kurtzfan Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 We would lose a draft pick if we make the playoffs. But the NHL is still working out the schedule. Everything seems uncertain. What 's your thoughts? Three main areas There are three key topics that the league focused on. First, points percentage as of the March 12 pause would determine the draft order. Second, the lottery would go back to the old system for this season only, meaning no lotteries for each of the top three selections — only one for the top pick with teams able to move up four places, at most. That would end up with the Red Wings, who have already clinched dead last, picking either No. 1 or No. 2 overall. The third area, which will be tricky, is dealing with conditional draft picks. The league said it would propose solutions and the teams involved would have a week to come up with an acceptable alternative for both sides or take the NHL’s idea. For example, the Sharks acquired a 2021 third-round pick as part of the Brenden Dillon trade. If the Capitals win the Stanley Cup this season that third-rounder will move to this year’s draft. It would be up to Doug Wilson and Brian MacLellan to work out a suitable resolution. The 2020 NHL Draft was originally scheduled to be held June 26-27 in Montreal, but those plans were postponed in late March. https://nhl.nbcsports.com/2020/05/04/nhl-makes-case-to-teams-for-early-june-draft/ ' The memo also addresses a critical concern for teams: their ability to make trades during the draft. Typically, teams use the draft to begin “resetting” their rosters ahead of free agency and other offseason activities. That includes making trades that help alleviate salary-cap problems. By holding the draft before the season is completed, teams would be unable to trade players from their rosters due to trade-deadline and playoff-eligibility restrictions. According to Daly, the NHL did an analysis of the past five seasons that indicated roughly one-half of the trades made at those drafts “would still have been permissible in the context of an ‘early Draft.'” The memo states that there were 106 draft-day trades conducted, and 64 of those deals still would have been able to happen had the draft been held before the completion of those seasons.' 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 I have an idea. Why don't they just hold the draft AFTER the playoffs, like they usually do? If there are no playoffs and the season is cancelled then they can hold the draft as soon as that decision has been made. 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khay Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 12 minutes ago, kurtzfan said: We would lose a draft pick if we make the playoffs. But the NHL is still working out the schedule. Everything seems uncertain. What 's your thoughts? Three main areas There are three key topics that the league focused on. First, points percentage as of the March 12 pause would determine the draft order. Second, the lottery would go back to the old system for this season only, meaning no lotteries for each of the top three selections — only one for the top pick with teams able to move up four places, at most. That would end up with the Red Wings, who have already clinched dead last, picking either No. 1 or No. 2 overall. The third area, which will be tricky, is dealing with conditional draft picks. The league said it would propose solutions and the teams involved would have a week to come up with an acceptable alternative for both sides or take the NHL’s idea. For example, the Sharks acquired a 2021 third-round pick as part of the Brenden Dillon trade. If the Capitals win the Stanley Cup this season that third-rounder will move to this year’s draft. It would be up to Doug Wilson and Brian MacLellan to work out a suitable resolution. The 2020 NHL Draft was originally scheduled to be held June 26-27 in Montreal, but those plans were postponed in late March. https://nhl.nbcsports.com/2020/05/04/nhl-makes-case-to-teams-for-early-june-draft/ ' The memo also addresses a critical concern for teams: their ability to make trades during the draft. Typically, teams use the draft to begin “resetting” their rosters ahead of free agency and other offseason activities. That includes making trades that help alleviate salary-cap problems. By holding the draft before the season is completed, teams would be unable to trade players from their rosters due to trade-deadline and playoff-eligibility restrictions. According to Daly, the NHL did an analysis of the past five seasons that indicated roughly one-half of the trades made at those drafts “would still have been permissible in the context of an ‘early Draft.'” The memo states that there were 106 draft-day trades conducted, and 64 of those deals still would have been able to happen had the draft been held before the completion of those seasons.' Why does Detroit come out of this as a winner? Why should there be an unfair advantage given to specific teams because of COVID but none to other teams in the middle? What is the benefit of doing this? Just one event for the fans. It doesn't change the fact that there is no hockey to be played. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squamfan Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 6 minutes ago, khay said: Why does Detroit come out of this as a winner? Why should there be an unfair advantage given to specific teams because of COVID but none to other teams in the middle? What is the benefit of doing this? Just one event for the fans. It doesn't change the fact that there is no hockey to be played. because it is a orignal six AMERICAN team 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 It is still a dumb idea, no one at the league has convinced the GMs never mind us fans of what benefit there is that over rides the downside of it. We don’t end up hurt, I am good with us losing a mid round pick because ai am not confident of our season next year. Almost everything went right this year to become a bubble team... if we can’t keep all our players or have a few things go wrong we could be looking at a top 10 pick easily again next year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Biestra Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 If everything to do with the season ended today, I think I'd take the normal system for the lottery based on winning percentage, and a pure even odds for all teams, and go halfway between the two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drummer4now Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 (edited) Here is the best idea... Cancel this season so that means no more regular season/playoffs for this year. Focus on next season. Base the upcoming draft rankings on the current standings, but increase the odds incrementally for each team for the first overall pick (except for those in the top 10). Edited May 5, 2020 by drummer4now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CR7 Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 11 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said: I have an idea. Why don't they just hold the draft AFTER the playoffs, like they usually do? If there are no playoffs and the season is cancelled then they can hold the draft as soon as that decision has been made. In a perfect world that would be how things work, right now it's not a perfect world. The NHL is trying to lock down a US TV deal for next season, if they can show the US market that they can get ratings right now (with the draft) they may have a little more leverage in the negotiation. These reruns of past playoffs are doing nothing to convince any network in the US that the NHL is a main stay sport. If the NHL gets half the viewers the NFL got during it's draft it would have to be considered a huge victory, this is why Bettman and Daly are pushing the draft to remain in June. NHL is still a business, they still need to fulfill business obligations regardless of current world circumstance. People are driven by money This is just my opinion based on my following of the situation, so take it with a grain of salt. I do think they should wait until the seasons finished as usual 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khay Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 (edited) If they do decide to host the draft in June, the only fair thing would be to determine the draft order in the similar way as was done for 2005 draft. They shouldn't propose a BS rule like the teams can only move up to 4 spots so as to favour Detroit and few other teams at the bottom of the standings. In 2005 draft, they weighed the odds for each team based on their playoff appearances in the past 3 seasons + # 1st overall picks in the last 4 seasons. Since the draft lottery rules have changed since 2005, it should be based on the number of playoff appearances in the past 3 seasons (or point percentage in the past 3 seasons + playoff success) + # of lotteries won (i.e., # of 1st, 2nd, and 3rd overall picks in the last 4 seasons). While at it, do the lottery for all 31 picks rather than the first 3 picks. Reveal the picks from 15 and up then, 16 and down. This way every team gets a chance to win the draft, which gives every fan a reason to be excited especially since there may not be any playoffs. As for all of the conditional picks that depends on the playoff success, they should be deferred until after the playoffs. If that's next season, then they should be deferred to next season. After seeing the draft lottery results, if both teams agree to complete the trade rather than defer, then the league or an arbitrator has to step in and mediate a fair deal between the teams. For example, let's say Canucks get to pick 20th overall and if they wanted to complete the transaction involving JT Miller by trading the pick to TB NJD, and if NJD agrees, then they can trade the pick. On the contrary, if the Canucks gets to pick in the top 5, then obviously they don't want to complete the transaction so they would defer trading the pick to 2021. Either way, this just makes for a lot of headache for a small benefit. Edited May 5, 2020 by khay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred65 Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 I believe the sticking point is, some teams have TV contracts which are demanding the remaining season games to be played. Maybe they'll sue if not. On the other hand the NHL has to rely on a force majeure rebuttal. Who know maybe the TV stations will demand compensation. It would be nice if Vcr could get the 1st round pick and the loose the pick in 2021. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 1 hour ago, Fred65 said: I believe the sticking point is, some teams have TV contracts which are demanding the remaining season games to be played. Maybe they'll sue if not. On the other hand the NHL has to rely on a force majeure rebuttal. Who know maybe the TV stations will demand compensation. It would be nice if Vcr could get the 1st round pick and the loose the pick in 2021. holding the draft solves two problems a little bit, it gives the tv guys some ad sales, but there's also an issue with holding the draft once college and international seasons resume in the fall, or maybe college doesn't or maybe some international leagues do and others don't etc. And how do you scout that? Right now everyone has had a similar opportunity to assess talent. I don't know that the pick is going to matter much whether its this year or next year, we're now probably talking about the difference between 18 and 23 or something along those lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 Definitely give up the first for 2020, if given the choice. Success in 2021 is far from guaranteed and our pick next year may well be a lottery pick. I really like this year’s draft, and I’d love to see if a guy like Dylan Holloway might slip to 18th (or wherever we’d be picking). But I’d rather have the cost certainty on the Miller trade, in giving up a mid-to-late first this year (which is a perfectly acceptable price for JT), than roll the dice on possibly sacrificing a lottery pick (and with Canucks luck, if we traded our 2021 first, we probably miss the playoffs, win the lottery, and end up giving up first overall). 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtzfan Posted May 13, 2020 Author Share Posted May 13, 2020 If there won't be any playoff, we are in the 9th place. We should get the first round draft pick! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 I have an idea - like the thread title suggests why don’t we talk about whom we should pick assuming the season is over and we are a lottery team. Who’s available in the 10-19 range that looks good? Do we draft a defenseman first or go for a forward who’s not going to take as long to develop? And if it’s a forward should we be considering a center (think so) or a winger? I’ve read so many times on this site that this is the draft of all drafts - suggesting that even second round picks are like regular drafts first rounders (I don’t believe that for a second but what if I’m wrong ha ha...I’m not). Pearson has done great work for us and Hoglander is coming and Podz is coming so I believe wingers are sorted even if we don’t sign TT. What we need is an eventual Horvat replacement at this point - even a Sutter or Beagle one too. Our defense pipeline is also weak or could be better - so would be cool with playing the medium to long game and nabbing whomever is available L or R side BPA (defenseman) too. Edler won’t play forever- Tanev might be done with us - and Rafferty, OJ, Rathbone, Woo..well you’d think two of those guys should work out but I’d say even odds none of them do. Thoughts? A lot of HHOF or just really really good and players have been picked in the middle of the first round ... who should we be targeting and why? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 On 5/5/2020 at 7:13 PM, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said: Definitely give up the first for 2020, if given the choice. Success in 2021 is far from guaranteed and our pick next year may well be a lottery pick. I really like this year’s draft, and I’d love to see if a guy like Dylan Holloway might slip to 18th (or wherever we’d be picking). But I’d rather have the cost certainty on the Miller trade, in giving up a mid-to-late first this year (which is a perfectly acceptable price for JT), than roll the dice on possibly sacrificing a lottery pick (and with Canucks luck, if we traded our 2021 first, we probably miss the playoffs, win the lottery, and end up giving up first overall). No. We won’t ever win the first overall it’s in our DNA. A lot would have to do wrong for that to happen and I personally thing that our team will continue its upward trend despite cap issues and whether or not we improve our roster. At some point the young guy have to start clicking in a bigger way. All three of BB, EP and QH have shined at certain times and they are all far from peaking. Miller’s best season is no coincidence. I also feel our vets are feeling the internal pressure and will be playing hard for their next contract or their Swan Song with a playoff run. We have an abundance and potential in the system both with older and younger players. Yes JB rolled the dice with JT Miller - it was shocking at the time - since then I’m 100% behind it and you can bet that 30 other soon to be 31 other GMs would be happy to give up a lottery pick every year to get those sort of immediate results even if they ended up losing out on a first overall. If it was only that easy to get a guy who puts up those points every year right away on an excellent point per dollar basis. JB or whomever is running this club can do that every single year going forward and we’d be a contender in short time forever. PPG plus guys with intangibles don’t grow on trees for 5.25 ... wish our entire top nine was loaded with them then we’d look like the 80’s Oilers and be sending 10 guys to this all-star game each year ha ha. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 17 minutes ago, IBatch said: No. We won’t ever win the first overall it’s in our DNA. A lot would have to do wrong for that to happen and I personally thing that our team will continue its upward trend despite cap issues and whether or not we improve our roster. At some point the young guy have to start clicking in a bigger way. All three of BB, EP and QH have shined at certain times and they are all far from peaking. Miller’s best season is no coincidence. I also feel our vets are feeling the internal pressure and will be playing hard for their next contract or their Swan Song with a playoff run. We have an abundance and potential in the system both with older and younger players. Yes JB rolled the dice with JT Miller - it was shocking at the time - since then I’m 100% behind it and you can bet that 30 other soon to be 31 other GMs would be happy to give up a lottery pick every year to get those sort of immediate results even if they ended up losing out on a first overall. If it was only that easy to get a guy who puts up those points every year right away on an excellent point per dollar basis. JB or whomever is running this club can do that every single year going forward and we’d be a contender in short time forever. PPG plus guys with intangibles don’t grow on trees for 5.25 ... wish our entire top nine was loaded with them then we’d look like the 80’s Oilers and be sending 10 guys to this all-star game each year ha ha. Nice post Ibatch.... So pleasing to read something positive. thank you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 If they go with the 24 team playoff format that the NHL is discussing there’s no way our 1st wouldn’t be up for negotiation. The parameters of that trade would be too altered to say “well we made the playoffs so you get the pick”. I think this one is going to take the league getting involved if the Canucks and Devils can’t agree on the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 35 minutes ago, DeNiro said: If they go with the 24 team playoff format that the NHL is discussing there’s no way our 1st wouldn’t be up for negotiation. The parameters of that trade would be too altered to say “well we made the playoffs so you get the pick”. I think this one is going to take the league getting involved if the Canucks and Devils can’t agree on the year. Absolutely. Really we or Canucks management shouldn’t be worrying about it too much - in the big scheme of things it’s a drop in the bucket compared to real time problems. I’ve resolved myself not to care either way. Miller is a keeper - we wouldn’t get that sort of impact without a franchise player who excelled as an 18 year old. Look at Podz for example. A lot of experts had him as the third best pick - we got him at 10 and won’t see him for two years and it’s very unlikely as a 20 year old he’d have the same impact is Miller this year. Maybe we only have him for four years - but that’s the equivalent of six for almost any player we could draft. And way better then most. Makar too two years ... we are still waiting on OJ and on JVs breakout season. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, IBatch said: Absolutely. Really we or Canucks management shouldn’t be worrying about it too much - in the big scheme of things it’s a drop in the bucket compared to real time problems. I’ve resolved myself not to care either way. Miller is a keeper - we wouldn’t get that sort of impact without a franchise player who excelled as an 18 year old. Look at Podz for example. A lot of experts had him as the third best pick - we got him at 10 and won’t see him for two years and it’s very unlikely as a 20 year old he’d have the same impact is Miller this year. Maybe we only have him for four years - but that’s the equivalent of six for almost any player we could draft. And way better then most. Makar too two years ... we are still waiting on OJ and on JVs breakout season. Well that pick may actually be very important to us. We are going to be in a very tight cap squeeze this summer and are going to need to unload some contracts. That first round pick could play a factor whether fans like it or not. If Eriksson refuses to retire we may need to pay to unload it. I hate it but if it means being able to re-sign key players like Markstrom, Tanev, Toffoli, and Virtanen, it may be necessary. Edited May 17, 2020 by DeNiro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred65 Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 2 hours ago, DeNiro said: Well that pick may actually be very important to us. We are going to be in a very tight cap squeeze this summer and are going to need to unload some contracts. That first round pick could play a factor whether fans like it or not. If Eriksson refuses to retire we may need to pay to unload it. I hate it but if it means being able to re-sign key players like Markstrom, Tanev, Toffoli, and Virtanen, it may be necessary. The Podkolzin draft pick was good in a number of ways. Drafted in 2019, he won't sign until 2021 and is on his ELC until 2024 which helps immensely with the Salary Cap. Regretfully our Cap is in a bad position signing players of limited consequence for big money and term. We should have been in a tanking position rather than looking for glory. However fortunately Vcr hit pay dirt with Pettersson and Hughes I'm sure way beyond their wildest dream. The sad part is after all this great drafting they now want to dismantle the scouting that brought prospect that were beyond their dreams. Some of this is hindsight but regretfully some was predictable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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