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canuktravella

Proposal revamp dcorp win cup

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if nhl gives teams a compliance buyout  should canucks wheel and deal a bunch of vets buyout eriksson  id trade sutter 1/2 cap retained, trade benn,  trade roussel, trade tanev rights, trade stecher, let fantanberg walk. Frees 19.8 mill in cap  id offer  alex pietriangelo  a  1yrs 11 mill  sign toffoli 5.5 for 3 yrs  sign markstrom 6 for 4 yrs   tryamkin 3 yrs 2.5 mill per  gaudette 2 yrs 2.5 mill   virtanen  3 yrs 3.5 mill macewen  900k per for 2 yrs 

 

miller petey boeser

pearson bo toffoli

hoglander gaudette virtanen  fast skilled 3rd line 

motte beagle macewen  meat potatoe line 

 

hughes pietroangelo offense unlimited 

edler tryamkin   monster shutdown pair 

juolevi myers (tyler  helps mentor youth)

rafferty brisbois

 

markstrom

demko

 

get rid of our underperforming vets   add a right hand dman who puts up 50 points maybe hoglander  makes show next yr  cant hurt having another elc   try win it all next yr   still have money to sign hughes and petey  the  following yr plus podzolkin  comes in on elc in 21-22 and we lose one good player to seattle so we will have a cup win and lose mimimal for the following yr 

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Thank You,for telling the truth about this defense,

too many fire drills and too many guys without the skills to get the job done.Sorry hard facts but sometimes the truth hurts.

You can be a non hitting non protecting your goalie type of defense man, but the NHL is not your league.

We have some real talent up front now and need smart defense men to dish the puck at the right times to our forwards, not just bang it down the ice for the opposition to get and mount a charge right back at us while you are slowly changing.

Bring up some guys from the ahl just to see what we have and adjust accordingly,because I hate mentioning names(but fans know who I mean) and feel we could go places with an upgrade to our biggest weakness,our defense.

Let's put it this way,a rookie shouldn't be carrying alot of your back-ends offense, but here we are.

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31 minutes ago, DADDYROCK said:

Thank You,for telling the truth about this defense,

too many fire drills and too many guys without the skills to get the job done.Sorry hard facts but sometimes the truth hurts.

You can be a non hitting non protecting your goalie type of defense man, but the NHL is not your league.

We have some real talent up front now and need smart defense men to dish the puck at the right times to our forwards, not just bang it down the ice for the opposition to get and mount a charge right back at us while you are slowly changing.

Bring up some guys from the ahl just to see what we have and adjust accordingly,because I hate mentioning names(but fans know who I mean) and feel we could go places with an upgrade to our biggest weakness,our defense.

Let's put it this way,a rookie shouldn't be carrying alot of your back-ends offense, but here we are.

fully agree but hughes is unreal we need  tryamkin to be a physical beast for us  he has potential to ge abetter willie  mitchell with more offense and bigger size no complaints there.    petriangelo would help us win cup  even  if its one yr  massive sundin money it be worth risk 

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Posted (edited)
49 minutes ago, DADDYROCK said:

Let's put it this way,a rookie shouldn't be carrying alot of your back-ends offense, but here we are.

Hughes would be carrying the majority of the defense's offense on probably 20 or more teams in the league - so I'm not sure that's a great example.  Not saying we don't need to see some improvement in places though. 

 

Realistically, I see a CBO of someone (take your pick where it'll benefit most) and the hopeful re-signing of Tanev and Marky.  Give Tofolli an opportunity to be part of something he previously experienced in LA, but he has to be reasonable on $/term or it simply won't work here - we are in no position to give him the kind of money like LE got when he signed as a UFA regardless of whether he could get it elsewhere or not.  Other than that, we give Rafferty/OJ legitimate opportunities next season and go from there and see where we are with Train when things resume.  I don't see 'scorched earth' approaches happening on this team anytime soon.  Oh, and I wish people (not you) would stop trying to justify ways that trading Brock would be a great thing for this club.  Unless JB receives an overpayment the likes of which he cannot refuse - keep the kid here. 

Edited by Fanuck
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Seems we've been revamping our D since 2011. The core then was Edler, Tanev, and Juice. Hammer added shortly before and Salo was a West Coast Express era leftover. Not a bad D-core at the time. Salo flew the coop, next Juice, then Hammer.  

 

All along, the organization has been searching for additions to Edler and Tanev via free agency, (Garrison, Sbisa, Pouliot, Del Zotto, Bartowski.) or trade, (Clendening, Guddy, ) and prospects, (Hutton, Corrado, ) I'm pretty sure i'm missing some notable names, but you get the gist.

 

And they're still at it! However, after saying all that, I agree a revamping of our D-core is definitely required. I'm okay with Edler, Tanev, Hughes and Myers. The others can go, or keep them for depth. But then there's the cap/money issue isn't there. Which obviously is where a prospect comes in. Who would that be though. 

 

Many in here think Tree is the man. But can he step in to the big team that easily. And I'm aware of Raf, OJ being talked about. I think Woo and Malone will be a few years.

 

Regarding, "The others can go," guys.......Time to get an impact player. AP, as mentioned earlier, though pricey, would make alotta' sense. In fact any player of his ilk will cost mucho dinero. I'm even okay with a hated one, Keith, Doughty, or ??!?!?!?? Not Chara though. Too old. And good luck getting the Hedmans and Ekblads of the world.

 

I'm sure JB and the crew have this in mind. They, just as we, are waiting for COVID-19's affect to wear off....

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First off, if Benning could find a way to sell off all those vets and get Pietrangelo and Toffoli and Markstrom, I'd want to both give him the keys to the city and burn him at the stake for probably practicing some magic or blackmail. 

Some of those are duds (e.g. Beagle/ Ferland/ Roussel/ Sutter as 3rd/ 4th liners) and there's not more money to go around esp. with the economy now, and I'd love for these to happen but agreed that it might be addition by subtraction (trimming the likes of Stecher or Tanev and replacing with internal guys -- and hopefully bundling off Demko and or Juolevi with some of the duds could help shed some dead weight cap, but tough to see it getting to the potent lineup that we probably all want.

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I appreciate OP's sentiments and it's hard to disagree but I don't see any get out of jail free cards.  I think that the cap remains flat and that they pro-rate each players salary based on games played by the team.  It's fair and there wouldn't be any crazy issues with teams making the cap.  My point being is that I don't see any compliance buyouts anywhere in my crystal ball.

 

Pietrangelo would be great but does the 30 year old UFA sign anywhere for 1 year?  I expect he wants at least a 5 year term for a lot of money and a shot at the cup.  He has been a consistent 40-55 point D for 10 years (2 below 40, 1 was the 48 game season).....does he get $8-9M AAV?  At any rate, Pettersson and Hughes are going to be the backbone of the team moving forward and they need to get paid in a year so I get the logic of landing the big fish for only 1 year.  

 

The cap is going to be a big deal for the Canucks over the next few years and this is why Benning has made Chris Gear AGM and one of his main support staff.  Keeping the drafted core is job 1 at this point.  The OP has also made clear the need for the Canucks to shed salary.

 

  • Eriksson - there may be a chance that he's traded after paying his $3M bonus this July by a team who needs cap at a low salary but I'm not sure who?  The following year, he is a buyout candidate as his bonus is only $1M and salary $3M
  • Sutter - you would think that he would be a useful player for either a contender who needs a PK specialist (and has cap room) or a rebuilding team who needs a player with lots of character to help a young team and to take defensive match ups.  I can't help but think that he has been shopped for some time though.
  • Roussel I like on this team.  I'm hoping for a bounce back season after a serious injury.  I'm not wild about the $3M AAV but can tolerate it if he plays like he did in his first year in Van.
  • Benn, Stecher and Fantenberg can disappear although Fanta may agree to a bargain contract and be great for depth.
  • Tanev?  Ya, Tanev!  If he goes, we need a bona fide top 4 RHD to replace him and that player is coming from outside the organization.  Better the devil you know I say.  I don't see a better alternative unless we can coax a guy like Pietrangelo but it's going to cost more $

Ok, I've gone on for a while longer than I wanted to but I do agree, something important is going to happen to this D.  Could just the addition of Tryamkin make the difference?  Maybe.

 

Hughes Tanev

Edler Tryamkin

Fantenberg Myers

Juolevi Rafferty

 

 

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5 hours ago, canuktravella said:

fully agree but hughes is unreal we need  tryamkin to be a physical beast for us  he has potential to ge abetter willie  mitchell with more offense and bigger size no complaints there.    petriangelo would help us win cup  even  if its one yr  massive sundin money it be worth risk 

 

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7 hours ago, canuktravella said:

if nhl gives teams a compliance buyout  should canucks wheel and deal a bunch of vets buyout eriksson  id trade sutter 1/2 cap retained, trade benn,  trade roussel, trade tanev rights, trade stecher, let fantanberg walk. Frees 19.8 mill in cap  id offer  alex pietriangelo  a  1yrs 11 mill  sign toffoli 5.5 for 3 yrs  sign markstrom 6 for 4 yrs   tryamkin 3 yrs 2.5 mill per  gaudette 2 yrs 2.5 mill   virtanen  3 yrs 3.5 mill macewen  900k per for 2 yrs 

 

miller petey boeser

pearson bo toffoli

hoglander gaudette virtanen  fast skilled 3rd line 

motte beagle macewen  meat potatoe line 

 

hughes pietroangelo offense unlimited 

edler tryamkin   monster shutdown pair 

juolevi myers (tyler  helps mentor youth)

rafferty brisbois

 

markstrom

demko

 

get rid of our underperforming vets   add a right hand dman who puts up 50 points maybe hoglander  makes show next yr  cant hurt having another elc   try win it all next yr   still have money to sign hughes and petey  the  following yr plus podzolkin  comes in on elc in 21-22 and we lose one good player to seattle so we will have a cup win and lose mimimal for the following yr 

Even with moving out all of those expensive vets, and with no 13th forward, and assuming Ferland is on LTIR, the money still doesn't add up.

This roster with your assumed salaries comes to $82.3m (including all Baer, Luongo & Spooner expenses) plus on top of that we are likely to have to pay for performance overages from 2019/20 somewhere in the vicinity of $3.0-4.7m next season. I can't see the cap limit rising to $87m in the wake of the corona virus, so this is just not even possible.

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, BigTramFan said:

Even with moving out all of those expensive vets, and with no 13th forward, and assuming Ferland is on LTIR, the money still doesn't add up.

This roster with your assumed salaries comes to $82.3m (including all Baer, Luongo & Spooner expenses) plus on top of that we are likely to have to pay for performance overages from 2019/20 somewhere in the vicinity of $3.0-4.7m next season. I can't see the cap limit rising to $87m in the wake of the corona virus, so this is just not even possible.

 

fergot about baer luongo and spooner hits  wow we waste alot of money on  vets that under perform 

 

luongo 3 (bs recapture fine we should sue nhl for this)

baertchi 3.66

spooner 1 

eriksson 6 

sutter  4.75

roussel 3

beagle 3

tanev 4.5

ferland 3.5

stecher 2.3

benn 2

fantenberg .750

combined points 105 in 69 games  37.5 mill in cap 

 

our youth destroys our vets in offense 8 of them our top point getters 

miller 

horvat 

petey 

boeser 

virtanen

hughes

pearson

toffoli

gaudette 

macewen 

combined points 419 in 69 games  29 mill cap hit 

thats insane 

Edited by canuktravella
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Perhaps we need to target a mid range Dman if we are letting Tanev walk. Lets say Dillon. He's UFA and has been on $3.27m per year. He's 29 so possibly we can get him for $3.75m for 4 years. 6'4", 225 lbs, suitable as a 2LD and has some starch to his game.

 

Maybe we move Hughes to 1RD and have D corps something like:

 

Edler Hughes

Dillon (3.75) Myers

Tryamkin (2.5m) Rafferty (0.7)

Juolevi (0.9)

 

This allows us to resign Marky and Toffoli. Buy out Eriksson, Trade Roussel. The roster could be:

 

Miller Petey Boeser

Pearson Horvat Toffoli

Hoglander Gaudette Virtanen

Motte Beagle MacEwen

Sutter

 

Edler Hughes

Dillon Myers

Tryamkin Rafferty

Juolevi

 

Markstrom

Demko

 

Assuming Ferland is on LTIR, including all other expenses roster comes to $77.3m, leaves some space for performance overages.

 

Not sure its a Cup winner tho! Haha...

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9 hours ago, Crabcakes said:

I appreciate OP's sentiments and it's hard to disagree but I don't see any get out of jail free cards.  I think that the cap remains flat and that they pro-rate each players salary based on games played by the team.  It's fair and there wouldn't be any crazy issues with teams making the cap.  My point being is that I don't see any compliance buyouts anywhere in my crystal ball.

 

Pietrangelo would be great but does the 30 year old UFA sign anywhere for 1 year?  I expect he wants at least a 5 year term for a lot of money and a shot at the cup.  He has been a consistent 40-55 point D for 10 years (2 below 40, 1 was the 48 game season).....does he get $8-9M AAV?  At any rate, Pettersson and Hughes are going to be the backbone of the team moving forward and they need to get paid in a year so I get the logic of landing the big fish for only 1 year.  

 

The cap is going to be a big deal for the Canucks over the next few years and this is why Benning has made Chris Gear AGM and one of his main support staff.  Keeping the drafted core is job 1 at this point.  The OP has also made clear the need for the Canucks to shed salary.

 

  • Eriksson - there may be a chance that he's traded after paying his $3M bonus this July by a team who needs cap at a low salary but I'm not sure who?  The following year, he is a buyout candidate as his bonus is only $1M and salary $3M
  • Sutter - you would think that he would be a useful player for either a contender who needs a PK specialist (and has cap room) or a rebuilding team who needs a player with lots of character to help a young team and to take defensive match ups.  I can't help but think that he has been shopped for some time though.
  • Roussel I like on this team.  I'm hoping for a bounce back season after a serious injury.  I'm not wild about the $3M AAV but can tolerate it if he plays like he did in his first year in Van.
  • Benn, Stecher and Fantenberg can disappear although Fanta may agree to a bargain contract and be great for depth.
  • Tanev?  Ya, Tanev!  If he goes, we need a bona fide top 4 RHD to replace him and that player is coming from outside the organization.  Better the devil you know I say.  I don't see a better alternative unless we can coax a guy like Pietrangelo but it's going to cost more $

Ok, I've gone on for a while longer than I wanted to but I do agree, something important is going to happen to this D.  Could just the addition of Tryamkin make the difference?  Maybe.

 

Hughes Tanev

Edler Tryamkin

Fantenberg Myers

Juolevi Rafferty

 

 

Im expecting Tanev to be snapped by another team with a bit of cap space, we wont have enough room for Tanev or Stecher unless they take pay cuts and if Tryamkin is still coming well theres no room for them all. In this climate i cant see anyone being interested in Suttor Roussel Beagle etc im thinking we stuck with them and im so annoyed at Benning signing Ferland when Baertchi has similar history of concussion, a slow learner Benning is at the contract table. Hoping league will at least have one compliance buyout and who knows that could be.

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Pietriangelo? Yes.  For just one year? Nope!!!! Too early. Until such time that we're SC contenders, rental players of this ilk and cost are off the table. Now as to going after a mid range defensman? Makes alotta' sense to me. Let's do it. Uhmmmmm.........errrr...........Where do we start??!????

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11 hours ago, canuktravella said:

luongo 3 (bs recapture fine we should sue nhl for this)

Why sue? They would just lose their money.

The owner of the Canucks agreed to the recapture penalty being put into the CBA;  doesn't leave much room to now complain in court.

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23 hours ago, canuktravella said:

if nhl gives teams a compliance buyout  should canucks wheel and deal a bunch of vets buyout eriksson  id trade sutter 1/2 cap retained, trade benn,  trade roussel, trade tanev rights, trade stecher, let fantanberg walk. Frees 19.8 mill in cap  id offer  alex pietriangelo  a  1yrs 11 mill  sign toffoli 5.5 for 3 yrs  sign markstrom 6 for 4 yrs   tryamkin 3 yrs 2.5 mill per  gaudette 2 yrs 2.5 mill   virtanen  3 yrs 3.5 mill macewen  900k per for 2 yrs 

 

miller petey boeser

pearson bo toffoli

hoglander gaudette virtanen  fast skilled 3rd line 

motte beagle macewen  meat potatoe line 

 

hughes pietroangelo offense unlimited 

edler tryamkin   monster shutdown pair 

juolevi myers (tyler  helps mentor youth)

rafferty brisbois

 

markstrom

demko

 

get rid of our underperforming vets   add a right hand dman who puts up 50 points maybe hoglander  makes show next yr  cant hurt having another elc   try win it all next yr   still have money to sign hughes and petey  the  following yr plus podzolkin  comes in on elc in 21-22 and we lose one good player to seattle so we will have a cup win and lose mimimal for the following yr 

Too bad there aren’t any HHOF caliber guys that we could pull a MG and pay 15 million for one season before they retire - and go for it.  And then have to listen to how QH or EP or BB learned so much in 40ish games and it was a paramount pivotal point in their career etc.  Maybe they can entice Jagr out of retirement (Sundin tells the twins to play the same way in the regular season as the playoffs and he’s Buddha or something - and really did it work?). 

 

Anyhow - in all seriousness AP is probably staying where he is and won’t sign for under 7 years no matter where he ends up.  Why would he risk having a mediocre or so so year for an extra couple million at this point instead of a gauranteed contract?  Sure would be nice to pick him up for the long term - our top pairing would be one of the better ones for 5 years or so at least.  LE needs to retire or be stuck in the minors ala Ladd, Redden until he does just that.   Maybe we get a compliance buy-out, maybe we don’t.  OJ needs to win his spot and so far he hasn’t been able to make that work.   He will for sure get some chances but I wouldn’t pencil him into our lineup as a permanent guy yet.   
 

I do love the idea of shedding payroll / and winning the AP sweepstakes- but it will have to be a huge offer and not sure we can do that.   Nobody wants Bear or Sutter - we can go our separate ways with Tanev which I think is probably the best option - even at 5 million pro-rate that to average games played - minus the average games played by top four guys in general and his cost goes way up.  Need another defender 20/40 games a year when he’s out.  Same thing happened when Salo was here and it gets tiresome. 

 

Think you’re on the right track and sure JB feels the same - he wants to win now and in the future.  All we have to do is endure the remainder of the rebuild placeholders...each year more will be done and really we don’t have that many better options internally so a high profile UFA would be a big boost.   Who though?  It’s a gamble ... unless they are top tier a lot can go wrong (See LE, Okposo, Lucic, Ryan, Ladd, Backes, Neal etc). and looks like last years top guys  Skinner and Duchene aren’t off to a hot start either.  Might be ok with going with TO’s experiment on the blue line this year - his stock is low and Barrie is proven and might get a good deal for him.  AP is going to get a massive, massive pay day.  Think in the 70 plus million area. 

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35 minutes ago, captaincowbasher said:
  • Hughes    -     Dumba
  • Edler        -     Tanev
  • OJ            -     Myers

Dumba brought in for Stecher, 2021 1st

Why would Minnesota do that? 

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