Capitals: Brendan Leipsic's Instagram messages are 'unacceptable and offensive'

[Monty]

15 minutes ago, Fateless said:

Why should it not be used against you. It is direct evidence of your true character. I'd go so far as to call it the best evidence of Leipsic's character.

 

I'm not sure if you're familiar with the story of the Ring of Gyges in Plato's "The Republic", but it is effectively the Ring of Power from Lord of the Rings which can turn  you invisible. The purpose of the tale in Plato's "The Republic" is to pose the question about what someone would do if they had the ability to become truly invisible - would they allow their appetites enslave them (aka, become a thief, rapist, etc.) or would they remain rationally in control of themselves. It is an important question because what someone does in private, when they believe no one is watching, gives us the clearest picture of who they really are. 

 

So when we are confronted with evidence of someone's true self when they believed they were "private" or "safe", why would we turn a blind eye and not judge that person? The truth is that Leipsic is a misogynistic degenerate. That is plain as day. As a 28 year old lawyer, I don't buy into this whole "he's 25 and still growing" excuse. That is a cop out designed to continually propagate the "boys will be boys" argument. Just because there may be some further development to be had does not give him a "get out of jail free card" as a 25 year old. Sure he may change his ways over time, but anyone can do that regardless of their age. The fact is that Leipsic is who he is right now - and he deserves to be judged for that. Why would an employer want someone that is an HR risk and who could stain their reputation? Its called natural consequences. I'm working on natural consequences with my three year old right now. It seems like some people were never taught about them.

First to the bolded. If it weren’t for Lord of the Rings, I wouldn’t have read The Republic. Nice pull!

 

That’s all fair. My question above wasn’t, “Should he receive a get out of jail free card?” My question is, should conversations you have with someone in private, that don’t cross legal lines, be made public?” If my wife says something back in 2007 that she now finds astonishing that she ever said (true event), should that be made public, and now she loses her job as a teacher over it? If not, what if she said that not 13 years ago when she was 25, but two months ago to a friend while a little tipsy? 
 

I respect your input. I did 2 things that were pretty bad back in 2002 (both while I was in university). Both times I didn’t wait for someone to come to me with it and just owned up to it immediately. In both instances, I said to them, “I accept whatever comes from this, as this is on me. Whether it is a severe punishment or whatever you choose, I have to learn from this.”

 

So I absolutely agree with what you said. And with a 3 year old myself, also definitely agree with what you said there. Just concerned with private conversations and the extent that someone can be punished for private, legal conversations.

 

Respect.

Edited May 8, 2020 by Monty

[Qwags]

2 hours ago, Monty said:

If it's nothing illegal, then how much should someone be punished? If someone says something in a group text about me, that's their business. Whether it's true/untrue/flattering/unflattering, that's none of my concern.

 

Doing things in privacy that are illegal (ie: illegal drugs, beating spouse, see other criminal activities), then absolutely they should get punished. But when my brother texts something to his now ex-wife that's neither flattering nor true about my wife, and it ended up getting back to us, her reaction was, "Well, that's Ben (not real name). What else is new?"

Just because it isn't illegal, doesn't mean it's free of consequence. 

[Monty]

3 minutes ago, Qwags said:

Just because it isn't illegal, doesn't mean it's free of consequence. 

Agreed. Welcome to the discussion.

[HerrDrFunk]

2 minutes ago, Monty said:

First to the bolded. If it weren’t for Lord of the Rings, I wouldn’t have read The Republic. Nice pull!

 

That’s all fair. My question above wasn’t, “Should he receive a get out of jail free card?” My question is, should conversations you have with someone in private, that don’t cross legal lines, be made public?” If my wife says something back in 2007 that she now finds astonishing that she ever said (true event), should that be made public, and now she loses her job as a teacher over it? If not, what if she said that not 13 years ago when she was 25, but two months ago to a friend while a little tipsy? 
 

I respect your input. I did 2 things that were pretty bad back in 2002 (both while I was in university). Both times I didn’t wait for someone to come to me with it and just owned up to it immediately. In both instances, I said to them, “I accept whatever comes from this, as this is on me. Whether it is a severe punishment or whatever you choose, I have to learn from this.”

 

So I absolutely agree with what you said. And with a 3 year old myself, also definitely agree with what you said there. Just concerned with private conversations and the extent that someone can be punished for private, legal conversations.

 

Respect.

The thing is, Leipsic isn't facing any legal repercussions what what he said in the chat; it's all his current employer choosing not to want to have him as an employee any longer. 

 

To relate it in more real world terms, if I rail against my boss and call him a stupid $&!#head in a private chat that somehow makes it's way back to him, should I be surprised if I no longer have a job afterwards? 

[Monty]

Just now, HerrDrFunk said:

The thing is, Leipsic isn't facing any legal repercussions what what he said in the chat; it's all his current employer choosing not to want to have him as an employee any longer. 

 

To relate it in more real world terms, if I rail against my boss and call him a stupid $&!#head in a private chat that somehow makes it's way back to him, should I be surprised if I no longer have a job afterwards? 

Thing is, bosses everywhere know their employees speak negatively about them. 

[Fateless]

1 minute ago, Monty said:

First to the bolded. If it weren’t for Lord of the Rings, I wouldn’t have read The Republic. Nice pull!

 

That’s all fair. My question above wasn’t, “Should he receive a get out of jail free card?” My question is, should conversations you have with someone in private, that don’t cross legal lines, be made public?” If my wife says something back in 2007 that she now finds astonishing that she ever said (true event), should that be made public, and now she loses her job as a teacher over it? If not, what if she said that not 13 years ago when she was 25, but two months ago to a friend while a little tipsy? 
 

I respect your input. I did 2 things that were pretty bad back in 2002 (both while I was in university). Both times I didn’t wait for someone to come to me with it and just owned up to it immediately. In both instances, I said to them, “I accept whatever comes from this is, as this is on me. Whether it is a severe punishment or whatever you choose, I have to learn from this.”

 

So I absolutely agree with what you said. And with a 3 year old myself, also definitely agree with what you said there. Just concerned with private conversations and the extent that someone can be punished for private, legal conversations.

 

Respect.

I'm sure there are things we've all said that we regret later in life. I used to game heavily as a teenager and I had some pretty bad rage fits. I'm pretty sure I said some horrible things. However, there's a few differences between what you're asking and what has occurred here. We're not talking about things said years ago for Leipsic. This is fresh. This is who Leipsic currently is. So we're not judging him for stupid comments/beliefs from when he was 15 like in your example. Had Leipsic said these types of things as 15 year old and immediately come out, apologized, discussed how he's changed, etc., then I would hope people could find it in their hearts to forgive and provide a second chance. That isn't the case here.

 

With regard to the alcohol question you've posed, I guess it depends on context. How much alcohol was consumed, on what occassion, and is it a regular occurrence? I do not have this issue because I do not drink. I don't judge others for drinking (to each their own), but I also don't believe drinking is a valid excuse or cover for inappropriate behaviour. If you're allowing yourself to get drunk and engage in reprehensible behaviour, then I do believe that you can be validly criticized/judged for allowing yourself to be put in that position where you lost control. 

 

The fact is that society has evolved, along with technology. It is naive to believe that what you say in text, email, messenger, etc. will never been seen by anyone else. I live my life as if I will one day run in politics. I'm mindful of what I say, even in private, because I always ask myself "how would I feel if this conversation was seen by everyone." And I get that not everyone wants to live like that, but people need to stop thinking they're free of consequences when they say things where they believe it is private. If I started texting anti-LGBTQ+ comments to my buddy and then ran for Prime Minister, I would certainly expect that conversation to be used against me. And it should be. How can I be a Prime Minister for all if I have a vendetta against the LGBTQ+ community? The answer is that I shouldn't be. And my so-called "friend" who outed that conversation and ruined my bid for the Prime Minister's office should be praised for whistleblowing rather than being considered a "rat". Again, it comes down to natural consequences.

[Toews]

4 minutes ago, HerrDrFunk said:

The thing is, Leipsic isn't facing any legal repercussions what what he said in the chat; it's all his current employer choosing not to want to have him as an employee any longer. 

 

To relate it in more real world terms, if I rail against my boss and call him a stupid $&!#head in a private chat that somehow makes it's way back to him, should I be surprised if I no longer have a job afterwards? 

Question, what if you are the one who is receiving this text and you didn't push back on it. I wonder how many these guys being released are getting scapegoated because of Leipsic's comments. Outraged mob calls for heads on spikes, organizations acquiesce because it's just sound business at that point. Due process goes out the window.

[HerrDrFunk]

1 minute ago, Monty said:

Thing is, bosses everywhere know their employees speak negatively about them. 

There's a heck of a difference between knowing your name comes out of your employee's lips in a negative way sometimes and having chat screenshots shown to you. I don't think there are many people out there who would just take that kind of behavior in stride. 

[J-23]

8 minutes ago, HerrDrFunk said:

The thing is, Leipsic isn't facing any legal repercussions what what he said in the chat; it's all his current employer choosing not to want to have him as an employee any longer. 

 

To relate it in more real world terms, if I rail against my boss and call him a stupid $&!#head in a private chat that somehow makes it's way back to him, should I be surprised if I no longer have a job afterwards? 

If this was Pettersson would you want him gone then?

[Monty]

3 minutes ago, Fateless said:

I'm sure there are things we've all said that we regret later in life. I used to game heavily as a teenager and I had some pretty bad rage fits. I'm pretty sure I said some horrible things. However, there's a few differences between what you're asking and what has occurred here. We're not talking about things said years ago for Leipsic. This is fresh. This is who Leipsic currently is. So we're not judging him for stupid comments/beliefs from when he was 15 like in your example. Had Leipsic said these types of things as 15 year old and immediately come out, apologized, discussed how he's changed, etc., then I would hope people could find it in their hearts to forgive and provide a second chance. That isn't the case here.

 

With regard to the alcohol question you've posed, I guess it depends on context. How much alcohol was consumed, on what occassion, and is it a regular occurrence? I do not have this issue because I do not drink. I don't judge others for drinking (to each their own), but I also don't believe drinking is a valid excuse or cover for inappropriate behaviour. If you're allowing yourself to get drunk and engage in reprehensible behaviour, then I do believe that you can be validly criticized/judged for allowing yourself to be put in that position where you lost control. 

 

The fact is that society has evolved, along with technology. It is naive to believe that what you say in text, email, messenger, etc. will never been seen by anyone else. I live my life as if I will one day run in politics. I'm mindful of what I say, even in private, because I always ask myself "how would I feel if this conversation was seen by everyone." And I get that not everyone wants to live like that, but people need to stop thinking they're free of consequences when they say things where they believe it is private. If I started texting anti-LGBTQ+ comments to my buddy and then ran for Prime Minister, I would certainly expect that conversation to be used against me. And it should be. How can I be a Prime Minister for all if I have a vendetta against the LGBTQ+ community? The answer is that I shouldn't be. And my so-called "friend" who outed that conversation and ruined my bid for the Prime Minister's office should be praised for whistleblowing rather than being considered a "rat". Again, it comes down to natural consequences.

Agreed. Nicely articulated.

 

Will correct that my example wasn’t my wife when she was 15. She was 25 at the time and now 38. Something was lost in translation, there.

 

Good luck with your 3 year old!

[SergioMomesso]

10 minutes ago, Monty said:

Thing is, bosses everywhere know their employees speak negatively about them. 

I can attest to that. No matter what good I do for my employees, I am an as**ole to a few of them because I want them to be at work on time. Actually I just want them to show up. Better late than never. But if I say anything to them, i am the jerk of the month.

[Fateless]

1 minute ago, Monty said:

Agreed. Nicely articulated.

 

Will correct that my example wasn’t my wife when she was 15. She was 25 at the time and now 38. Something was lost in translation, there.

 

Good luck with your 3 year old!

My bad, I must have misread the age thing somehow. Either way, I would hope that someone would be provided an opportunity to explain negative conduct from over a decade ago, seek forgiveness, and prove they've changed. Obviously we've already seen examples of this working and not working, often in the political fields. 

 

Cheers!

[HerrDrFunk]

3 minutes ago, J-23 said:

If this was Pettersson would you want him gone then?

From everything you've seen of him, do you honestly think Pettersson would say that Leipsic said? I'm not saying it's impossible but that would be one hell of a shock.

[HerrDrFunk]

7 minutes ago, Toews said:

Question, what if you are the one who is receiving this text and you didn't push back on it. I wonder how many these guys being released are getting scapegoated because of Leipsic's comments. Outraged mob calls for heads on spikes, organizations acquiesce because it's just sound business at that point. Due process goes out the window.

That would suck if you said nothing over the line and got punished for it by association. However, from what I saw, it doesn't look like there are any innocent bystanders there. 

[J-23]

Just now, HerrDrFunk said:

From everything you've seen of him, do you honestly think Pettersson would say that Leipsic said? I'm not saying it's impossible but that would be one hell of a shock.

Let’s just assume though Pettersson said that, or a star player said that, would you want them gone?

 

Yeah Leipsic comments are wrong and since they are public we can get on his ass for it. However, I don’t get why people are so shocked about them. All this shows me is that he is no different than everyone’s friendly neighbourhood asshole.

[Fateless]

6 minutes ago, J-23 said:

If this was Pettersson would you want him gone then?

This is a tough question. It would obviously hurt the Canucks, but I believe that having a star player, a relative leader on our team, who behaves and acts like that could do irreparable harm to the team and hockey in general. Imagine all the young kids who look up to Petey as a star who would then believe those types of comments/actions were acceptable. 

 

So my answer would be yes, I would want him gone. Or at least significantly reprimanded with a sizable suspension and mandatory counselling (I have no idea if this is enforceable in the CBA).

[Quantum]

13 minutes ago, J-23 said:

If this was Pettersson would you want him gone then?

I'm in the group that says yes, I'd want him gone if it were he who said these things. Everybody should be held to the same standards -- regardless of whether or not he's a star player or fringe player like Brendan Lepisic. 

 

These are people who willingly chose to be in a profession that's in the public eye. They are being held to a different standard. Pettersson is obviously way more mature than Leipisic is... and he's 5 years younger than Leipsic.

 

What Leipsic said not only about those women, but his teammates, current and former, is what led him to being fired. Can't have that kind of toxicity in the locker room. Sends a bad message to not only his teammates but to the fans of the team.

 

So many of these arguments are about privacy and "boys will be boys" and "we all have stuff we regret in our DM's", but I'm not seeing any of these people say "hey, how do those women feel after seeing there names get degraded like this?" "What kind of message does letting Leipsic off the hook send to female NHL fans -- young and old?" "Do his (now ex) teammates still want to work with him?"

 

Comments like those that Leipsic said have consequences.

And he's not sorry about what he said, he's sorry that they got out.

 

But to answer the question you posed, I'd hold EVERY NHL player to this standard. Star or not. I also believe most NHLers aren't like this, especially the stars who know how much is at stake. I honestly hope Leipsic is an outlier.

Edited May 8, 2020 by Quantum
spelling error

[Monty]

1 minute ago, Fateless said:

mandatory counselling (I have no idea if this is enforceable in the CBA).

This should be the first thing all organizations move towards.

[Tre Mac]

19 hours ago, Baer. said:

Bet you over half the leagues players has conversations going like this. They are all scrubbing their accounts right now cause privacy doesn't exist in the internet world.

I can't even think of a 1/3 of the Nucks roster that would be like this.  These guys off the top of my head I can say with 100% certainty they wouldn't be that vulgar:

 

Brock Boeser

Bo Horvat

Elias Pettersson

Alex Edler

Tanner Pearson

Quin Hughes

Tyler Myers

 

I mean that's almost 1/3 of the lineup right there with some prominent players. 

 

 

19 hours ago, Blue Jay 22 said:

Shame Leipsic’s career is now in limbo because of a private leaked conversation.

Did you see him play when he was here?  His career was a shame... 

 

Imagine in court of someone on video tape committing a crime but that evidence gets tossed due to a technicality - that person is still a PoS.  I'll hold out judgement until an apology is issued and his apology was about as bunk as you can get.  Perhaps if it was heartfelt and sincere he'd still have a contract.  

[BPA]

On ‎5‎/‎6‎/‎2020 at 10:03 PM, Standing_Tall#37 said:

That’s actually a very good point. That leads me to kind of an interesting point. What if somebody said something 10 years ago and they’ve grown as a person or they’ve become tolerant and grown with society and changed. Should they still be crucified for a text they sent maybe 10 years ago?  I’m a big believer in people becoming better as they age. 

There is a saying...

With age comes Wisdom.

 

There is truth in that.  When I was a young 20-ish old...I said and did things.  Reflecting back on it now as I have gotten older and with kids, man...I was an a-hole sometimes.  Never got in trouble with the law.  Never caused problems with anybody.  But still not the model citizen as I aspire to be and hope my children will be.  As I tell my kids.  Be better than me.