Nova Scotia shooter dead after killing 22 people/CDN Govt "assault style" weapons ban.

[RWMc1]

On 5/24/2020 at 12:19 PM, Jimmy McGill said:

do we even really know the main points of entry? I'm actually interested if you've looked into this or have read about it. Is it over standard crossings, tucked into rail cars, via reserves that border the US? I wonder what the major routes are?

 

some of it seems to be at regular crossings but that number seems really low for whats likely on the street:

 

The majority of the illegal guns in Canada used to be smuggled across the border from the U.S., but that seems to be changing. According to police, a growing number of guns are bought legally in Canada and resold on the black market, or made here illegally.

 

That's not to say smuggling isn't still a problem. The number of firearms confiscated at the Canada-U.S. border has fluctuated over the years — 751 were seized during the 2017-18 fiscal year, according to the Canada Border Services Agency.

They are hidden in gas tanks, the trunks of cars, in luggage, or on someone's body. In one remarkable instance involving Montrealer Alexis Vlachos, firearms were smuggled through a public library that straddles the border with the U.S.

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/national-gun-trafficking-straw-buying-smuggling-firearms-1.5126228

 

 

It also looks like domestic supply is on the increase:

 

The number of guns obtained legally in Canada but are then sold to people who use them for criminal purposes has surged dramatically in recent years compared to firearms smuggled from the United States, Toronto police say.

In recent years, they say, investigators have noticed a stark shift in where guns used to commit crimes are coming from.

 

Before 2012, about 75 per cent of the firearms were trafficked from the United States. By 2017, however, about half originated from domestic sources, putting an end to the idea that most of Canada's illegal guns come from across the border, Det. Rob Di Danieli of the guns and gangs unit said.

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/guns-domestic-danforth-shooting-toronto-1.4759159

I remember watching an investigative story on this years ago. Apparently many of the guns (along with cocaine) were being exchanged for marijauna from Canada.

 

After marijauna became legal in many states, the market was no longer there.

 

If people want something badly enough, they'll find a way to get it. I guess that is another reason to track certain weapons. Once a gun is sold who knows where it ends up?

 

We should also invest in miniature drones to spy on all gun owners. We should also install neurological over-rides on their trigger fingers that can be triggered remotely. /s

[CBH1926]

31 minutes ago, RWMc1 said:

I remember watching an investigative story on this years ago. Apparently many of the guns (along with cocaine) were being exchanged for marijauna from Canada.

 

After marijauna became legal in many states, the market was no longer there.

 

If people want something badly enough, they'll find a way to get it. I guess that is another reason to track certain weapons. Once a gun is sold who knows where it ends up?

 

We should also invest in miniature drones to spy on all gun owners. We should also install neurological over-rides on their trigger fingers that can be triggered remotely. /s

Speaking of weed, it looks like you might have been smoking little too much my friend.

[RWMc1]

7 minutes ago, CBH1926 said:

Speaking of weed, it looks like you might have been smoking little too much my friend.

I saw another poster complaining because he didn't get sarcasm so he suggested that the other poster end with  /s to show sarcasm. I guess that was bullcrap.

 

Anyway, I was using hyperbole to speak to the paranoia among many gun owners in this thread.

[BPA]

Explicit threat against Trudeau and an arsenal of loaded guns make Rideau Hall attack look like assassination attempt

 

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/explicit-threat-against-trudeau-and-an-arsenal-of-loaded-guns-make-rideau-hall-attack-look-like-assassination-attempt/ar-BB16prYG?li=AAggNb9&ocid=iehp

 

Court documents outlining allegations against Corey Barclay Hurren, arrested after a truck was crashed through the gates of Rideau Hall, suggest the attack may well have been an assassination attempt, featuring a direct threat against Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and four loaded guns — a handgun, a semi-automatic rifle and two shotguns.

 

Two of the guns were either restricted or prohibited, including a  loaded Norinco M14 rifle, which is a prohibited firearm under the May 1st Liberal government ban on “assault-style firearms.”

 

Hurren, 46, who was an active member of the Canadian Armed Forces, was arrested Thursday after breaching the grounds of the residence where Trudeau and his family live, and charged Friday with 22 criminal offenses.

 

************

 

Wasn't too sure where to post this so decided on this thread as its about guns in Canada.

 

Sounds like Hurren was a law-abiding citizen until he wasn't. 

 

[RUPERTKBD]

1 hour ago, BPA said:

Explicit threat against Trudeau and an arsenal of loaded guns make Rideau Hall attack look like assassination attempt

 

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/explicit-threat-against-trudeau-and-an-arsenal-of-loaded-guns-make-rideau-hall-attack-look-like-assassination-attempt/ar-BB16prYG?li=AAggNb9&ocid=iehp

 

Court documents outlining allegations against Corey Barclay Hurren, arrested after a truck was crashed through the gates of Rideau Hall, suggest the attack may well have been an assassination attempt, featuring a direct threat against Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and four loaded guns — a handgun, a semi-automatic rifle and two shotguns.

 

Two of the guns were either restricted or prohibited, including a  loaded Norinco M14 rifle, which is a prohibited firearm under the May 1st Liberal government ban on “assault-style firearms.”

 

Hurren, 46, who was an active member of the Canadian Armed Forces, was arrested Thursday after breaching the grounds of the residence where Trudeau and his family live, and charged Friday with 22 criminal offenses.

 

************

 

Wasn't too sure where to post this so decided on this thread as its about guns in Canada.

 

Sounds like Hurren was a law-abiding citizen until he wasn't. 

 

Just curious.....for the pro-gun proponents ITT:

 

I don't know what sort of punishment this guy is in for, but would you be supportive of a lifetime ban on possessing firearms?

[Junkyard Dog]

54 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

Just curious.....for the pro-gun proponents ITT:

 

I don't know what sort of punishment this guy is in for, but would you be supportive of a lifetime ban on possessing firearms?

Fact that is due was an active part of the military is troubling. 
 

As someone who wants sensible laws that prevent gun violence instead of a reactionary ban I would want more than just a ban for this guy. 
 

This guy was in our military and we couldn’t recognize that he had problems in his head. 
 

 

[Gurn]

On 6/24/2020 at 7:15 PM, RWMc1 said:

 

 

We should also invest in miniature drones to spy on all gun owners. We should also install neurological over-rides on their trigger fingers that can be triggered remotely. /s

Here is an idea. 

All new built weapons must have a bio-metric lock, such as a finger print reader in order to work. Won't stop any old gun from being stolen and used improperly, but over the course of a decade or two it would make a difference.

[BPA]

16 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

Fact that is due was an active part of the military is troubling. 
 

As someone who wants sensible laws that prevent gun violence instead of a reactionary ban I would want more than just a ban for this guy. 
 

This guy was in our military and we couldn’t recognize that he had problems in his head. 
 

 

Would caution that he may be suffering from PTSD if he spent any time serving overseas on any operations.

 

I have a friend in the military that suffers panic attacks in large group settings. 

But he also sees a psychiatrist now and then (that helps).

[bishopshodan]

57 minutes ago, gurn said:

Here is an idea. 

All new built weapons must have a bio-metric lock, such as a finger print reader in order to work. Won't stop any old gun from being stolen and used improperly, but over the course of a decade or two it would make a difference.

Yep. Smart tech has been around for a while. 

All new guns manufactured should have some sort of it.

I like the idea of a fob, or maybe bracelet. The owner could wear it, and like a new car, the gun wouldn't fire unless the 'fob' is within a certain distance. 

[RUPERTKBD]

1 hour ago, Junkyard Dog said:

Fact that is due was an active part of the military is troubling. 
 

As someone who wants sensible laws that prevent gun violence instead of a reactionary ban I would want more than just a ban for this guy. 
 

This guy was in our military and we couldn’t recognize that he had problems in his head.

Agreed on all points. We definitely need to make counseling available to veterans. In some cases, maybe even unsolicited counseling.

 

My question was more along the lines of in addition to whatever else they decide to do. If someone is caught in an attempt at domestic terrorism, or assassination, or whatever term we ascribe to his actions, is a lifetime firearm ban appropriate?

 

It seems like a no-brainer to me, but pretty much everyone here knows where I stand on guns, so I was looking for a different perspective.

[Lancaster]

On 7/7/2020 at 11:52 AM, RUPERTKBD said:

Just curious.....for the pro-gun proponents ITT:

 

I don't know what sort of punishment this guy is in for, but would you be supportive of a lifetime ban on possessing firearms?

Well.... anyone convicted of a violent crime is banned from owning guns, period.  The laws are already on the books. 

 

For example, if I was ever convicted of domestic abuse or uttering threats, etc.... that is reason enough to be banned someone from getting a license and getting current license revoked.  

 

On 7/7/2020 at 1:08 PM, gurn said:

Here is an idea. 

All new built weapons must have a bio-metric lock, such as a finger print reader in order to work. Won't stop any old gun from being stolen and used improperly, but over the course of a decade or two it would make a difference.

New technology is always being produced to make such locks ineffective as well.  With any technology regarding locks and stuff, there will be ways to crack them.  

Even without resorting to bypass such locks..... 3D printing is the way of a future in regards to manufacturing.  

This part is technically the essence of a firearm....

It wouldn't be too difficult to find and download the schematics to 3D print it.  Or if you know a skilled metal machinist to make it.  The rest of the parts are just accessories. 

 

Not saying any new legislation won't impact the illegal weapons supply.... but impacting thousands of people with no intent to commit any crime to go after a handful of criminals is not effective.  

[Russ]

7 hours ago, Lancaster said:

Well.... anyone convicted of a violent crime is banned from owning guns, period.  The laws are already on the books. 

 

For example, if I was ever convicted of domestic abuse or uttering threats, etc.... that is reason enough to be banned someone from getting a license and getting current license revoked.  

 

New technology is always being produced to make such locks ineffective as well.  With any technology regarding locks and stuff, there will be ways to crack them.  

Even without resorting to bypass such locks..... 3D printing is the way of a future in regards to manufacturing.  

This part is technically the essence of a firearm....

It wouldn't be too difficult to find and download the schematics to 3D print it.  Or if you know a skilled metal machinist to make it.  The rest of the parts are just accessories. 

 

Not saying any new legislation won't impact the illegal weapons supply.... but impacting thousands of people with no intent to commit any crime to go after a handful of criminals is not effective.  

Thats the problem right now down in the USA.  Many of these illegal weapons right now are actually being 3D printed and making fully capable glocks/automatic weapons from bloody plastic moulds.  Pretty crazy right now, so the idea that you'll magically stop the weapons is laughable.  These guys are just going to spend a grand or whatever on a good 3D printer, find the file needed online and start producing them, then its even more problems will occur unfortunately. 

[thedestroyerofworlds]

3 hours ago, Russ said:

Thats the problem right now down in the USA.  Many of these illegal weapons right now are actually being 3D printed and making fully capable glocks/automatic weapons from bloody plastic moulds.  Pretty crazy right now, so the idea that you'll magically stop the weapons is laughable.  These guys are just going to spend a grand or whatever on a good 3D printer, find the file needed online and start producing them, then its even more problems will occur unfortunately. 

So why bother in your world. 

 

Or

 

Anyone caught with this gets the book thrown at them.  You know, criminal justice.   

 

Nope, gun control is useless cause criminals gonna criminal. 

[Chicken.]

8 minutes ago, thedestroyerofworlds said:

So why bother in your world. 

 

Or

 

Anyone caught with this gets the book thrown at them.  You know, criminal justice.   

 

Nope, gun control is useless cause criminals gonna criminal. 

You want to make 3D printers illegal ?  Or just specific designs ?

 

Aren't there already hefty penalties for possessing an illegal firearm  ? I guess the caveat is are these plastic guns considered illegal firearms yet.

 

The last thing we should be doing in all this is defunding the police that's for sure. I checked the BLM Vancouver page the other day and they are going on about defunding the VPD... as if they don't have enough problems already.... crazy times

[thedestroyerofworlds]

1 minute ago, Chicken. said:

You want to make 3D printers illegal ?  Or just specific designs ?

 

Aren't there already hefty penalties for possessing an illegal firearm  ? I guess the caveat is are these plastic guns considered illegal firearms yet.

 

The last thing we should be doing in all this is defunding the police that's for sure. I checked the BLM Vancouver page the other day and they are going on about defunding the VPD... as if they don't have enough problems already.... crazy times

The printed guns.  Regulations regarding what can and cannot be printed, who can possess the files, fines, jail time.  

 

The last bit regarding defunding.   Reasonable people means no more tanks.  Some of the funds goes to other areas and the police are no longer the first responders to certain calls.  It doesn't mean eliminating without some kind of replacement.  At least that is what many Reasonable people mean when saying defund.  But those Reasonable people get lumped in with the crazy.   Like a lot of people sharing ideas on both the left and the right.

[Chicken.]

30 minutes ago, thedestroyerofworlds said:

The printed guns.  Regulations regarding what can and cannot be printed, who can possess the files, fines, jail time.  

 

The last bit regarding defunding.   Reasonable people means no more tanks.  Some of the funds goes to other areas and the police are no longer the first responders to certain calls.  It doesn't mean eliminating without some kind of replacement.  At least that is what many Reasonable people mean when saying defund.  But those Reasonable people get lumped in with the crazy.   Like a lot of people sharing ideas on both the left and the right.

Sounds to me like those regulations will have the same hope of catching people that pirate movies or stream pay-per views.... nearly zero... 

 

The printed guns should be made illegal, or require some sort of license, I can agree. but criminals gonna criminalize

 

Sure I get some reasonable people's thoughts, but the slogan is just ridiculous as it has been known for quite some time the VPD are already under funded. Instead of putting down and belittling the police's difficult job by promoting reduced funding, a more positive mantra would be "Fund Mental Health" or "VPD Need Assistance" - not quite as catchy though unfortunately.. they might as well just start blasting "F*** the Police" ... 

Edited July 9, 2020 by Chicken.

[RUPERTKBD]

One thing I'll agree with the right-leaning folks is that you can always count on the Left to come up with the worst possible slogans.....

 

"Defund the Police", doesn't mean "abolish" the police, but that's what it sounds like. It makes for low hanging fruit for those who want to discredit the movement. The problem as I see it, is that it's become a catchphrase and people just throw it out there indiscriminately, without consideration of whether it's an appropriate action in that particular situation.

 

I'm against reducing Law Enforcement's ability to enforce, but I'm for shifting certain responsibilities onto those better trained to deal with certain situations (mental health checks, etc.)

 

The problem is, liberals suck at getting their message across in a manner that can be easily understood by all. because of it, a well intentioned idea becomes a "target" for those who want to politicize it.

[Lancaster]

37 minutes ago, thedestroyerofworlds said:

So why bother in your world. 

 

Or

 

Anyone caught with this gets the book thrown at them.  You know, criminal justice.   

 

Nope, gun control is useless cause criminals gonna criminal. 

Throw the book at criminals?  lol.  Nothing like a little humour to wake up to in the morning.  

 

Just read up any headline when there are drug/weapons bust.... usually it's people with like a long rap sheet.  If the courts actually do what it should do.... how can that drug dealer or gangbanger get reach up to multiple weapons offenses?  Heck, as a LAGO, I would have been throw in prison away for a long long time.  

 

 

17 minutes ago, thedestroyerofworlds said:

The printed guns.  Regulations regarding what can and cannot be printed, who can possess the files, fines, jail time.  

 

The last bit regarding defunding.   Reasonable people means no more tanks.  Some of the funds goes to other areas and the police are no longer the first responders to certain calls.  It doesn't mean eliminating without some kind of replacement.  At least that is what many Reasonable people mean when saying defund.  But those Reasonable people get lumped in with the crazy.   Like a lot of people sharing ideas on both the left and the right.

Umm....  I still watch pirated movies and play cracked PC games.... been doing so for the last 20+ years.  

 

Regardless, the main purpose for the "weapons ban" was to stop random mass shooting.  When any shooting occurs... it's the final results of a cascade of mistakes, falling through the cracks, poor funding, lack of mental health, etc.  Mass shooting is the consequence, not the cause within itself.  

[thedestroyerofworlds]

1 minute ago, Lancaster said:

Throw the book at criminals?  lol.  Nothing like a little humour to wake up to in the morning.  

 

Just read up any headline when there are drug/weapons bust.... usually it's people with like a long rap sheet.  If the courts actually do what it should do.... how can that drug dealer or gangbanger get reach up to multiple weapons offenses?  Heck, as a LAGO, I would have been throw in prison away for a long long time.  

 

 

Umm....  I still watch pirated movies and play cracked PC games.... been doing so for the last 20+ years.  

 

Regardless, the main purpose for the "weapons ban" was to stop random mass shooting.  When any shooting occurs... it's the final results of a cascade of mistakes, falling through the cracks, poor funding, lack of mental health, etc.  Mass shooting is the consequence, not the cause within itself.  

Then I guess you should support or run of office on a criminal justice reform position.  Nope.  Criminals gonna criminal so I should be allowed to own ma gunzzzz.

[Lancaster]

3 hours ago, thedestroyerofworlds said:

Then I guess you should support or run of office on a criminal justice reform position.  Nope.  Criminals gonna criminal so I should be allowed to own ma gunzzzz.

Because criminal using firearms isn't the same demographic of people who just wants to go target shooting.  Either than the superficial similarity in the category of "firearms", there's minimal overlap.  

 

The majority of firearms engaged in criminal activities are with illegally obtained guns, mostly handguns (which are already registered) and/or from the US.  Illegally possessing a restricted firearm is already 2 years in prison... just rarely enforced for the actual people out there committing the crime.  

Clamping down on the people who aren't committing crime is stupid, it's not even debatable.  It's like calling the cops to the neighbour on the right because the neighbour on the left is party through the night... or banning Civic coupes because some guy in the Ferrari is speeding.... you're just barking up the wrong tree.  

 

If the courts actually punish the criminals, there would be no complaints... but it's clear there's one set of rules for those wishing to be in compliance of them.... and then a separate and lenient rule for those committing crime.