Top 50 Canucks of All-Time - #41

[GB5]

Vote Garth - looks like he's getting his due, about time, he was a long time canuck, still an active alumni and was a fierce warrior for this team through the eighties.

 

Nominate - Rypien - the time he spent as a Canuck and a Moose left an impact that was felt across BC.

Edited May 1, 2020 by GarthButcher5

[IBatch]

56 minutes ago, GarthButcher5 said:

Vote Garth - looks like he's getting his due, about time, he was a long time canuck, still an active alumni and was a fierce warrior for this team through the eighties.

 

Nominate - Rypien - the time he spent as a Canuck and a Moose left an impact that was felt across BC.

That’s a thoughtful nomination.   A top ten fighter for us - with a great record - usually the little guy too (Sortini was a bad fighter but those bouts were impressive given his size).  Not many players all-time had a winning record like him - Bieksa only lost 3 (crazy) but his quality of competition wasn’t nearly as good either.   Brashear is one of the best fighters in league history - but I’d agree with your RR nomination - he brought a fierce courage to his team.  Walker was like that too - another guy worthy of some consideration - his bloody battle with I think Petit after a cheap shot is legendary- destroyed him and kept on coming despite the intent to injure and face and jersey covered in blood.  
 

  Protecting Zezel instead of Walker was the first big rift with Burke and Keenan.  What a mistake that became.  Rick Rypien was definitely a fan favourite, and I’m happy to see that Gino and Williams also got recognition for the toughest job in hockey.  On Brashear - in over 80 fights with us his record is ridiculous... a few draws and no decisive losses.   And laid some beatings on some tough customers like Cam Russel (who beat McCarty who beat Walker) so badly you’d think he was fighting Bure.  His reputation got so fearsome enforcers tended to stay away (and that’s coming from them - ranked the best in the league for several years and kept it up as a top fighter right until the end tuff guys magazine used to rank them once a year - was named fighter of the year twice with us).  

Was named best fighter/enforcer of the decade in 2010 by THN.   With us his reign of terror started - and one could argue the quality of competition was never better during his career and they just got bigger and bigger.   9 fights with Probert (who was aging and in his defense didn’t like his “huggy bear” style)...but it worked and when he did open up it was almost always the other guy on the receiving end.   Had titantic battles with Boogard, Probert, McSorely, Parker, Worrel, Domi (watching him get pummelled was always enjoyable given his blowhard opinion of himself ha ha) Laraque (who he exchanged wins/draws and rare decisions with), Belak well let’s just say some very very tough men.    Actually got better with age too - better at reading when his teams needed a boost.  Was also a tenascouis forechecker and hitter and was usually among the lead leaders in points for enforcers - ie wasn’t a total liability.  
 

Sorry for turning this into a Brashear reply - I agree with your nomination - despite what Brashear managed while here (breaking Gino’a PIM record and winning every fight that year - around 30) - I’d still have Rypien ahead of him.   He was so fun to watch and there is something about the little guy winning a fight that is so energizing.   Every time he dropped them with a really good fighter and bigger guy  (Jensen, that huge OTT guy that layed a beating on Glass one year) I was thinking “he we go - he’s not going to get out of this one” - then he somehow did.  Was incredible to watch.   “he should get a ladder” vs Hal Gil...how many comments do you never forget?  That’s one of them.  I’d have him in the top ten all-time middleweights.  With Keane and Stan Jonathan...RIP. 

[-Vintage Canuck-]

At this point, the order really doesn’t matter.

 

Voting Igor Larionov.

 

Nominating Bobby Schmautz.

[Baratheon]

Hmmm I might have to switch gears with my nominations.  The recency bias misconception seems to really be picking up too much steam.  There's 2 players available to vote for who played within the last 20 years.  Those 2 guys combined have about half the votes of Garth Butcher haha!

 

At this rate someone is going to try and convince me that Steve Bozek should be ranked ahead of Boeser and EP.  I know that it is with good intentions.  I too want people to remember the heroes of the past.  My opinion is just that the past INCLUDES the last 20 years!

[CaptKirk888]

12 hours ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

A shocking amount of contempt?  Are we reading the same threads?  Who is receiving contempt?  Nobody has even posted the Cloutier beachball picture.

Stop being so contemptuous.

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, Baratheon said:

Hmmm I might have to switch gears with my nominations.  The recency bias misconception seems to really be picking up too much steam.  There's 2 players available to vote for who played within the last 20 years.  Those 2 guys combined have about half the votes of Garth Butcher haha!

 

At this rate someone is going to try and convince me that Steve Bozek should be ranked ahead of Boeser and EP.  I know that it is with good intentions.  I too want people to remember the heroes of the past.  My opinion is just that the past INCLUDES the last 20 years!

True...but 10 of the top 15 did play in the last 20 years ... Grandma loved Bozek..but have to go with BB there.   I’ve been a big critic of anyone suggesting we trade this guy - players like him don’t come around very often, injures have slowed his arc down a bit but I’m sure he will get it back.  TT comes in hot just like Pearson and all of a sudden he’s expendable ha ha.   Boeser and or Pettersson have a good argument to be in the 45-50 range... but we still have a few locks like Butcher, Ververgaet, Oddleifson, McCarthy, Lanz and Smith  to get in... When it comes down to 3 seasons or less against 4-6 years ... the waters get a little muddy.  But not a decade - Murzyn is close to that.  If Hansen gets his due so should he. 

 

 Tallon, Reinhart, Seldbauer, Halward and of course Larionov who’s already nominated come into play.  When guys like Smithers and Biestra who’ve (I assume) been around since or near the beginning make cases for (even via voting) I tend to listen pretty hard.   Larionov vs BB?  Tough call...ones a legendary Red Army and NHLer - the other had a brilliant rookie campaign, but despite that has a ridiculous amount of flak on this site for his past two campaigns.  EP - well Larionov was probably just as special at the same age - but wasn’t a Canuck then and has sold me.  He’s special.   But I suppose we thought Nedved was too so we don’t really know yet.   Think EP should be in around 45.  Reinhart is tougher but what QHs does isn’t a lot different so far and he is played one more year.   Have to give it to Reinhart.   Nothing at all wrong with all of these guys ... as long as someone like Oddliefson, Murzyn or Ververgaet doesn’t get bumped out (and Cooke is on this list which could do that).  
 

Teams been around 50 years / most of the great - decent players the past 20 years have already been nominated - and most are votable options of already in ... Mitchell has a case...maybe he’s an outlier but can’t see anyone else getting missed.

 

Edit: Fraser or Cooke?  I’d even go far as to say Gélinas vs Cooke. 
 

Edit:  Sh!t looks like I did it again and proved your point ... ha ha.  Just to be fair Hamhuis deserves the recognition he’s getting as well.  Formed part of our top defensive pairing in 2011 with Bieksa...and really was a great defenseman for us - Mr. Smooth - Lidsrom-lite.  THN actually had him at 26 - one spot ahead of Salo, three below Bieksa and 6 below Edler...and three ahead of Mogilny at 30. 

Edited May 1, 2020 by IBatch

[apollo]

The only guy that has more games played for us that Matt Cooke on this list is Butcher. I think he's well worthy of the 41st spot.

 

Will be voting for the Cooker next round.

 

Nominate Petey

[IBatch]

I’ve mentioned this enough through the process that I thought I would post it.  Three years ago THN made a book/magazine called Top 50 - Players or All-Time by Franchise.  They used four hockey historians and their senior staff to make the lists.   As mentioned earlier it got harder as they went through the ranking system - and how deep the historians did when making comparisons (such as what the coaches think/thought of the players especially defenseman and divvying up ice-time).   Well past stats - and these guys were around long enough to make proper comparisons.  Length of service matters - just like with us - which is probably why Tanev didn’t make the cut. 
 

They also have a write up for the top 25 and after that a sentence or two for each player. For the top two they said it was splitting hairs - they went with the goal scorer but personally I’d have it the other way.  The comments in brackets are exact or paraphrasing from their list. 

 

1. Daniel Sedin 2. Henrik Sedin 3. Pavel Bure (Bure is the best pure talent to wear a Canucks swearter) 4. Naslund (first Swede to win Pearson award - has more first line all-star selections then Stajonov had goals after the trade) 5. Linden 6. Ohlund (a rock could do everything) 7. Luongo (yips in playoffs hurt legacy) 8. Smyl 9. Bertuzzi 10. Kesler 

 

11. Snepsts 12. Lidster 13. Lumme 14. McLean (google 1994 save in game 7 versus Flames) 15. Boudrias 16. Jovo 17. Gradin 18. Brodeur 19. Tanti 20. Edler (occasional lapses in confidence but the Canucks most reliable minute muncher for a decade) 

21. Lever 22. Kearns 23. Bieksa (one of the meanest mugs had rough game to match) 24. Burrows (infuriated opponents with taunts and cheap shots - then he’d put the puck in the net) 25. Sundstrom (soft hands was the guy feeding Tanti owner record before Bure came along ) 26. Hamhuis (good not great at everything on top pairing) 27. Salo (known for shot and constant injuries) 28. Morrison 29. Adams 30. Mogilny 

 

31. Babych (offensive elsewhere, defensive role as a Canuck number one in mustache rankings) 32. Courtnall 33. Skriko. 34 Ronning (water-but shifty creative number two center) 35. McCarthy (hurt in 1982 run) 36. Ververgaet (hyped power forward) 37. Lanz (big guy with howitzer - the first Salo) 38 Butcher (strangler could rag-doll guys in fights) 39. Lindgren (two-way d man was an excellent passer) 40. Oddliefson (solid playmaker, checker in forgotten teams)

 

41. Rota 42. Cloutier (done in by the center ice shot) 43. Hansen (great wheels fit in in scoring or checking line) 44. Kurtenbach (checker became scorer for the team) 45. Cooke (grinder turned villain later in career) 46. Smith (key to division crown).  47 Aucoin (team record for goals in a season 23) 48. Odjick 49. Murzyn (brushing shot blocker and hitter) 50. Mitchell (cleared the net strong dressing room voice).

 

When you get down to the nitty gritty there is one glaring obmission / but they did preface the rankings that where enforcers should go was all over the map.   In a re-do five or so years from now it could get even more polarizing.  No Willams - no Fraser ... otherwise an interesting take. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[-AJ-]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

I’ve mentioned this enough through the process that I thought I would post it.  Three years ago THN made a book/magazine called Top 50 - Players or All-Time by Franchise.  They used four hockey historians and their senior staff to make the lists.   As mentioned earlier it got harder as they went through the ranking system - and how deep the historians did when making comparisons (such as what the coaches think/thought of the players especially defenseman and divvying up ice-time).   Well past stats - and these guys were around long enough to make proper comparisons.  Length of service matters - just like with us - which is probably why Tanev didn’t make the cut. 
 

They also have a write up for the top 25 and after that a sentence or two for each player. For the top two they said it was splitting hairs - they went with the goal scorer but personally I’d have it the other way.  The comments in brackets are exact or paraphrasing from their list. 

 

1. Daniel Sedin 2. Henrik Sedin 3. Pavel Bure (Bure is the best pure talent to wear a Canucks swearter) 4. Naslund (first Swede to win Pearson award - has more first line all-star selections then Stajonov had goals after the trade) 5. Linden 6. Ohlund (a rock could do everything) 7. Luongo (yips in playoffs hurt legacy) 8. Smyl 9. Bertuzzi 10. Kesler 

 

11. Snepsts 12. Lidster 13. Lumme 14. McLean (google 1994 save in game 7 versus Flames) 15. Boudrias 16. Jovo 17. Gradin 18. Brodeur 19. Tanti 20. Edler (occasional lapses in confidence but the Canucks most reliable minute muncher for a decade) 

21. Lever 22. Kearns 23. Bieksa (one of the meanest mugs had rough game to match) 24. Burrows (infuriated opponents with taunts and cheap shots - then he’d put the puck in the net) 25. Sundstrom (soft hands was the guy feeding Tanti owner record before Bure came along ) 26. Hamhuis (good not great at everything on top pairing) 27. Salo (known for shot and constant injuries) 28. Morrison 29. Adams 30. Mogilny 

 

31. Babych (offensive elsewhere, defensive role as a Canuck number one in mustache rankings) 32. Courtnall 33. Skriko. 34 Ronning (water-but shifty creative number two center) 35. McCarthy (hurt in 1982 run) 36. Ververgaet (hyped power forward) 37. Lanz (big guy with howitzer - the first Salo) 38 Butcher (strangler could rag-doll guys in fights) 39. Lindgren (two-way d man was an excellent passer) 40. Oddliefson (solid playmaker, checker in forgotten teams)

 

41. Rota 42. Cloutier (done in by the center ice shot) 43. Hansen (great wheels fit in in scoring or checking line) 44. Kurtenbach (checker became scorer for the team) 45. Cooke (grinder turned villain later in career) 46. Smith (key to division crown).  47 Aucoin (team record for goals in a season 23) 48. Odjick 49. Murzyn (brushing shot blocker and hitter) 50. Mitchell (cleared the net strong dressing room voice).

 

When you get down to the nitty gritty there is one glaring obmission / but they did preface the rankings that where enforcers should go was all over the map.   In a re-do five or so years from now it could get even more polarizing.  No Willams - no Fraser ... otherwise an interesting take. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Interesting list. I think three years could actually be quite significant when talking about active players. It explains Horvat's and to some degree Tanev's absence and also why Edler, who at the time hadn't broken all the records he now holds, is only at 20th.

[Baratheon]

2 hours ago, IBatch said:

True...but 10 of the top 15 did play in the last 20 years ... Grandma loved Bozek..but have to go with BB there.   I’ve been a big critic of anyone suggesting we trade this guy - players like him don’t come around very often, injures have slowed his arc down a bit but I’m sure he will get it back.  TT comes in hot just like Pearson and all of a sudden he’s expendable ha ha.   Boeser and or Pettersson have a good argument to be in the 45-50 range... but we still have a few locks like Butcher, Ververgaet, Oddleifson, McCarthy, Lanz and Smith  to get in... When it comes down to 3 seasons or less against 4-6 years ... the waters get a little muddy.  But not a decade - Murzyn is close to that.  If Hansen gets his due so should he. 

 

 Tallon, Reinhart, Seldbauer, Halward and of course Larionov who’s already nominated come into play.  When guys like Smithers and Biestra who’ve (I assume) been around since or near the beginning make cases for (even via voting) I tend to listen pretty hard.   Larionov vs BB?  Tough call...ones a legendary Red Army and NHLer - the other had a brilliant rookie campaign, but despite that has a ridiculous amount of flak on this site for his past two campaigns.  EP - well Larionov was probably just as special at the same age - but wasn’t a Canuck then and has sold me.  He’s special.   But I suppose we thought Nedved was too so we don’t really know yet.   Think EP should be in around 45.  Reinhart is tougher but what QHs does isn’t a lot different so far and he is played one more year.   Have to give it to Reinhart.   Nothing at all wrong with all of these guys ... as long as someone like Oddliefson, Murzyn or Ververgaet doesn’t get bumped out (and Cooke is on this list which could do that).  
 

Teams been around 50 years / most of the great - decent players the past 20 years have already been nominated - and most are votable options of already in ... Mitchell has a case...maybe he’s an outlier but can’t see anyone else getting missed.

 

Edit: Fraser or Cooke?  I’d even go far as to say Gélinas vs Cooke. 
 

Edit:  Sh!t looks like I did it again and proved your point ... ha ha.  Just to be fair Hamhuis deserves the recognition he’s getting as well.  Formed part of our top defensive pairing in 2011 with Bieksa...and really was a great defenseman for us - Mr. Smooth - Lidsrom-lite.  THN actually had him at 26 - one spot ahead of Salo, three below Bieksa and 6 below Edler...and three ahead of Mogilny at 30. 

Awww nooo!  Don't throw Matt Cooke at me!  It's not my fault okay! haha

 

My point is not that we shouldn't consider the guys that you mention.  I just think some posters (quite a few) are starting to overcompensate.  I just would like us to remain honest about the whole thing.

 

I'm not surprised that the high end of the list leans a little more modern.  Most of the Canucks career leaders ARE more modern.  I could watch the 1982 run any day of the week and twice on the weekend!  I thought that it was basically consensus however, that the Canucks' best hockey came in the early-mid 90's and again in the early 200's to the early 2010's.  Makes sense to me that more of their top players would come from those eras.

 

However yes!  Full respect to Smithers, Biestra and actually quite a few others.  I am super grateful for the reminders of guys who were also my heroes as a kid!  I certainly hope that nobody felt like I was throwing shade at them personally.  The conversations (imo) were just starting to become a one way street.  I'm just chiming in to support the boys!

[IBatch]

25 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

Interesting list. I think three years could actually be quite significant when talking about active players. It explains Horvat's and to some degree Tanev's absence and also why Edler, who at the time hadn't broken all the records he now holds, is only at 20th.

Absolutely.   And in three years the top 40 will look even different - I except EP, BB, QH to make the list - and even odds this guy too...

[IBatch]

12 minutes ago, Baratheon said:

Awww nooo!  Don't throw Matt Cooke at me!  It's not my fault okay! haha

 

My point is not that we shouldn't consider the guys that you mention.  I just think some posters (quite a few) are starting to overcompensate.  I just would like us to remain honest about the whole thing.

 

I'm not surprised that the high end of the list leans a little more modern.  Most of the Canucks career leaders ARE more modern.  I could watch the 1982 run any day of the week and twice on the weekend!  I thought that it was basically consensus however, that the Canucks' best hockey came in the early-mid 90's and again in the early 200's to the early 2010's.  Makes sense to me that more of their top players would come from those eras.

 

However yes!  Full respect to Smithers, Biestra and actually quite a few others.  I am super grateful for the reminders of guys who were also my heroes as a kid!  I certainly hope that nobody felt like I was throwing shade at them personally.  The conversations (imo) were just starting to become a one way street.  I'm just chiming in to support the boys!

Sorry about Cooke...but apologies aside THN had him at 45 only three years ago - And he would be my brother in-law if my little sister had her way when she fell in love with the Canucks during the WCE era ... so I’m 100% understanding of Apollo or whomever brings him up.  Your about as level headed as anyone during this process so no slights intended.  If anything I’m just hoping to remind guys of older players I grew up with and then later fell in love with too.  Murzyn, Babych, Ronning, Diduck, Momesso practically the entire team meant the world to me - so if others felt the same about WCE, Sedin or pre-Smyl hey I absolutely get it.   These are our hero’s - think anyone who’s on this sites viewpoint is valid - Uber fans all of us - and said early this list will be better and mean more to me then whatever THN or others have made - and do think the balance between the dark and light couldn’t be perfect.  Dark pre Linden and light post Linden - and grey while he was here ha ha.  Linden is and will be the greatest Canuck ever IMO until we finally win a cup.  He’s our Howe, Richard, Orr/Shore, Gretzky etc.  Could do a lot worse. 

[Kevin Biestra]

10 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Sorry about Cooke...but apologies aside THN had him at 45 only three years ago - And he would be my brother in-law if my little sister had her way when she fell in love with the Canucks during the WCE era ... so I’m 100% understanding of Apollo or whomever brings him up.  Your about as level headed as anyone during this process so no slights intended.  If anything I’m just hoping to remind guys of older players I grew up with and then later fell in love with too.  Murzyn, Babych, Ronning, Diduck, Momesso practically the entire team meant the world to me - so if others felt the same about WCE, Sedin or pre-Smyl hey I absolutely get it.   These are our hero’s - think anyone who’s on this sites viewpoint is valid - Uber fans all of us - and said early this list will be better and mean more to me then whatever THN or others have made - and do think the balance between the dark and light couldn’t be perfect.  Dark pre Linden and light post Linden - and grey while he was here ha ha.  Linden is and will be the greatest Canuck ever IMO until we finally win a cup.  He’s our Howe, Richard, Orr/Shore, Gretzky etc.  Could do a lot worse. 

 

The THN list was good to see but it had a few wackadoo things going on.  I love Ohlund but ahead of Smyl for greatest Canuck?  McLean at 14?  Linden at 5?  It was kind of like the list was missing a heartbeat.

 

Anyway, I had Linden at #1 and the Sedins 2 and 3.  The playoffs are the fire from which greatness emerges.

 

I've watched three runs to the Cup final.  In two of them I was cheering for Rocky and in one of them it was like I was cheering for Drago.  In the first two they "won" by going the distance.  In the third one, they were comfortably ahead and got knocked out in the 15th round.

 

 

It was such a different feeling the third time.

 

Same thing with the WCE losing to Minnesota in round two after being up 3-1 in the series and up 2-0 in game 7, which was the furthest that team ever got.  The Canucks were Clubber Lang in the Rocky 3 rematch and the Minnesota Wild were Rocky, just waiting for the Canucks / Clubber to run out of steam.

 

 

Edited May 1, 2020 by Kevin Biestra

[Baratheon]

34 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

The THN list was good to see but it had a few wackadoo things going on.  I love Ohlund but ahead of Smyl for greatest Canuck?  McLean at 14?  Linden at 5?  It was kind of like the list was missing a heartbeat.

 

Anyway, I had Linden at #1 and the Sedins 2 and 3.  The playoffs are the fire from which greatness emerges.

 

I've watched three runs to the Cup final.  In two of them I was cheering for Rocky and in one of them it was like I was cheering for Drago.  In the first two they "won" by going the distance.  In the third one, they were comfortably ahead and got knocked out in the 15th round.

 

 

It was such a different feeling the third time.

 

Same thing with the WCE losing to Minnesota in round two after being up 3-1 in the series and up 2-0 in game 7, which was the furthest that team ever got.  The Canucks were Clubber Lang in the Rocky 3 rematch and the Minnesota Wild were Rocky, just waiting for the Canucks / Clubber to run out of steam.

 

 

I don't think anybody can even begin to argue against those points.  82' and 94' could both make for great movies.  I don't think I have ever seen my entire family collectively erupt like when Bure scored in Game 7 against Calgary.

 

That Minnesota series is just sad plain and simple.  At least with 2011 I can (and obviously have haha) put a ton of blame on the league.  Boston of course came at us SUPER hard as well.  2003 was different.  It was just a bizarre showing.  For whatever reason it doesn't even bother me all that much.  I sort of shrug that one off as the oddball series.  The series against Calgary in 2004 is actually more difficult for me to watch.  Seemed like it was meant to be when Matt Cooke scored that goal in Game 7.