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[Discussion] Will a Team Fold and Relocate?

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Posted (edited)

This is a legitimate concern going forward.  There are a few dicey franchises and some owners who will be unduly affected by all this.

Does this mean that we could be looking at a team moving to Quebec in the very near future?  They have an NHL ready arena to jump into.

Houston has an owner who wants a team and owns the arena which could be quickly converted to allow hockey.

Edited by Provost

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i doubt quebec our dollars gunna be low when this pandemic and recession are over. can't see quebec happening at this time.  Arizona probably moving to Houston, but I can't see board of governors let a big payday like that slip away. so houston for expansion for sure. portland some day too. maybe even austin

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Posted (edited)

If so, how would Seattle react? Would they want a relocated team? Will they still have to pay the full fee, even with lower than expected revenues?

Edited by RWMc1
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2 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

I'll be surprised it if happens given how the NHL fought so hard for a floundering franchise like Phoenix/Arizona. NHL will bend over backwards to keep it's teams afloat. 

 

Gotta thing Houston/Quebec are the easy options if it comes down to it though. 

I am sure they will do everything they can do not have it happen.. but we could literally be in a spot where some owners can't make payrolls or basically want out from taking those kinds of losses.  
On the good side, they have some expansion money as a short term to keeps things afloat... but is the league going to want to give that money to Melnyk and then face him possibly running more of a joke of a franchise going forward because he is in even more tenuous financial circumstances?  In that case they can find new ownership, but in some cities maybe not.

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1 minute ago, RWMc1 said:

If so, how would Seattle react? Would they want a relocated team? Will they still have to pay the full fee, even with lower than expected revenues?

Relocated teams would have to still pay a huge relocation fee... the question is are there ownership groups in those places that are willing to take a big initial financial hit to secure a very hard to come by franchise?  The answer to me is probably so, once they have the team they can spend years recovering that initial outlay... just like Seattle will recoup its expansion fee over a long time period.

The question would be timing.  They probably wouldn't want to relocate a team in the expansion year and take away the news cycle from Seattle, so does that mean the league takes over control of a franchise for a little while and pushes relocation until the year after?  If it is a huge emergency do they move a team to Quebec really early for the coming season?

It is going to be interesting to see how this all pans out.  Houston may be one of the places where they can't take on a new franchise right now because the oil industry is in the tank badly.

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7 minutes ago, Provost said:

I am sure they will do everything they can do not have it happen.. but we could literally be in a spot where some owners can't make payrolls or basically want out from taking those kinds of losses.  
On the good side, they have some expansion money as a short term to keeps things afloat... but is the league going to want to give that money to Melnyk and then face him possibly running more of a joke of a franchise going forward because he is in even more tenuous financial circumstances?  In that case they can find new ownership, but in some cities maybe not.

That's a fair point, some of these owners aren't as wealthy as others. And in most cases it's likely not a single guy making the call. I'd love to see Melynk somehow lose his franchise, Ottawa deserves an owner who gives a $&!#. 

 

You think Ottawa would be at risk? Arizona's an obvious one, maybe Florida but their newest own has deeper pockets. 

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4 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

That's a fair point, some of these owners aren't as wealthy as others. And in most cases it's likely not a single guy making the call. I'd love to see Melynk somehow lose his franchise, Ottawa deserves an owner who gives a $&!#. 

 

You think Ottawa would be at risk? Arizona's an obvious one, maybe Florida but their newest own has deeper pockets. 

I think there are a lot of real questions regarding his finances.

A few months ago he was sued by a casino after a one day million dollar gambling spree and his payments bounced.  He has been sued for fraud and basically isn't allowed to be running companies that are traded on the stock market.  The Lebreton Flats arena deal fell apart because he wasn't paying his half of the bills for it.  I don't think the franchise is in danger of relocating, but his ownsership could be in question for sure.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Provost said:

I think there are a lot of real questions regarding his finances.

A few months ago he was sued by a casino after a one day million dollar gambling spree and his payments bounced.  He has been sued for fraud and basically isn't allowed to be running companies that are traded on the stock market.  The Lebreton Flats arena deal fell apart because he wasn't paying his half of the bills for it.  I don't think the franchise is in danger of relocating, but his ownsership could be in question for sure.

I do recall hearing about that. I'm honestly surprised the league hasn't stepped in in some capacity. Although who knows, if they were to do that we likely wouldn't hear about it.

 

Him as an owner is bad PR. 

 

I agree with them not being danger of relocation, but I wonder about him. He's held on to the franchise this long. It'd be nice if he just sold it to pay his dept. I think his ego will have him holding on to the Sens until the league somehow force him out though.

Edited by Coconuts

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Posted (edited)

League should have forced Melnyk to sell after the Heritage Classic debacle. It's damaging to the league's image to have an owner who clearly doesn't give a rat's ass if he fields a competitive lineup.  When your own fans would rather spend money on a campaign to get you to sell to a real owner, that should show how much of a worthless bum you truly are.  If I was that sucker who wasted part of his liver on him, I'd be insisting on getting it back.

 

If I'm a Sens fan, I'd rather roll the dice that the new owner would relocate instead of seeing their CERB mooching parasite continue to field an AHL quality team.  I think the virus might be the best chance of getting rid of Melnyk, either through poverty or through him contracting the virus and no one in the hospital wanting to waste a respirator on him.

 

 

Edited by King Heffy
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1 hour ago, King Heffy said:

League should have forced Melnyk to sell after the Heritage Classic debacle. It's damaging to the league's image to have an owner who clearly doesn't give a rat's ass if he fields a competitive lineup.  When your own fans would rather spend money on a campaign to get you to sell to a real owner, that should show how much of a worthless bum you truly are.  If I was that sucker who wasted part of his liver on him, I'd be insisting on getting it back.

 

If I'm a Sens fan, I'd rather roll the dice that the new owner would relocate instead of seeing their CERB mooching parasite continue to field an AHL quality team.  I think the virus might be the best chance of getting rid of Melnyk, either through poverty or through him contracting the virus and no one in the hospital wanting to waste a respirator on him.

 

 

If they have to relocate a team or two, finding a way to punt Melnyk as an owner can be buried in those "post virus issues" headlines... so if he doesn't voluntarily sell because he is broke, then it isn't impossible that they step in.  He is going to want his big chunk of the expansion dough though.

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3 minutes ago, Provost said:

If they have to relocate a team or two, finding a way to punt Melnyk as an owner can be buried in those "post virus issues" headlines... so if he doesn't voluntarily sell because he is broke, then it isn't impossible that they step in.  He is going to want his big chunk of the expansion dough though.

Wouldn't be surprised to see a team or 2 temporarily relocated if certain states struggle more than others,too.  If NYC's still screwed but the rest of the USA has things under control, that might be something the league looks at.

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Between league revenue sharing, expansion fees, wage roll-backs, and possible bonus compliance buy-outs I feel they'll find a way to keep all current franchises financially viable.  One thing that's not discussed much, but I overheard on some financial podcast I was listening to a few weeks ago (but can't find now) is that some of these owners have their franchises insured for these types of eventualities - but it's not being discussed much because the season is just on pause, not totally cancelled yet so nobody is in a position to collect insurance.  

 

If the league moved heaven and earth for over a decade to keep Arizona viable, surely they're not going to just cut franchises loose over one partially cancelled season.   

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1 hour ago, Fanuck said:

 

 

If the league moved heaven and earth for over a decade to keep Arizona viable, surely they're not going to just cut franchises loose over one partially cancelled season.   

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1 hour ago, Fanuck said:

Between league revenue sharing, expansion fees, wage roll-backs, and possible bonus compliance buy-outs I feel they'll find a way to keep all current franchises financially viable.  One thing that's not discussed much, but I overheard on some financial podcast I was listening to a few weeks ago (but can't find now) is that some of these owners have their franchises insured for these types of eventualities - but it's not being discussed much because the season is just on pause, not totally cancelled yet so nobody is in a position to collect insurance.  

 

If the league moved heaven and earth for over a decade to keep Arizona viable, surely they're not going to just cut franchises loose over one partially cancelled season.   

I agree with this ^. It'll be cheaper for the league to help out existing franchises where they are, vs. starting something up in a new arena. I just can't see the low Quebec dollar generating enough revenue even if the area was full. Maybe a US team moving from a crap market to a bigger place like Houston? hard to say. Two NHL teams in Texas just seems odd to me :lol:

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Fanuck said:

Between league revenue sharing, expansion fees, wage roll-backs, and possible bonus compliance buy-outs I feel they'll find a way to keep all current franchises financially viable.  One thing that's not discussed much, but I overheard on some financial podcast I was listening to a few weeks ago (but can't find now) is that some of these owners have their franchises insured for these types of eventualities - but it's not being discussed much because the season is just on pause, not totally cancelled yet so nobody is in a position to collect insurance.  

 

If the league moved heaven and earth for over a decade to keep Arizona viable, surely they're not going to just cut franchises loose over one partially cancelled season.   

I think your premise of just "one partially cancelled season" is flawed.

There are almost certainly big economic ripple effects that will be long term.  We don't even know if next season is going to start normally yet, there are jurisdictions who have said no live events until 2021.  The corporate money that keeps the league going is almost certainly going to be really hard to come by and vastly reduced.  In the US if they have to make choices to pull back some money from their advertising/hospitality budgets it won't be evenly taken from each sport..they will stick with the NFL/NBA/NASCAR but pul totally out of a lesser interest league like the NHL.  Teams that are struggling to attract fans are also going to have to contend with the fact their few fans may be in debt, or just too gunshy to go to a big live venue..

The owners have to pay all the expenses out of their 50%, travel, hotels, arena costs, basic overhead, etc... if their 50% reduces by 1/4 or 1/3 then they just can't pay all those bills.  Lots of them are fixed costs.

It just isn't as simple and easy as you dismiss it.

Edited by Provost

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The elephant in the room deserves mention: The USA $ maintaining status as the world's reserve currency. What if it ever crashes?

 

How do other regions/nations feel when the Fed can just type up 10 TRILLION smackers to temporarily keep the charade going?

 

Sooner or later, the paper everyone yearns for, becomes monopoly $

It's a sacred domino which sets off everything, so impossible to anticipate what would follow next. What happens to other currencies? Do societal elites(like pro athlete-stars) want something beyond mere monopoly bux, to compensate their efforts?

 

If we(the general society) can just print CASHHHH in times of need/duress, why not just hand 2 billion to Bettman/his minions & sort all these worries today?

The buck stops...where?! No one knows.

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Posted (edited)

It would never happen. But....

 

Take the $650 million Seattle expansion fee. 

Give the Arizona and Florida owners $110 million a piece to fold their teams. 

The remaining $430 million goes to the 29 other owners = Each owner gets $14.827 million. 

Instead of an expansion draft.

Seattle gets first choice of the players from Arizona and Florida. 12 Forwards, 6 defencemen and 2 goalies. 

The rest of players Seattle doesn't want goes into a dispersal draft for the 29 other teams. 

(Probably just a one round dispersal draft, maybe two?)

No expansion draft. 

The league stays at 30 teams. 

 

It will never happen because Gary would have a fit. Because he thinks a TV deal hinges on South Florida and Arizona. The owners would have a fit losing expansion money. 

Edited by Ghostsof1915

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12 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

The elephant in the room deserves mention: The USA $ maintaining status as the world's reserve currency. What if it ever crashes?

 

How do other regions/nations feel when the Fed can just type up 10 TRILLION smackers to temporarily keep the charade going?

 

Sooner or later, the paper everyone yearns for, becomes monopoly $

It's a sacred domino which sets off everything, so impossible to anticipate what would follow next. What happens to other currencies? Do societal elites(like pro athlete-stars) want something beyond mere monopoly bux, to compensate their efforts?

 

If we(the general society) can just print CASHHHH in times of need/duress, why not just hand 2 billion to Bettman/his minions & sort all these worries today?

The buck stops...where?! No one knows.

Won't happen because if the US collapses where is China going to sell its goods if doesn't have Wal-Mart? 

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Posted (edited)

The NHL doesn't make any money if a team simply relocates, so it will never happen.  By the looks of it sports will be starting back in May or June for most sports.  I heard Basketball, Hockey, Golf and European Soccer will all get going in a month or 6 weeks.  The NFL will be holding their draft soon and start off season workouts.  

 

The only people who might get screwed are the free agents this summer.  They may not get as big of a contract as they anticipated.  

Edited by Elias Pettersson

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