Top 50 Canucks of All-Time - #19

[Kevin Biestra]

Vote Lidster, nominate Ronning.

[Kevin Biestra]

@Baratheon

 

Re your post in the #18 thread...  (your words in italics)

 

My guess is that a lot of people have forgotten Sundstrom.  How was he received at the time?  Do you know?  I looked up his 91 point season and I see that he was still outside the top 20 in NHL scoring.  I'm wondering if his accomplishments were overshadowed by the superstars of the 80's.  Even on the Canucks we had guys like Smyl, Tanti and Gradin.  Did they maybe overshadow him to a degree as well?  

 

I am legitimately asking as I wasn't around at the time and don't know. 

 

 

All of these guys were viewed as pretty similar to each other as scoring stars in the 80s:  Smyl, Gradin, Sundstrom, Tanti, Skriko, Barry Pederson, and maybe Darcy Rota.  They were all kind of 80 point-ish and until Pavel Bure, that was the best any Canuck ever really did.  Barry Pederson was criticized by some for not being Cam Neely and for no longer being a 100 point guy but I think most people respected that he was still as good at creating goals as anyone we had.

 

So Patrik Sundstrom's 91 points was our record, and was respected, but it really wasn't that much different from Smyl's 88 point year or Gradin's best seasons.  And Smyl, Rota and Gradin had a cup run to their names.  Skriko, Tanti, Pederson and Sundstrom never enjoyed any playoff success with the Canucks (though Sundstrom had a very impressive playoff one year for the Devils later on).

 

Skriko and Tanti were around and good for the 1989 series vs. the Flames (lost in the first round in Game 7 overtime, a legendary series) but that year was all about Trevor Linden and Kirk McLean.

 

So you are correct, the accomplishments of the seven 80-ish point guys from the 80s I named were overshadowed by other stars in the league and, to be honest, paled in comparison.  We had Wayne Gretzky scoring 200 points a year in our division, four times, and nobody on the Canucks could score (or ever had scored) 100 points.  Sundstrom was the only time anyone had even reached 90.  Meanwhile, in our division alone, Hawerchuk with 130-something points, Marcel Dionne with 130-something points, same with Paul Coffey and Jari Kurri and Kent Nilsson.  And that's just 130 point guys in the Smythe division in the 80s off the top of my head.  Oh, and Bernie Nicholls with 150.  The Canucks were trapped in a cage with a LOT of Hall of Famers.  Gretzky, Hawerchuk, Dionne, Kurri, MacInnis, Joe Nieuwendyk, Larry Murphy, Lays Chips Baldy, Glenn Anderson, Lanny, Coffey, Robitaille, Fuhr...and then plenty of others that certainly could be considered for the Hall - Kent Nilsson, Mike Vernon, Andy Moog, Dave Taylor, Charlie Simmer, Bernie Nicholls, Gary Suter...

 

But our guys that I named, they were good enough that if they had been on the Islanders or the Oilers instead, I think they would have probably had around 100 points a year at their peak and a decent chance they make it to the Hall of Fame in a Clark Gillies / Glenn Anderson like position.  They were great Canucks.

 

Anyway, when I look back at those six or seven guys, I kind of group them together in terms of being Canucks scoring stars of their day, and then things like Canucks and career longevity, how long their peak lasted, captaincies and playoff runs enter the picture and create separation.  Some of these guys started in the NHL a little late (early-mid-20s) and a bunch of them hit the wall age-wise pretty young (28-ish).

 

But when a guy like Sundstrom or Gradin or Skriko could do some legitimate wizardry now and then, it was a real treat.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 7, 2020 by Kevin Biestra

[-AJ-]

25 minutes ago, Beary Sweet said:

Voted Lumme. Nominating Morrison

Morrison is already an option on the poll, so he doesn't need to be nominated. Do you have a different nomination?

[Beary Sweet]

23 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

Morrison is already an option on the poll, so he doesn't need to be nominated. Do you have a different nomination?

Thanks for the mention. I’ll nominate Ronning

[Nave]

Voted Salo.

Nominating Hamhuis.

[McBackup]

Voting Lumme, nominating Ronning.

[kchengc]

voted Lumme

nominate Greg Adams

[Darkstar]

Vote Lumme

Nominate Ronning

[Kevin Biestra]

Also, I said in one of the earlier threads that Cory Schneider is our all time greatest backup, and that's true, but I only mentioned John Garrett among the other great ones and completely forgot to give some credit to Steve Weeks.  He was absolutely awesome as the #2 guy in 1988-89 and even got a playoff win that year.

Edited April 7, 2020 by Kevin Biestra

[IBatch]

Will start this just like last one vote Lidster - nominate Ronning.  

 

Edit:  The talent level is still very high in the guys available to select with a few still outside looking in that were good-great players for us.  Lidster, Lumme, Boudrias, Jovo, Ronning,  Bieksa, Lever, Sundstrom, Kearns, Babych, Morrison round out my 19-30 list of who's still there - pretty much in that order.  Honourable menations to Salo, Hamhuis and Courtnall who just miss the cut.

 

Edit:  Three of the top ten I'd have in the 10-20 range - and one of the 10-20 so far i'd have in the 20-30 so some guys got displaced...like the first four on the list above.. won''t mentions names as i know everyone including myself has their favourites.  

Edited April 7, 2020 by IBatch

[smithers joe]

boudrias

 

g courtnall

[Kevin Biestra]

2 hours ago, IBatch said:

Edit:  Three of the top ten I'd have in the 10-20 range - and one of the 10-20 so far i'd have in the 20-30 so some guys got displaced...like the first four on the list above.. won''t mentions names as i know everyone including myself has their favourites.  

 

It is high treason to disparage the King, so I know you weren't thinking of doing that.

[wildcam]

Really hope Jovanoski, Morrison, Lidster, Ronning make top 25 list.

[Baratheon]

9 hours ago, Kevin Biestra said:

@Baratheon

 

Re your post in the #18 thread...  (your words in italics)

 

My guess is that a lot of people have forgotten Sundstrom.  How was he received at the time?  Do you know?  I looked up his 91 point season and I see that he was still outside the top 20 in NHL scoring.  I'm wondering if his accomplishments were overshadowed by the superstars of the 80's.  Even on the Canucks we had guys like Smyl, Tanti and Gradin.  Did they maybe overshadow him to a degree as well?  

 

I am legitimately asking as I wasn't around at the time and don't know. 

 

 

All of these guys were viewed as pretty similar to each other as scoring stars in the 80s:  Smyl, Gradin, Sundstrom, Tanti, Skriko, Barry Pederson, and maybe Darcy Rota.  They were all kind of 80 point-ish and until Pavel Bure, that was the best any Canuck ever really did.  Barry Pederson was criticized by some for not being Cam Neely and for no longer being a 100 point guy but I think most people respected that he was still as good at creating goals as anyone we had.

 

So Patrik Sundstrom's 91 points was our record, and was respected, but it really wasn't that much different from Smyl's 88 point year or Gradin's best seasons.  And Smyl, Rota and Gradin had a cup run to their names.  Skriko, Tanti, Pederson and Sundstrom never enjoyed any playoff success with the Canucks (though Sundstrom had a very impressive playoff one year for the Devils later on).

 

Skriko and Tanti were around and good for the 1989 series vs. the Flames (lost in the first round in Game 7 overtime, a legendary series) but that year was all about Trevor Linden and Kirk McLean.

 

So you are correct, the accomplishments of the seven 80-ish point guys from the 80s I named were overshadowed by other stars in the league and, to be honest, paled in comparison.  We had Wayne Gretzky scoring 200 points a year in our division, four times, and nobody on the Canucks could score (or ever had scored) 100 points.  Sundstrom was the only time anyone had even reached 90.  Meanwhile, in our division alone, Hawerchuk with 130-something points, Marcel Dionne with 130-something points, same with Paul Coffey and Jari Kurri and Kent Nilsson.  And that's just 130 point guys in the Smythe division in the 80s off the top of my head.  The Canucks were trapped in a cage with a LOT of Hall of Famers.  Gretzky, Hawerchuk, Dionne, Kurri, MacInnis, Joe Nieuwendyk, Larry Murphy, Lays Chips Baldy, Glenn Anderson, Lanny, Coffey, Robitaille, Fuhr...and then plenty of others that certainly could be considered for the Hall - Kent Nilsson, Mike Vernon, Andy Moog, Dave Taylor, Charlie Simmer, Gary Suter...

 

But our guys guys that I named, they were good enough that if they had been on the Islanders or the Oilers instead, I think they would have probably had around 100 points a year at their peak and a decent chance they make it to the Hall of Fame in a Clark Gillies / Glenn Anderson like position.  They were great Canucks.

 

Anyway, when I look back at those six or seven guys, I kind of group them together in terms of being Canucks scoring stars of their day, and then things like Canucks and career longevity, how long their peak lasted, captaincies and playoff runs enter the picture and create separation.  Some of these guys started in the NHL a little late (early-mid-20s) and a bunch of them hit the wall age-wise pretty young (28-ish).

 

But when a guy like Sundstrom or Gradin or Skriko could do some legitimate wizardry now and then, it was a real treat.

 

 

 

 

 

This is a fantastic post and should be required reading for anyone born after 1985!  

You know until you said it here, I had actually forgotten about Barry Pederson.  The 1989 series against the Flames is another one that I have several of the games recorded.  There was this skinny kid.  Trevor something or another.  He was pretty darned good in that series!  Where was Barry for that series though?  Was he injured?

 

As a side note.  I swear every time we play the Flames in the playoffs it is a crazy series.  Win or lose we're always in for a ride when we play them.  I was hoping to see it again this year

[Kevin Biestra]

8 minutes ago, Baratheon said:

This is a fantastic post and should be required reading for anyone born after 1985!  

You know until you said it here, I had actually forgotten about Barry Pederson.  The 1989 series against the Flames is another one that I have several of the games recorded.  There was this skinny kid.  Trevor something or another.  He was pretty darned good in that series!  Where was Barry for that series though?  Was he injured?

 

As a side note.  I swear every time we play the Flames in the playoffs it is a crazy series.  Win or lose we're always in for a ride when we play them.  I was hoping to see it again this year

 

Cheers.

 

I think Pederson was hurt for the last part of 88-89.  Too bad, with a Game 7 overtime series, he's exactly the kind of guy that could have made a difference.

[189lb enforcers?]

10 hours ago, Kevin Biestra said:

@Baratheon

 

Re your post in the #18 thread...  (your words in italics)

 

My guess is that a lot of people have forgotten Sundstrom.  How was he received at the time?  Do you know?  I looked up his 91 point season and I see that he was still outside the top 20 in NHL scoring.  I'm wondering if his accomplishments were overshadowed by the superstars of the 80's.  Even on the Canucks we had guys like Smyl, Tanti and Gradin.  Did they maybe overshadow him to a degree as well?  

 

I am legitimately asking as I wasn't around at the time and don't know. 

 

 

All of these guys were viewed as pretty similar to each other as scoring stars in the 80s:  Smyl, Gradin, Sundstrom, Tanti, Skriko, Barry Pederson, and maybe Darcy Rota.  They were all kind of 80 point-ish and until Pavel Bure, that was the best any Canuck ever really did.  Barry Pederson was criticized by some for not being Cam Neely and for no longer being a 100 point guy but I think most people respected that he was still as good at creating goals as anyone we had.

 

So Patrik Sundstrom's 91 points was our record, and was respected, but it really wasn't that much different from Smyl's 88 point year or Gradin's best seasons.  And Smyl, Rota and Gradin had a cup run to their names.  Skriko, Tanti, Pederson and Sundstrom never enjoyed any playoff success with the Canucks (though Sundstrom had a very impressive playoff one year for the Devils later on).

 

Skriko and Tanti were around and good for the 1989 series vs. the Flames (lost in the first round in Game 7 overtime, a legendary series) but that year was all about Trevor Linden and Kirk McLean.

 

So you are correct, the accomplishments of the seven 80-ish point guys from the 80s I named were overshadowed by other stars in the league and, to be honest, paled in comparison.  We had Wayne Gretzky scoring 200 points a year in our division, four times, and nobody on the Canucks could score (or ever had scored) 100 points.  Sundstrom was the only time anyone had even reached 90.  Meanwhile, in our division alone, Hawerchuk with 130-something points, Marcel Dionne with 130-something points, same with Paul Coffey and Jari Kurri and Kent Nilsson.  And that's just 130 point guys in the Smythe division in the 80s off the top of my head.  Oh, and Bernie Nicholls with 150.  The Canucks were trapped in a cage with a LOT of Hall of Famers.  Gretzky, Hawerchuk, Dionne, Kurri, MacInnis, Joe Nieuwendyk, Larry Murphy, Lays Chips Baldy, Glenn Anderson, Lanny, Coffey, Robitaille, Fuhr...and then plenty of others that certainly could be considered for the Hall - Kent Nilsson, Mike Vernon, Andy Moog, Dave Taylor, Charlie Simmer, Bernie Nicholls, Gary Suter...

 

But our guys guys that I named, they were good enough that if they had been on the Islanders or the Oilers instead, I think they would have probably had around 100 points a year at their peak and a decent chance they make it to the Hall of Fame in a Clark Gillies / Glenn Anderson like position.  They were great Canucks.

 

Anyway, when I look back at those six or seven guys, I kind of group them together in terms of being Canucks scoring stars of their day, and then things like Canucks and career longevity, how long their peak lasted, captaincies and playoff runs enter the picture and create separation.  Some of these guys started in the NHL a little late (early-mid-20s) and a bunch of them hit the wall age-wise pretty young (28-ish).

 

But when a guy like Sundstrom or Gradin or Skriko could do some legitimate wizardry now and then, it was a real treat.

 

 

 

 

 

Another quality post. 

I’d say Sundstrom played on such terrible Canuck teams that he should get extra credit, unlike the Sedins, Naslund and even Linden, has in this Top 50 thing. 
 

Can you comment on this? 

[Kevin Biestra]

1 minute ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Another quality post. 

I’d say Sundstrom played on such terrible Canuck teams that he should get extra credit, unlike the Sedins, Naslund and even Linden, has in this Top 50 thing. 
 

Can you comment on this? 

 

Sure, I would say that fighting an uphill battle every night and doing it with heart adds a little bit to the "Canuck greatness" / legacy of a number of players like Sundstrom...and Lidster, Pederson, Skriko, Tanti.  It's counterbalanced a bit by a lack of playoff success for those guys.  But the guys who had to do that and killed it in the playoffs, like Williams, Smyl, Brodeur, Snepsts, etc...  That really gets them over the hump in my books.

 

Linden...  He played on some good teams from 91-94 but he was also the engine that drove those teams and the rudder that steered them, so I don't think it detracts from his legacy.

 

It kind of does for me with Naslund, Bertuzzi, Morrison, etc.  Their best playoff ever was an embarrassing second round collapse against Minnesota.  And the Mogilny / Messier teams were awful.  Ready to win the Cup on paper, and disgusting on the ice.

 

So...  Sundstrom...  I actually have a bit of a hard time finding my range with him.  He was absolutely critical to any success the Canucks had in the mid-80s...  And at the same time it wasn't much success.  But he sure as heck wasn't part of an underachieving team.  Those Canucks gave it everything they had to get into the playoffs in 4th or maybe 3rd spot in the division if they were lucky.

 

I think the best example of what you're describing with Sundstrom might be Gary Smith playing >70 games in net in 74-75 and basically willing that team to the division title.

[189lb enforcers?]

He was my first favourite Canuck as a kid, which quickly morphed into several in the early-mid to late 80’s. 
 

Greatest Forgotten Canucks, might be a fun one later. 

[Kevin Biestra]

Just now, 189lb enforcers? said:

Greatest Forgotten Canucks, might be a fun one later. 

 

For my money...

 

Murray Craven, Jocelyn Guevremont, Dunc Wilson, Cesare Maniago, Bob Dailey, Doug Halward, Rick Lanz, Gerry O'Flaherty, Ivan Boldirev, Steve Weeks, Chris Oddleifson, Dennis Ververgaert and Ron Sedlbauer.

[-AJ-]

43 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Cheers.

 

I think Pederson was hurt for the last part of 88-89.  Too bad, with a Game 7 overtime series, he's exactly the kind of guy that could have made a difference.

Really nice to actually hear a fan from those days speak positively of Pederson. Obviously we got shafted in the trade for him, but I always felt that despite being a bit of a disappointment, he was still a good player for us.