Top 50 Canucks of All-Time - #35

[smithers joe]

tiger

 

reinhart

[Kevin Biestra]

2 hours ago, IBatch said:

Voted Babych - nominate Oddliefson.. 

 

Edit:  WIth around five nominations available for the top 50 - glad to see guys like Smith and Lanz getting their due - hope CDCers do not sleep on Murzyn and Momesso either - if Hansen gets in then other great support players should also get consideration and Momesso was definitely one of those guys...don't mind the Aucion or even Cloutier nominations but not ahead of these guys.... wonder if monkey business will now start (Vrbata? Miller? ha ha )....and on Markstrom - yeah he has shown he can play better then Cloutier - BUT he hasn't had any playoff games yet to show us what he can manage when the pressure is up...at least Cloutier did..I'm high on Babych because he was one more Canuck in that great playoff team we had in the earl-mid 90's that stepped up his game when it matters the most.   And Momesso kept players honest when Ronning was taking a regular shift...and chipped in too.  O  h and on Cook...can get why some really liked this guy - he had some great goals - clutch...and my way younger sister became a fan during the WCE years and loved him as much or more then any of those players....for those that also grew up watching that team first can't take that away from them - it's the same thing for each fan more or less and their first loves are hard to see without rose coloured glasses...but not if it means Lanz, Oddleifson, Smith, Murzyn or for me Momesso doens't get in.   Rather have Momesso on my team any day.   Anyways get the subjectivity of this list - and actually appreciate it more then the experts list to a point.   AJ, Biestra and Baratheon and a few others have really done a great job in helping shed some light on the oldies but goodies in our history  -  and I hope to honour that too despite probably never watching Smith play a game or at least if somehow I did - don't remember it.  Had to be at a family member or friends house way back then - our TV was black and white and had rabbits ears - and HNIC wasn't a regular thing in my house until I was 16 and living at Grandmas with my uncle.   I admit I'm a homer for the Linden teams...and get why those that grew up with Tiger - or later Tanti or before Smith also have their own memories which weigh into their personal experiences of what greatness mean to them.

 

With Tiger looking like he might get in, it's time for me to start the Babych campaign trail next round.  He is quite possibly my favorite skater of all time for any team, so I went out of my way to not place him extra high in the rankings, but I may have overcorrected and done him wrong.

 

I think Tiger might be the most besmirched Canuck in terms of where he ought to be and where he ended up on this list.  As you have said, the Big Irishman held him in way higher regard than 35th.

 

Momesso...if there was one guy from the 1994 team that would have been right at home on the 1982 team, I think it was big Serge.

 

As to Cloutier, I've got him behind Markstrom myself, mainly because Markstrom has been team MVP and Cloutier was kind of a coat-tail rider.  Those West Coast Express teams would have made the playoffs with Peter Dinklage in net.  And it sounds kind of funny to say Markstrom has no playoff games to take away from his case, and then point to Cloutier as having playoff games under his belt to build his case.

 

Glad to see other people talking about Oddleifson and Ververgaert and Lanz etc.  I really thought it was possible that you and I and 189lbs would be fighting in vain to get those guys nominated into the final spots, as monkey business ran amok they got run over by the juggernauts you named like Vrbata.  Or Mason Raymond and Raffi Torres and Tanner Glass, I mean they contributed to 2011 right?

 

 

[goalie13]

6 hours ago, -AJ- said:

While I would maintain that it's too early for Cloutier, I really do love to see some Cloutier love. I do personally think he gets way too much hate from Canuck fans who forget the good moments he did have.

I have a strong goalie bias.  If I don't start campaigning for him now, he's not going to make the list at all.

 

To this day, Cloutier is still one of my all-time favourite Canucks.

[Baratheon]

You guys sold me!  Vote Dave Babych!  Almost voted Garth but he can wait.

 

Nominate Rick Lanz!

[You Mad Bro?]

Vote Gino. Only room for six more names. I nominate Pettersson 

[Kevin Biestra]

19 minutes ago, You Mad Bro? said:

Vote Gino. Only room for six more names. I nominate Pettersson 

 

I don't know about your opinion or what the plan is, but I would kind of like to see guys keep getting nominated and added to the voting options right up to the end.

 

Who knows if someone might pull off some clutch magic with a great underdog performance at the end, but moreover it would let a few more guys get some of their due respect and they could kind of get auto-slotted to the 51-59 spots...

[IBatch]

2 hours ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

With Tiger looking like he might get in, it's time for me to start the Babych campaign trail next round.  He is quite possibly my favorite skater of all time for any team, so I went out of my way to not place him extra high in the rankings, but I may have overcorrected and done him wrong.

 

I think Tiger might be the most besmirched Canuck in terms of where he ought to be and where he ended up on this list.  As you have said, the Big Irishman held him in way higher regard than 35th.

 

Momesso...if there was one guy from the 1994 team that would have been right at home on the 1982 team, I think it was big Serge.

 

As to Cloutier, I've got him behind Markstrom myself, mainly because Markstrom has been team MVP and Cloutier was kind of a coat-tail rider.  Those West Coast Express teams would have made the playoffs with Peter Dinklage in net.  And it sounds kind of funny to say Markstrom has no playoff games to take away from his case, and then point to Cloutier as having playoff games under his belt to build his case.

 

Glad to see other people talking about Oddleifson and Ververgaert and Lanz etc.  I really thought it was possible that you and I and 189lbs would be fighting in vain to get those guys nominated into the final spots, as monkey business ran amok they got run over by the juggernauts you named like Vrbata.  Or Mason Raymond and Raffi Torres and Tanner Glass, I mean they contributed to 2011 right?

 

 

Like before when some guys were close and one of them didn't belong yet I will change my vote to Tiger if he needs the extra support...and would have earlier if he had a chance (Horvat) too...just wanted to plant some seeds so Babych gets his due soon.. Markstom has played his best hockey the past 18 months - but his body of work also needs to be considered and thus far Cloutier - despite his playoff gaffs also needs to be considered - both do not belong in the top 50 IMO.    Cloutiers stats actually were middling for the time period for number ones - mediocre unfortunately was not what we needed then - and he didn't step it up in the playoffs like McLean and others did...in 94 McLean posted a stellar SP for example (.922-.923) - not only did he make "the Save"  which is a top five iconic moment in our history, he also was great almost every game.  Game one against the NYR was probably his best post season performance after Game 7 vs Cal.    Markstrom could be in the top 50 with his next contract for sure - and if he has another gear...well that will be awesome.    Hope we don't see Raymond or Torres name come up...or Erhoff.  Too many players like Larionov, Tallon, and Reinhart that were not here long as well that shone brighter and did more for their respective teams.  Didn't have Tanev in the top 50 when we started, but moved him in after more consideration..Mitchell maybe too.   Hamhuis?  Has a decent case to be in too.  But not if it means Murzyn doesn't get in....and how long has Tanev been in for now?  Thats some serious monkey business....like Aucion he's played on some of our worst teams...but Aucion was arguably a better player - and tied the all-time PP goals record...remember that - how did Aucion all of a sudden morph into a blue line sniper in the depths of the dead puck era?   Not a great moment - but it gave us something to cheer for when he tied it ... 

[Kevin Biestra]

54 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Like before when some guys were close and one of them didn't belong yet I will change my vote to Tiger if he needs the extra support...and would have earlier if he had a chance (Horvat) too...just wanted to plant some seeds so Babych gets his due soon.. Markstom has played his best hockey the past 18 months - but his body of work also needs to be considered and thus far Cloutier - despite his playoff gaffs also needs to be considered - both do not belong in the top 50 IMO.    Cloutiers stats actually were middling for the time period for number ones - mediocre unfortunately was not what we needed then - and he didn't step it up in the playoffs like McLean and others did...in 94 McLean posted a stellar SP for example (.922-.923)

 

It is a forgotten little fact, but even after the sweep by the Islanders, Brodeur still led the league in SPCT for the playoffs in 1982 (.918 after the Islanders sweep).

 

Yeah, I've got Cloutier in the 60s somewhere.  Markstrom the same I think.  Cesare Maniago and Glen "the Franchise" Hanlon in roughly the same neighborhood.  Two team MVPs for Cesare, and both Calder and post-season All-Star votes for Hanlon in successive years.  Hanlon was basically where Markstrom is now...it was looking like his team for a long time to come, until Brodeur came in and took over.  Things can change quickly...and they did for Hanlon, for Don Lever, Dale Tallon, Bob Dailey, Petr Nedved, Brian Bradley, etc.  Which is why I call Monkey Business when people project current players a few years into the future and just take for granted that it will happen that way.

Edited April 23, 2020 by Kevin Biestra

[J-Dizzle]

Gino 

 

Hamhuis 

[-AJ-]

2 hours ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

I don't know about your opinion or what the plan is, but I would kind of like to see guys keep getting nominated and added to the voting options right up to the end.

 

Who knows if someone might pull off some clutch magic with a great underdog performance at the end, but moreover it would let a few more guys get some of their due respect and they could kind of get auto-slotted to the 51-59 spots...

Yes, nominations continue all the way up until the end and the final 10 players on the voting list are listed as honourable mentions in no particular order. So the final list will effectively have 1-50 in order and 51-60 in no particular order.

[Hogs & Podz]

53 minutes ago, J-Dizzle said:

Gino 

 

Hamhuis 

Yes and yes please!

[Hogs & Podz]

We don't have one enforcer in yet!  It's about time don't you think (already at #35)?  No one more deserving then Gino... He'll always be a canuck through and through!  Gino, Gino, Gino!

[Kevin Biestra]

10 minutes ago, Hogs & Podz said:

We don't have one enforcer in yet!  It's about time don't you think (already at #35)?  No one more deserving then Gino... He'll always be a canuck through and through!  Gino, Gino, Gino!

 

I agree that Gino needs to get in very very soon.  But of all the times to say when are we gonna get an enforcer in there finally...why pick the moment where Tiger Williams is leading the voting?

[apollo]

How on earth is Williams beating Rota? 

 

These two played on the same teams and Rota always had better #s. Rota was racking up 81 points in 82-83 and williams was at 21... 

 

Sure Williams had some sweet Celly's and was more of a personality... but Darcy was the better player and he's even Vancouver born... so what gives!!??!

 

If you look at their cup run year, their numbers aren't that far off... 40 for rota vs 38 for Tiger. However, tiger did play 26 more games. Their playoff numbers almost identical as well 9 vs 10pts 

 

	Darcy Rota	F	51	20	20	40	139	6	17	6	3	9	54	BC: Vancouver	28
22	Dave "Tiger" Williams	F	77	17	21	38	341	-6	17	3	7	10	116	SASK: Weyburn	27

 

 

Regardless, I voted for Tanev. He's at 10 years of service and for the most part has been all guts and glory. He went undrafted and CHOSE to sign here and has said he loves the city countless times.

 

He's at the prime of his career and should we redo this list in 10 years, he'll likely go top 10 if not top 15. 

 

Nominating: Solely based on his 9 Seasons as a Canuck... 8th in all-time Shortties as a Canuck, 19th with 566GP,, +14 career (he never even padded these under the Sedin Dynasty years as he was long gone to Pitts. We could have used him on that 2011 team - no way Boston pushes us around. 

 

He certainly had his fair share of heroic moments... GWG's, game tying goals... cashing in with 5.7 seconds to go...

Edited April 23, 2020 by apollo

[Kevin Biestra]

9 minutes ago, apollo said:

How on earth is Williams beating Rota? 

 

These two played on the same teams and Rota always had better #s. Rota was racking up 81 points in 82-83 and williams was at 21... 

 

Sure Williams had some sweet Celly's and was more of a personality... but Darcy was the better player and he's even Vancouver born... so what gives!!??!

 

If you look at their cup run year, their numbers aren't that far off... 40 for rota vs 38 for Tiger. However, tiger did play 26 more games. Their playoff numbers almost identical as well 9 vs 10pts 

 

	Darcy Rota	F	51	20	20	40	139	6	17	6	3	9	54	BC: Vancouver	28
22	Dave "Tiger" Williams	F	77	17	21	38	341	-6	17	3	7	10	116	SASK: Weyburn	27

 

 

Well...if you take the case you just presented (where Tiger leading the Canucks in goals one year was left out) and then basically add the entire case for Gino Odjick as well, you have the reason why people are voting for Tiger Williams.

 

I'm not going to say anything to detract from Rota.  He deserves every vote he gets as well.  But it's hard to call it an honest case for Tiger Williams if you don't even reference his fighting or standing up for his team or PIMs even once.

Edited April 23, 2020 by Kevin Biestra

[Nuxfanabroad]

When Tiger asked BCTV's John McGeachie, "Where d'ya get your hair cut?!" during an intermission-interview, he shoulda' nailed down a top-10, all-time!

 

edit: Glen Hanlon(The Franchise) deserves mention. Early on before injuries, he looked like a future superstar, in the late 70's. Saw him play a game vs the Habs powerhouse, where the fans kept giving him Standing O's..what a show he put on(when hot)!

Edited April 23, 2020 by Nuxfanabroad

[apollo]

24 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Well...if you take the case you just presented (where Tiger leading the Canucks in goals one year was left out) and then basically add the entire case for Gino Odjick as well, you have the reason why people are voting for Tiger Williams.

 

I'm not going to say anything to detract from Rota.  He deserves every vote he gets as well.  But it's hard to call it an honest case for Tiger Williams if you don't even reference his fighting or standing up for his team or PIMs even once.

Fair point... standing up for team mates is a big one. 

 

Also you're right, I left out his 35 goals and ~350 pims is pretty impressive. That said Darcy was only 6 points behind him that year, other years Darcy always had him beat points wise. 

 

I retract my initial statement, I can see why it's close. Tiger definitely does deserve some additional credit based on his enforcing, especially in that era where it was so crucial. 

[the grinder]

12 hours ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Ververgaert always looks like he just did something naughty.  I want to put him a couple spots up in the rankings just for mischief.

 

 

 

 

 

that and plus he is number 25 on all time canuck scoring list  409 games played  , 304 points( while prolly drunk, smoking cigarettes between periods and  high  lol  put up better numbers than Horvat 446 games ,275 points

[samurai]

12 hours ago, You Mad Bro? said:

Vote Gino. Only room for six more names. I nominate Pettersson 

Cannot believe Gino is not in there already - Hands down the best fighter this team has ever had.  His take down of the Blues is epic old school hockey.   If got his right going it was game over.   The guys was an elite warrior!