Canucks can only sign two of Toffoli, Tanev or Markstrom

[CRAZY_4_NAZZY]

Toffoli would be my number one priority imo.  I think Benning has given a chance for this team to finally have twp legitimate top six lines since 2011?  Toffoli has already shown to play a style that meshes well with either Petey or Horvat, its hard to find players that can play in the top six let alone already establish some sort of chemistry.  Its hard to find players who can score regularly in a top six position, I'd be hard press to sign Toffoli.

 

To me there is more fluidity around whether to keep Tanev and Markstrom.  If Tanev didn't have as much health question marks surrounding him, Id be more inclined to keep him.  But if you walk away from him, that d-core gets significantly worse.  Tryamkin, Rafferty, etc are not the same quality defensively like Tanev (not as of yet).  He has slowed down with his skating as well, but seems to have shown a lot of chemistry with our top dman, who I think is the only one who pairs with him perfectly.  I am also leary of keeping Marky depending on terms because he is already 30 like Tanev, and how will he maintain his level of play, was this year a career high or is there more to his game?  With Demko awaiting to eventually become a starter (albeit not quite ready) gives me pause for the long term whether its better to walk away from Marky.  However, Marky was sensational and really seemed to be the backbone of this team, and it showed when he was absent. 

 

I think its always possible to find ways to sign all 3 but it brings to question who do you move to make room and whether teams are willing to take these players.

[-Stammer-]

aw man I hope we don't lose any of these guys, Tanev seems like a big part of the dressing room along with being a great defenceman. It's gonna hurt losing one of them if that's the reality

[Phil_314]

1 hour ago, Fanuck said:

I've heard this argument from various points of view several times now in the past couple months.   

 

One not insignificant factor which I feel is being greatly undervalued when people suggest Toffoli/Marky are priorities over Tanev is the role that Tanev played in Hughes' development this season.   Hughes partner for the majority of his regular shifts was Tanev and that was not by accident,  nor was Hughes Calder calibre season.   Imagine Tanev riding shotgun for Hughes next season to help elevate his game even more or better yet, imagine Tanev being paired with OJ and having a similar effect on his development?  What would that be worth to our franchise? 

 

I'm not saying Tanev is a must sign over anyone else, just that nobody ever seems to mention the importance of  having an asset in place to assist in the development of young defenceman coming up in the system and the long-term value in that - all they focus on is his age and injury history.   But there's way more value in Tanev than that imo.

Asking this because I don't remember, did Stecher ever get a chance to play with Hughes?  I feel like Troy can bring some of the similar traits (mobility in two-way play, plus a tad more tenacity for the size) and probably at a discounted rate.  Edler with Myers for primary big minutes/ physical opposition and then him with Troy could probably be still as solid, or we could swap the two righties as needed for more balance. 

Since Hughes' own mobility has enabled him to get out of trouble with different partners and he's noted for his own vision and evasiveness, I feel like this tandem with Troy would be a partnership to not overlook esp. in a cap crunch.  You do raise valid points regarding their symbiotic relationship and mutually beneficial play style, but again Hughes is already a great two-way D-man in his own right, so maybe we could take off the proverbial training wheels/ help that Tanev provided without losing too much?  Toffoli when he's on the ice also provides a great outlet option and he's also a hounding back-checker, whereas Tanev doesn't come close in the scoring department. 

[CRAZY_4_NAZZY]

17 minutes ago, Phil_314 said:

Asking this because I don't remember, did Stecher ever get a chance to play with Hughes?  I feel like Troy can bring some of the similar traits (mobility in two-way play, plus a tad more tenacity for the size) and probably at a discounted rate.  Edler with Myers for primary big minutes/ physical opposition and then him with Troy could probably be still as solid, or we could swap the two righties as needed for more balance. 

Since Hughes' own mobility has enabled him to get out of trouble with different partners and he's noted for his own vision and evasiveness, I feel like this tandem with Troy would be a partnership to not overlook esp. in a cap crunch.  You do raise valid points regarding their symbiotic relationship and mutually beneficial play style, but again Hughes is already a great two-way D-man in his own right, so maybe we could take off the proverbial training wheels/ help that Tanev provided without losing too much?  Toffoli when he's on the ice also provides a great outlet option and he's also a hounding back-checker, whereas Tanev doesn't come close in the scoring department. 

I did see a statistic in a province article that in brief stints that Hughes and Stecher had together their corsi was really good and overall zone exits were fairly effective compared to other pairings with Hughes.

 

However, I think those were fairly short lived such as after Penalty kills or either one of them stayed on the ice for prolonged stretches.  I think there is more speculation that the coaching don't like having two sub six feet dman together fearing of that pairing being manhandled in the defensive zone.

 

Its worth a consideration for sure.

[timberz21]

Basically what I have been saying for a while.  While we do need Tanev, he will never live-up to his new contract.  Might help us for 2020-21, but will hamper us after that.  Highly doubt he settle for less than 4 years.  This is his last contract IMO.  

 

As for Toffoli, I'm all up for re-signing him too, but I'm afraid of the price tag.  Benning as been pretty adamant of setting a standard within the organization.  Bo and Brock are signed at reasonable price and until EP is re-signed Toffoli will be the highest paid player on this team IMO.  But looking at comparable, if Toffoli is looking to get over 7M$, then we'll have to pass.

 

Tyler Toffoli, 28, 300 pts in 525 games

Chris Kreider, 28, 316 pts in 523 games, 6.5M$ for 7 years extension

Brayden Schenn, 28, 429 pts in 657 games, 6.5M$ for 8 years extension

Kyle Connor, 22, 201 pts in 249 games, 7.142M$  for 7 years extension

Matt Duchene, 28, 589 pts in 793 games, 8M$ for 7 years extension

 

Honestly, before doing this exercise, I thought the comparable would be much higher.  Now I'm actually thinking we have a decent shot at keeping him.  At least we'll know if it doesn't work out, it's because Toffoli was too gready.  Benning paid a good price for him, I doubt he's going to lowball him to stay now, he'll pay a fair price I believe, and he has some pretty good comparable arguments on his side too.

 

[apollo]

Tanev is not replaceable if he's willing to take a team friendly deal... if he's asking for 6 year 6AAV... then maybe yes... but he's gonna be taking a home town discount like Eddie did.

 

This guy is the epitome of what it means to be a Canuck... fights through some of the toughest match ups...

 

He lives here and looks really positive when asked about the city during his interviews.

 

Tyler, Chris and Jacob... if you want to be part of a dynasty and live in the worlds most majestic city, then take the right deals. You have an opportunity to be part of history here.

 

Here's to all 3 taking rightful discounts to win a cup! Even if its short 2 year term.

Edited April 27, 2020 by apollo

[Fanuck]

46 minutes ago, Phil_314 said:

Asking this because I don't remember, did Stecher ever get a chance to play with Hughes? 

According to the frozenpool shift tracker website Hughes played less than 4% of his even strength shifts with Stecher, which is basically none - apparently Green and his staff don't like that combination very much for some reason? 

 

If we can manage some peripheral moves here/there (as well hope for a cbo - or two) and if JB offers Tanev a reasonable hometown deal (like he did Edler), I don't see a career Canuck like Tanev playing hardball and refusing a deal which works for both sides current situation.   

 

As mentioned earlier,  there are so many variables in play......it's anyone's guess how this all plays out.

[Phil_314]

17 minutes ago, CRAZY_4_NAZZY said:

However, I think those were fairly short lived such as after Penalty kills or either one of them stayed on the ice for prolonged stretches.  I think there is more speculation that the coaching don't like having two sub six feet dman together fearing of that pairing being manhandled in the defensive zone.

 

Its worth a consideration for sure.

I think this is the narrative that management's bought into given how previous playoffs have gone (e.g. the lumbering beasts on the St. Louis and Boston blue-lines), but I hope the failed Erik Gudbranson experiment and the (IMO) mediocre showing from Tyler Myers when it comes to clearing guys from the crease changes their mind. 

It matters if the big guy can reach their check and dislodge the puck then move it out, but not enough to have either/ or.  Maybe Edler - Stech and Hughes - Myers then (since someone like Spurgeon in Minny is paired with the larger and mobile Ryan Suter), but I think against a smaller line this pairing could see some time.

For reference, Tanev has all of 11 lbs on Stecher, even though he's 3 inches taller, YET in all 4 of Troy's seasons he's never missed more games than Tanev (who's missed 67 more).  Unless Hughes has a part-time job as bubble wrap and the fountain of youth for his partner, Tanev most likely will get injured and age out, and in those times I'd say a smaller guy who's fit for the current NHL is better than none at all (and this might all be moot if Tree comes back).    

[Lancaster]

The thing with Tanev, it's just going to be on a decline from here on out.  

While Tanev has been a good soldier for the Canucks, at some point you need more new blood in the system. 

So unless Tanev is going to take a massive discount, like max $3.75 - 4 million, it's better for him to move on and get the salary he deserves.  

[peaches5]

I am not saying this article is correct but if it were I would bet Tanev and Markstrom are the ones to stay as I can see them taking a discount. I don't imagine Toffoli will take a discount and he could get 7m from a desperate team depending on what the cap ends up being.

Edited April 27, 2020 by peaches5

[Ronaldoescobar]

For better or worse i think its Tanev/Markstrom who the Nucks keep. 

[Type R]

I'm not very familiar with the cap situation, but by my estimation, it will take a minimum of $16m to get all 3 back even if Tanev and Marky take a bit of a discount to stay.  5.5 for Marky 3.5 Tanev and 6 for Toffoli and I can't see Tanev taking that much of a discount.

If Benning feels Tanev has more healthy years left (and he did great this year imo) then I can see him shedding Ben and Stetcher to afford him, and utilizing our Utica depth more next year.

[theo5789]

14 minutes ago, Phil_314 said:

I think this is the narrative that management's bought into given how previous playoffs have gone (e.g. the lumbering beasts on the St. Louis and Boston blue-lines), but I hope the failed Erik Gudbranson experiment and the (IMO) mediocre showing from Tyler Myers when it comes to clearing guys from the crease changes their mind. 

It matters if the big guy can reach their check and dislodge the puck then move it out, but not enough to have either/ or.  Maybe Edler - Stech and Hughes - Myers then (since someone like Spurgeon in Minny is paired with the larger and mobile Ryan Suter), but I think against a smaller line this pairing could see some time.

For reference, Tanev has all of 11 lbs on Stecher, even though he's 3 inches taller, YET in all 4 of Troy's seasons he's never missed more games than Tanev (who's missed 67 more).  Unless Hughes has a part-time job as bubble wrap and the fountain of youth for his partner, Tanev most likely will get injured and age out, and in those times I'd say a smaller guy who's fit for the current NHL is better than none at all (and this might all be moot if Tree comes back).    

The reason Tanev has taken a beating is cause he's the first guy over the boards on every PK (unless he took the penalty, which is rare for him) and he faces the toughest assignments night in and night out. Stecher may be healthier in games played, but generally Tanev gets more minutes per game (including the harder ones). This season, Tanev has played 300 more minutes than Stecher while both have been healthy. Hughes has alleviated the pressure for Tanev and Myers has taken some of the hard minutes. If we add Tryamkin, opponents may shift some of their attack away from the right side (something that Stecher would not do) which could also alleviate more of the challenges Tanev faces letting him play at the top level of his game while maintaining his health.

 

Tanev has always been complimented for his intelligence and despite not having great offensive numbers, he contributes to the success which is why he's almost always on the plus side of things despite being a defensive dman facing the top opposition.

 

Love Stech's heart and drive, but he's simply a very good bottom pairing guy that would compliment a solid top 4. However at 3+ million, he would be pricing himself out of that spot on most good teams. His best bet if he wants that type of money is to play for a bottom feeder (like Hutton), but take the best offer you can get as soon as you can (unlike Hutton). Otherwise take a paycut and join a team like Nashville who loves their BC boys and I think he would flourish in their bottom pairing, much like Yannick Weber did. He would have to take quite a significant paycut to stay here (unless we can unload some pieces easily) and accept a lesser role (see Biega).

[BlastPast]

They keep all three somehow for a combined ~14.5m.

[thundernuts]

Obviously, this really depends on the dollars and term that these players are asking.  Assuming that they will get paid at fair market value, I agree that only 2 of the 3 can be signed.  

 

Tough decisions will need to be made.  My feeling is they will sign Marksrom and Toffoli, and let Tanev walk, hopefully trading his rights for a pick prior to July 1.  I also have a feeling that Boeser could become a trade chip to bring in a top 2-4 dman, should they choose not to resign Tanev.  

 

All of this will change if there are Covid compliance buy outs, or if any or all of these UFA's decide to test the market.

[ruilin96]

If we can have a compliance buy-out on LE and ship out Baertchi, we should be good to bring all 3 back.

Edited April 27, 2020 by ruilin96

[theo5789]

13 minutes ago, peaches5 said:

I am not saying this article is correct but if it were I would bet Tanev and Markstrom are the ones to stay as I can see them taking a discount. I don't imagine Toffoli will take a discount and he could get 7m from a desperate team depending on what the cap ends up being.

I think teams are going to be weary risking overpaying this offseason to bolster their lineup. Many teams are going to be trying to shed cap or otherwise they are teams that are bottom feeders that aren't looking to add (and Toffoli has said he doesn't want to play for a bottom feeder). I don't think he will take a discount either, but I don't think he has a lot of leverage to ask for an overpay. I'm expecting somewhere between 5.5-6.5 for him, but we are more likely to be able to afford to keep him he can be signed for under 6.

 

I was expecting Markstrom to get 6 million a season, but might go down to 5.5 or so if we protect him in expansion (but still could have a limited trade clause). Tanev at best might take 4.5 (which is the same pay he's getting now), but I'm thinking he might take 5 to lock in.

[billabong]

Toffoli is no.1 priority. this team has been built on a strong forward group lines 1-4 and he polishes it off.

 

Tanev is a tricky one cause Hughes has leaned on him this year but if his demands are 4+ years or 5m+ then im out. 

 

Markstrom was the MVP no doubt about it, but the league is changing and have a 5 - 6m+ goalie is not good practice anymore. Demko showed me enough to say that next year he'll be a little better and with a veteran back up we'll be just fine. I am 100% ok with letting him walk because I really doubt he will be able to replicate that performance again.

 

There is a few capable NHL goalies that are going to be available this off season via UFA status; Halak, Khudobin, Smith and Talbot. Any one of those around 2.5-3.5m on a preferably 1 year deal would be ideal. Which i think we might see so the goalie world can keep control of their future with the looming expansion draft next summer.

 

If you're one of those "we must sign markstrom at all costs... we need him...without him we are a lottery team again" then what you're really saying is we need to play better in front of our goalie with an improved blueline. That was the underling wrinkle in his performance was because the canucks kept putting him in situations to look amazing or let in a goal that was completely not his fault. 

 

top 3 priorities this off season for the Canucks

 

1) Re-sign Toffoli. Within reason of course

 

2) Improve that blue line. Bring in a defensive specialist just to get the puck out, make good reads and box guys out down low. The whole reason the canucks kept blowing 3rd period leads was because the kept making stupid mistakes and couldn't make the simple play

 

3) 100% Baertschi will traded, bought out or his contract will be terminated. But beyond that this team has to get rid of Sutter or Eriksson. Getting rid of both might be wishful thinking, so getting rid of just one, likely Sutter, would free up enough space to re-sign Toffoli and tinker with the blue line. 

 

[BowtieCanuck]

As silly as this may sound to some, I think Markstrom having a career year in a contract year isn't enough to justify re-signing him for the high price he'll be asking for. Maybe bringing in someone like Halak as a stopover until Demko can go full blast starter is a better idea.

[theo5789]

11 minutes ago, Type R said:

I'm not very familiar with the cap situation, but by my estimation, it will take a minimum of $16m to get all 3 back even if Tanev and Marky take a bit of a discount to stay.  5.5 for Marky 3.5 Tanev and 6 for Toffoli and I can't see Tanev taking that much of a discount.

If Benning feels Tanev has more healthy years left (and he did great this year imo) then I can see him shedding Ben and Stetcher to afford him, and utilizing our Utica depth more next year.

You say minimum 16 million, but your total there is 15 million

 

Tanev at 4.5 million is not as much of a discount and much more feasible for both sides.

 

I think Stecher is as good as gone at his price tag (love the guy, just can't afford him). Only way I see us moving on from Benn is by waiving him to save about a million and replacing him with Utica depth as you say, but that might save only around 300k which is better than nothing. I'd be surprised if a team was willing to trade for him given the season he had. This might be attractive if say we re-sign Fantenberg for roughly the same amount or a similar player and have someone like Brisebois/Teves (or maybe even a surprise like Juolevi or Rathbone ready to rotate in and out with that bottom pairing spot). Hard to see us keeping Benn in the NHL without freeing up cap elsewhere.