Top 50 Canucks of All-Time - #20

[smithers joe]

bodrias

 

g, courtnall

[IBatch]

Either Lidster or Boudrais - Lidster for now - Nominate Adams...

[Canuck Surfer]

5 hours ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Sundstrom 

 

Gino 

 

[IBatch]

5 hours ago, Kevin Biestra said:

Vote Doug Lidster.  Nominate Tiger Williams.

 

But the Gino, Kurtenbach and Skriko nominstions are all great too.  The Adams nominations are great to see as well, but I have him behind those guys.

 

However, if I gotta pick a horse to vote for, from the frontrunners in this round, it's Boudrias.

 

 

I have Lidster, Boudrias and Jovo in the top 20 already off the list...early 20's Lever, Kearns,  Sundstrom and Bieksa....  Like your nomination for Williams and mentioning Gino - not sure where to put him exactly - as far as a greatness goes he's definitely a fan favorite even to today (Gino).   That said his inclusion will bump someone out who was for sure a better player and a good player for us..for those that assume he was part of the 94 team - he wasn't he was benched in favour of Antoski, a better skater (not fighter)....these lists aren't easy.   Have him somewhere in the mid 30's for now.   Surprised to see Salo beating out guys on this list, even defenseman - he played less games then Lidster, Kearns and Bieksa - and was arguably only better then Bieksa - but I would still take KB over him anyday  because of his intangibles and better health.   Kearns was an excellent rusher and put up his points, also played a decade and put up 75 more points in 111 more games, and averaged 23 minutes....Salo was good when he played, but that wasn't often, wonder why that's forgotten so easily.   THN has him one after Hamhuis at 27 so I guess he's not that far off.   Jovo played 132 less games and scored 2 less points ... three all-star games - Olympic Gold, Babe Pratt awards etc...he should also get the nod first but at least he's getting some votes....THN had him at 16 - if he played most of his 1100 game with us no doubt he'd crack our top ten - didn't play long enough for us - personally wish the WCE era gave him the C and we kept him.

 

On Tiger- he played 4.25  seasons for us and probably has the highest PIM per game of anyone who ever played with us...what did he get? - over 1200 PIMS for us during that time (and he played between 66-77 games for us in his full seasons)...he was part of our first run to the final - and he is the leagues all time badass.  Could play the game too..he's one of a few Canucks that played 280-310 games for us and deserves a spot.  Mogilny, Courtnall, Kurtenbach, and Rota are the others...

[Kevin Biestra]

14 minutes ago, IBatch said:

I have Lidster, Boudrias and Jovo in the top 20 already off the list...early 20's Lever, Kearns,  Sundstrom and Bieksa....  Like your nomination for Williams and mentioning Gino - not sure where to put him exactly - as far as a greatness goes he's definitely a fan favorite even to today (Gino).   That said his inclusion will bump someone out who was for sure a better player and a good player for us..for those that assume he was part of the 94 team - he wasn't he was benched in favour of Antoski, a better skater (not fighter)....these lists aren't easy.   Have him somewhere in the mid 30's for now.   Surprised to see Salo beating out guys on this list, even defenseman - he played less games then Lidster, Kearns and Bieksa - and was arguably only better then Bieksa - but I would still take KB over him anyday  because of his intangibles and better health.   Kearns was an excellent rusher and put up his points, also played a decade and put up 75 more points in 111 more games, and averaged 23 minutes....Salo was good when he played, but that wasn't often, wonder why that's forgotten so easily.   THN has him one after Hamhuis at 27 so I guess he's not that far off.   Jovo played 132 less games and scored 2 less points ... three all-star games - Olympic Gold, Babe Pratt awards etc...he should also get the nod first but at least he's getting some votes....THN had him at 16 - if he played most of his 1100 game with us no doubt he'd crack our top ten - didn't play long enough for us - personally wish the WCE era gave him the C and we kept him.

 

On Tiger- he played 4.25  seasons for us and probably has the highest PIM per game of anyone who ever played with us...what did he get? - over 1200 PIMS for us during that time (and he played between 66-77 games for us in his full seasons)...he was part of our first run to the final - and he is the leagues all time badass.  Could play the game too..he's one of a few Canucks that played 280-310 games for us and deserves a spot.  Mogilny, Courtnall, Kurtenbach, and Rota are the others...

 

Tiger: 35 goals and led the league with 343 PIM one year for the Canucks.

 

I would love to see Tiger and Gino in the Ring of Honour.  They are a type of player that doesn't exist anymore in the league and never will again...that chapter of Canucks history in particular should be honoured and immortalized.

 

I've got them higher than some people probably do on my list but their job and how they did it is almost a perfect representation of being a "great Canuck" in my book.  And they were all time NHL greats at it.

 

Salo...  What I have going for him is a Cup run and being way up high on the all time playoff games list.  I think his constant injuries are reflected in his career games played, so I just take that number for what it is and don't really do any mental adjustments.  That said, I have him in the top 50 but pretty close to the bottom.

 

Yeah you nailed the 290 game-ish guys that still deserve being honoured here.  Despite a small regular season sample size, Courtnall is way up near the top of all time career Canuck playoff scorers.  That's the fire from which greatness emerges.

 

And the Lifeline (Linden Ronning Courtnall) is still my all time favorite Canuck line.

 

We've really got our work cut out for us getting Lidster some respect around here.  First that marathon to get him nominated, now this.

 

 

 

Edited April 8, 2020 by Kevin Biestra

[Baratheon]

Vote Brendan Morrison 

 

Nominate Gino! 

I have been having a lot of fun going down memory lane but I'm starting to get the itch to throw Bo Horvat in to the discussion.

[Smashian Kassian]

Voting Boudrias

 

nominating Kurtenbach

 

Wonder at what point Horvat & Pettersson get consideration. (If at all)

[Kevin Biestra]

2 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

Voting Boudrias

 

nominating Kurtenbach

 

Wonder at what point Horvat & Pettersson get consideration. (If at all)

 

I've got Petterson in 30s (can't take a Calder Trophy away from him no matter what happens) and Horvat in the 40s.  But I'm guessing they will be nominated and voted in before where they are on my list.

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Tiger: 35 goals and led the league with 343 PIM one year for the Canucks.

 

I would love to see Tiger and Gino in the Ring of Honour.  They are a type of player that doesn't exist anymore in the league and never will again...that chapter of Canucks history in particular should be honoured and immortalized.

 

I've got them higher than some people probably do on my list but their job and how they did it is almost a perfect representation of being a "great Canuck" in my book.  And they were all time NHL greats at it.

 

Salo...  What I have going for him is a Cup run and being way up high on the all time playoff games list.  I think his constant injuries are reflected in his career games played, so I just take that number for what it is and don't really do any mental adjustments.  That said, I have him in the top 50 but pretty close to the bottom.

 

Yeah you nailed the 290 game-ish guys that still deserve being honoured here.  Despite a small regular season sample size, Courtnall is way up near the top of all time career Canuck playoff scorers.  That's the fire from which greatness emerges.

 

And the Lifeline (Linden Ronning Courtnall) is still my all time favorite Canuck line.

 

We've really got our work cut out for us getting Lidster some respect around here.  First that marathon to get him nominated, now this.

 

 

 

Tiger and Gino in the ring of honour would be awesome...fortunately I remember the higlights from Gino's first game fighting first Manson (Butcher reminds me of this guy - one tough SOB - trivia but it was a throat punch from Mommeso that damaged his voice so he only talks in soft raspy notes) and earned a lot of respect for for hanging in there - and then scored a near decision against Grimson - who also became a pretty good enforcer...no player on our team ever started his career like that.  Have a soft spot for enforcers in general (not goons there is a difference) - guys that would protect our stars and keep the game clean (I'm on the side that argues that the league won't ever police itself - a rash of hand injuries came in at the same point they left the game - a rash of hand slashes - a code violation  - no coincidence there - Methot's finger came nearly clear off from one from Crosby even the stars got involved) .... of course the league had to step in but it should never of happened in the first place.   Watching old highlights the game has changed so much ... finishing your checks now has a different meaning.   Like that obstruction was finally beaten out (check out how many PP's it took to get there) and that the red-line is gone as it speeds the game up and puts an emphasis on skill..    

 

Technically with four lines rolling again things have reverted back to how they used to be pre-expansion with one glaring obmission.  After decades of enforcers on virtually every fourth line players grew up not having to protect themselves and fighting their own battles.  Aside from a small handful of "policeman" like that existed before then - who could also play the game - like Ferguson - the rest of the players were expected to get their own respect, space and fight their own battles.   When did Howe, Makita, Lindsay, Richard ever look to a Semenko, Williams, McSorely, Brashear etc to fight for them?  Never really.   Think this will come back as guys that fight and can play are more valuable then ever,...Milbury was eventually correct in his vision of league wide "pansification" who would have predicted that 20 years ago...  Maybe even a GM will go out and create a PHI re-boot one day and start the arms race again (doubtful but one can hope ha ha ).... Takes a certain type to go out and fight 20-30 times a year...bravehearts for sure - and most were loved by their teammates and fans for it.   

 

These are the top 20 enforcers off the top of my head (not including guys like Tochett, Stevens, S Stevens, Odelien, Clarke, Mommeeso, May)etc that could play the game at a higher level and fight too back in 1995ish

 

Probert, Brown, Baumgartner, Twist, Simon, Ewen, Kocur, McCarthy, Berube, Gino, Grimson, Churla, DeBrusk, Manson, McKenzie, Domi, Crowder, Ray, Kruse, Ciccone....and that's less then half the list of guys that played that role, was also a tier down that would include Antoski, Bonvie, Tamer and Brashear who was just getting started - Parker too etc   Times have sure changed.

[Kevin Biestra]

3 minutes ago, IBatch said:

These are the top 20 enforcers off the top of my head (not including guys like Tochett, Stevens, S Stevens, Odelien, Clarke, Mommeeso, May)etc that could play the game at a higher level and fight too back in 1995ish

 

Probert, Brown, Baumgartner, Twist, Simon, Ewen, Kocur, McCarthy, Berube, Gino, Grimson, Churla, DeBrusk, Manson, McKenzie, Domi, Crowder, Ray, Kruse, Ciccone....and that's less then half the list of guys that played that role, was also a tier down that would include Antoski, Bonvie, Tamer and Brashear who was just getting started - Parker too etc   Times have sure changed.

 

Stopped reading when you said what you were going to do here...we'll see what 20 I come up with off the top of my head...

 

Gino, Tiger, Probert, Crowder, Paul Baxter, Dave Schultz...  That's six.

 

Randy Holt (that guy was an animal), Alan May, Rob Ray, Dave Manson, Chris Nilan maybe, Paul Holmgren maybe, Berube, McSorley, Semenko, Twist, Kocur, Domi, Basil McRae.

 

Maybe Lou Fontinato for a little old school representation.  Hey what do you know, that's 20.

 

Craig Coxe had a short career but he was pretty good.

 

Plenty of people would probably have Brashear and Chris Simon, but I was never blown away by either.

[Master Mind]

I love Salo, but for him to crack the top 20 seems far too early. Looks like he'll do it though.

 

Voting Lever. Top 10 in Canucks scoring, hard to ignore that.

 

Nominating Geoff Courtnall. 5th in playoff scoring with 61 points in 65 games.

[Baratheon]

17 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

I've got Petterson in 30s (can't take a Calder Trophy away from him no matter what happens) and Horvat in the 40s.  But I'm guessing they will be nominated and voted in before where they are on my list.

Oooh first time that I disagree with you in a strong way haha.  Bo already has 6 seasons and 446 GP under his belt for us.  The beacon of hope during some very bad years.  The captain of the team as we were/are starting to come out of those years.  I still have some guys ahead of Bo mind you.  40's is too far if you ask me.

 

Pettersson I'll have to give some thought.  VERY small sample size.

[Kevin Biestra]

12 minutes ago, Baratheon said:

Oooh first time that I disagree with you in a strong way haha.  Bo already has 6 seasons and 446 GP under his belt for us.  The beacon of hope during some very bad years.  The captain of the team as we were/are starting to come out of those years.  I still have some guys ahead of Bo mind you.  40's is too far if you ask me.

 

Pettersson I'll have to give some thought.  VERY small sample size.

 

Interesting.

 

Well, if he retired tomorrow, I have Bo's career as basically equal to Chris Oddleifson.  Similar numbers, captain of the Canucks for a spell.  I guess I'd ask you where you have Oddleifson if you're going to put Bo high in the rankings.

 

But yeah there are guys that I think I have about 10 spots higher than they are...and then I do the rankings and mathematics just won't let me have 40 guys in the top 25.

 

Let's see...  He sits 26th all time in Canuck scoring (regular season) and that includes defensemen.  He's got another six defensemen not too far behind him.  That doesn't include any goalies.  Playoff achievements don't help him out.  Let's see...  I'm looking at that makeshift list to see who I would have to knock out in the 30-40 range to move Bo up.  Skriko, Pederson, Morrison, Adams, Bieksa, McCarthy, etc.  Can't do it.

 

And I already made some painful sacrifices to get Bo in there.  Our first 40 goal scorer Ron Sedlbauer.  2x MVP Cesare Maniago.

 

But don't worry.  I'm pretty sure your Bo ranking is going to be closer to the voting results than mine.

Edited April 8, 2020 by Kevin Biestra

[Smashian Kassian]

43 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

I've got Petterson in 30s (can't take a Calder Trophy away from him no matter what happens) and Horvat in the 40s.  But I'm guessing they will be nominated and voted in before where they are on my list.

 

Plus Pettersson in his 2nd year is a better player than alot of guys we are gunna be getting into. (And arguably came into the league as a better player)

 

Horvats captain & has been around awhile now. He's starting to climb in all-time  Canucks pts, 26th right now only 33 back of Mogilny. 

[Baratheon]

3 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Interesting.

 

Well, if he retired tomorrow, I have Bo's career as basically equal to Chris Oddleifson.  Similar numbers, captain of the Canucks for a spell.  I guess I'd ask you where you have Oddleifson if you're going to put Bo high in the rankings.

 

But yeah there are guys that I think I have about 10 spots higher than they are...and then I do the rankings and mathematics just won't let me have 40 guys in the top 25.

 

Let's see...  He sits 26th all time in Canuck scoring (regular season) and that includes defensemen.  He's got another six defensemen not too far behind him.  That doesn't include any goalies.  Playoff achievements don't help him out.  Let's see...  I'm looking at that makeshift list to see who I would have to knock out in the 30-40 range to move Bo up.  Skriko, Pederson, Morrison, Adams, Bieksa, McCarthy, etc.  Can't do it.

 

But don't worry.  I'm pretty sure your Bo ranking is going to be closer to the voting results than mine.

I would have Chris Oddleifson a fair bit lower personally.  I am admittedly less familiar with his intangibles however.  I know that Horvat is the guy who gets the hard match-ups for us but still consistently puts up 20 goals or more per year.  HE IS SUCCESSFUL WITH LOUIS ERIKSSON (drops the mic) haha jk

 

I also have to admit to you that I'm still irritated by my Ryan O'Reilly experience.  Loved and cheered him on for 3 years in Buffalo then the next year in St. Louis I had to listen to "wow can you believe this guy??"  Well yes I can... been watching it for 3 years now.  The difference is that now he's on a good team.  That's what I think we're looking at with Bo.  As soon as this team is good (and we were getting there) he will really shine.

[Smashian Kassian]

It's an interesting debate where Bo and Petterson fit in. 

 

I'm going to make my own list (finally) then I'll have a better idea of my own opinion.

 

Maybe at the end we can share our lists and compare.

[189lb enforcers?]

45 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Stopped reading when you said what you were going to do here...we'll see what 20 I come up with off the top of my head...

 

Gino, Tiger, Probert, Crowder, Paul Baxter, Dave Schultz...  That's six.

 

Randy Holt (that guy was an animal), Alan May, Rob Ray, Dave Manson, Chris Nilan maybe, Paul Holmgren maybe, Berube, McSorley, Semenko, Twist, Kocur, Domi, Basil McRae.

 

Maybe Lou Fontinato for a little old school representation.  Hey what do you know, that's 20.

 

Craig Coxe had a short career but he was pretty good.

 

Plenty of people would probably have Brashear and Chris Simon, but I was never blown away by either.

The missing Link was awesome too. 
McGratton was a beast and another freak that probably was the best pure Goon, tied with The Boogie Man. 
 

Had Chara been paid to be a goon, who knows how many prison sentences he’d be serving. 
 

Laraque was also too nice and lucky for his opponents. 
 

I think Brashear was the most overrated fighter. The original Huggy Bear - an ear puncher, until he got loose. 
 

Tinordi and co were absolutely the toughest players I can list, but I digress. 
 

Gino not being in the top 20 is a crime. 
 

Other than Bure, who would fans cheer for the most today? A small handful of ex Canucks might revive the same applause as Gino. Isn’t that Greatness? Come on guys, Salo? Over Gino? Again, who would get the bigger applause? Seems way too obvious. 
 

Philly vs Van 

8-0 loss

700 fights lol 

 

https://www.broadstreethockey.com/2019/10/12/20910747/return-flight-a-new-years-eve-thumping-vs-vancouver-eric-lindros-john-leclair-gino-odjick-was-bad

 

 

Edited April 8, 2020 by 189lb enforcers?

[kchengc]

Voted Lidster.  Nominate Greg Adams

[Baratheon]

3 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

The missing Link was awesome too. 
McGratton was a beast and another freak that probably was the best pure good tied with The Boogie Man. 
 

Had Chara been paid to be a goon, who knows how many prison sentences he’d be serving. 
 

Laraque was also too nice and lucky for his opponents. 
 

I think Brashear was the most overrated fighter. The original Huggy Bear - an ear puncher, until he got loose. 
 

Tinordi and co were absolutely the toughest players I can list, but I digress. 
 

Gino not being in the top 20 is a crime. 
 

Other than Bure, who would fans cheer for the most today? A small handful of ex Canucks might revive the same applause as Gino. Isn’t that Greatness? Come on guys, Salo? Over Gino? Again, who would get the bigger applause? Seems way too obvious. 

It's so hard to quantify intangibles.  Gino is tricky, Snepsts was tricky (less so for me but same idea) Morrison is tricky.  It's part of my argument with Bo Horvat as well.

All part of why I'm loving this series though!  Fun conversations for sure.  I feel like I'm learning about a team that I already felt so close to.

 

As for your discussion on enforcers.  Did any of them have bras whipped at them?  That's what I thought!  Jeff Cowan baby! lol 

[Kevin Biestra]

Just now, Baratheon said:

It's so hard to quantify intangibles.  Gino is tricky, Snepsts was tricky (less so for me but same idea) Morrison is tricky.  It's part of my argument with Bo Horvat as well.

All part of why I'm loving this series though!  Fun conversations for sure.  I feel like I'm learning about a team that I already felt so close to.

 

As for your discussion on enforcers.  Did any of them have bras whipped at them?  That's what I thought!  Jeff Cowan baby! lol 

 

I don't know but I heard Mark Messier wears a bra.