Canucks can only sign two of Toffoli, Tanev or Markstrom

[Kobayashi Maru]

Key focus of this team is the next three years. Markstrom and Toffoli are part of that and I would suggest Tryamkin takes Tanev’s place.  Sure they aren’t the same but don’t forget the attributes of physicality, deterring forwards from his area, and better pick movement balance out not being quite at the Tanev level of D.  He is three years more mature from when we last saw him.

Just think of a situation where we sign Tanev for 4 years at 5mil per season and he goes back to his regular injury trajectory.  We will all question that signing.  Guaranteed!

[Junkyard Dog]

If we get compliance buyouts and/or trade out some contracts (Sutter, Eriksson, Benn, Roussel, Baer) you can sign all 3.

 

It could take a lot of work from JB and co but it is very possible to re-sign them all.

[filthycanuck]

21 hours ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Agree with trading BB. Great kid, but it makes sense.

 

The cupboards were sooo empty when JB took over. We can't go squandering young(TDL)assets now.

Brock would be hugely marketable in a US city. A 1st & good young player with size/speed would be an ideal return.

 

& if we get Nik's John Henry, I'd prob let CT walk. He's been a helluva' soldier..let him go nab a hefty 5 yr deal. Guy deserves a windfall.

I don't agree with trading Brock Boeser. Took as 6- 7 years to FINALLY have a legit top 6 forward group, and now you want to trade one of them? LOL, and quite possibly the winger with the most potential,. Doesn't make sense. You know what does make sense? Having Boeser and Toffoli in the game , which we've never seen before

[filthycanuck]

On 4/27/2020 at 10:43 PM, Provost said:

Not nearly as simple as that.  Boeser is better than Toffoli.  Period.

Boeser's early career average in PPG is better than Toffoli's best career year.  Boeser has a ton of upside still and Toffoli is in the middle of his prime.  Toffoli had a great 10 games in the start of his Canucks career... players often have that when moving to a new team.  Pearson did as well and has come back down to earth since.

Boeser is also close with his team mates and part of the new "core", even in Petterson's most recent interview from home he talked about Boeser being one of his close friends on the team.  He is in the age range that we are building around, Toffoli is a complementary veteran player.

Boeser isn't untouchable, but it had really better be a home run because you are at best treading water, and at worst losing out on swapping those two guys.

Virtanen is the odd man out in any pure hockey discussion.  He hasn't earned his way into the top 6 regularly, is not as good as either Toffoli or Boeser, and is likely to be overpaid for a 3rd line winger.  We have MacEwan who can fill that spot, and Podkolzin just another season away who would push Jake further down the roster.

2 years ago, Boeser was the toast of the town, "hes elite this, elite that", "best young sniper in the game" yadda yadda, he was walking on water in this city, we get Toffoli and all of sudden, "hey lets trade brock!". Complete MORONS

[filthycanuck]

3 hours ago, Kobayashi Maru said:

Key focus of this team is the next three years. Markstrom and Toffoli are part of that and I would suggest Tryamkin takes Tanev’s place.  Sure they aren’t the same but don’t forget the attributes of physicality, deterring forwards from his area, and better pick movement balance out not being quite at the Tanev level of D.  He is three years more mature from when we last saw him.

Just think of a situation where we sign Tanev for 4 years at 5mil per season and he goes back to his regular injury trajectory.  We will all question that signing.  Guaranteed!

Sign Toffoli, yes, Markstrom no, I'd rather have Tanev sign. Top 4 D-men simply put are more of a commodity and harder to acquire. Theres more decent - good goalies that are available (assuming ur not a fan of Demko starting) than there are starting jobs, theres only 32 of them available, simple supply and demand.

[Kobayashi Maru]

9 hours ago, filthycanuck said:

Sign Toffoli, yes, Markstrom no, I'd rather have Tanev sign. Top 4 D-men simply put are more of a commodity and harder to acquire. Theres more decent - good goalies that are available (assuming ur not a fan of Demko starting) than there are starting jobs, theres only 32 of them available, simple supply and demand.

That is certainly a good point and I am actually a big fan of Demko.  I just think he had a slight stall in his dev and won't be ready to be the starter quite yet.  I would sign Markstrom to a 4 year and likely trade him to another team when Demko is fully established in 2 years.  We have a strong window right now and adding risk to G where we have no risk would be too risky.  D can be next man up (Tryamkin, Rafferty, Joulevi etc) but goalie isn't quite as easy.

[Sedinyoureyesontheprize]

How much cap space will we have to sign the three ?

[alt kilgore]

We need LE to retire his contract right after he gets his next (unearned) bonus this July 1st.  I would regard it a big failure on the part of JB if this doesn't happen. Whether its by honey or vinegar. Offer him an equivalent amount of money he has left after that, I believe 3 million, for an ornamental job like the Panthers gave Lu. Or even a real job like assisting the Swedish player scouts.

or

Tell him in no uncertain terms that if he doesn't, and most everyone else is healthy going into the season, he will be sent to Utica.  And will play out his last two seasons there. A third or fourth line perennial AHLer riding busses again. Maybe he'd go for that, but for how long?

And no, I wouldn't feel sorry for poor Louie. He'll have cashed out I believe $32 million for his production here so far by then. Frankly, I'd be embarrassed to come back and play just to scrape out that last few mill. The criticism is only going to get worse. And not just on CDC. 

 

Then all this worry is moot.

[Gurn]

16 minutes ago, kilgore said:

Offer him an equivalent amount of money he has left after that, I believe 3 million, for an ornamental job like the Panthers gave Lu

And watch the league fine the Canuck org for cap circumvention. And as a repeat offender in the leagues eyes the fine would likely be massive.

 

[Googlie]

22 hours ago, filthycanuck said:

I don't agree with trading Brock Boeser. Took as 6- 7 years to FINALLY have a legit top 6 forward group, and now you want to trade one of them? LOL, and quite possibly the winger with the most potential,. Doesn't make sense. You know what does make sense? Having Boeser and Toffoli in the game , which we've never seen before

Bure and Mogilny say "Hi"

[IBatch]

At this moment in time all three seem like essential players...and probably are. That said pretty much the same could be said for Big Balls, LE, Vanek, Miller, Myers etc...Ferland maybe too and the results have been mixed.   That said one, two or at worst all three of these guys contracts could come back to haunt us for different reasons.   Health is always a concern with Tanev - that’s an easy one - but at some point regression is too and personally I think his arc peaked and is on the down slide - not that his play won’t drop off a cliff but injuries pile up and don’t make it easier.   Markstrom...well he’s been a beast for us for 1.5 years - but not before that, it’s a fickle position these days one year great the next mediocre or even bad... TT - way too small a sample size,  paying more then 5 is a big risk ... And JV (or someone else) could make him yet another overpaid middle six player. 
 

Of course they could all work out brilliantly too.   But history shows this doesn’t happen often for most teams.   The team should also be considering other options.  Like J.T. Miller 2.0 - another trade for a younger player under a great contract that’s getting squeezed out due to cap - a defenseman this time preferably (if available).   Or other free agents ... Holtby vs Markstrom...hmm tough one there.     Plus where is the money later for EP and QHs?   I’m sure that all three will get signed- or at least two of them - but I’m not so sure we should be and glad I don’t have to make these decisions. 

[IBatch]

3 hours ago, Googlie said:

Bure and Mogilny say "Hi"

Yeah this made me chuckle...loads of examples really - Adams and Courtnall say hi too...

[IBatch]

On 4/28/2020 at 10:55 AM, Jimmy McGill said:

uber agent Kurt Overhardt is pushing for teams to be able to have an "exceptional player" on the roster who's salary doesn't count toward the cap. Interesting idea, for him  I'm sure he'd love stars to be abel to command massive salaries outside of the cap system. 

 

I can't see this idea gaining much traction, a new compliance buyout window seems more likely to me. 

 

 

 

Ha! Bastard stole my idea.  Have been suggesting this for years - almost since when the cap started as predicted that the quality of rivalries would diminish and that teams would end up too close in the standings, dynastic teams would become a thing of the past etc.   Wish they would create a hybrid system of some sorts or do something else to allow teams to have more talent on one team for more then 2-3 years...get that salaries needed to be contained and not sure this would work - but teams with the money should also be allowed to spend more of it if they would like too...and this would be one way to do it. Owning an NHL team has become a money making machine since the lock-out, and it’s the fans that lost the most from it.  Shoot-outs...pathetic.  Skills competitions shouldn’t mean the difference in who takes the two wild card spots...and rivalries have diminished because for one to start you need two great teams going hammer and tong for a period...CHI/VAN might have been the best after the usual suspects PHI/PIT and Boston/MTL which have both cooled of and the Battle of Alberta has too... this might work or just serve to jack salaries up...probably a little of both. 

Edited April 30, 2020 by IBatch

[IBatch]

On 4/27/2020 at 11:55 AM, Me_ said:

I saw a video regarding keeping the three major UFAs Toffoli, Tanev and Markstrom that made me really consider the matter.

 

Personally, after what I saw from Toffoli, he's not even a discussion. The MILLER - PETTERSON - TOFFOLI line slowed the game down so much they made the opposition look amateur.

 

You keep that guy.

 

So it comes down to Tanev or Markstrom. I believe that Markstrom is necessary while Tanev is replaceable.
 

Don't get me wrong. I love Tanev's game. He's still a top 5 league wide Defensive Defenseman. But Markstrom has come into his own and stops the puck at the right time. So many spectacular saves. He's as close to Luongo good as we can have in net.

 

I make the argument that Tanev is the most expendable UFA of the three. With Hughes on his way to becoming one of the best 1D in the league, pairing Edler or Myers with Hughes equals what Tanev does. Again; Tanev is ACE. But perhaps not as necessary as a top notch scorer and a top notch goalie.

 

I believe Tryamkin would be a good addition to the Canucks, further making Tanev expendable. However, if Benning can sign all three somehow, that would definitely be best case.

 

Tanev a top five league wide defensive defenseman?  THN does a Langway award each year and has for some time (best defensive defensmeman) and can’t recall seeing Tanevs name listed once (they do the top 5 plus honourable mentions sometimes) and can’t find that anywhere when searching other sites/reports either (saying Tanev is top five at his trade).   That’s a bit of a homer view .  Elkholm, Pesce, Slavin, Vlasic, Weber (I’d call him a two-way guy but defense is defense and he’s still one of the best at that), Manson and several others but Tanev doesn’t come up.   Going back to 2013 Hamhuis and Bieksa were named in a top 25 overall (13th and 9th respectively) in one article but guess that’s too far back.   Tanev always ends up on trade threads - we believe TO needs him desperately...trade deadlines pass and we can’t add picks with the players we have - and Tanevs contract should make him low hanging fruit and who wouldn’t want a “top five “ like Elkholm or Pesce or Slavin or Vlasic right?    He’s been a good soldier for us but is easily the one of these three to walk away from given his injury history and that his play has started to decline. I’m not sold on TT either but would sure be a nice add to our to six.  Marsktorm - give him the big contract - he’s earned it. 
 

 

[Lazurus]

There is more to it than a simply selection of 2 of 3 players.

 

If Markstrom is signed then Demko will go, he won't want to be a back up for his career and the team can't pay him starter money to do so, then there is the expansion draft where he would be selected to use as trade bait or their starter possibly.

 

Toffoli has other interests, his wife has a career in LA and LA is retooling, now that they have Madden and a bushel basket of picks along with a lot of cap space they will want him as much as the Canucks do and the Canucks cannot get into a bidding war. Besides to Toffoli LA still looks closer to a playoff spot having more established star players, albeit aging but they are retooling.

 

Tanev is finally being noticed the way hockey is played now, he will want to cash in on his last opportunity for a big contract.

 

The one thing is the cap, the Canucks are really really in cap trouble, too many clause contracts, too many under performing veterans, too many players with health issues that other teams will not want to take a chance on at the full contract cap hit.

 

The Canucks have players already taking up over 60 million in cap space plus another 8+ million in bonuses, recapture and buyouts.

They have to be under the cap before the season starts and the LTIR guys are supposedly healthy now.

That would leave about 11 mil to sign 9 to 10 players if the cap stays the same.

 

Toffoli would want a raise probably around 5.5 mil but if LA offers that much the Canucks might have to go to a mil more, 6.5 mil

Markstrom will be a hot commodity, at 30 his agent and the NHLPA will want him to maximize his earnings and there are at least 5 teams that have cap space and could want him, again if the Canucks keep him, an aging goalie with a limited shelf life, it will cost them the young goalie in waiting and precious cap space.

 

Tanev is the easiest to resign without any real drama, but he will want at least Myers and Edler money with term and clause taking him to retirement. A number that starts with a 6 no doubt.

 

Canucks total guaranteed contracts signed this year equal almost 90 million. LTIR and buried have helped keep them under.

 

If it was a fantasy game and the Canucks were a real threat for a playoff spot or cup run. Just remember they only won 4 of their last 11 games and were trending down the charts as the heat turned up.

[JM_]

5 hours ago, IBatch said:

Ha! Bastard stole my idea.  Have been suggesting this for years - almost since when the cap started as predicted that the quality of rivalries would diminish and that teams would end up too close in the standings, dynastic teams would become a thing of the past etc.   Wish they would create a hybrid system of some sorts or do something else to allow teams to have more talent on one team for more then 2-3 years...get that salaries needed to be contained and not sure this would work - but teams with the money should also be allowed to spend more of it if they would like too...and this would be one way to do it. Owning an NHL team has become a money making machine since the lock-out, and it’s the fans that lost the most from it.  Shoot-outs...pathetic.  Skills competitions shouldn’t mean the difference in who takes the two wild card spots...and rivalries have diminished because for one to start you need two great teams going hammer and tong for a period...CHI/VAN might have been the best after the usual suspects PHI/PIT and Boston/MTL which have both cooled of and the Battle of Alberta has too... this might work or just serve to jack salaries up...probably a little of both. 

nah its just another way for Toronto to skirt the cap. The league parity has led to some pretty exciting playoffs rounds too. 

[cowboy644]

This season for Tanev was an outlier.The guy misses to much hockey.Even with him in this years line up the D hasn't been good except Hughs.Wasn't Tanev hurt when the season stopped.If the season starts up and ends up compressed(and the Canucks make the playoffs)and Tanev plays a lot of games with little  time off his injury problem will surface again I'm sure.Move on and bring up someone from the farm if they have to.Tramkin should not even be a consideration unless he spends time in Utica to show he can even play hockey on the small ice,

[theo5789]

39 minutes ago, cowboy644 said:

This season for Tanev was an outlier.The guy misses to much hockey.Even with him in this years line up the D hasn't been good except Hughs.Wasn't Tanev hurt when the season stopped.If the season starts up and ends up compressed(and the Canucks make the playoffs)and Tanev plays a lot of games with little  time off his injury problem will surface again I'm sure.Move on and bring up someone from the farm if they have to.Tramkin should not even be a consideration unless he spends time in Utica to show he can even play hockey on the small ice,

Not gonna bother with the Tanev part, but Tryamkin has played 79 NHL games (didn't look out of place) and in his last KHL season (one of his best defensive years and Benning sees him as a shutdown specialist), they reduced their ice size that far closer to a NHL sized rink. Did you also suggest someone like Panarin should start in the AHL first because he came from the KHL? Technically Tryamkin had more experience on small ice than him.

 

I can understand starting Tryamkin in a lesser bottom pairing role to see where he's at against NHL competition, but he's proven that he can play on smaller ice so there's nothing to prove for him in Utica IMO. 

[theo5789]

5 hours ago, Lazurus said:

There is more to it than a simply selection of 2 of 3 players.

 

If Markstrom is signed then Demko will go, he won't want to be a back up for his career and the team can't pay him starter money to do so, then there is the expansion draft where he would be selected to use as trade bait or their starter possibly.

Have to see how Demko progresses. Goaltenders aren't really an easy position to trade as there's only so many spots for them. If he was good enough to be starter, we likely could trade him before the expansion or simply have him be the draft shield and move on.

 

5 hours ago, Lazurus said:

Toffoli has other interests, his wife has a career in LA and LA is retooling, now that they have Madden and a bushel basket of picks along with a lot of cap space they will want him as much as the Canucks do and the Canucks cannot get into a bidding war. Besides to Toffoli LA still looks closer to a playoff spot having more established star players, albeit aging but they are retooling.

If LA wants veteran prescence for their youth, they have Kopitar, Brown, and Doughty (amongst a couple of others). They were near dead last this year, so it'll be curious to see how they are considered closer to a playoff spot than us. I believe Toffoli has mentioned that he wants to play for a competitive team.

 

5 hours ago, Lazurus said:

Tanev is finally being noticed the way hockey is played now, he will want to cash in on his last opportunity for a big contract.

If he wants to stay, he knows he likely can't take on full value and who knows what his full value will be now with the cap uncertainty. He needs to be certain that a team will pay him what he thinks he's worth, otherwise he might price himself out and as teams fill out, he loses his leverage. What people criticize him for now is not going to suddenly be news for the other GMs who have pro scouts.

 

5 hours ago, Lazurus said:

The one thing is the cap, the Canucks are really really in cap trouble, too many clause contracts, too many under performing veterans, too many players with health issues that other teams will not want to take a chance on at the full contract cap hit.

 

The Canucks have players already taking up over 60 million in cap space plus another 8+ million in bonuses, recapture and buyouts.

They have to be under the cap before the season starts and the LTIR guys are supposedly healthy now.

That would leave about 11 mil to sign 9 to 10 players if the cap stays the same.

We have about 7 players with clauses (including an expiring Tanev). Most teams have around this number. We are tight in cap space, but I don't think we are in major trouble. Worst case is we can't sign one of these 3 "bigger priced" players. I believe we are closer to 6 million in bonuses, recapture, and buyouts (capfriendly has a potential bonus overage number that I don't think we will max out on).

 

5 hours ago, Lazurus said:

Toffoli would want a raise probably around 5.5 mil but if LA offers that much the Canucks might have to go to a mil more, 6.5 mil

Markstrom will be a hot commodity, at 30 his agent and the NHLPA will want him to maximize his earnings and there are at least 5 teams that have cap space and could want him, again if the Canucks keep him, an aging goalie with a limited shelf life, it will cost them the young goalie in waiting and precious cap space.

I don't think we need to outbid LA. I think if LA wants him, they will want him at a discount rather than for his raise price tag as I doubt they want ti soend that much for uncompetitive years (even if they are re-tooling, they aren't bouncing back from where they are now by next season). More likely is that LA will hope he will sign with them for 4-4.5 million if they even want him back and I expect we could lock him down for around 5-5.5 million. The UFA market is going to be hit this offseason and players aren't going to have the leverage that they would've had if the cap was going up. Who's in the market for Markstrom really? Markstrom wants to be here, so we will see how they make it work.

 

5 hours ago, Lazurus said:

Tanev is the easiest to resign without any real drama, but he will want at least Myers and Edler money with term and clause taking him to retirement. A number that starts with a 6 no doubt.

As mentioned above, the market isn't going to be like previous years. Plus Tanev seems to want to be here. If he indeed wants 6, then he's priced himself out here and I wish him the best in finding a team that would take him on at that price tag. I think he will sign for 4.5-5 personally.

 

5 hours ago, Lazurus said:

Canucks total guaranteed contracts signed this year equal almost 90 million. LTIR and buried have helped keep them under.

If Toronto can make being 10 million over the cap work, I'm sure we can figure something out.

 

5 hours ago, Lazurus said:

If it was a fantasy game and the Canucks were a real threat for a playoff spot or cup run. Just remember they only won 4 of their last 11 games and were trending down the charts as the heat turned up.

Make the playoffs or not this year, we would be fighting until the end of the season. This is experience for the young core in feeling this heat and hopefully they learn from it and up their game that much more next season. We continue to trend back up and now we may not know if we would gone over that hump, but if not this year, I'm confident that we will get there next year and who knows once you get into the playoffs.

[SilentSam]

1 hour ago, cowboy644 said:

This season for Tanev was an outlier.The guy misses to much hockey.Even with him in this years line up the D hasn't been good except Hughs.Wasn't Tanev hurt when the season stopped.If the season starts up and ends up compressed(and the Canucks make the playoffs)and Tanev plays a lot of games with little  time off his injury problem will surface again I'm sure.Move on and bring up someone from the farm if they have to.Tramkin should not even be a consideration unless he spends time in Utica to show he can even play hockey on the small ice,

Your bang on with Tanev,.   He might take a top pairing with any top 2 d men.  But his tendency to be injured messes up the pairings around him..  even if he signed for 3.5 - 4 m , I personally think it’s time to move on.

Tryamkin has a lot to offer,.  He IS a solid shut down D man, I beleive within the next season plays with us he will prove to be the Top 2 pairing D man we have sorely missed.  Brings a totally different tool box than Tanev, but more effective.

After the draft, where some trades will take place,  I’m hoping to see Petrangelo, and / or Ristolianen  become available as possible additions to the Canucks.