player has the puck on his stick hoping it bounces off him (9 out of 10 remember) then standing up and doing a kick save and directing the puck to your defenseman.   Rebound control is a lost art.  Same with sucking the pucks in between your arm and blocker to stop the play (on purpose of course).    McLean wasn't as good as Luongo for a lot of his career - but I would take late eighties to mid nineties McLean over Luongo in a seven game series anyday.  That McLean was dynamite.  No way we would have come back in 94 without him, he was absolutely peppered with some crazy good scoring chances in game one (over fifty shots I think) - but let only one in and won the game or us.  NYR was the best team in the league at the time for a two year period - McLean was equal to the task.  '

[Baratheon]

1 hour ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

A poll to list players who willed everything they had to help the team win would probably be just as contentious, so I’ll shut up now. One dimensional players like Naslund are not very high on such a list, IMO. 
 

Even Burrows, who I marginally respect as a player, would have to make my list. I’ll give him that. 
 

Who would you go to war with in Game 7?

 

Those will be great Canucks. 

Haha I've gotten in to this sooo many times!  Usually the debate is around goaltending when I get in to it.  I have always maintained that the greatest goalie in history is Dom Hasek.  Reason being that during that span of time where he was on top he was THE absolute BEST.  He won the most Vezinas in history (I think) despite not having the great teams and longevity of Brodeur.  

I also have a higher opinion of Pavel Bure than a lot of other people do for that reason.  Yeah he didn't have the longest career because of his knees and that but WOW that pocket of time that he was here!