Unique solution to our cap challenges x 2 compliance buyouts

[smithers joe]

if we got 2 compliance buyouts, i’ld like to see them go to ericksson and luongo’s cap hit. 9 mil

trade baertschi and right to stecher and leivo. about 7 mil

one of markstrom, tanev or toffoli would have to go. approx 5 mil

the following year whey petey and hughes need new deals, sutter, pearson, edler, benn and spooner’s cap hit will be done. about 17 mil.

problem is, every team is in the same boat. 

without trades, buy outs the canucks have a cap hit of about 64 mil with about 17, 500 left to sign our ufa and rfa. 

we can’t hit every deal than would help, but benji will figure it out.

plus we’ll lose someone to seattle.

Edited April 19, 2020 by smithers joe

[GhostsOf1994]

4 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

a trade would be prohibitive, we have some really good prospects but its not like we can flush many more of them just to make potentially lateral moves.

 

To me the only disappointment from the d group last year was Benn, he really stunk some nights. I'd look at moving him out, and parting ways with Fantenberg as we have guys from Utica that can fill Fanta's role. Stecher might be a casualty of the cap, we have to wait and see if there's going to be a compliance buyout or not.

 

I guess you could see a signing of Barrie over Tanev? 

 

 

I've never personally liked Barrie, but I'm not GM nor ownership.

 

If it comes down to the top ufa RHD I'd throw whatever i could at Pietrangelo to get him in Vancouver 

 

Miller Pettersson Boeser 

Pearson Horvat Toffoli 

Ferland Gaudette Virtanen 

Roussell Beagle Macewan 

Motte

 

 

Hughes Pietrangelo 

Edler Myers

OJ Tryamkin

Brisebois/Sautner Rafferty

 

Demko

Marky

 

 

Out: Baertschi Eriksson Sutter Stecher Tanev Fantenberg Leivo edit Benn

 

Then i awoke and it was all just a dreaaaam

 

 

Edited April 19, 2020 by GhostsOf1994
Bennjamin

[JM_]

15 minutes ago, GhostsOf1994 said:

Hughes Pietrangelo 

Edler Myers

OJ Tryamkin

Brisebois/Sautner Rafferty

yeah Pietrangelo would be a hell of an add. Just don't see why he'd leave STL but he is an Ontario boy... maybe Toffoli and Bo and convince him  

 

It would be worth losing Tanev and Stecher for him tho, as much as I love the heart those guys have.

 

Thats a nice looking d group tho. 

[GhostsOf1994]

6 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

yeah Pietrangelo would be a hell of an add. Just don't see why he'd leave STL but he is an Ontario boy... maybe Toffoli and Bo and convince him  

 

It would be worth losing Tanev and Stecher for him tho, as much as I love the heart those guys have.

 

Thats a nice looking d group tho. 

Since the blues have arguably the best rhd in the league and only 6 million in cap space for next season, Pietrangelo or Parayko are gone.

 

Recently added faulk to that core, Pietrangelo cap space?

 

Dunn Pietrangelo 

Gunnarsson Parayko

Scandella Faulk 

Bortuzzo

 

Edit

 

Aqua = italian

Pietrangelo = italian

 

MAKE IT HAPPEN GMJB AND AQUAFINA!

Edited April 19, 2020 by GhostsOf1994

[BigTramFan]

On ‎4‎/‎20‎/‎2020 at 9:19 AM, GhostsOf1994 said:

Since the blues have arguably the best rhd in the league and only 6 million in cap space for next season, Pietrangelo or Parayko are gone.

 

Recently added faulk to that core, Pietrangelo cap space?

 

Dunn Pietrangelo 

Gunnarsson Parayko

Scandella Faulk 

Bortuzzo

 

Edit

 

Aqua = italian

Pietrangelo = italian

 

MAKE IT HAPPEN GMJB AND AQUAFINA!

Haha you guys are funny, posting that Piet signs in VAN in a "solution to our cap problems" thread - love it!!

 

But I agree Pietrangelo is not staying in STL. They cannot really afford the $10-12m and will likely keep Parayko and Faulk as long term cost controlled options.

 

I can see Piet signing with WPG they have the cap space and could use a 1RD, their D could be something like:

Morrissey Pietrangelo

Kulikov Pionk

Niku Demelo

Beauileu Poolman 

 

 

[GhostsOf1994]

12 hours ago, BigTramFan said:

Haha you guys are funny, posting that Piet signs in VAN in a "solution to our cap problems" thread - love it!!

 

But I agree Pietrangelo is not staying in STL. They cannot really afford the $10-12m and will likely keep Parayko and Faulk as long term cost controlled options.

 

I can see Piet signing with WPG they have the cap space and could use a 1RD, their D could be something like:

Morrissey Pietrangelo

Kulikov Pionk

Niku Demelo

Beauileu Poolman 

 

 

I like the peg and all but... 

 

They have trouble keeping players as is, trouba, buff, Hayes, Myers, stastny to name a few. 

 

How many top ufa sign in the peg? 0

 

So the top ufa d man won't be going to the peg.

[BigTramFan]

7 hours ago, GhostsOf1994 said:

I like the peg and all but... 

 

They have trouble keeping players as is, trouba, buff, Hayes, Myers, stastny to name a few. 

 

How many top ufa sign in the peg? 0

 

So the top ufa d man won't be going to the peg.

I don't like the Peg, but my point is more about "who can afford to pay for Piet"? And which team fits his age?

Ideally he would be going to a contender (since he is in his prime at 30 years old) that can afford say $11m.

He is not a good fit for a rebuilding team that has cap space but is looking to contend in 3-5 years.

Which teams fit the definition of a contender with space?

Only team I can think of is WPG.

[GhostsOf1994]

1 hour ago, BigTramFan said:

I don't like the Peg, but my point is more about "who can afford to pay for Piet"? And which team fits his age?

Ideally he would be going to a contender (since he is in his prime at 30 years old) that can afford say $11m.

He is not a good fit for a rebuilding team that has cap space but is looking to contend in 3-5 years.

Which teams fit the definition of a contender with space?

Only team I can think of is VANCOUVER!

Fixed it for ya! 

[komodo0921]

On 4/14/2020 at 12:38 PM, Mapleridge54 said:

There's a growing sentiment around league sources suggesting the NHL may consider allowing teams to utilize compliance buy-outs as a solution to many of the teams struggling with what is expected to be a tight next year as we recover from the effects of COVID-19.

 

Assuming teams were permitted to utilize 2 compliance buy-outs, Vancouver's obvious first choice would be Loui Eriksson and his $6 M cap hit for the next two years. The next most likely option would arguably be Brandon Sutter with his $4.4 M cap hit for next year.  With the emergence of Adam Gaudette this makes perfect sense.  However, I would suggest this is the easy solution, but not necessarily the best solution.  I realize this will sound crazy and will require ownership to swallow a tough pill, but what if we considered exercising our second compliance buy-out on Tyler Myers?  I'm not suggesting he's played poorly, but I'm not sure he's going to be worth $6 M for each of the next 4 years with all the developing talent we have been blessed with.  Just looking at next year alone we have emerging talents in Jack Rathbone, Brogan Rafferty, Olli Juolevi and Nikita Tryamkin expressing interest in returning.  In such a scenario, we'd undoubtedly be looking to re-up Chris Tanev at likely a reasonable dollar value for 1-3 years.  We can debate the merits of where and if Stecher, Benn and Fantenburg fit, but probably not the bigger picture question right now.  Its not so much an issue of ownership having to say they've made a mistake in signing Myers but rather, circumstances have changed, we are now blessed with a growing number of talented young players, some of which will be with us for years to come and its now necessary for us to revise our plans.

 

I know this all sounds crazy but the underlying benefit is these two compliance buy-outs would free up $12 M immediately and then after the completion of the 20/21 season another $12 M would fall off the books as the following salaries and buy-outs come to and end; Sutter ($4.4 M), Pearson ($3.8 M), Baertschi ($3.4 M) and Spooner ($1 M).  This would free up a further $12 M in salary within another 15 months, totaling $24 M in that time frame.  Sure someone like Tanner Pearson maybe someone we wish to re-up at the end of the 20/21 season, but at least we would now have the option to see how the youngsters have developed by that time such as Cole Lind, Vasily Podkolzin, NIls Hoglander and has Jake Virtanen finally realized his full potential or at least become that reliable, hardnosed, hard-skating, defensibly responsible 3rd line player we've been hoping for.

 

By exercising these first two compliance buy-outs on Eriksson and Myers, we'd be in the position to re-sign Markstrom ($6.5 M x 4 years), Toffoli ($6 M x 4-5 years), Tanev ($4 M x 2 years), Gaudette ($2.5 M x 2 years), Virtanen ($3.5 M x 3 years).  Don't see a place for Josh Leivo any longer unfortunately.

 

Looking forward to hearing some criticism and feedback

While I think it unanimous that Eriksson draws top vote for buyout, imo, Beagle should be our second (if we get two).

Jay still has skills and attributes that are desired in todays game; Mainly his face off success and gritty attitude but, my biggest concern is his production. 

Looking at his on ice statistics shows 15 goals for and 43 goals against. That's a huge gap.

While some of it can be attributed to his linemates, namely Eriksson, Motte (who I have as a third man gone), and Macewen, a lot of it has to be put on him.

I've posted before about how invisible he is on most nights and I think this single stat really says a lot.

If that stat is even dropped to 33 goals against; How many more wins does that translate to?

If we did drop Beagle, Sutter could be slotted into that 4C spot for the final season of his contract.

Macewen showed some great potential over his last few games. Having a more offensively minded Center could raise his game even more and maybe give him some pointers to playing center.

Grooming Zack to be our 4C wouldn't be a bad idea, at all.

As for re-signs, Marky at 6.5 is a stretch, imo, and is a place I wouldn't want to go. He's recently said he wants to stay. I'd go 5 x5.5 and be happy.

The Toffoli deal is probably where we'd have to be and would be one I'd be happy with.

Tanev at 2 yrs would be great but, I think he'll be looking for term which I hope JB won't do. With young defenders coming, I'd be reluctant to sign him longer term.

Gaudette could be a great player to go for a value contract. 5x3 mil. Does he go for it? I doubt it but, worth a shot.

Otherwise proposed deal looks right.

Jake is one I wouldn't mind seeing go to rfa. I can't remember who said it but, it was said that Jake's value could exceed 4 mil. If this is the case and a team does sign him to an offer sheet reflecting this, it could bring a first rounder our way in compensation. Depending on who the signing team is, this could be very attractive.

If no-one shows interest of this level, it could hurt his value which brings about another value contract situation.

Unfortunately, my opinion's the same for Leivo. He has been good but, he doesn't bring anything we don't already have in better options.

[Lazurus]

On 4/25/2020 at 7:09 PM, komodo0921 said:

On 4/14/2020 at 7:38 PM, Mapleridge54 said:

There's a growing sentiment around league sources suggesting the NHL may consider allowing teams to utilize compliance buy-outs as a solution to many of the teams struggling with what is expected to be a tight next year as we recover from the effects of COVID-19.

 

Assuming teams were permitted to utilize 2 compliance buy-outs, Vancouver's obvious first choice would be Loui Eriksson and his $6 M cap hit for the next two years. The next most likely option would arguably be Brandon Sutter with his $4.4 M cap hit for next year.  With the emergence of Adam Gaudette this makes perfect sense.  However, I would suggest this is the easy solution, but not necessarily the best solution.  I realize this will sound crazy and will require ownership to swallow a tough pill, but what if we considered exercising our second compliance buy-out on Tyler Myers?  I'm not suggesting he's played poorly, but I'm not sure he's going to be worth $6 M for each of the next 4 years with all the developing talent we have been blessed with.  Just looking at next year alone we have emerging talents in Jack Rathbone, Brogan Rafferty, Olli Juolevi and Nikita Tryamkin expressing interest in returning.  In such a scenario, we'd undoubtedly be looking to re-up Chris Tanev at likely a reasonable dollar value for 1-3 years.  We can debate the merits of where and if Stecher, Benn and Fantenburg fit, but probably not the bigger picture question right now.  Its not so much an issue of ownership having to say they've made a mistake in signing Myers but rather, circumstances have changed, we are now blessed with a growing number of talented young players, some of which will be with us for years to come and its now necessary for us to revise our plans.

 

I know this all sounds crazy but the underlying benefit is these two compliance buy-outs would free up $12 M immediately and then after the completion of the 20/21 season another $12 M would fall off the books as the following salaries and buy-outs come to and end; Sutter ($4.4 M), Pearson ($3.8 M), Baertschi ($3.4 M) and Spooner ($1 M).  This would free up a further $12 M in salary within another 15 months, totaling $24 M in that time frame.  Sure someone like Tanner Pearson maybe someone we wish to re-up at the end of the 20/21 season, but at least we would now have the option to see how the youngsters have developed by that time such as Cole Lind, Vasily Podkolzin, NIls Hoglander and has Jake Virtanen finally realized his full potential or at least become that reliable, hardnosed, hard-skating, defensibly responsible 3rd line player we've been hoping for.

 

By exercising these first two compliance buy-outs on Eriksson and Myers, we'd be in the position to re-sign Markstrom ($6.5 M x 4 years), Toffoli ($6 M x 4-5 years), Tanev ($4 M x 2 years), Gaudette ($2.5 M x 2 years), Virtanen ($3.5 M x 3 years).  Don't see a place for Josh Leivo any longer unfortunately.

 

Looking forward to hearing some criticism and feedback

While I think it unanimous that Eriksson draws top vote for buyout, imo, Beagle should be our second (if we get two).

Jay still has skills and attributes that are desired in todays game; Mainly his face off success and gritty attitude but, my biggest concern is his production. 

Looking at his on ice statistics shows 15 goals for and 43 goals against. That's a huge gap.

While some of it can be attributed to his linemates, namely Eriksson, Motte (who I have as a third man gone), and Macewen, a lot of it has to be put on him.

I've posted before about how invisible he is on most nights and I think this single stat really says a lot.

If that stat is even dropped to 33 goals against; How many more wins does that translate to?

If we did drop Beagle, Sutter could be slotted into that 4C spot for the final season of his contract.

Macewen showed some great potential over his last few games. Having a more offensively minded Center could raise his game even more and maybe give him some pointers to playing center.

Grooming Zack to be our 4C wouldn't be a bad idea, at all.

As for re-signs, Marky at 6.5 is a stretch, imo, and is a place I wouldn't want to go. He's recently said he wants to stay. I'd go 5 x5.5 and be happy.

The Toffoli deal is probably where we'd have to be and would be one I'd be happy with.

Tanev at 2 yrs would be great but, I think he'll be looking for term which I hope JB won't do. With young defenders coming, I'd be reluctant to sign him longer term.

Gaudette could be a great player to go for a value contract. 5x3 mil. Does he go for it? I doubt it but, worth a shot.

Otherwise proposed deal looks right.

Jake is one I wouldn't mind seeing go to rfa. I can't remember who said it but, it was said that Jake's value could exceed 4 mil. If this is the case and a team does sign him to an offer sheet reflecting this, it could bring a first rounder our way in compensation. Depending on who the signing team is, this could be very attractive.

If no-one shows interest of this level, it could hurt his value which brings about another value contract situation.

Unfortunately, my opinion's the same for Leivo. He has been good but, he doesn't bring anything we don't already have in better options.

Eriksson is a no brainer.

 

There might not be any buyouts, the NHLPA might decline this option because it affects the escrow. I am not sure how but there was something I heard about that on the radio the other day.

 

Even with 2 buyouts the Canucks are still in cap trouble. Currently with the guaranteed contracts they have are over the cap by 8 to 9 million if all players are healthy and they still have bonuses and cap recapture to subtract from next years cap. They can't keep burying players in Utica.

 

This team was a one off that almost made the playoffs at a cost of a 1rst round and 2 2nd round picks plus the cap hell.

[IBatch]

LE is obvious...won’t cost the owners much he’s already or soon to be paid the bulk of his contract.   No way on Myers, solid RHDs are hard to fine and his contract is more then fair.     Elder went down and Myers played his best hockey this year during that span, even won a spot on the second PP unit.    And it was no coincidence for the first time in forever both Tanev and Edler were relatively healthy...because he was taking hard minutes away from them.  Myers is a decent second pairing second pairing defenseman - can’t believe how much flak the guy has received...well then again look at how much Eagle endured during our down years so it’s not that surprising really.  QH and Myers were massive upgrades on Hutton and Gudbranson.   I highly doubt two buyouts will occur.  It’s possible the NHPLA will agree to one but two is a big hit on escrow, which is already likely to go way up if fans can’t go to games this fall.   Not to mention all the revenue lost with close to 200 games not played without fans and the playoff revenue all but caput.    Players still got paid - but didn’t produce.   Must be nice to have an employer like that.    Given all the work the league has done to get hockey back as soon as possible the players might be willing you never know - but the owners might say forget it as well.  
 

Anyways it’s a fun exercise. IF this happens and there is the regular two year timeline, if I was JB I’d payout LE and save the other one for when it’s really needed.   Don’t think AG is ready to take on cantering the third line full-time yet, Maddens gone so no center depth in the future worth talking about other then Podz moving there (which is a very real possibility).    Most our vets are done after next year anyways ... maybe Ferland if he’s healthy could be bought out but that could be a total waste if he goes back on the LTIR or actually plays and plays well for us right?  
 

Pearson is a perfect player to trade ATM, his stock is high, we have a glut of wingers and it’s debatable if he will get another contract with EP and QHs coming up soon.  To clear cap don’t sign Leivo and make a trade with a player that someone would actually want - love Pearson on the team but he’s expendable and his stock is higher then ever right now.   That should pay for Markstrom and JV right there. 

[IBatch]

On 4/21/2020 at 8:25 PM, BigTramFan said:

I don't like the Peg, but my point is more about "who can afford to pay for Piet"? And which team fits his age?

Ideally he would be going to a contender (since he is in his prime at 30 years old) that can afford say $11m.

He is not a good fit for a rebuilding team that has cap space but is looking to contend in 3-5 years.

Which teams fit the definition of a contender with space?

Only team I can think of is WPG.

Somehow since expansion,  NYR and to a lesser degree TO seem to be the place most marquee UFAs or players go through at one point.   Obviously the cap changed that significantly- but it still is happening.    The late 90’s early 2000 NYR teams on paper were at times absolutely ridiculous.   Easily matched the 2002 Detroit team - really quite hilarious given it just never seemed to click.    Point is if a team REALLY wants him - they will clear the cap space to fit him in.    NYR is always in the conversation as a destination, with Panarin and some good young players their rebuild could become one of the shortest in recent memory.   It’s their model and they’ve been doing it for decades now.   When did they go to the final with Lundqvist again?  2017?  2016?  Not that long ago.  Trouba, Panarin and Kakko is quite the haul in a 12 month period.  Three core players - one a Hart candidate who has a decent chance of winning it (best 5 x 5 stats of the group).    
 

St. Louis could also move Faulk and one other guy and just keep him at home.   They have lots of guys that other teams would be happy to have.  

[Junkyard Dog]

If we get 2 buyouts STL will be too and will be able to re-sign Pietrangelo.

[BigTramFan]

14 hours ago, IBatch said:

Somehow since expansion,  NYR and to a lesser degree TO seem to be the place most marquee UFAs or players go through at one point.   Obviously the cap changed that significantly- but it still is happening.    The late 90’s early 2000 NYR teams on paper were at times absolutely ridiculous.   Easily matched the 2002 Detroit team - really quite hilarious given it just never seemed to click.    Point is if a team REALLY wants him - they will clear the cap space to fit him in.    NYR is always in the conversation as a destination, with Panarin and some good young players their rebuild could become one of the shortest in recent memory.   It’s their model and they’ve been doing it for decades now.   When did they go to the final with Lundqvist again?  2017?  2016?  Not that long ago.  Trouba, Panarin and Kakko is quite the haul in a 12 month period.  Three core players - one a Hart candidate who has a decent chance of winning it (best 5 x 5 stats of the group).    
 

St. Louis could also move Faulk and one other guy and just keep him at home.   They have lots of guys that other teams would be happy to have.  

Everything you say is possible, except Faulk's new contract has a NTC for the next five seasons, so he's not going anywhere!

 

STL really look like they have set things up for Parayko and Faulk to be their new 1RD and 2RD for the foreseeable future. 

 

But if they really want to keep Pietrangelo they could do this:

1. Buy out the final years of Steen and Bozak's contracts. This would clear $5.1m of cap space. Bringing STL down to $73.4m cap total with 13F, 5D, 2G signed.

2. To round out a 20 man roster with 7 Dmen they would have $8.1m left to resign both Pietrangelo and Dunn.

3. If they can get Pietrangelo for about $7m (seems too low for Piet to accept tho) then they would need to:

4. Trade Dunn and bring in a ELC Dman (because Dunn is expected to be earning around $2.5-3.0m next season) 

 

Pietrangelo Parayko

Scandella Faulk

Gunnarsson Bortuzzo

(ELC Dman)

 

The above would be reasonable moves but then there will be a bunch of young RFAs in 2021 that STL will have to resign plus a new contract for Schwartz, so I think they will be looking to save the Steen + Bozak cap space in 2021-22 for those guys.

 

This all leads me to believe that STL have made their decision on Pietrangelo and that they can't afford to keep him. Their D corps next season still looks pretty good without him:

Scandella Faulk

Dunn Parayko

Gunnarsson Bortuzzo

(ELC Dman)

[IBatch]

6 hours ago, BigTramFan said:

Everything you say is possible, except Faulk's new contract has a NTC for the next five seasons, so he's not going anywhere!

 

STL really look like they have set things up for Parayko and Faulk to be their new 1RD and 2RD for the foreseeable future. 

 

But if they really want to keep Pietrangelo they could do this:

1. Buy out the final years of Steen and Bozak's contracts. This would clear $5.1m of cap space. Bringing STL down to $73.4m cap total with 13F, 5D, 2G signed.

2. To round out a 20 man roster with 7 Dmen they would have $8.1m left to resign both Pietrangelo and Dunn.

3. If they can get Pietrangelo for about $7m (seems too low for Piet to accept tho) then they would need to:

4. Trade Dunn and bring in a ELC Dman (because Dunn is expected to be earning around $2.5-3.0m next season) 

 

Pietrangelo Parayko

Scandella Faulk

Gunnarsson Bortuzzo

(ELC Dman)

 

The above would be reasonable moves but then there will be a bunch of young RFAs in 2021 that STL will have to resign plus a new contract for Schwartz, so I think they will be looking to save the Steen + Bozak cap space in 2021-22 for those guys.

 

This all leads me to believe that STL have made their decision on Pietrangelo and that they can't afford to keep him. Their D corps next season still looks pretty good without him:

Scandella Faulk

Dunn Parayko

Gunnarsson Bortuzzo

(ELC Dman)

Yeah it looks like they would be stuck with Faulk...if they want to sign AP Parayko might  have to be moved for something cheaper (guy on ELC maybe) ... a lot of teams would be interested in that.    All this makes sense (the above)...would be hard to move on the from the team leader, especially after winning a cup.   He’s making 6.5 now, a 2.5 raise seems likely, on the market he could command Subban type money ... then again Carlson signed for 8 so maybe he’d be ok with a small raise of 1.5 just to keep the band together...shouldn’t be to hard to find 1.5-2.5 million ...  but one things for sure that will be one expensive right side if they keep him.   And it probably means the writings on the wall for Parayko too, when he’s up in a couple years.   I think they will keep him and deal with the cap issues as they come up as a result.   Hes one of the leagues best RHDs, consistently scores around 45-50 points year in year out and seems to be getting better with age.   Could easily be one of these defenseman (Burns, Lidstrom, Schneider, Visnovsky) that has their best seasons in their 30’s.  
 

Rumours are they want him locked in at an OEL type deal, 8.25 x 8.    If they do some serious damage again this playoffs  I think he will be signed for sure.   If not then still think they will make it work.  He’s a cornerstone they won’t replace.   Have to admit the Faulk deal is a head scratcher.  He’s not very good defensively, never has been, does add scoring from the d for sure (goals especially)....I guess WNP did it with Byfuglien, Trouba and Myers...but that didn’t work out so good for them at all did it?