Naslund's Jersey Retirement

[Dr.BRR]

Hey Gents,

 

Bored on a Thursday night so I thought I would ask the CDC about an argument I had with my brother-in-law last week about Naslund and his jersey retirement.  He was trying to convince me that he was a 'ring of honour' guy but that he never should of have his jersey retired.  He was saying that he never did enough for the team, was only good because of his line mates, and had no playoff success.  I understand the play off success point of view, but correct me if I'm wrong, he had the most goal in Canucks history until Danny beat him.  Plus was on one of the most dynamic lines in hockey.  For me, Naslund was in his prime when I first started to really get into hockey so he meant so much to me as a fan, where as my brother in law grew up watching hockey in the 80's and 90's.  

 

Basically, just thought where you guys stood on a)should naslund be in the rafters, and b) what are your 'requirements' to get your number retired?

 

Thanks guys. Stay Healthy

[Kevin Biestra]

I'm fine with his jersey retirement, but there's a reason they hurried up and did it right quick before the Sedins passed him and he wasn't the career scoring leader anymore.

 

I have Linden, the Sedins and Smyl as unquestionable jersey retirements, and then Naslund and Bure are two guys where you can make a list of points on both sides of the pro/con ledger about whether they should be in the rafters or the ROH.

 

So...  As to question (A) - should he be in the rafters...  Kind of a hesitant yes.

 

As to (B) - what are my requirements?

 

I wouldn't have a hard checklist where any one thing automatically excludes you, or automatically gets you in.  But for skaters, it would be stuff like hopefully a Stanley Cup final run or better, not a firm requirement of being captain but it would help a lot, maybe >=700/800 games as a Canuck.  I would say these things are more important than winning any individual trophies.

 

If not a captain, some substantial display of leadership.  And then there is an intangible sort of "larger than life personality or legend" that could come into play for guys like Tiger Williams or Gino Odjick or Harold Snepsts, etc. and which would be a pretty rare thing.

 

As for goalies...to even begin talking about it, I would say a Cup Final run and >=5 years as a starter to even open a discussion.

 

 

Edited May 8, 2020 by Kevin Biestra

[Where's Wellwood]

I'm not saying Wellwood's jersey should be retired but it hurtme to see one of the Sweatt brothers wear number 42.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

/s

[Pears]

I think something we can all agree on is the Sedins will be the last jersey retirements we have for a very long time. And if we’re being completely honest (I’m saying this with Nazzy being my favourite player growing up), the only players who should be in the rafters are the Sedins, Linden and Bure. 

[Kevin Biestra]

1 minute ago, Where's Wellwood said:

I'm not saying Wellwood's jersey should be retired but it hurtme to see one of the Sweatt brothers wear number 42.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

/s

 

Hey have you heard that new song by the Sweatt Brothers?

 

 

[-AJ-]

Naslund definitely had a different legacy than Smyl and Linden, but he was also the most skilled player of the three first ones to get jersey retirement. 48 goals in the dead puck era is no joke. Naslund scored 40+ goals three times one of the lowest scoring eras of the last 60 years. Since Naslund we've had only two players score 40 goals and both only did it once. I think his achievements get overlooked due to a lack of playoff success, which to a degree is fair, but I don't think he gets a fair shake by some who seem to gloss over how dominant he was. I'd agree with the decision to retire his number.

[-AJ-]

25 minutes ago, Where's Wellwood said:

I'm not saying Wellwood's jersey should be retired but it hurtme to see one of the Sweatt brothers wear number 42.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

/s

Sweatt brothers or Messier? Take your pick.

[King Heffy]

It didn't feel right to do it before Bure.  Now that Bure's in, no problem on my end although I probably would have given him ROH if it was my call.

Edited May 8, 2020 by King Heffy

[Lancaster]

Naslund may not have much playoff success....  but he played in an era with no salary cap and an owner that wasn't really keen on throwing out money like others in the league. 

 

The Western conference was dominated by the "Big 4".... Colorado, Detroit, Dallas and St. Louis.  Their rosters were way way better than whatever the Canucks could throw out.  

[IBatch]

2 hours ago, Lancaster said:

Naslund may not have much playoff success....  but he played in an era with no salary cap and an owner that wasn't really keen on throwing out money like others in the league. 

 

The Western conference was dominated by the "Big 4".... Colorado, Detroit, Dallas and St. Louis.  Their rosters were way way better than whatever the Canucks could throw out.  

True (those four teams) but Detroit’s salary for their first two cups was middle of the row (don’t know about the others) which is a little surprising giver their roster in 97 and 98.   That said it bloated to unreal proportions peaking in 2002 - they had six forwards that any team would be happy to throw out on their number one power play ..   

 

For me what separates Naslund from almost any other player we’ve had was that he was the most dominant athlete by position in this league for three consecutive years - and the only other player not named Sedin that won a Lindsay/Pearson award....three consecutive first line  all-star awards isn’t any small thing.   Something  Bure didn’t even manage (think he did have 3 second ones though and  in all fairness R wings (Jagr, Mogilny, Selanne etc) usually match up better then L wings historically).  Hart  votes and a photo finish with Forsberg for his only Art Ross also count.   Not sure how he would fair with the Sedins best seasons points adjusted - but think it would be pretty close for sure.   He wasn’t my favourite  C - but as a player his skills were undeniable and for a short time there was hope again in Vancouver that something special could happen.   Given the lack of that over our history I don’t have any issue with his number retired. 

[Lazurus]

Well it is something to post about so;

 

Why not Thomas Gradin? He actually had better numbers than Nasland on average, 550 pts in 613 games, .879 pts/gm. Nasland = 756 in 884 games. .860 pts/gm

And it was a much harder game back then. I remember seeing a highlight of him breaking away and Dailey hooking him around the neck with his stick with no penalty in a playoff game.

Edited May 8, 2020 by Lazurus

[189lb enforcers?]

Low expectation culture of a losing franchise resulted in raising that sweater. 
How many 80+ point seasons did that gravy eating, one dimensional player get while sniping through the legs of an interference-running Bertuzzi anyways? 
 

3?

 

Quite the bar. 

[Diamonds]

Naslund's accomplishments at the time of his retirement:

 

-1st in Canucks All-Time Goals

-1st in Canucks All-Time Points

-3rd in Canucks All-Time Assists (5 assists away from 1st)

-Longest Serving Captain in Canucks History 

-Only player in Canucks history to be awarded an MVP trophy (Ted Lindsey)

-3 consecutive NHL First All-Star Team nods as the top left wing in the game (still the only Canuck with 3)

 

He also had a great reputation for his non-flashy work in the community. The Sedins have numerous times singled him out as one of of the people who taught them what giving back to and being a leader in the community means (obviously they've also mentioned Linden numeroustimes as well).

 

If those accomplishments don't get your number retired then I honestly don't think any Canucks numbers should be retired (maybe barring the Sedins). If people are upset he didn't finish his career here, well it wasn't his fault. He wanted to re-sign with the Canucks but management (brand new Mike Gillis) wouldn't even sit with him to discuss an extension so he had to look elsewhere. 

[HKSR]

The problem isn't Nazzy.  The problem is the bar was set really low with Stan Smyl.  Yes he was a heart and soul type player, but other than Vancouver, what other team ever mentions Smyl anymore when referring to the Canucks? 

 

When people in the industry talk about the Canucks, it is always Linden, Bure, and the Sedins.  Those 4 stand out above all the rest. 

[Kevin Biestra]

1 hour ago, HKSR said:

The problem isn't Nazzy.  The problem is the bar was set really low with Stan Smyl.  Yes he was a heart and soul type player, but other than Vancouver, what other team ever mentions Smyl anymore when referring to the Canucks? 

 

When people in the industry talk about the Canucks, it is always Linden, Bure, and the Sedins.  Those 4 stand out above all the rest. 

 

Smyl stands out as substantially above Bure when it comes to whether anyone should ever wear his number again on a Canucks jersey.

 

 

Edited May 8, 2020 by Kevin Biestra

[HKSR]

12 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

Smyl stands out as substantially above Bure when it comes to whether anyone should ever wear his number again on a Canucks jersey,

Agree to disagree.  Smyl should have been acknowledged, but retiring his jersey is the reason the bar has been set so low for all future jersey retirements.  What other team has a player's jersey number retired where the player played through one of the highest scoring eras of the NHL and ended up with a 0.75ppg (673 pts in 896 games)? 

[Kevin Biestra]

28 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Agree to disagree.  Smyl should have been acknowledged, but retiring his jersey is the reason the bar has been set so low for all future jersey retirements.  What other team has a player's jersey number retired where the player played through one of the highest scoring eras of the NHL and ended up with a 0.75ppg (673 pts in 896 games)? 

 

Wendel Clark - TOR (Original 6)

Bob Nystrom - NYI

Butch Goring

Terry O'Reilly - BOS (Original 6)

Bill Goldsworthy - MIN/DAL

Adam Graves - NYR (Original 6)

Dale Hunter - WAS

 

 

If you open it up to other eras...

 

Shane Doan

Vic Hadfield

Jere Lehtinen

etc.

 

I stuck to forwards and didn't even list any defensemen, including low-scoring ones such as Ken Daneyko, Keith Magnuson, Chris Phillips...

 

Brian Sutter is retired in St. Louis and has similar numbers to Smyl with no run to the finals.

Edited May 8, 2020 by Kevin Biestra

[Dr.BRR]

1 hour ago, Diamonds said:

Naslund's accomplishments at the time of his retirement:

 

-1st in Canucks All-Time Goals

-1st in Canucks All-Time Points

-3rd in Canucks All-Time Assists (5 assists away from 1st)

-Longest Serving Captain in Canucks History 

-Only player in Canucks history to be awarded an MVP trophy (Ted Lindsey)

-3 consecutive NHL First All-Star Team nods as the top left wing in the game (still the only Canuck with 3)

 

He also had a great reputation for his non-flashy work in the community. The Sedins have numerous times singled him out as one of of the people who taught them what giving back to and being a leader in the community means (obviously they've also mentioned Linden numeroustimes as well).

 

If those accomplishments don't get your number retired then I honestly don't think any Canucks numbers should be retired (maybe barring the Sedins). If people are upset he didn't finish his career here, well it wasn't his fault. He wanted to re-sign with the Canucks but management (brand new Mike Gillis) wouldn't even sit with him to discuss an extension so he had to look elsewhere. 

These were all my points when I was discussing it the other night. I get his playoff success was minimal, but if you have these stats beside your name how are you not going to be retired.  he said they were ROH worthy but not rafters.  Anybody else know if the ROH is just a Canuck thing or do a few teams have it now.

 

He was saying Tanti deserves the rafters before Nassy, but like I said early that goes back to when he grew up watching hockey and Tanti meant more to him than Nassy.

[IBatch]

52 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Agree to disagree.  Smyl should have been acknowledged, but retiring his jersey is the reason the bar has been set so low for all future jersey retirements.  What other team has a player's jersey number retired where the player played through one of the highest scoring eras of the NHL and ended up with a 0.75ppg (673 pts in 896 games

Are you seriously doing this?  Smyl was a respected leader around the league and any team would have loved to have him.  I can think of several  (players from his era ) actually.   Can you? 

Edited May 8, 2020 by IBatch

[IBatch]

34 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Wendel Clark - TOR (Original 6)

Bob Nystrom - NYI

Butch Goring

Terry O'Reilly - BOS (Original 6)

Bill Goldsworthy - MIN/DAL

Adam Graves - NYR (Original 6)

Dale Hunter - WAS

 

 

If you open it up to other eras...

 

Shane Doan

Vic Hadfield

Jere Lehtinen

etc.

 

I stuck to forwards and didn't even list any defensemen, including low-scoring ones such as Ken Daneyko, Keith Magnuson, Chris Phillips...

 

Brian Sutter is retired in St. Louis and has similar numbers to Smyl with no run to the finals.

Don’t forget Bob Gainey.  You know with his 40ish points per year and all. 

Edited May 8, 2020 by IBatch