Nova Scotia shooter dead after killing 22 people/CDN Govt "assault style" weapons ban.

[RUPERTKBD]

6 hours ago, CBH1926 said:

The more I learn about this story it seems that the authorities really dropped the ball on this one.

Although I'm not a big fan of the RCMP system, (and I've offered many criticisms on these boards over the years) I generally try not to pile on after incidents like this.

 

However, this is a pretty damning article from a guy in the know:

 

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/the-nova-scotia-shooting-encapsulates-all-that-s-wrong-with-the-rcmp/ar-BB145KeH?li=AAggXBV

 

Quote

 

When I awoke that Sunday, my wife, Sharon, was already having a coffee. She told me that she had just seen a Facebook posting that a gunman was on the loose near Truro, N.S.

“Since when?”

“Last night.”

“Any details?

“No. It says the guy may be driving a RCMP vehicle.”

I made myself a coffee and then started scouting around for details. There were hardly any. Scraps of information really. There had been no warning put out to the public.  From my experience in dealing with the Royal Canadian Mounted Police over the past 27 years or so, I got that sick feeling that comes from having seen this all before.

“This is bad,” I told her. “Worse than you might think. The RCMP has gone into its shell trying to protect itself and its image. This is probably going to be really bad.”

When the news finally dribbled out, we learned that 22 people were dead, including Mountie Heidi Stevenson. The gunman was also shot dead in a gas station by a Mountie. A messy story resolved. The mourning began for the Mountie … and the others. Tributes went out to the first responders. Flags were ready to be lowered. Funerals, such as they were in this age of COVID-19, were ready to be held.

I talked to a few people and quickly learned some unpublished details. The shooter had tied up his ex-girlfriend or wife to a tree, I was told at the time (though that turned out to be not quite accurate).

There were many dead. When the shooter was taken down at the Irving gas station north of Halifax International Airport, a source told me, the RCMP and Halifax police were in a state of chaos. No one knew who was in charge or what they were supposed to do. “It was a $&!# show.” One police officer figured out that someone who looked like the shooter was at a gas pump and was acting “hinky.” The shooter knew he had been identified, reached for a weapon and had been shot by the curious and alert officer. Story over, right?

READ MORE: The Nova Scotia shooting and the mistakes the RCMP may have made

In situations like these, I have often been called upon to provide comment—Spiritwood, Mayerthorpe, the Dziekanski death and so on. When three Mounties were murdered in June 2014, I was called by Global TV to comment. I told them I was travelling at the time and couldn’t make it. Actually, I was on my way to Prince Edward Island and was less than 40 minutes away. I had learned from experience that there was no value in trying to point out the shortcomings of the RCMP soon after an event.

“This is not the time for recriminations or criticism,” I had heard more than once.

This time, CBC Radio in Halifax called. I got a little emotional about what had happened. I was extremely critical about the force and asked out loud why Stevenson a 48-year-old mother of two was alone in a car in the situation that got her killed.  It had been at least 13 hours since the events had begun in Portapique, spread the next morning to Wentworth and elsewhere.

“Where was the cavalry?” I asked. “Getting gas at Enfield?”

How did it all go so wrong?

Of course, the recriminations began to fly. The mayor of Lunenburg, N.S., contacted me and gave me a dressing down. This was not the time for recriminations, she told me.

But my experience, if it has taught me anything, is the RCMP is adept at pulling at heartstrings during and immediately after an event, like they have over the past two weeks. We are told that there will be a time and place to discuss these issues, but that time never really comes. By then, it’s all old news and time to move on, they will say.

Even now, without all the details in, it has become clear to me that the Nova Scotia massacre encapsulated all that has been and continues to be wrong with the current structure, ethos and performance of the RCMP.

When the RCMP held its first news conference to announce what happened, the two people in charge of the Nova Scotia RCMP, Assistant Commissioner Lee Bergermen and Chief Superintendent Chris Leather looked understandably stressed on one level and like deer caught in the headlights on another. The information coming forth from them was thin and largely unhelpful.

In my CBC interview, I was asked about how long it would take the RCMP to respond to the scene in Portapique on a Saturday night. I said that it took them, based upon what I knew, 30 to 35 minutes.

In its first timeline, the RCMP said it took 12 minutes. The next day it changed the timeline and fudged the response time even more. Finally, it came out with another timeline which said it took 26 minutes. What is the real story?

The RCMP prides itself in being a national police force, but it’s not really a national police force, like say in France. It’s actually a federal police force that rents itself out to the provinces and territories outside Ontario and Quebec. Even then, the only urban areas it polices are Moncton, N.B., and the suburbs of Vancouver—and even there, it’s about to lose its local detachment in Surrey.

The fatal conceit of the Mounties is that every Mountie can do any job, policing is policing. There is no magic.

Here’s how that worked out in the Nova Scotia massacre. Nova Scotia, like other provinces that hire the Mounties to do their provincial or municipal policing, have no say who the RCMP puts in charge or hires in the province.

Bergerman, the officer in charge, spent almost her entire career in federal policing in British Columbia and Ontario. She didn’t do much on the ground in-your-face policing.

However, working on organized crime and counter terrorism is akin to the difference between cricket and baseball. Both have bats and balls, but they are fundamentally different games.

Leather, who started out as a street cop in a regional force outside Toronto, joined the Mounties and became what is known in the force as a “carpet cop.” He moved his way up through federal policing and the corridors of power in Ottawa to be appointed last November as head of operations in Nova Scotia. He was in charge of the police on the ground.

At the second RCMP news conference, the force trotted out the number three in the province, Superintendent Darren Campbell, who was in charge of support services. He’s the guy who makes sure everyone has what they need, especially in an emergency like this one. Where did he come from? As a Staff-Sergeant, he was at RCMP Corps, protecting the legacy and traditions of the RCMP, before he was promoted to Inspector as an assistant in Ottawa to an assistant commissioner. Another former carpet cop.

Instead of tackling the issue head on, they planned and planned, so that no one could be accused of breaching “best practice” protocols.

“This incident was dynamic and fluid,” said Leather in a statement on April 22. “The RCMP have highly trained and capable Critical Incident Command staff who were on site in Portapique. Operational Communications Centre operators assisting the response and police presence was significant. The members who responded used their training and made tough decisions while encountering the unimaginable.”

But as they planned, they failed to put out proper alerts, failed to draw on other forces for help, like Truro and Amherst, failed to set up a secondary perimeter and failed to shut down the very few roads in Central Nova Scotia where the killer was wandering on his deadly mission.

For the RCMP this was an example of a cascading failure that began on Portapiqaue Beach Road—there are suggestions that the Mounties may have been slow to respond there—to the ultimate climax with the accidental meeting between the police and the gunmen at the gas pumps. From the outset the Mounties appear to have become fixated on their own manpower problems and poor decisions at the original crime scene. They then evolved into magical thinking—the gunmen probably killed himself because that’s what a lot of these guys do.

Finally, there is the sad case of Constable Stevenson. She joined the Mounties and was sent to the Musical Ride, even though she hadn’t ever ridden a horse. She spent 13 years there. When she came back to Nova Scotia, she was a press liaison. She was a community support officer, like those who go into schools. She was a traffic cop in Enfield and she was a 48-year-old mother of two.

Yes, she died a hero, but did she have to die?  How did she die? Was she sent to her death by incompetent overseers? The Mountie union says she crashed her car into the killer’s fake police car or was it the other way around? Look at the photos. The only car equipped to survive such a crash was the one driven by the bad guy. His vehicle was fitted with a push bar or ram package, as it’s called. The RCMP has resisted for years improving the safety of his vehicles after it became an issue in Spiritwood, Sask., in 2006. Back then two Mounties rammed a vehicle not equipped with a push bar. Their airbags went off and like sitting ducks they were each shot in the head by the person they were trying to apprehend. Did that happen to Stevenson, too?

Why was she alone there, 13 hours after the rampage had begun? Why were the heavily armed specialists still gassing up almost half an hour after she and another Mountie had been shot in Shubenacadie 20 minutes away? And the Mounties only got their man after one alert officer’s instincts—his Spidey sense—told him something wasn’t right about the guy sitting in a Mazda at a gas pump.

There are a thousand horrible questions for which answers are needed.

But Nova Scotians and Canadians must get over suspending their disbelief and their fond memories of the Musical Ride to do the hard work of addressing this very important issue.

The time has come for recriminations.

 

Paul Palango is the author of three books on the RCMP and a frequent commentator over the past 27 years on RCMP issues

 

He makes one point that I was wondering about myself: If the RCMP knew what was happening, why the hell was Stevenson out there by herself?

 

[Lancaster]

2 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

 

but if he did this outside of an event like this, then wouldn't the gun lobby just say there's no reason for it? 

 

honestly what I'd love to see come out of all this (and its a pipe dream probably) is an all-party committee actually looking at a new system of smart regulation and enforcement. Actually get gun owners at the table, I bet that some of them have great ideas about how to reduce the illegal cross border market.

 

I'm tired of this being politicized, similar to how I'd like to see the military be run by a non-political committee. Assuming of course we can get our $&!# together before the Russian paratroopers arrive.   

 

[kingofsurrey]

17 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

Although I'm not a big fan of the RCMP system, (and I've offered many criticisms on these boards over the years) I generally try not to pile on after incidents like this.

 

However, this is a pretty damning article from a guy in the know:

 

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/the-nova-scotia-shooting-encapsulates-all-that-s-wrong-with-the-rcmp/ar-BB145KeH?li=AAggXBV

 

Paul Palango is the author of three books on the RCMP and a frequent commentator over the past 27 years on RCMP issues

 

He makes one point that I was wondering about myself: If the RCMP knew what was happening, why the hell was Stevenson out there by herself?

 

Yup. Makes no sense. Her husband was texting her just before... suggesating that if she sees the shooter.... she should drive opposite direction.

Armed killer on the loose and RCMP has an office out alone.  MAKES NO SENSE. 

[canuktravella]

20 hours ago, Lancaster said:

if Canada ever gets attacked our soldiers wouldn't stand a chance country people could easily start guerrilla warfare in the hills tho

[canuktravella]

20 hours ago, kingofsurrey said:

Yup. Makes no sense. Her husband was texting her just before... suggesating that if she sees the shooter.... she should drive opposite direction.

Armed killer on the loose and RCMP has an office out alone.  MAKES NO SENSE. 

 maybe you shouldn't be a cop if you can't deal with that situation. Or if you can't handle a situation like this you should get far enough away so you can call  for backup as soon as possible. If her car wasn't safe enough  and his replica cop car was her family should sue the hell out of the rcmp for not protecting her. What really blows me away is this guy had a lookalike cop car for a few yrs  this didn't  raise any alarms  that's insane.  Can I go buy a tank and pretend I'm a ww2 soldier and go on missions through a small town as well maybe there needs to be a review of this soon.

[RUPERTKBD]

8 minutes ago, canuktravella said:

 maybe you shouldn't be a cop if you can't deal with that situation. Or if you can't handle a situation like this you should get far enough away so you can call  for backup as soon as possible. If her car wasn't safe enough  and his replica cop car was her family should sue the hell out of the rcmp for not protecting her. What really blows me away is this guy had a lookalike cop car for a few yrs  this didn't  raise any alarms  that's insane.  Can I go buy a tank and pretend I'm a ww2 soldier and go on missions through a small town as well maybe there needs to be a review of this soon.

That's a pretty cold take....

 

A mother of two is dead.......something which might have been prevented had she been riding with a partner, and your reaction is "too bad she sucks at her job"?

 

Give your head a shake....

[kingofsurrey]

16 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

That's a pretty cold take....

 

A mother of two is dead.......something which might have been prevented had she been riding with a partner, and your reaction is "too bad she sucks at her job"?

 

Give your head a shake....

Female cop was a hero.   simple.

 

RCMP never should have had any cops out that day alone . 

[canuktravella]

37 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

That's a pretty cold take....

 

A mother of two is dead.......something which might have been prevented had she been riding with a partner, and your reaction is "too bad she sucks at her job"?

 

Give your head a shake....

Not being cold if you can't deal with a situation you should be in it. Is it lack of training or was the fact that her car wasn't as safe as it should have been. If your husbands texting her you  to run from that situation proves that she wasn't trained properly and that's sad and a needless death. If rcmp knew a shooter was out there they shouldn't have been alone  like where was her partner? seems like the rcmp at top levels screwed up massively. They are paid to serve and protect should have been a better organization of  resources to save more of the public that basically were exectuted while armless  at least she had a gun to protect her self 

Edited May 15, 2020 by canuktravella

[kingofsurrey]

5 minutes ago, canuktravella said:

Not being cold if you can't deal with a situation you should be in it. Is it lack of training or was the fact that her car wasn't as safe as it should have been. If your husbands texting her you  to run from that situation proves that she wasn't trained properly and that's sad and a needless death. If rcmp knew a shooter was out there they shouldn't have been alone  like where was her partner? 

100% wrong

 

You have zero clue if she reacted to the situation properly.  She attempted to stop a mass murderer that was very well armed. 

Her husband was of course worried about her safety. That is what spouses / loved ones do.

 

Please stop it.

 

This femaile cop was 200% a hero and sacrificed her life for her community.   She deserves a hero's funeral for her courage / bravery and sacrifice. 

[canuktravella]

Just now, kingofsurrey said:

100% wrong

 

You have zero clue if she reacted to the situation properly.  She attempted to stop a mass murderer that was very well armed. 

Her husband was of course worried about her safety. That is what spouses / loved ones do.

 

Please stop it.

 

This femaile cop was 200% a hero and sacrificed her life for her community.   She deserves a hero's funeral for her courage / bravery and sacrifice. 

I never said she wasn't a hero but she shouldn't have been alone  and the rcmp handle this situation badly on response that cost many unarmed civilians lives, the guy even killed a 17 yr old girl.

[RUPERTKBD]

7 minutes ago, canuktravella said:

I never said she wasn't a hero but she shouldn't have been alone  and the rcmp handle this situation badly on response that cost many unarmed civilians lives, the guy even killed a 17 yr old girl.

Exactly what we've been saying, yet your response was she shouldn't be a cop if she couldn't handle it. Go back and read carefully

[Gurn]

1 hour ago, canuktravella said:

If your husbands texting her you  to run from that situation proves that she wasn't trained properly

Just how does a text from a husband prove anything about her training?

[Kanukfanatic]

3 hours ago, canuktravella said:

I never said she wasn't a hero but she shouldn't have been alone  and the rcmp handle this situation badly on response that cost many unarmed civilians lives, the guy even killed a 17 yr old girl.

You have no idea what you are posting. 

[BPA]

N.S. mass shooting: New documents show killer had five guns ready to fire when he was killed at gas station

 

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/ns-mass-shooting-new-documents-show-killer-had-five-guns-ready-to-fire-when-he-was-killed-at-gas-station/ar-BB14jlif?li=AAggNb9&ocid=iehp

 

Police say they have traced the source of both rifles but the details are redacted. Wortman did not have a firearms license and never has, the document says.

 

Police believe three of those guns were obtained in the United States and the RCMP is working with the Canada Border Services Agency to probe their cross-border transit, the RCMP said. The other gun was traced to an origin within Canada. The calibre of the weapons was not released.

 

“Determining where and how the gunman obtained the firearms is a central part of the investigation and we use this detailed information to verify the credibility of some of the information we receive,” the RCMP said. Police said that after Wortman killed RCMP Const. Heidi Stevenson, he took her gun with him.

 

***********

 

I hope they are able to discover how these guns came into Canada and shut it down.

 

[Lancaster]

3 hours ago, BPA said:

N.S. mass shooting: New documents show killer had five guns ready to fire when he was killed at gas station

 

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/ns-mass-shooting-new-documents-show-killer-had-five-guns-ready-to-fire-when-he-was-killed-at-gas-station/ar-BB14jlif?li=AAggNb9&ocid=iehp

 

Police say they have traced the source of both rifles but the details are redacted. Wortman did not have a firearms license and never has, the document says.

 

Police believe three of those guns were obtained in the United States and the RCMP is working with the Canada Border Services Agency to probe their cross-border transit, the RCMP said. The other gun was traced to an origin within Canada. The calibre of the weapons was not released.

 

“Determining where and how the gunman obtained the firearms is a central part of the investigation and we use this detailed information to verify the credibility of some of the information we receive,” the RCMP said. Police said that after Wortman killed RCMP Const. Heidi Stevenson, he took her gun with him.

 

***********

 

I hope they are able to discover how these guns came into Canada and shut it down.

 

Weird that they still don't mention the make/model of the firearms.  

Sometimes I wonder if maybe some of the weapons used to carry out this attack was probably a .22lr.  Totally goes against the whole "assault rifle" narrative.  

 

The article kept mentioning how some of the firearms were "Set to shoot".... well yeah... that's the purpose of having the safety off.  Nothing malicious about it... that's just how many firearms operate.  You turn off the safety... you pull the trigger to fire.  

[RUPERTKBD]

As if the incident itself wasn't bad enough, some dickwad has to pile on:

 

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/swatting-incident-just-days-after-mass-killing-leaves-lake-echo-family-shaken/ar-BB14pfAY?li=AAggFp5
 

Quote

 

It was Friday, April 24, just six days after the mass shooting started in Nova Scotia, and only hours after an emergency alert was issued that set off cell phones across the province about shots fired at two locations outside Halifax.

 

The whole province was on edge, but a family of four in Lake Echo, N.S., was blissfully unaware of the drama unfolding outside their home at 11 p.m. AT that night.

"I would not want anyone, even my worst enemy, to have to go through this, especially with small kids because that will stay with them for a long time," said the homeowner, whom CBC News is not naming because of safety concerns.

 

RCMP had issued a tweet about a firearms call on their street, warning people in the area to stay inside and those elsewhere to stay away.

"We were all dead asleep. My daughter came into our room and was having trouble sleeping. She said there was a man on our front lawn.

Still half asleep, she went downstairs and looked outside.

 

"I was very hesitant about going to the front door after what had happened [in Portapique], so once I saw a man in a police uniform, I lost my mind!" she said.

On April 18-19, a gunman went on a killing rampage through central Nova Scotia that left 22 victims dead. The gunman was driving a replica RCMP vehicle for part of his rampage and was also wearing an RCMP uniform that was mostly authentic.

 

When the homeowner peeked out her door, she saw flashlights in her yard, the neighbour's yard and on properties across the street.

 

"I saw two SWAT members coming around the corner of my house with guns pointed at us, asking if we could come out with our hands up, if everybody who lived at this address was home and if they could come out with their hands above their heads," the homeowner said. 

 

The woman, her husband and their two daughters did as they were told, scared and uncertain about what was going on.

 

A few houses down and across the street, a neighbour and friend was alerted to the unfolding drama when her doorbell intercom rang.

 

"It was terrifying. Just the buzz at my door and the person identifying themselves as an RCMP officer terrified me," the neighbour said. "All I could think about was Portapique and I was thinking, 'This can't be happening.'"

 

She asked the officer how she could verify that he really was a police officer. He provided his name and she called 911 to confirm his identity and that he was at her home. The officer then told her to stay inside and keep her lights off.

 

She complied and watched the scene across the street, where police had surrounded her friend's home and were positioned up and down the street.

 

"There were police in the ditches. There were police in the woods. They kept just screaming, 'Residents of this address, come out with your hands up. We have you surrounded,'" she said.

 

Back at the home in question, the family was still trying to clear their sleepy brains and process what was happening.

 

The homeowner said once police confirmed everything was OK, an RCMP officer told her a 911 call had reported a child injuring a parent and a bomb under her deck.

The homeowner said the officer called this "swatting," which was a term she hadn't heard of.

 

Swatting involves falsely reporting a serious incident, in the hopes it draws a response that includes heavily-armed tactical squads like a SWAT team.

The homeowner said police apologized for disturbing them, but explained they had to take those calls seriously.

 

After the police left, the homeowner said the whole family was shaken up and her girls were crying.

 

"My kids would not go back to sleep that night," she said.nShe said her phone was ringing off the hook with neighbours calling to check in.

 

The next day, everything seemed OK.

 

But then at 6 p.m., a $60 pizza order arrived, followed by four more. Two airport taxis showed up later. Around midnight, a tow truck pulled up to their home.

All of those orders were placed from an untraceable phone number by someone who identified himself as Brandon.

 

The name was familiar to the family because when they first moved into their home and got a new phone number, they received harassing calls for Brandon. It became such a problem they changed their number.

 

Halifax District RCMP spokesperson Cpl. Lisa Croteau said the force does not use the term swatting. They refer to incidents like this one as "unfounded."

 

Croteau was not able to say how many similar calls there have been in recent months because the force does not track unfounded reports.

 

She was unable to say how many officers responded to the call.

 

A Halifax Regional Police spokesperson said members of their emergency response team did assist RCMP on the call. The spokesperson would not disclose the number of Halifax Regional Police officers who responded.

 

 

[CBH1926]

On 5/19/2020 at 12:16 PM, BPA said:

N.S. mass shooting: New documents show killer had five guns ready to fire when he was killed at gas station

 

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/ns-mass-shooting-new-documents-show-killer-had-five-guns-ready-to-fire-when-he-was-killed-at-gas-station/ar-BB14jlif?li=AAggNb9&ocid=iehp

 

Police say they have traced the source of both rifles but the details are redacted. Wortman did not have a firearms license and never has, the document says.

 

Police believe three of those guns were obtained in the United States and the RCMP is working with the Canada Border Services Agency to probe their cross-border transit, the RCMP said. The other gun was traced to an origin within Canada. The calibre of the weapons was not released.

 

“Determining where and how the gunman obtained the firearms is a central part of the investigation and we use this detailed information to verify the credibility of some of the information we receive,” the RCMP said. Police said that after Wortman killed RCMP Const. Heidi Stevenson, he took her gun with him.

 

***********

 

I hope they are able to discover how these guns came into Canada and shut it down.

 

Trough largest armory in the world, Canada and especially Mexico gun laws are challenged by its neighbor.

[JM_]

29 minutes ago, CBH1926 said:

Trough largest armory in the world, Canada and especially Mexico gun laws are challenged by its neighbor.

I guess it comes down to that, doesn't it? a border really too big to control and the worlds biggest arms manufacturer next door. 

 

We may simply have to wait for the US to force their own gun manufacturers to bring in things like traceability. I hate the idea of just being passive about it but that might be the reality here. 

[bishopshodan]

11 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

We may simply have to wait for the US to force their own gun manufacturers to bring in things like traceability.

[CBH1926]

15 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I guess it comes down to that, doesn't it? a border really too big to control and the worlds biggest arms manufacturer next door. 

 

We may simply have to wait for the US to force their own gun manufacturers to bring in things like traceability. I hate the idea of just being passive about it but that might be the reality here. 

Canada has pretty good gun laws, unfortunately it’s neighbor doesn’t.

Mexico has really tough gun laws, to get a gun there you really have to jump through hoops.

Drugs travel north, guns travel south in their case.

 

Canada has higher rate of gun violence in comparison to Western Europe, I think the only difference is where it’s located.

Ever since the Balkan wars of the 90s, guns have flooded Europe, in Sweden hand grenade attacks are common.
 

That was unheard of 30 years ago but it has changed, rocket launchers, grenades, AKs that you see over there are mostly from former Yugoslavia. That and lot of criminals and killers that honed their skills during the war.

Edited May 21, 2020 by CBH1926